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    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    aah986 said:
    Quote:
    Danny G said:
    Quote:
    aah986 said:
    Quote:
    CityRacer said:
    Quote:
    mish said:
    RC, out of curiosity why do you give a damn about what people say? I don't get the paranoia....removing badges, hoping no one notices....it's a shambles.



    Not caring is not always a wise move. Why attract unnecessary attention? Would you show off an exotic ride in a tough neighborhood because you don't care what people think?

    I personally don't like the attention either. I bought the car because I enjoy driving the car, and I don't need to become a conversation piece. Therefore, I do the same thing -- my clients only sees me in my Honda.


    In my line of business, if I go to work in a honda I will have no work at all. I make sure all my patients see the car parked outside so it does its job as symbol of success which is important in my field and to bring more business .



    Cosmetic Surgeon?


    close, Plastic surgeon



    problem solved;

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    The kids' faces have also been airbrushed .

    Congrats on the new car, RC!



    Rc's little kids are growing up in the leathered lap of luxury. A lot of nice memories for them getting carted around in all these nice rides!

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    In Germany, things are a little bit different I'm afraid.
    My wife is a doctor and she drives a Boxster S and she still has "problems" with patients who tell her in her face that doctors earn too much, bla bla bla. The fact is: in Germany, doctors currently earn a ridiculous amount of money for the work they're doing, so most people who say this just don't have a clue.

    In my job, things are even worse since I have a business which relies on customer faith and trust but even more on sympathy since businesses like mine can be found at almost every corner over here. If my customers think that I earn too much, they carry their business somewhere else, that simple. This is a german thing, it is something down deep in our blood I'm afraid. Almost everybody here tries to hide things, I think Germany is actually the country which invented the board "de-badging".

    Hard work isn't too appreciated over here, we show compassion with animals, beggars and the unemployed but not with hard working people who earn a lot of money.
    Even in church, priests are accusing the "rich" of taking from the poor and enjoying their lives on their back. Ridiculous, in Germany 7% of the citizens pay over 80% of the taxes, so the "rich" (and believe me, I'm not rich by definition) actually run the whole state, without their money, Germany would go down the drain and I suppose it is the same in other countries too.

    Anyway: we have two little kids and "provoking" neighbors and friends actually does harm to them, believe it or not. If me and my wife wouldn't have kids, we couldn't care less about what neighbors or "friends" think.
    I already stopped picking up my kids in my 997 Turbo at friends or at school since there have been made some pretty nasty comments about me and my car, comments which actually arrive at my kids' ears first and this is what bothers me.

    A friend's daugther came back home from school a couple of years ago, asking her father if it is true that he is a "rich bastard" and only profiting from the poor. My friend was shocked, apparently the religion teacher of his daughter explained the words "rich" and "poor" to the kids and went a little bit too far with his descriptions. When my friend went to school to talk with the head of the teachers, he recommended to him to calm down and forget about it since it could "harm" his kid's grades later on.

    We live in a society where you have to be "ashamed" of earning good money and this is something I'll never understand.

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    Quote:
    aah986 said:
    Quote:
    Danny G said:
    Quote:
    aah986 said:
    Quote:
    CityRacer said:
    Quote:
    mish said:
    RC, out of curiosity why do you give a damn about what people say? I don't get the paranoia....removing badges, hoping no one notices....it's a shambles.



    Not caring is not always a wise move. Why attract unnecessary attention? Would you show off an exotic ride in a tough neighborhood because you don't care what people think?

    I personally don't like the attention either. I bought the car because I enjoy driving the car, and I don't need to become a conversation piece. Therefore, I do the same thing -- my clients only sees me in my Honda.


    In my line of business, if I go to work in a honda I will have no work at all. I make sure all my patients see the car parked outside so it does its job as symbol of success which is important in my field and to bring more business .



    Cosmetic Surgeon?


    close, Plastic surgeon



    problem solved;


    racerx, I have this exact same picture framed in my office and the patients can't stop laughing

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    RC said:
    In Germany, things are a little bit different I'm afraid.
    My wife is a doctor and she drives a Boxster S and she still has "problems" with patients who tell her in her face that doctors earn too much, bla bla bla. The fact is: in Germany, doctors currently earn a ridiculous amount of money for the work they're doing, so most people who say this just don't have a clue.

    In my job, things are even worse since I have a business which relies on customer faith and trust but even more on sympathy since businesses like mine can be found at almost every corner over here. If my customers think that I earn too much, they carry their business somewhere else, that simple. This is a german thing, it is something down deep in our blood I'm afraid. Almost everybody here tries to hide things, I think Germany is actually the country which invented the board "de-badging".

    Hard work isn't too appreciated over here, we show compassion with animals, beggars and the unemployed but not with hard working people who earn a lot of money.
    Even in church, priests are accusing the "rich" of taking from the poor and enjoying their lives on their back. Ridiculous, in Germany 7% of the citizens pay over 80% of the taxes, so the "rich" (and believe me, I'm not rich by definition) actually run the whole state, without their money, Germany would go down the drain and I suppose it is the same in other countries too.

    Anyway: we have two little kids and "provoking" neighbors and friends actually does harm to them, believe it or not. If me and my wife wouldn't have kids, we couldn't care less about what neighbors or "friends" think.
    I already stopped picking up my kids in my 997 Turbo at friends or at school since there have been made some pretty nasty comments about me and my car, comments which actually arrive at my kids' ears first and this is what bothers me.

    A friend's daugther came back home from school a couple of years ago, asking her father if it is true that he is a "rich bastard" and only profiting from the poor. My friend was shocked, apparently the religion teacher of his daughter explained the words "rich" and "poor" to the kids and went a little bit too far with his descriptions. When my friend went to school to talk with the head of the teachers, he recommended to him to calm down and forget about it since it could "harm" his kid's grades later on.

    We live in a society where you have to be "ashamed" of earning good money and this is something I'll never understand.



    From what I understand 47% of Germans are reliant on some form of social transfers. Don't worry, though. Sooner or later, the masses will have to realize that it's the rich bastards who pay for their unemployment checks.

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    From what I understand 47% of Germans are reliant on some form of social transfers.



    Thank god it's not that bad - "reliant" on social transfers are approximately 7 million people (living from social welfare) - still too much, of course.
    I guess the 47% is correct if you consider all sorts of public subsidies - e.g. even a millionaire receives 153 Euro / month so called "Kindergeld" for each kid (support to feed your kids) - that doesn't make him "reliant" on this specific transfer though
    For the middle class, receiving some kind of social transfer, the equation is easy: the government steals away 100 Euro from your left pocket (taxes, social insurances etc.) and returns 50 Euro via social transfers to your right pocket I hate this system It fools people and - together with the crazy tax system - kills any motivation to work harder/earn more money.
    I guess RC's numbers (distribution on personal income taxes with the top 10% earners paying 80% of income taxes) are correct. But you also have to consider, that the gross income even of an average earning guy can shrink to 50% net after taxes and after social security payments (public pension system, health insurance).
    As for the definition of "rich": everybody with an annual gross income > 250 k Euro has to pay the so-called "rich man's tax" (it's an addition to the normal income tax)
    Sounds pretty much like the political correct definition of a "racer" - that would be everybody exceeding the speed limit by 15 km/h or so
    The best hated guy over here would be a "rich racer", which brings us back to our topic number one (ehem...may be topic number two)

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    From what I understand 47% of Germans are reliant on some form of social transfers.



    Thank god it's not that bad - "reliant" on social transfers are approximately 7 million people (living from social welfare) - still too much, of course.
    I guess the 47% is correct if you consider all sorts of public subsidies - e.g. even a millionaire receives 153 Euro / month so called "Kindergeld" for each kid (support to feed your kids) - that doesn't make him "reliant" on this specific transfer though
    For the middle class, receiving some kind of social transfer, the equation is easy: the government steals away 100 Euro from your left pocket (taxes, social insurances etc.) and returns 50 Euro via social transfers to your right pocket I hate this system It fools people and - together with the crazy tax system - kills any motivation to work harder/earn more money.
    I guess RC's numbers (distribution on personal income taxes with the top 10% earners paying 80% of income taxes) are correct. But you also have to consider, that the gross income even of an average earning guy can shrink to 50% net after taxes and after social security payments (public pension system, health insurance).
    As for the definition of "rich": everybody with an annual gross income > 250 k Euro has to pay the so-called "rich man's tax" (it's an addition to the normal income tax)
    Sounds pretty much like the political correct definition of a "racer" - that would be everybody exceeding the speed limit by 15 km/h or so
    The best hated guy over here would be a "rich racer", which brings us back to our topic number one (ehem...may be topic number two)



    You need a German Jeremy Clarkson. Everybody would love to hate him . Regarding transfers, yes, my mistake. However, things will inevitably have to change or Germany will be left behind in the ever more competitive market. After all, it's hard to be a successful economic power when the rewards for hard work are jealousy and abhorrence.

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    [...] After all, it's hard to be a successful economic power when the rewards for hard work are jealousy and abhorrence.



    Uhm, no! You still can get a beautiful Eastern European girl with that money.

    No offense to any Eastern European girls but maybe you get my point - you cannot expect enjoyment in Europe for driving expensive cars. I have to agree with RC that some people nowadays show absurd tendencies towards wealthy people, but not only in Germany. Since [Western] German society had to demonstrate their hard-working ability and success by the acquaintance of certain goods, a few people can get pretty envy about other people earning more money than themselves. Apart from any socialdemocratic discussions, my essential concern about Germany's future is the lack of ability to step back from this materialistic attitude.

    If you don't have to rely on customers or your families' well-being than this shouldn't be an issue - people will probably talk about you anyways. Better be it due to your fancy car than your 80ies crocodile pants!

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    [...] After all, it's hard to be a successful economic power when the rewards for hard work are jealousy and abhorrence.



    Uhm, no! You still can get a beautiful Eastern European girl with that money.

    No offense to any Eastern European girls but maybe you get my point - you cannot expect enjoyment in Europe for driving expensive cars. I have to agree with RC that some people nowadays show absurd tendencies towards wealthy people, but not only in Germany. Since [Western] German society had to demonstrate their hard-working ability and success by the acquaintance of certain goods, a few people can get pretty envy about other people earning more money than themselves. Apart from any socialdemocratic discussions, my essential concern about Germany's future is the lack of ability to step back from this materialistic attitude.

    If you don't have to rely on customers or your families' well-being than this shouldn't be an issue - people will probably talk about you anyways. Better be it due to your fancy car than your 80ies crocodile pants!



    Who needs money to get Eastern-European girls?
    Regardless of whether or not one is reliant on the opinions of others for their income (such as in RC's case), there is also a risk of other unpleasantries, such as helping your car's true metallic color shine through the clear coat with the help of a key or deliberately damaging it in anoter way (Anhängerkupplung )...

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    RC, the jealousy of neighbours: is that something seen throughout Germany (even major cities like Frankfurt) or is it witnessed more in rural areas only?

    Here in the UK, we have 'pockets' of affluence across the country. In some cities, those pockets are larger (e.g. Kensington in London) with more extreme degrees of wealth.

    It's all relative. I can remember, I was once in St Ives in Cornwall about 6 years ago. (Cornwall is the poorest region in England). My car (back then a humble BMW 328i - sure, a nice car but nothing all that special) was filthy and, to my surprise and pleasure, I still got some thumbs up on the A-road I was driving on. A little later, some jealous people felt the need to throw broken crisps all over my car at a petrol station while I had gone into the kiosk to pay for my fuel. Maybe they were racist too - seeing a person of my colour with a car they could not afford. Maybe they were venting their frustration on me: the frustration of seeing more wealthy people from elsewhere in the UK buying second homes in Cornwall which has driven up house prices there beyond the reach of local people who can no longer afford to buy homes in that area anymore (since local incomes are so low).

    BTW, I don't own a second home in Cornwall and I have never intended to buy one there.

    I should say though that, after a 'welcome' like that, I decided never ever to go back to Cornwall again (as a visitor). So, their stupidity just lost whatever future tourism revenue they might earn from me. (NB Cornwall depends heavily on tourism).

    I just got in my car, having driven 6 hours to get to Cornwall from London, and headed straight to Dorset (further east on the south coast of England) where the local people know how to welcome visitors so much better. I have kept going back to various parts of Dorset ever since. I love it there.

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo


    I'm afraid what RC is describing is valid across Europe and especially in France.

    I would never go to some districts (arrondissements) in Paris with my Porsche.

    Last summer, I was in Marseille (South of France) driving thru a decent district and I missed a turn and just 2-3 blocks later I entered into a crummy area and guess what? I started to hear some stones hitting my 996 .... It took me just a few seconds to leave the premises "prontissimo".... By the way, it was 3.00pm...

    During my 6 years in South Florida I never experienced such a thing even if sometimes you can be driving thru really nasty areas ...

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    RC i read your frankly saddening social commentary above concerning your reasons for 'de-badging'...I cant think of anything worse; making somebody's children suffer and make a hardworking successfull individual feel guilt (or indeed anyone regardless of success) about who they are..youve done the right thing debadging but as for not picking your children up in the turbo...for everyman that thinks your a 'rich bastard' there are other like myself who see that car as a sign of hope that maybe someday I will have achieved enough success and worked hard enough to get a car like that... and not have to get my porsche thrills from riding in other peoples cars and hoodwinking OPCs into letting me testdrive theirs!! So when you do pick up your children feel no shame for what you have achieved..Im sure there are other people (even kids) out there smiling..

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    EricAlain said:

    I'm afraid what RC is describing is valid across Europe and especially in France.

    I would never go to some districts (arrondissements) in Paris with my Porsche.

    Last summer, I was in Marseille (South of France) driving thru a decent district and I missed a turn and just 2-3 blocks later I entered into a crummy area and guess what? I started to hear some stones hitting my 996 .... It took me just a few seconds to leave the premises "prontissimo".... By the way, it was 3.00pm...

    During my 6 years in South Florida I never experienced such a thing even if sometimes you can be driving thru really nasty areas ...



    Let me guess - North African district?

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    aah986 said:
    ...
    racerx, I have this exact same picture framed in my office and the patients can't stop laughing



    ...you are happy, you are not in a gynaecology field...

    ...as for the "stealth PORSCHE operation in life environment"...one may feel and implement his own BALANCE within his own life environment. Balance is probably the right solution.


    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    congratulations Christian!

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Stunning car RC in our colour- you're a lucky guy, unfortunately that little 'S' will be missing from ours when we pick it up on Thursday, so I guess we'll have to have it as our new dream

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Interesting choice.
    I drove an '08 Turbo with PDCC, a Turbo S and a Turbo with E81 Power Kit all back to back and for quite few miles, not the quick loop to the next freeway exit and back.
    The E81 car was apparently updated to the same spec as the Turbo S. It had 20K miles on it. It felt taught and responsive, not a rattle or squeak. Lag was there, but less than a normal Turbo by far.
    I could not feel anything in the Turbo S over the Power Kit.
    I think the Turbo S will have the resale advantage because the US market relies upon model names and "condition" while it discounts the options on the window sticker to almost zero on resale value.
    While I was impressed with the Power Kit brakes, the newer Turbo brakes had a little more feel and bight.
    The price advantage wasn't there for me in the Turbo S. Each of the examples available did not have the right options for me and the price delta was heavily ($25K) in favour of the year older Turbo with Power Kit.
    Given the absence of any cabin improvements and there being very little discounting ($5K) given the car is new to market, the new '08 Turbo was by no means compelling -- the out-the-door price would have been more than the Turbo S and the first year of depreciation will surely follow the old model, so by the end of the second year, it would have been a $75K delta compared to the year older Turbo with Power Kit. The US market skips the '07 model year for the Cayenne, so hopefully, at least in the short term, secondary market buyers will remember the '06 Cayenne might be only a month or two older than the '08 Cayenne.

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    @ymmv,

    I have a different opinion.

    In the long run, a 2006 Cayenne will be viewed as 2 years older than a 2008 Cayenne to a second hand buyer, but not just a few months older.

    I have compared the new CTT and a new 2006 CTTS. Even with big discount on CTTS, the new CTT is still a more attractive buy for me.

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    I have driven both back to back, thought about trading up from my 05 CTT. I have to say tha even with all the discounts ($25K+) available on the 06 CTT S I would still opt for the 08 CTT. It is a more responsive car, and there are many subtle improvements. Logic tells me to hold on to the 05 and wait for the next itieration, but emotions often prevail.

    I'm all for the new 08 with PDCC!

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    cnc said:
    I have driven both back to back, thought about trading up from my 05 CTT. I have to say tha even with all the discounts ($25K+) available on the 06 CTT S I would still opt for the 08 CTT. It is a more responsive car, and there are many subtle improvements. Logic tells me to hold on to the 05 and wait for the next itieration, but emotions often prevail.

    I'm all for the new 08 with PDCC!

    I agree... the 25k discount is great but you still have the old technology. Forget all the new visual changes like the lighting, wheels and bumpers. Just the PDCC is worth it! just my 2 cents.

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Holding for the next Cayenne iteration (2010/11?), not enough changes to let go of the 04 CTT.

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    Targa Tim said:
    @ymmv,

    I have a different opinion.

    In the long run, a 2006 Cayenne will be viewed as 2 years older than a 2008 Cayenne to a second hand buyer, but not just a few months older.

    I have compared the new CTT and a new 2006 CTTS. Even with big discount on CTTS, the new CTT is still a more attractive buy for me.



    It's hard to determine what will happen in the long run. In some cases, an older model will actually hold its value better. An example would be the last of the air-cooled 911's. In most cases, the car's value will have depreciated to its residual value, and what determines its worth will be its condition more than the model year.

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    993Targa said:
    Congrats...
    ... but would not have been my choice. The Cayenne really needed this face lift and I like the changes they made. I'm afraid is that what you save on the purchase price you would loose on the depreciation. Mots people would take a facelifted Cayenne Turbo over an old Turbo S

    But then I do not know what the discount was you got..

    I ran into that situation. Was offered 3 different Turbo S, 2006 models, all brand new, in addition at around 85-88k. Almost pulled the trigger because they were all listed between 115-120k. The only reason I didn't was because none of them were white. In the end I'm glad I gettng the 2008 CTT. Got the spec. myself and I do like the minor changes they have made to the Cayenne.

    Re: Went for Turbo S instead of new Turbo

    Quote:
    mvn1971 said:
    Quote:
    993Targa said:
    Congrats...
    ... but would not have been my choice. The Cayenne really needed this face lift and I like the changes they made. I'm afraid is that what you save on the purchase price you would loose on the depreciation. Mots people would take a facelifted Cayenne Turbo over an old Turbo S

    But then I do not know what the discount was you got..

    I ran into that situation. Was offered 3 different Turbo S, 2006 models, all brand new, in addition at around 85-88k. Almost pulled the trigger because they were all listed between 115-120k. The only reason I didn't was because none of them were white. In the end I'm glad I gettng the 2008 CTT. Got the spec. myself and I do like the minor changes they have made to the Cayenne.

    you wont regret white trust me!!!

     
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