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    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    Grant:

    Imo, the only 997 to be a real classics will be the GT3 RS 4.0 and GT2 RS


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello

    I agree Grant. Just look at all the special editions of the 996 (Millenium, 40th Aniversary, ect) the only 996 that is a classic is the 996GT3RS, the rest fade as they become older and outdated since they don't have anything truly exceptional that keep the interest - something that combines an exceptional ability or character (i.e. RS version for example) - and production number (i.e carrera spin off vs a small edition RS version of a GT model). Which is the case for the GT2RS and GT3RS 4.0 and was the case for the 996 GT3RS. Wider body, special paint color, special wheels, optional equip as standard like powerkits, especia anniversary tag, etc is not that special after time IMO. Stil great cars, but won't particularly sought after as classics.


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    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    The 996 special edition models were a joke.

    I'm pretty sure that the 997 GT3 RS 4.0 will become a classic sooner or later, unfortunately this also means that the GT3 RS (non-4.0) will just be "another" 911 GT3 RS model.

    I'm not so sure about the GT2 RS though, it remains to be seen after Porsche introduces the new 991 GT/RS models.

    The 997 Carrera S GTS or GTS Cabriolet will have a certain momentum and I'm pretty sure that this car will make it to collectors in 20-30 years but this also means that the value of the non-GTS models will decrease even further, including the Carrera 4/4S models and unfortunately the Carrera 4/4S GTS too.

    The 997 Speedster could be another 997 model to make it to collectors sooner or later but the Sport Classic is a joke in my opinion.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    I have a total different opinion again - as I believe non of these cars can be considered a classic since to me classic cars are those who appreciate in value - and considering already that here in CH you can get a 4.0 below it's list price and a GT2RS very much under LP - non of these models will be a classic - they are just the pinnacle of it's models lifespan and despite that I absolutely adore the Meztger-block and honestly believe those non DFI engines will probably the most "valuable" part - and reason of why I bought mine - the next GT3 and RS will again be better and people will move on. Maybe the limitation to 600 pieces will once chip-in - but I don't think it will be looked as a Ferrari F40 or a MC F1 in 10 years time. Same with the Carrera GT - outstanding car and I love it's sound but no problem to purchase one at a "reasonable" price...

    As to the 997 / 991 - I would indeed also go for a very good priced GTS - rather than a base 991S for considerable more money unless you can get one rather quickly and shift always to the latest model with a small depreciation in resale.


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    BjoernB:

    I have a total different opinion again - as I believe non of these cars can be considered a classic since to me classic cars are those who appreciate in value - and considering already that here in CH you can get a 4.0 below it's list price and a GT2RS very much under LP

    You cannot judge a classic's appreciation at this point in time.  When the Shelby Daytona Coupes were done racing, you couldn't give them away.  Someone bought one for $600 and now it's worth millions.  A 73 RSR wasn't worth much in 1974 either.  You need to wait a couple decades to know the real value.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    You really have to think about what makes these "future classic" cars so special or worth collecting.

    Yes, indeed...the number of how many cars were built surely makes a difference.

    However:

    1. The GT3 RS 4.0 is probably the last GT3 RS with the Mezger engine. If true, this alone makes it a classic.

    2. The Carrera GTS is a 2WD with 4WD body. This may not sound exceptional but it is. On the other hand, Porsche put a couple of thousands of these puppies on the street, so maybe this car needs at least 20-30 years to be considered a future classic, I don't know.

    It depends how you define "classic" and what future collectors want (and how special they consider certain models to be). 

    Right now, it is very difficult to predict anything.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    No one knows the future. When the Carrera 2.7 RS was introduced in the 70s no one thought it would acquire a mythical status 25-30 years later and sell for 100K Euro.

    We don't know how automobiles will look like or drive in 2040. Perhaps by then all Porsche sportscars will be classics.

    Talking about the 996, IMO the "40 Jahre" should have been more coveted. It had the special GT silver paint, the special pattern leather seats, a dynamic front bumper and side-skirts, the 345PS powerkit and LSD.


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    Grant - I agree on yr examples -but very much doubt you can replicate this on today's cars. They are not unique enough - but just my 2 cents.


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    BjoernB:

    Grant - I agree on yr examples -but very much doubt you can replicate this on today's cars. They are not unique enough - but just my 2 cents.

    Like Grant said, very difficult to predict. We can only speculate but I could even imagine that in 20-30 years, a Cayenne GTS would be some sort of collector's item. You never know how crazy collectors are going to be in a couple of decades.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    BjoernB:

    Grant - I agree on yr examples -but very much doubt you can replicate this on today's cars. They are not unique enough - but just my 2 cents.

    Well, there were 1,578 1973 Carrera RS 2.7 examples and only 500 or 600 examples of the GT2RS or GT3RS 4.0, respectively.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    reginos:

    Talking about the 996, IMO the "40 Jahre" should have been more coveted. It had the special GT silver paint, the special pattern leather seats, a dynamic front bumper and side-skirts, the 345PS powerkit and LSD.


    Those were, unforunately, only cosmetic changes and additional options. I personally don´t think people pay substantially more for such a car because of an unconventional colour. It might be different if the car would be very rare in the first place.

    Most comments doubting the longterm value of today´s Porsche models are focussing solely on the short-term effects. There have been a lot of cars in history that have dropped in value at one time only to become a collector´s item in the long run. Cars that made a positive impact at their debut are also more likely to gain appreciation over time. The successor´s qualities are also critical for a car´s value over time, the 993 wouldnt have gained such value if the 996 would have stayed more on line in terms of concept, design and quality.

    It is certainly presumptuous to believe that the 997 GTS will gain similiarly in value as the original 911 RS but its features will most certainly provide an additional value to the car.


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    Now we have shifted to what these cars might be worth in 20-40 years!  The original question was 997GTS or 991S - I doubt the question was which would be worth more money 20 years from now!  If that is the case then you better not drive the GTS and put miles on it.  If you buy it because it is a classic you pretty much have to park it as new to have it be significantly more valuable in 20-40 years time.  Don't think this was the original point of the question.  997GT3 or 991S is the only choice that would make sense.  Don't care a hoot about a wide body (which slows you down and adds weight) and center lock wheels you can't change on the road without special tools.

     

     


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    RC:

    The 997 Carrera S GTS or GTS Cabriolet will have a certain momentum and I'm pretty sure that this car will make it to collectors in 20-30 years but this also means that the value of the non-GTS models will decrease even further, including the Carrera 4/4S models and unfortunately the Carrera 4/4S GTS too.

    At the moment, they are  6  GTS4/GTS4 cab  on my dealer's floor , each nicely optioned and all with a 16% discount + special lease offer !  Smiley  Either they do not sell as people want now the 991,  or they just want to make space and then they are even a better deal .  I  opt for the first option.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    For me, I would forget the 997GTS--and all the speculation of what is a "classic"-- and get the new 991 Carrera S.   Keep the decision simple... 


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    As to what car is a classic, to me the last one the be a classic is the RS92 . It's value has gone up quite a bit.

    After that, no GT3, or any RS is a classic yet and not sure any will become one. ( maybe 997.2 RS  , or RS4.0 , but that's it )


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Carrera 4 gts or new 991??

    Wonderbar:

    For me, I would forget the 997GTS--and all the speculation of what is a "classic"-- and get the new 991 Carrera S.   Keep the decision simple... 

    It depends on the deal and what he is going to use the car for. On the straight line, there is practically no difference between the 991 Carrera S and 997 Carrera 4 GTS.

    I would probably get the 991 Carrera S too...unless the dealer offers me the deal of my life (which would mean at least 10% less for the Carrera 4 GTS than for the 991 Carrera S). On the other hand, the 997 Carrera 4 GTS will surely loose in value the moment he puts his license plates on the car.

    This is why I really appreciated the lease deal Porsche Financial offered me 7 months ago: 18 months lease period and after that I can switch to any other Porsche model I like without any disadvantages. Luckily, I chose this deal because after I return my Carrera GTS Cab in 11 months, I will very likely get the Cayenne Turbo (S) instead.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


     
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