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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Like Nick, I hope Porsche loosens its styling lines a bit.  But I trust Porsche will be very careful, as sharp styling lines can be disastrous, and lead to change for change sake over the years.    Sharp styling lines tend to look dated quickly, and can look too much like design for design sake.  Japanese designers fall into this trap, as does Cadillac, and BMW occasionally,   Style becomes the driving issue, not function, and the overall image of the brand becomes less "pure" and cheaper appearing.  I for one am somewhat worried about the sharper taillight appearance as thus far seen on the new 991 renderings. 


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Wonderbar:

    [...] sharp styling lines can be disastrous [...]


    Every Porsche so far, even the front-engined models, have defined themselves by convex and concave shapes. No graphical elements have been used unless they define a reason, such as air intakes, door and window seams, head and taillights etc. Only secondary body elements such as the wheel arches on 914-6,944 or 928 or the side skirts as on the 997 have been defined by additional bulges that do not define the body itself. The only clear exemption of the rule for me is the airoutlet on the Panamera´s sides but due to its size it can be seen as negligible.

    They seem to stay true to their origins on the 991/998 judging by the revealed parts on the car so far.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    AZ 991 spy.jpg

    ....  and with small touch of p-shop

    Porsche-991-003 misha.JPG


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     The tail lights are complete stickers, so you would actually have to render your own to get an accurate result. Besides that, it does look good.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    nberry:

    Porsche doesn't believe in sharp styling lines. It would represent too much of a departure from their beloved evolution philosophy.

     I am hoping the VW influence will loosen the philosophy.

    You think the same VW that still builds a New Beetle whose styling deliberately mirrors that of Old Beetle over 70 years after the latter's original introduction is unlikely to be sympathetic to that philosophy? SmileySmiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Fritz, as I understand the situation, when VW "took over Porsche" the senior executives had a look at the new model and expressed some dissatisfaction with it's styling particularly the front end. Additional, they stated they wanted Porsche to be more aggressive in styling future Porsche's.

    As far as the Beetle is concerned, I would never equate it to Porsche since the point of the Beetle is value transportation and styling is not a priority.


    --

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    nberry:

    As far as the Beetle is concerned, I would never equate it to Porsche since the point of the Beetle is value transportation and styling is not a priority.

     

    Never??? Smiley

     Here is one from 2007:

    Ocean you can trick up a 997TT Cab all you like but it still is one ugly car. The money difference between a Spider and 997TT is well worth it. 

    Actually the 997TT Cab would be better to tow the boat because the boat would hid the Beetle like Cab. rear.

     

    And one from 2004, almost back when you voted G.W.Bush:

    Taking a car like the 997 and making it look like a car over 10 yrs old does will not generate excitement in me or the driving public despite it performance numbers at the ring. It is a VW Beetle on testastrone

     

    Of course this is all before you bought a Beetle Turbo Cab and voted Obama Smiley Smiley 

     

     

    Sorry Firtz, I had to take this one Smiley


    --


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:
    nberry:

    As far as the Beetle is concerned, I would never equate it to Porsche since the point of the Beetle is value transportation and styling is not a priority.

     

    Never??? Smiley

     Here is one from 2007:

    Ocean you can trick up a 997TT Cab all you like but it still is one ugly car. The money difference between a Spider and 997TT is well worth it. 

    Actually the 997TT Cab would be better to tow the boat because the boat would hid the Beetle like Cab. rear.

     

    And one from 2004, almost back when you voted G.W.Bush:

    Taking a car like the 997 and making it look like a car over 10 yrs old does will not generate excitement in me or the driving public despite it performance numbers at the ring. It is a VW Beetle on testastrone

     

    Of course this is all before you bought a Beetle Turbo Cab and voted Obama Smiley Smiley 

     

     

    Sorry Firtz, I had to take this one Smiley


    --

    Now go back to your cage, Nick.

    Owned...Smiley...
     


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:
    nberry:

    As far as the Beetle is concerned, I would never equate it to Porsche since the point of the Beetle is value transportation and styling is not a priority.

     

    Never??? Smiley

     Here is one from 2007:

    Ocean you can trick up a 997TT Cab all you like but it still is one ugly car. The money difference between a Spider and 997TT is well worth it. 

    Actually the 997TT Cab would be better to tow the boat because the boat would hid the Beetle like Cab. rear.

     

    And one from 2004, almost back when you voted G.W.Bush:

    Taking a car like the 997 and making it look like a car over 10 yrs old does will not generate excitement in me or the driving public despite it performance numbers at the ring. It is a VW Beetle on testastrone

     

    Of course this is all before you bought a Beetle Turbo Cab and voted Obama Smiley Smiley 

     

     

    Sorry Firtz, I had to take this one Smiley


    --

     Smiley 

    Be my guest. Smiley 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Throt, cage?Smiley

    Carlos, I was very much aware of my past references toPorsche and the Beetle. I believe I even had a picture of the front of the Beetle and Porsche side by side to show their similarities. 

    My failing in my above post was to have failed to point out NEVER equating Porsche to a Beetle NOW. However, I do understand some of the immature members of the board love to play "got you". If that makes them happy, I am glad I contribute to their happiness.Smiley


    --

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    We have seen all of the spy pics, heard tanatalizing predictions of less weight, better handling so forth and so on, but at the end of the day the 991 GT3 will look the same as a 997 GT3 to the average person. 

    Porsche really needs a new mid engine sports car for that price range and market segment and not just a reskinned R8 either.

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    I could not agree more!

    I have a special fondness for the 911,as I grew up with one version or another in my household and it was always regraded as my more important "elder brother". So before everyone starts having conniptions and wishing that I was  whipped to an inch of my life: NO ONE IS ADVOCATING THE END OF THE 911! - There - I said it.

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:

    I could not agree more!

    I have a special fondness for the 911,as I grew up with one version or another in my household and it was always regraded as my more important "elder brother". So before everyone starts having conniptions and wishing that I was  whipped to an inch of my life: NO ONE IS ADVOCATING THE END OF THE 911! - There - I said it.

     

     agreed.  imo porsche has built enough credibility and brand respect to give itself a bit of room to experiment and change the game a little. keep the 911 line intact, but try to rekindle the fire a bit. Its true that most people can't tell the difference between past models and current. And no matter how good a car is, if its being so clearly confused with the old one then something is not right. 


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    nberry:

     ... the point of the Beetle is value transportation and styling is not a priority.


    I disagree - the VW Beetle isn't cheap for what you get - IMvHO it's all about styling and image - it appeals to a market segment that wants a modern take on an old icon - complete with flower vase in the dashboard. I see (typically) women in their 30s buy these cars - often in colours that make me grimace (like baby pink) ...


    --


    RT Moderator - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    My wife would gladly trade me in for one of those! In yellow!!


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    nberry:

    I am glad I contribute to their happiness.Smiley

     

    Oh...and you did. A lot. Smiley Smiley

    No more Prozac for me... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    easy_rider911:
    nberry:

     ... the point of the Beetle is value transportation and styling is not a priority.


    I disagree - the VW Beetle isn't cheap for what you get - IMvHO it's all about styling and image - it appeals to a market segment that wants a modern take on an old icon - complete with flower vase in the dashboard. I see (typically) women in their 30s buy these cars - often in colours that make me grimace (like baby pink) ...

    Exactly, the "new Beetle" is a Golf IV with a different body with priority on style at the expense of practicality. If someone wants a VW for  transport this person buys the Golf and saves money too.

    Many people are attracted by the shape of the new Beetle, not because they knew the "old Beetle (since most of them were not born when the old one was around, in Europe at least) but because of the timelessness of its curvy body. I find that people are more attracted by curves than by straight lines and angular shapes. Hence the timeless appeal of the 911 too.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    JimFlat6:

    We have seen all of the spy pics, heard tanatalizing predictions of less weight, better handling so forth and so on, but at the end of the day the 991 GT3 will look the same as a 997 GT3 to the average person. 

    Porsche really needs a new mid engine sports car for that price range and market segment and not just a reskinned R8 either.

     

     JIm, I could not agree more. I love the Turbo but it suffers from commonality especially in Southern California. 

    I have long maintained ( Carlos, I am sure you will check this outSmiley) that should Porsche introduce a mid-engine model with performance near the top of the model range, I would be first in line to buy it.

     


    --

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    nberry:


    ... I love the Turbo but it suffers from commonality especially in Southern California

    .... should Porsche introduce a mid-engine model with performance near the top of the model range, I would be first in line to buy it.


    A tiny glimpse of the old Nick - he's alive - he's in there somewhere, hands and feet all bound and tied up, mouth gagged ... Smiley Smiley We love the old Nick Smiley Smiley

    Nick, the 997 TT is common anywhere where people have money - there are tons of them in London - Porsche Turbos are amazing cars but they are certainly not rare or exclusive. Anyone with a cheque book can get one. It's not like you have to buy a Maserati or a used Ferrari to be considered for a new Ferrari model.

    As for a mid-engine Porsche, there was the CGT - but this never had PSM (which I believe) is why you didn't get one.


    --


    RT Moderator - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     I am past exclusivity. But I still admire sexy attractive styling.

    What I am looking for is a Porsche that is built by Porsche but does not look like a Porsche. It need not be a limited production car like the CGT(Easy, you are correct, lack of PCM ultimately caused me not to write the check though the black interior with black exterior also played a large role). What I want is Porsche engineering in a mid-engine high performance sport car that is NEAR not necessarily at the top of Porsche performance models. The Boxster and Cayman just don't cut it.

    I believe Iain alluded to a rumored model as a described a couple of weeks ago.

     


    --

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Agree with Nick for the most part, but think the best direction is a non-911 design over and above the 911 variants including the GT2 RS.  There are at least two possibilities (1) a detuned street usable 918 variant in the 200-300K range; or (2) a super high end Panamera RS in the same cost range.  Each has its own advantages/disadvantages.  The 918 variant will be stunning and stylish, but will sacrifice daily function (rear view issues, cramped interior, etc.).  The Panamera RS would be far more usable, but will always be attacked as a GT without sports car agility.  And I am sure there are plenty of folks on the Board that would scoff at a high end Panamera, but I believe with some facelift design improvements and a 600HP or so engine, the car would be unique, usable and appealing to folks who have the resources to spend. 

    But overall, any new variant must lead the way in new technologies beyond the fuel based models.  It is crystal clear that Porsche has set its course in some sort of hybrid, battery technology direction.  The future--sadly to some--is not in ever faster fuel only powered sports cars.  IMHO the 997 segment as we know it today will face enormous challenges and gradually more limited sales.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    or on the flip side entertain ALL sports car enthusiasts if it is to remain a clean 6cyl sports car without hybrid tech and paddle playstation shifters..

    Certainly Porsche isn't turning the 911 into some sort of high-tech hybrid just yet, that is what the VW Group has Lamborghini for now


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Wonderbar:

    Agree with Nick for the most part, but think the best direction is a non-911 design over and above the 911 variants including the GT2 RS.  There are at least two possibilities (1) a detuned street usable 918 variant in the 200-300K range; or (2) a super high end Panamera RS in the same cost range.  Each has its own advantages/disadvantages.  The 918 variant will be stunning and stylish, but will sacrifice daily function (rear view issues, cramped interior, etc.).  The Panamera RS would be far more usable, but will always be attacked as a GT without sports car agility.  And I am sure there are plenty of folks on the Board that would scoff at a high end Panamera, but I believe with some facelift design improvements and a 600HP or so engine, the car would be unique, usable and appealing to folks who have the resources to spend. 

    But overall, any new variant must lead the way in new technologies beyond the fuel based models.  It is crystal clear that Porsche has set its course in some sort of hybrid, battery technology direction.  The future--sadly to some--is not in ever faster fuel only powered sports cars.  IMHO the 997 segment as we know it today will face enormous challenges and gradually more limited sales.

      Might as well add the Cayenne into the mix if you're looking for Panamera variants.   The car is a boat (and an ugly boat at that.) Smiley

    I can't see how they'd price a 918 variant below 300K when the GT2RS already falls into that category.  Any perceived upgrade in model lines would merit a Porsche-tax of at least 50K.Smiley


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    I believe Porsche has indicated they will introduce a new GT2 model between the 911 & 918.  No base price was given but one would think the base model would start somewhere in the $200K range. With all the most recent work done on mid-engine cars - Carrera GT, 918, etc., you would expect this new model to be a mid-engine car.


    --

    2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black,  2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    ... and the funny thing is that Porsche were racing mid-engined cars in the mid-fifties whilst their opposition in sports car racing, were still racing front engined cars. (as in the 550,550 RS, 550 A.R.S,  718 RSK)


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    nberry:
    JimFlat6:

    We have seen all of the spy pics, heard tanatalizing predictions of less weight, better handling so forth and so on, but at the end of the day the 991 GT3 will look the same as a 997 GT3 to the average person. 

    Porsche really needs a new mid engine sports car for that price range and market segment and not just a reskinned R8 either.

     

     JIm, I could not agree more. I love the Turbo but it suffers from commonality especially in Southern California. 

    I have long maintained ( Carlos, I am sure you will check this outSmiley) that should Porsche introduce a mid-engine model with performance near the top of the model range, I would be first in line to buy it.

     

    They really do need a new model but I am not saying to kill the 997. It is a evergreen car and unkillable.

    Just build something entirely new with no ties to the past. A breakthrough gamechanger that advances the state of the art dynamically and visually. Something fresh, fast, bold that will inspire the next gemeration of sports car fans.

    I know Porsche loves to keep reselling elements of their past but its time to sell the future.

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    JimFlat6:
    nberry:
    JimFlat6:

    We have seen all of the spy pics, heard tanatalizing predictions of less weight, better handling so forth and so on, but at the end of the day the 991 GT3 will look the same as a 997 GT3 to the average person. 

    Porsche really needs a new mid engine sports car for that price range and market segment and not just a reskinned R8 either.

     

     JIm, I could not agree more. I love the Turbo but it suffers from commonality especially in Southern California. 

    I have long maintained ( Carlos, I am sure you will check this outSmiley) that should Porsche introduce a mid-engine model with performance near the top of the model range, I would be first in line to buy it.

     

    They really do need a new model but I am not saying to kill the 997. It is a evergreen car and unkillable.

    Just build something entirely new with no ties to the past. A breakthrough gamechanger that advances the state of the art dynamically and visually. Something fresh, fast, bold that will inspire the next gemeration of sports car fans.

    I know Porsche loves to keep reselling elements of their past but its time to sell the future.

     

    SmileySmiley


    --

    965 3.3turbo/  993 targa / 996 cab /997S cab

    Audi R8  //  Audi A5 S-line 3.0tdi Quattro/ RR 4.4i


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    nberry:

     I am past exclusivity. But I still admire sexy attractive styling.

    What I am looking for is a Porsche that is built by Porsche but does not look like a Porsche. It need not be a limited production car like the CGT(Easy, you are correct, lack of PCM ultimately caused me not to write the check though the black interior with black exterior also played a large role). What I want is Porsche engineering in a mid-engine high performance sport car that is NEAR not necessarily at the top of Porsche performance models. The Boxster and Cayman just don't cut it.

    I believe Iain alluded to a rumored model as a described a couple of weeks ago.

     

    Nick, this is pcm Smiley


    --

     

    http://i54.tinypic.com/34fcl7a.jpg


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Hi all, the new car looks really good. Does anyone had a view, or even better pictures, of the new key. Wondering whether it will be a classic blade like the current Porsche 997/987 and Ferrari 458 keys? or hopefully a fob like the Mercedes plug in type with hidden blade? I have a 987 Boxster which I really like. But the key off my C-Class outclasses it in looks, build and keeping scratches  off my iPhone.


     
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