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    News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    Today Porsche contacted my dealer, they want to have my car at the dealership next week to check if my car isn't loosing some kind of pressure at the lower rpm range.
    Apparently they found something based on the technical readout of my motronic.
    I'm pretty sure that this is NOT the problem but Porsche still insists that there NEVER has been a software update regarding throttle/shifting response for the Cayenne Turbo and they also insist that they're not aware of any problem.
    I have several mails which I printed out to show them to Porsche, just in case they find nothing wrong with my car.
    I'm also willing to drive in my ML55 to Zuffenhausen to show them how a SUV can (and should) shift and respond to throttle application.

    What I'm asking now: if your Cayenne Turbo or S has the mentioned (check older posts) throttle/shifting delay, please send a mail to rc@rennteam.com, mention your VIN number and tell me in a few sentences about your throttle/shifting response. Of course only if you didn't send me a mail yet a few weeks ago.
    I also ask for a "proof" from your US/UK dealer that a software update has been applied, maybe some kind of service report, technical bulletin where such an update is mentioned, etc. Something WRITTEN. If you have such a document, please send scan it and send it by email. A digital photography and a picture file via eMail would do fine as well.
    Thanks!

    Re: News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    I asked regarding throttle to my service manager. He said that there is no software update and the main point about the throttle response is to save fuel and thats it.

    I will get my VIN number asap and I will email it to you with a complete description on how I feel about my S. Thanks RC, you make a huge contribution to Porsche people

    Re: News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    RC,

    Didn't you say, couple weeks ago, that the throttle/shifting problem was resolved by turning off the PSM?

    Re: News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    this is from a another member who said that it fixed the throttle shifting problem. here u go

    Following below reset procedure will help you TEMPORARILY for about 1 mo, until adaptive trany PROGRAM will learn your SLOW/LAZY driving style AGAIN in 1 mo. time...

    ... my very deep software products/industry knowledge tells me, car hesitates on downshift, when trany SOFTware program ABBENDS/ creates exception and just hangs there, not knowing where to go...
    ...I STRONGLY believe, German PROGRAMMERS used for this (starting from AUDI, VW and now Porsche...) created NOT very RELIABLE code for these cars. Cheap PORSCHE AG even did not PAID for a new SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT for Porsche, they used OLD BUGGY CODE from Audi/VW. Specifically, programs do not EXIT/RESET itself RELIABLY when they crash/abbend/create exception/gracefully exit...

    So UNTIL permanent fix you may live well with following below reset procedure, try it, you'll understand...

    RESET/REBOOTcar adaptive software by listed below procedure and let us all know results:

    1. get out of the car and lock it.
    2. unlock it and get in, DO NOT TOUCH/SWITCH ON ANYTHING (like radio, CD, lights, AC and other appliances...)
    3. insert a key, DO NOT PRESS ANY pedals and turn a key into position #2 ("Start Engine" position) and release (like , when you start a car).
    4. wait for 60 sec. may be a little more for SURE result.
    5. turn the key OFF
    6. press the Brakes pedal, Start the car AS USUAL and drive.
    7. drive aggressivelly for about 5 mi on speeds 10-50 mi/h and 60-80 mi /h VARIING speed.

    After that driving revert to your NORMAL driving style. Check for any car changed behaviour AFTER 1-3 car starts.

    Report your findings.

    This procedure SHOULD clear BUGGY German programmers code EXCEPTION and just reset/restart/reboot this program...

    And also drive Cayenne aggressively, NOT LAZY/SLOW. Seems like Adaptive stupid Program learns SLOW/LAZY driver style very fast! Driving tiptronic/aggressively and also w PSM Off seems like KILLS/FIGHTS this stupid learning PROGRAM. And as a result car drives MUCH better, without HESITATION on DOWNSHIFT.

    This is my experience with this car...

    Re: News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    jamy, this is nothing new. You also don't have to follow the instructions that precisely. It is sufficient to enter the car, insert the key into ignition, turn the key to ignition on (don't start the engine!), leave it there 60 seconds, turn ignition off and remove the key. Don't touch any pedal (throttle or brake) during this procedure. It resets the fuzzy logic but it doesn't take long until it is back to "normal", it adapts pretty fast, even if you drive very aggressive. I use my Cayenne Turbo as a daily driver and my main driving is in the city. Driving very aggressive in the city doesn't work to well, so after a day or two, the adaptive function goes back to the "lazy" throttle/shifting response.

    The only solution would be to turn off the adaptive function completely. But I'm afraid this would not only be illegal (certification) but also result in a much higher fuel consumption under certain conditions.

    I'm in the process to write a reply to Porsche regarding the gearbox ECU unit they installed on my Cayenne and I hope they finally agree to find a permanent solution. Right now I'm not so happy.

    Re: News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    It almost sounds to me as if PAG didn't expect so many enthusiastic drivers in the Cayenne...

    Looks like certain people actually care about their invested money and don't drive the car just for POS!

    It can only improve the product!

    Re: News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    It almost sounds to me as if PAG didn't expect so many enthusiastic drivers in the Cayenne...

    Looks like certain people actually care about their invested money and don't drive the car just for POS!

    It can only improve the product!



    You're right. But even worse: some Porsche employees just argue that the Cayenne is no sportscar and we Cayenne owners shouldn't compare it to sportscars. I agree, the Cayenne is no sportscar but at least I thought it is a Porsche and therefore a bit sportier than other SUVs.
    Otherwise I could have bought a VW Touareg.

    Re: News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    RC Here we go again with the he said she said stuff. DME 3.1 software was installed in my S last week, this is the subject of a TSB. The 05 Auto Trans controller is on order as the second part of a proposed fix.

    On that same note, for them to say no software has been released is bull they should read their own TSB's.

    Re: News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    Quote:
    RC said:...therefore a bit sportier than other SUVs. Otherwise I could have bought a VW Touareg.



    I'd settle for the Cayenne being as safe as the other SUVs I've driven and not leaving me, or someone else driving it, 'dead' as I pull into traffic or out of a turn.

    I'm feeling the same way about the Touareg. It doesn't seem to match the Cayenne in handling but around town its sport transmission mode seems to be the answer to my Cayenne concerns.

    It appears that Porsche didn't (or doesn't) expect people to drive the Cayenne in traffic where you can't get on the throttle or play with the Tiptronic all the time (even less so with the Turbo). I had to really watch it when I was talking to PCNA. They harped on issues at Interstate speeds. I really wanted to grab the guy and say 'Interstate speeds? I'm lucky if I average 20mph 6 days out of the week. One of the new hybrids and a second car (certainly not Porsche at this point) or going back to an ML55 is looking better all the time.

    Do I regret the Cayenne purchase? Over the past eight months I've answered 'no' to this question. This month...I'm beginning to.

    My disappointment that Porsche hasn't done what it could to head off and resolve issues that many of us (not to mention the VW folks or other SUV owners) have had for too long is growing exponentially. Vibration, e-throttle, tire flat spots and brake issues where well documented years before on at least the ML front. On top of this the fundamentals of the Touareg and Cayenne are too close for Porsche not to be watching what's hitting VW and having fixes in place before the issues impact their customer base. At the least Porsche should prep the dealers so they don't block the flow of concerned information with comments like:

    - It's the PSM
    - It's an SUV not a sports car
    - It's the e-gas
    - It's normal with turbocharged vehicles

    Re: News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    Now thats make sense !

    Our "commuter" Cayennes spend a lot of time in the bad end of the power band, turning 90 degree corners not nice curves at speed and at speeds between 20 and 50 not 110 to 140.

    VW do NOT have fixes in place, according to my dealer, (who sells both) they ARE more worried because its already a stretch selling a VW for the high price of the Treg let alone have "other" bad press.

    Its simple, IMHO, (on the S), for this weight you need the gearing to help out. The transmission is set wrong, it will only go to 2 if pushed really hard accelerating, not on the slow down where its needed to get ready to GO. This limitation could be PSM but given that it happens when the weight is not really being thrown around the sensitivity of the gas pedal would seem more likely.

    The fact that it has not been fixed tells me that its an expensive fix, not just software but hardware as well.

    Having lived with it for 20K miles and had everything done to my car, my conclusions seem the only ones that fit.

    The other issue is the design of the SW, the fact that the DME reset (using PST2) only lasts about a month before needing to be redone tells me that some severe interaction with the learning part of the program is occuring or some dumb memory leak (like a Microsoft program) is causing drift. By now a software fix would have been out there had it been just this.

    If as you say (RC) the plant still does not understand the problem, US owners need to call 800 327 7243 (PCNA Atlanta) and make sure they are aware of your individual case.

    My dealer can write elequent about this problem and needs no further road test or explanation from me to define it. However, if the dealer does not pass it on to Porsche then we have problems.

    Re: News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    Quote:
    Mick said:
    If as you say (RC) the plant still does not understand the problem, US owners need to call 800 327 7243 (PCNA Atlanta) and make sure they are aware of your individual case.

    My dealer can write elequent about this problem and needs no further road test or explanation from me to define it. However, if the dealer does not pass it on to Porsche then we have problems.




    I still think it has to do with certification and fuel consumption, something Porsche can't ignore, even on an individual basis.
    Why I think it doesn't require a hardware change? Because it works pretty well when you reset the fuzzy logic of the gearbox ECU.
    And yes, definetely, one SEVERE problem of this whole issue is the fact that MANY dealers don't pass this information from customers to Porsche. Many dealers (and Porsche mechanics) never drove a sporty SUV before and they also don't take customers seriously when they complaint about shifting/throttle response. My offer to the Porsche tech to testdrive our ML55 AMG has been declined with one weird argument: AMG is a TUNER, not a car manufacturer and I can't compare AMG to Porsche. Never heard such a BS.

    I almost finished my next letter to Porsche and this time it won't be as nice as last time.

    Dealer relations...

    Quote:
    RC said:
    definetely, one SEVERE problem of this whole issue is the fact that MANY dealers don't pass this information from customers to Porsche.



    You know full well Christian that this is cultural. Porsche views their dealer networks in the colonial model. Finished products go down and money flows up. They aren't the slightest bit interested in hearing back from their dealers about the products. And a dealer that gets upity will not find himself rewarded.

    This is one major reason I would never consider owning a Porsche dealership.

    Stephen

    Re: News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    Quote:
    My offer to the Porsche tech to testdrive our ML55 AMG has been declined with one weird argument: AMG is a TUNER, not a car manufacturer and I can't compare AMG to Porsche. Never heard such a BS



    neither have i.

    pride goes before a fall.

    very interesting story. keep us updated!

    Re: Dealer relations...

    Quote:
    FixedWing said:
    You know full well Christian that this is cultural. Porsche views their dealer networks in the colonial model. Finished products go down and money flows up. They aren't the slightest bit interested in hearing back from their dealers about the products. And a dealer that gets upity will not find himself rewarded.

    This is one major reason I would never consider owning a Porsche dealership.

    Stephen



    On the other hand, Porsche doesn't like it at all if customers address themselves directly to Porsche instead to the dealer. They usually ask the dealer why customer XYZ complaints to them directly and what it is all about. Sounds weird, right?!

    My experience with Porsche directly has been pretty positive but I'm afraid this time, regarding the Cayenne, I seem to bite on granite (this is how we say here in Germany). I suppose I have to raise the pressure a little bit.

    Re: Dealer relations...

    Quote:
    RC said:
    On the other hand, Porsche doesn't like it at all if customers address themselves directly to Porsche instead to the dealer. They usually ask the dealer why customer XYZ complaints to them directly and what it is all about. Sounds weird, right?!

    My experience with Porsche directly has been pretty positive but I'm afraid this time, regarding the Cayenne, I seem to bite on granite (this is how we say here in Germany). I suppose I have to raise the pressure a little bit.



    Agreed Christian.

    The roll of the dealer really is to insulate PAG from the customers. If the customer approaches PAG directly then that is considered a major failing of the system. As you say, the dealer (and possibly the distributor also) is called on the carpet to explain. Certainly it is not viewed as a valuable opportunity to get feedback on their products as most companies would.

    My experiences have not been good. PAG did stand behind their product but along the way I was made to feel like they were doing me a favour and every step was a fight. I only succeeded through tenacity. Sad really.

    My guess is that will be your experience with the Cayenne also.

    Stephen

    Re: Dealer relations...

    Quote:
    FixedWing said:
    My guess is that will be your experience with the Cayenne also



    Well, I threatened them once with one thing and I'm crazy enough to do it: I drive my Cayenne Turbo to Werk 1, put it in front of the front entrance, put the key in my pocket and let them call security or even the police. Of course, what co-incidence, the press will be notified about this. And I guess this is the worst press Porsche can ever get...a Cayenne Turbo customer doing something THAT desperate to get their attention. And I swear...I DO IT if my car doesn't get fixed. I hate such things but I have nothing to loose.

    Re: News regarding my throttle/shifting delay "problem"?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    My offer to the Porsche tech to testdrive our ML55 AMG has been declined with one weird argument: AMG is a TUNER, not a car manufacturer and I can't compare AMG to Porsche.



    Porsche really does have its head in the sand.

    If AMG is a tuner what do Porsche's X50, PCCB, Sport Chrono and suspension options classify them as? Maybe you need to find them an ML500 for them to use for their simple little minds to compare with. The ML500 can't be that far off the mark with the ML55 when we're talking about the hesitation issue. I know for a fact that even the 1999 ML430s didn't have the hesitation problem of the Cayenne.

    Brabus, Stillen, Lorinser, HPS, RENNtech and Kleemann are Mercedes tuners. Mercedes/AMG tuners at that. There's a reason I didn't go with them. Heck, Kleemann (USA) is a short drive away. I've driven their ML55k and it has incredible power (562Hp/718Nm). For that matter RENNtech had me seriously thinking about their suspension updates. But they're not a manufacturer. I've had tuned (engine and suspension) vehicles in the past and I don't really want to go there again.

    Wait a minute. I know Porsche has the ML55 in its booklet that it gives to the sales folks. I don't remember them noting that AMG was a tuner in there.

    I can deal with a someone making a mistake. I can work with someone who's trying to fix a mistake and not even owning up the fact that one was made. What I can't deal with is the arrogance that seems to be coming out of Porsche when we're dealing with a safety issue.

    You had me interested in the 997 RC. I was beginning to figure that I avoid driving my Cayenne around town enough that I could wait for Porsche's fix to the Cayenne. Then I could move the Cayenne over to my wife in year or so, and go for a 997 (w/ Sport Chrono of course). Now I just don't know.

    Re: Dealer relations...

    The way it works in the US is you call customer care they put you on hold and connect you with the local dealership. The customer care people are clueless regarding the issues and their job is to send you back to the dealer in a manner leading you to believe that Porsche is being proactive.They say "let me connect you with our technical specialist" and you are rerouted back to the dealership.

    I do not know if Porsche is sensing a huge issue heading its way but they better begin to pay attention. It is not only customer service; it is their products, their pricing and their product value. Porsche is awash in D-Marks but their client base is becoming increasingly restless.

    Just read some of the comments from the other boards which typically are dye-in-the wool Porsche fans. The comments are increasingly becoming negative and could lead to loss of market share. The only thing that is saving Porsche today is at this time they do not have any competition in their market segment. However this is changing and Porsche may find itself as did in the late and early ninties.

    Re: Dealer relations...

    NBERRY

    I am not sure when you last called, I was not put through to the dealer, they took the call, gave me a schedule for re-contact (them to me). They contacted the dealer, worked out an action plan. The dealer called me in for a face to face with the service manager who explained everthing to me.

    Call them again, I think they are learning

    Re: Dealer relations...

    Quote:
    RC said:
    And I swear...I DO IT if my car doesn't get fixed. I hate such things but I have nothing to loose.



    Christian, I had no idea that things had become this desperate...

    Stephen

    Re: Dealer relations...

    Wow! Go out of town a couple of days and look what happens!

    This is all very interesting and good that more people are becoming vocal about the hesitation problem.

    Regarding the ML55 being a "tuner" car, my wife has an X-5 3.0 that I have as comparison and it has no shifting problems at all. It is very smooth and follows closely RC's comments in comparing the ML55 to the Cayenne Turbo.

     
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