Crown

Board: Ferrari Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

     car_photo_422473_25.jpg


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    I love it


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    The car has been spotted in Barcelona whilst being used in what looks to be a brochure photoshoot session.

    www.youtube.com/watch

    1296998334072Spain.JPG


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Very, very interesting concept. On picture, those stylistical elements do seem a bit irritating but I would like to see the car in person as it must make quite some impression. In general, I am happy to see more unconventional concepts make it into production.

    Iain, very curious to hear your opinion about the car...


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Ferdie,

    I think the car is stunning in the metal. It is just so different to any other competitor in terms of it's styling and manages to project real presence without needing to resort to over exagerated design. The shape just flows extremely well and looks very elegant in more subtle metallic colours. For me it harks back to the coachbuilt era where luxury cars were more exclusive and daring in their design. There isn't any aspect of it's styling that I didn't like when I saw it.

    I'd order one in Grigio Ferro with cuoio aniline leather as it looks so elegant, stylish and tasteful in this combination.

     


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Who is the buyer of an ultra expensive AWD Ferrari station wagon

    For sure people who can afford this car, also have a garage full of other excellent cars which are even more appropriate for their intra-continental touring or their skiing holidays.

    So if it is going to used as a plaything why not a 458 for the younger or a 599 for the older and  richer Ferraristi

    In the end the FF could be Ferrari's proverbial answer to the question nobody asked.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    reginos:

    Who is the buyer of an ultra expensive AWD Ferrari station wagon


     

    You are thinking too rationally reginos. This car will be bought by individuals who want more exclusivity than a Range Rover Autobiography or a Cayenne turbo etc affords.

    The production volumes for this car are fairly low so Ferrari won't have any trouble finding buyers for it I'm sure. I have no doubt that it will find far more buyers than the 612 managed.


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK:
    reginos:

    Who is the buyer of an ultra expensive AWD Ferrari station wagon


     

    You are thinking too rationally reginos. This car will be bought by individuals who want more exclusivity than Range Rover Autobiography or a Cayenne turbo etc.

    The production volumes for this car are fairly low so Ferrari won't have any trouble finding buyers for it I'm sure. I have no doubt that it will find far more buyers than the 612 managed.

    What is the envisaged production? If it's, say 3-4 per week then it's a  feasible volume for the first 2-3 years at least, until the backlog of deposits is cleared.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK:

    I think the car is stunning in the metal. It is just so different to any other competitor in terms of it's styling and manages to project real presence without needing to resort to over exagerated design. The shape just flows extremely well and looks very elegant in more subtle metallic colours. For me it harks back to the coachbuilt era where luxury cars were more exclusive and daring in their design. There isn't any aspect of it's styling that I didn't like when I saw it.


    Thanks,

    I absolutely share your opinion and could even imagine that in a few decades, people will look at this particular model from Ferrari and note its advancement in technology and packaging.

    Their four-seater models have never sold in huge numbers and the FF´s individual concept differentiates it better from the remaining lineup and also makes it more attractive for emerging markets that do not have any fixed perception of the brand.


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Ferdie:
    ISUK:

    I think the car is stunning in the metal. It is just so different to any other competitor in terms of it's styling and manages to project real presence without needing to resort to over exagerated design. The shape just flows extremely well and looks very elegant in more subtle metallic colours. For me it harks back to the coachbuilt era where luxury cars were more exclusive and daring in their design. There isn't any aspect of it's styling that I didn't like when I saw it.


    Thanks,

    I absolutely share your opinion and could even imagine that in a few decades, people will look at this particular model from Ferrari and note its advancement in technology and packaging.

    Their four-seater models have never sold in huge numbers and the FF´s individual concept differentiates it better from the remaining lineup and also makes it more attractive for emerging markets that do not have any fixed perception of the brand.

    A new car concept however, is the easiest thing to copy by others. If it catches, Bentley for example, could create such a car in a few months' time, and consequently this miniscule Ferrari niche could be diluted. The more utility requirements are added to a car the more unattractive the prospect of Ferrari ownership.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    "Our 2+2 has always represented exactly 10% of volume" Luca Di M. They will easily hit that number with the FF. Also, i know many older guys who would go absolutely mad for such a design. My dealer already has 16 confirmed orders. That's a lot for such a low volume model Iain, A friend of mine was at the presentation and was blown away especially by the high level of luxury they managed to achieve with the FF.

    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    reginos:

    A new car concept however, is the easiest thing to copy by others. If it catches, Bentley for example, could create such a car in a few months' time, and consequently this miniscule Ferrari niche could be diluted. The more utility requirements are added to a car the more unattractive the prospect of Ferrari ownership.


    A new concept is far more difficult to copy than an existing one. In my opinion, the technological advancements that went into the FF model enabled the overall product, the unique AWD system, a normally aspirated yet powerfull V12 and transaxle drivetrain to the rear wheels are not instantly available to Bentley, even within the entire VAG group. Furthermore, any of these concepts take about three years to be developed.


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Ferdie:
    reginos:

    A new car concept however, is the easiest thing to copy by others. If it catches, Bentley for example, could create such a car in a few months' time, and consequently this miniscule Ferrari niche could be diluted. The more utility requirements are added to a car the more unattractive the prospect of Ferrari ownership.


    A new concept is far more difficult to copy than an existing one. In my opinion, the technological advancements that went into the FF model enabled the overall product, the unique AWD system, a normally aspirated yet powerfull V12 and transaxle drivetrain to the rear wheels are not instantly available to Bentley, even within the entire VAG group. Furthermore, any of these concepts take about three years to be developed.

    I wasn't thinking of identical technical solutions but rather the creation of the same concept of vehicle using either existing or soon to be available hardware within the VW Group.

    Lamborghini could also be a candidate for such a car for those who like Italian flavour.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    reginos,

    I'd guestimate the target output to be in the region of 10 - 15 cars per week. Your comments about other manufacturers emulating the design if it's a success are true but will not harm FF sales. At this end of the market purchase cost is almost irrelevant to the majority of target buyers, exclusivity is the attraction. These cars will sit alongside several others in owners garages but will hopefully enjoy more usage as they incorporate a lot of the luxury and tech most buyers will want in a daily driver.

    A question was posed on another Ferrari owners forum on an FF post asking if enthusiasts have stereotyped Ferrari models nowadays following the adverse online reaction to the initial photo's of the new car. I answered it with the following post -

    "The answer to that IMHO is yes, most definately. Look through the back catalogue during Enzo's time and it's clear that the comany was always moving forward, experimenting with new ideas and designs and never stood still. It seems many "enthusiasts" have favourite time periods from the company's history and have chosen to place a marker in the sand at those points as to what constitutes a Ferrari to them personally.

    The world has moved on though and with the rapid advances in technology it's now extremely hard for company's like Ferrari to differentiate their products on performance alone as so many cars are now capable of performance stats that only 10 years ago would have been the preserve of true supercars. They have taken a lot of flak for every new model released over the last 3 or 4 years with forum users demanding to know why cars like the Nissan GTR offer astonishing performance for a fraction of the cost of a car like the 458. This isn't anything new either. The Daytona wasn't well received initially due to the much more technologically advanced Miura, the Dino was panned for not being a true Ferrari, the 308GT4 berated for it's Bertone styling, the Mondial for being a compromised 2+2. All of these were signed off by Enzo so comments about him turning in his grave over the direction of the latest models do make me laugh I have to admit. I believe he'd be very proud of the technology and build quality in these cars which is simply leagues ahead of where things were when he died.

    Post Enzo we've had the 348 which was slated for being a lazy replacement of the 328, the 550 being attacked for being a Toyota Supra clone, the 360 ridiculed for having a jelly mould design etc etc.

    When Ferrari don't include up to date ICE or media units in their GT cars there are detractors waiting to slate them. When they do include them  there are others who say the world is about to stop spinning because Ferrari are more concerned about gadgets than performance etc etc. As history has shown us time and time again they will never please everyone when launching a new car as the move forward often upsets those who dislike change. Funnily enough as the cars start to age they become far more accepted and appreciated."

     

     


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Very good points in your answer and a good historical rundown of Ferrari models critique!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    reginos:
    Ferdie:

    A new concept is far more difficult to copy than an existing one. In my opinion, the technological advancements that went into the FF model enabled the overall product, the unique AWD system, a normally aspirated yet powerfull V12 and transaxle drivetrain to the rear wheels are not instantly available to Bentley, even within the entire VAG group. Furthermore, any of these concepts take about three years to be developed.

    I wasn't thinking of identical technical solutions but rather the creation of the same concept of vehicle using either existing or soon to be available hardware within the VW Group.


    Your consideration is quite reasonable but on the one hand Ferrari is much more than just a packaging concept, as Iain perfectly pointed out, and those technical ingredients one of the strong points that differentiate them to their competitors, on the other rivals would catch up even faster if the car would´ve been featured with a more common layout. As I said above, the time gap to competitors should be at least two to three years due to all variations of development that went into this car.

    The Mercedes CLS has been copied by varies other brands as well but it took other manufacturers the reported time to come up with own models. Smiley


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Iain makes excellent points here... Ferrari has also had a  long tradition of making cars that are unashamedly road cars, with a balance of elegance, unique coachwork,  roadworthiness, and performance that appeals to enthusiasts less interested in NUR-times (or who have other cars that fill this niche).   The quite amusing emphasis on the promo. FF cars cavorting in the snow makes this road-car point quite well.  Smiley


    --

    2010 Audi S5,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Interesting article from someone who saw the car :

    axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/2011/02/axis-gets-look-at-ferrari-ff.html


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Ziggy:

    Interesting article from someone who saw the car :

    axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/2011/02/axis-gets-look-at-ferrari-ff.html


    Nice read.

    That white 997TT next to all those SUV´s and snow really shows how Porsche is a DD, Ferrari is doing the same with FF Smiley

    J.Seven


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Ferrari FF in action - new photos released http://www.worldcarfans.com/111020730635/ferrari-ff-in-action---new-photos-released

    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    koko:
    Ferrari FF in action - new photos released http://www.worldcarfans.com/111020730635/ferrari-ff-in-action---new-photos-released

    Thanks for the link.

    It looks like a version of the Panamera in this picture!

    ff.jpg


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

     Ferrari designed cars will not flop in the market place as long as they are quality built. They could introduce a box and it will sell because it is very limited production, has the Ferrari cache and  rich have money.

    Personally, I hated the styling of the 599 and 612. Seeing the happy face driving the down the street caused me to shake my head and ask WTF?


    --

     


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    I never liked the 612! I wasn't that crazy for the 599 cause somehow it reminded of the 612. But I have to say that the 599 was one hell of a car especially once you start spending time behind the wheel.

    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK:

    The car has been spotted in Barcelona whilst being used in what looks to be a brochure photoshoot session.

    www.youtube.com/watch

    1296998334072Spain.JPG

    Now, this picture is very nice SmileySmiley


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK:

    Ferdie,

    I'd order one in Grigio Ferro with cuoio aniline leather as it looks so elegant, stylish and tasteful in this combination.

     

    SmileySmileySmileySmiley

    Woow, congrats Iain. Smiley


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    I meant if I were to order one Onur, not that I have ordered one


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    I just read this hilarious post by member bdelp over on F chat and just had to post it here. It's so true and applicable to many forums about many sports cars....

    "If Ferrari, Lotus, and McLaren listened to what people on Fchat wanted in a super car, they'd go out of business.

    If people on Fchat built the perfect super car it would

    Look like a 308 or 355 or a some combination of the two (of which there would still be arguments) and still stick to the ground at 280 MPH like glue
    Weigh less than a Caterham super 7
    Be smaller than a Lotus Europa yet comfortably fit a 6 foot 5 inch 300 lb man
    Be built 100% out of Carbon Fibre and Titanium
    Have a motor twice as powerful as the Bugatti Veyron (but without turbos)
    Have no electronics of anykind
    Have a 6 speed manual gearbox but have a clutch that never wears out
    Be offered only in Red and Black
    Cost the same as a 308
    Be sold for 20 grand under MSRP
    Have a 20 year warranty
    Have steel brakes that perform like CCB's but cost as much as a Honda's brakes would to replace.
    Have an exhaust sound like a combination of an F1 car, an Enzo an F40 placed side by side
    Be restricted to only a few hundred examples made a year --but have no waiting lists
    Have a written guaranteed resale value that's 20% higher than they bought it."

     


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Wonderful and Masterful summary.

    Just got an invitation to the Global Launch Feb 22 in Maranello, might just check out my air miles at American !

     


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

     "If had asked customers what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." -- Henry Ford.


    --

    "We all love the music. What we hope is that the music loves us." -- Tom Waits


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK:

    Look like a 308 or 355 or a some combination of the two (of which there would still be arguments) and still stick to the ground at 280 MPH like glue
    Weigh less than a Caterham super 7
    Be smaller than a Lotus Europa yet comfortably fit a 6 foot 5 inch 300 lb man
    Be built 100% out of Carbon Fibre and Titanium
    Have a motor twice as powerful as the Bugatti Veyron (but without turbos)
    Have no electronics of anykind
    Have a 6 speed manual gearbox but have a clutch that never wears out
    Be offered only in Red and Black
    Cost the same as a 308
    Be sold for 20 grand under MSRP
    Have a 20 year warranty
    Have steel brakes that perform like CCB's but cost as much as a Honda's brakes would to replace.
    Have an exhaust sound like a combination of an F1 car, an Enzo an F40 placed side by side
    Be restricted to only a few hundred examples made a year --but have no waiting lists
    Have a written guaranteed resale value that's 20% higher than they bought it." 


    Give me one of these. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 4/24/18 8:59 PM
    Grant
    283866 4502
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 4/24/18 2:49 PM
    Whoopsy
    270857 1816
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 4/24/18 11:22 PM
    Ferdie
     
     
     
     
     
    172160 985
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 4/26/18 12:56 PM
    lexs4
    101426 1798
    Porsche Sticky 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) 4/25/18 7:21 AM
    RCA
    80847 1130
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/26/18 12:28 PM
    Italo
    24315 1151
    Porsche 918 latest news Thread Closed 11/6/17 10:43 AM
    RCA
    553977 5574
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS 1/9/18 1:43 PM
    Kimi
    461839 5816
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 4/3/18 9:15 AM
    KresoF1
    450916 4254
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 3/11/18 5:44 PM
    RCA
    249765 2560
    Porsche Cayman GT4 12/30/17 11:07 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    217100 2482
    Porsche 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip Thread Closed 7/3/17 2:04 PM
    RCA
    177389 1699
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S 1/23/18 12:27 AM
    RCA
    167308 1074
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 3/31/18 10:47 PM
    watt
    147281 1495
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 4/24/18 1:41 PM
    DJM48
    142215 2937
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 12/29/17 8:31 AM
    dreamcar
    113550 692
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 4/26/18 10:49 AM
    RCA
    110877 2103
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 1/6/18 10:41 PM
    Wonderbar
    109179 1284
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 12/5/17 3:29 PM
    RCA
    89406 765
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 4/20/18 6:04 PM
    noone1
    84317 869
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 718 Boxster (2016) 10/20/17 11:17 AM
    DaveGordon
    82773 732
    McLaren F1 8/23/17 11:10 AM
    Carlos from SpainM
    51175 202
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 3/30/18 9:09 AM
    TB993tt
    48245 640
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 4/23/18 2:30 AM
    Targa Tim
    46686 726
    Porsche UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne 2/6/18 2:13 PM
    RCA
    42859 423
    Lambo Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring? 11/7/17 12:30 AM
    kingjr9000
    37011 852
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/29/17 12:27 PM
    DJM48
    31365 471
    AMG AMG GT R 1/26/18 7:19 AM
    GoHardGT3RS
    31164 597
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    31030 1122
    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/12/18 2:01 PM
    crayphile
    28319 427
    345 items found, displaying 1 to 30.