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    135i - a potential M3 killer?

    Given all the not-so-pleasant review of the M3, do you think that perhaps a 135i coupe is a better buy? Afterall, we have seen how quick the 335i can be with just ECU reflash. So, with the hydrolic steering wheel, electronic LSD (ok, not sure about this one), proper Brembos, and lighter weight, will this car be the M3 killer? I was very keen on the M3, but after reading everything, I don't think I will order one anymore. I am however very keen on the 135i. What do you think?

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    BTW, 135i front brakes are 338x26mm with 6calipers and rears are 324x22mm with 4calipers BUT, discs are NOT drilled.

    M3 brakes are indeed with floating single piston caliper but, are way bigger in size and with drilled discs(so called compound discs); fronts 360x30mm and rears 350x24mm...

    BTW, all German auto press drive impressions about new M3 so far(AMS, AZ, Auto Bild and Sport Auto) are very positive.

    It seems to me that only UK based auto press do not like new M3(even report in one Italian auto mag is very positive one)...

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    I am still not convince about the M3. Btw, I already have a M3 on order, what I need to decide is whether to go ahead with it or cancel it and order a 135i instead.

    As for the brakes, it's easy enough to replace the rotors of the 135i with bigger ones, no? Surely a 6 piston Brembo is better than the M3's single piston floating caliper brakes?

    So other than the brakes, what other downside do you see of the 135i?

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    New electronic LSD is no match for proper advanced LSD like M-Diff on M3.
    One of my friends in Slovenia tuned his 335i and now he is experiencing some sort of problems. Engine temperature is way too high at high speed(more then 240km/h), he did not have that problems with original ECU. Fuel consumption is higher as well. ECU come form very respected BMW tuning company from Germany...

    Just a hint... If you look at Alpina B3 Biturbo you can see that just changing a ECU is not enough to get proper power. Alipna engine is pretty revised and is producing 360hp/500Nm. According to BMW and Alipna technical stuff this is upper limit for Mitsubishi small turbos that are used on 335i or Alpina B3 Biturbo engine.
    BUT, Alipna enigne use different Mahle's pistons and is reinforced in some other area's....

    Remember RC's story about 997 Turbo and its engine? Almost the same story is about 335i...

    Of course, it is your car and your money.
    BTW, my friend get back the original ECU and he is now happy again with his 335i.

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    I have a deposit on a 135i. In the thin air of Denver a n/a engine like M3's loses over 20% of its power & torque while turbo motor of 135i loses none (with a bit additional lag). Cheap tuning (under $2k) is available for 400hp and 400ft-lbs which is WAY more than M3 power and torque at altitude and the 1er is lighter. You can buy a Quaife LSD for the 135i for around $1,500 plus install (yes, electronic solutions to LSD suck!).

    I also hear that there will need to be additional oil cooling for the 3L TT motor (335's are overheating even in stock configuration). My understanding is that with proper oil cooling, the 3L TT motor should be able to sustain the tuned output (400hp/400 ft-lbs), but these are new cars - we'll have to see.

    But even totally stock in Denver, a 135i will be faster (in a straight line) than an E92 M3 (300hp and 320ft-lbs @ 1,400rpm and 3,250 lbs weight for 135i vs 325hp and 240 ft-lbs @ 5,000 rpm with 3,500 lbs for M3) and cost only 60% as much.

    Although Kreso has assured me my worries are unfounded, all of my additional research shows that the 135i will have electric power steering though (please see .pdf attachment above of German dealer sheet which I believe shows electric PS for all 1er models - please correct me if my reading of the German is wrong).

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    Your worries indeed seem to be well founded, because the electro-steering is indeed listed as standard. Could be a mistake though.

    And Kreso, while you are correct about the engines overheating, I don't think Americans have much to worry about.

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    The 135i will indeed be a very fierce little car but IMO a bit too expensive. It is a good option if you're looking for something fresh and new but if you're purely after the M experience I recommend you to get yourself a slightly used M3.

    That is IMO the best buy if you're after the ultimate driving experience and now when the 335i is around and the E90 M3 will shortly be landing on showroom floors around the world you can get a pretty good deal at a well treated E46 M3.

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    Quote:
    luwalira said:I recommend you to get yourself a slightly used M3.

    That is IMO the best buy if you're after the ultimate driving experience and now when the 335i is around and the E90 M3 will shortly be landing on showroom floors around the world you can get a pretty good deal at a well treated E46 M3.


    Well, maybe you're right, but I'm thinking that a 135i (with the TT motor) would be much faster up here in the thin air of high altitude.

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    Quote:
    WAY said:
    Given all the not-so-pleasant review of the M3, do you think that perhaps a 135i coupe is a better buy? Afterall, we have seen how quick the 335i can be with just ECU reflash. So, with the hydrolic steering wheel, electronic LSD (ok, not sure about this one), proper Brembos, and lighter weight, will this car be the M3 killer? I was very keen on the M3, but after reading everything, I don't think I will order one anymore. I am however very keen on the 135i. What do you think?



    135i seems to have *great* potential. Smaller, lighter and with high levels of torque are very promising.

    Do you really need Brembo replacements? I would have thought only necessary only after doing some major downhill mountain run or multiple laps at the track and then only if you found stock didn't cope.. You'd have to drive according to your intended style to know..

    btw: mentions in posts about 335i overheating? It won over WRX's at Bathurst 12hr race here http://www.bathurstmotorfestival.com.au/home.asp and "only" problems were need to stop & reset ABS every now and then from it's unaccustomed demands.

    I could only think that 135i would at least give you 90% performance of M3 for 50% of price!

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    Quote:
    alexm said:
    Quote:
    WAY said:
    Given all the not-so-pleasant review of the M3, do you think that perhaps a 135i coupe is a better buy? Afterall, we have seen how quick the 335i can be with just ECU reflash. So, with the hydrolic steering wheel, electronic LSD (ok, not sure about this one), proper Brembos, and lighter weight, will this car be the M3 killer? I was very keen on the M3, but after reading everything, I don't think I will order one anymore. I am however very keen on the 135i. What do you think?



    135i seems to have *great* potential. Smaller, lighter and with high levels of torque are very promising.



    The 135i actually doesn't have a big weight advantage compared with the 335i coupe. The 135i is only 60kg lighter.

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    Quote:
    luwalira said:The 135i actually doesn't have a big weight advantage compared with the 335i coupe. The 135i is only 60kg lighter.


    True, but with a Porsche you'd pay alot for a smaller weight loss (GT3RS is only 20k lighter than GT3)

    Also, the 135i is smaller than 3 series and has a shorter wheelbase, so it should be considerably more nimble...

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    luwalira said:The 135i actually doesn't have a big weight advantage compared with the 335i coupe. The 135i is only 60kg lighter.


    True, but with a Porsche you'd pay alot for a smaller weight loss (GT3RS is only 20k lighter than GT3)

    Also, the 135i is smaller than 3 series and has a shorter wheelbase, so it should be considerably more nimble...


    I agree with you Grant, the 135i is potentialy a "giant-killer".

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    Quote:
    964C2 said:I agree with you Grant, the 135i is potentialy a "giant-killer".


    Well, I don't have any illusions that it's going to be a track monster or anything - still too heavy. But, I think it could be a very fun daily drive with lots of power in the thin air of the mountains here for a reasonable price.

    Also, BMW gives 7% discount for European Delivery (unlike Porsche which charges $4k extra), so might be a nice way to get in a few laps at the Nurburgring without the risk of being turned away in a rental car...

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    luwalira said:The 135i actually doesn't have a big weight advantage compared with the 335i coupe. The 135i is only 60kg lighter.


    True, but with a Porsche you'd pay alot for a smaller weight loss (GT3RS is only 20k lighter than GT3)

    Also, the 135i is smaller than 3 series and has a shorter wheelbase, so it should be considerably more nimble...



    The GT3 and GTRS is a different story because it's basically the same car with a few differences while as the 135i and the 335i are completely different car.

    Yes, 60kg, smaller dimensions and smaller wheelbase does make a difference together. I just wanted to point out that the weight difference between the 153i and the 335i isn't as big as one perceive it to be.

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    Quote:
    luwalira said:I just wanted to point out that the weight difference between the 153i and the 335i isn't as big as one perceive it to be.


    Yes, it's unfortunate, but BMW has found a way to make small cars VERY heavy. Even the old Z3 M Coupe & Roadster were well over 3,000 lbs and they are tiny. They must use lead in the frames or something...

    Re: 135i - a potential M3 killer?

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    luwalira said:I just wanted to point out that the weight difference between the 153i and the 335i isn't as big as one perceive it to be.


    Yes, it's unfortunate, but BMW has found a way to make small cars VERY heavy. Even the old Z3 M Coupe & Roadster were well over 3,000 lbs and they are tiny. They must use lead in the frames or something...



    Yes agreed.. and same with MB as well with the impressive hardware in the new C63 seemingly contributing to it's eye opening 1700+kg for a "small" car.

     
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