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    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Spyderidol:
    Doc- I know exactly what you mean!


    He was promised a Mercedes-Benz dealership near his home town, when he retires from racing.

    That was the rumour in the paddock.


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Compare Glock's times to Trulli's times and you will see that Glock was faster in last lap than Trulli in same car with same tyres. And much faster in last 3 laps than Trulli.

    If Glock would change tyres like others, than he wouldn't be near to Hamilton. So if he wanted to give victory to Hamilton, why he simpley didn't go to pits like everyone else ?


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Lets face it Hamilton should have won the championship last year, look at that 2007 last race gearbox problem, suspicious or what, considering the FIA ruling on the spy scandal!

    Hamilton has also done a brilliant job this year & so has Massa, both were equally deserving, I'm gutted for Massa, but honestly believe Hamilton fully 100% deserves the win.

     After two successful years at the head of the championships all the way through, no one can doubt his ability. All the drivers have had good & bad luck this year, many have also suffered at the hands of some bad calls by the stewards that threatened to decide the championships in the penalty arena rather than on track!But it all came good in the end, but boy what a close call!

    Lets give both guy's the respect  due.... well done Lewis Hamilton youngest ever world champion, WOWSmiley, well done Massa, just 1 point away from the top spot means he was pretty much the winner too.Smiley


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Shakal:

    Compare Glock's times to Trulli's times and you will see that Glock was faster in last lap than Trulli in same car with same tyres. And much faster in last 3 laps than Trulli.

    If Glock would change tyres like others, than he wouldn't be near to Hamilton. So if he wanted to give victory to Hamilton, why he simpley didn't go to pits like everyone else ?

    Shakal, when I look at the Live Timing archives on F1.com, I see that Trulli is 2 seconds faster than Glock on the last sector. Perhaps Glock wasnt slower relative to Trulli on the whole lap - (I wish more had been on regulars/slicks, that would make it easier to see) but what really strikes me, is the way he just pulls over and lets Vettel and Hamilton pass him. 

    If he had engine problems I would get it, but it just seemed odd.

    Comments? 


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Dr.Phil is right, something WAS odd, as the driving line was quite dry where Hamilton did pass.

    Maybe his slicks were too cold and didn't work well, or he was overly fair and didn't want to be the bad guy in the championship.



    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Eunice:

    Dr.Phil is right, something WAS odd, as the driving line was quite dry where Hamilton did pass.

    Maybe his slicks were too cold and didn't work well, or he was overly fair and didn't want to be the bad guy in the championship.


    Yes, that was one of my thoughts as well. I think Glock may inadvertently have settled the championship.

    I can see no reason why he would cheat, tank or deliver the championship to LH. That would be very corupt, and we all know corruption does not exist in F1....erm...

    Hehe, seriously - I dont think he tanked it at all - it would have been the stupidest way of doing so if that were the case.

     Just a strange, strange move in that last corner.


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    You can read Glock's view of things, for whatever is worth.

    After all, we know more than him about him!

    http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=44511


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Shakal:

    Compare Glock's times to Trulli's times and you will see that Glock was faster in last lap than Trulli in same car with same tyres. And much faster in last 3 laps than Trulli.

    If Glock would change tyres like others, than he wouldn't be near to Hamilton. So if he wanted to give victory to Hamilton, why he simpley didn't go to pits like everyone else ?

    Actually looking at the overall lap time for Trulli & Glock on lap 71 they had almost identical times at 1:44.8

    http://www.fia.com/brazilgp/documents/BRZ_08_Race_Lap_Analysis.pdf

    Glock was losing traction over that last sector which is UPHILL. I let you discuss what happens to water when it rains on a track when you are going uphill. Smiley

    Even Hamilton was struggling with the car on the so called dry line on that last lap with the correct tyres (if you watched the cockpit view).

    As Shakal says if it is a conspiracy then Glock would have just pitted.


    --
    2008 987S Cobalt Blue/Black.

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    reginos:
    gangajas:
    reginos:

    This is the Mclaren way though; equal status.

    Equal status, lol. Some McLaren fans are saying in other forums that McLaren should sack Kovachello and offer Vettel a seat, if the German is smart he will never go to McLaren.

    So Alonso's complaint shouldn't be that he wasn't treated equally. He was treated equally but not given preference as the #1 driver.

    Last year McLaren "weren't racing Kimi, we (that is Dennis and Hamilton) were racing Fernando (the miserable Iberian, as the The Times F1 correspondent called him)". That made them lose the championship.

    Talking about other things, here is the last lap of the "Rainmaster"/"Senna reincarnated" in the Brazilian GP:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mFjCp1gX8E

    I'm far from impressed.


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    gangajas:
    reginos:
    gangajas:
    reginos:

    This is the Mclaren way though; equal status.

    Equal status, lol. Some McLaren fans are saying in other forums that McLaren should sack Kovachello and offer Vettel a seat, if the German is smart he will never go to McLaren.

    So Alonso's complaint shouldn't be that he wasn't treated equally. He was treated equally but not given preference as the #1 driver.

    Last year McLaren "weren't racing Kimi, we (that is Dennis and Hamilton) were racing Fernando (the miserable Iberian, as the The Times F1 correspondent called him)". That made them lose the championship.

    Talking about other things, here is the last lap of the "Rainmaster"/"Senna reincarnated" in the Brazilian GP:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mFjCp1gX8E

    I'm far from impressed.

    You are a devoted fan of Alonso but this should not blind your view of things.

    This year it was Hamilton vs Massa and Hamilton managed to beat his inferior, IMO, opponent at the last race in spite of all the penalties imposed on him. He is the WDChampion and we must accept it.

    What happened in 2007 is not relevant to this year. Probably, if Alonso was given #1 status at McLaren in 2007 a la Ferrari, he would have won the title easily.

    However, he didn't negotiate this status before getting into contract and he went in knowing that he wasn't the #1 driver. Perhaps he underestimated the "black rookie".

    Hamilton proved too strong for Alonso and ended up with equal wins and points and both lost. If Alonso's team mate was Fisichella or Barichello or Kovalainen, Alonso would have overwhelmed them. Hamilton whether we like it or not had the measure of Alonso last year.

    This does not reduce Alonso as a driver and a worthy double champion but IMO it elevates Hamilton.


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    gangajas:
    reginos:
    gangajas:
    reginos:

    This is the Mclaren way though; equal status.

    Equal status, lol. Some McLaren fans are saying in other forums that McLaren should sack Kovachello and offer Vettel a seat, if the German is smart he will never go to McLaren.

    So Alonso's complaint shouldn't be that he wasn't treated equally. He was treated equally but not given preference as the #1 driver.

    Talking about other things, here is the last lap of the "Rainmaster"/"Senna reincarnated" in the Brazilian GP:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mFjCp1gX8E

    I'm far from impressed.

    You are far from impressed with anything which is related to Hamilton, doesn't metter if we talk about his driving, his car, his girlfriend.... everything is bad which is related to him Smiley Interesting is, I am Hamilton's fan, but I was happy for Alonso to finnish on podium again and I really hope that next year he will fight for Championship. Because he is top driver and it would be nice to see him in battle too.

    This year he was the fastest on wet races, in Interlagos he ran with less downforce than others, which was seen in all race. In sector 2 which is slow he was slower than others, but in sector 3 he was the fastest. And if he ran with less downforce means he had even less traction in wet than in dry. 



    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    YorkshireExpat:

    Glock was losing traction over that last sector which is UPHILL. I let you discuss what happens to water when it rains on a track when you are going uphill. Smiley

    Is that an attempt at being superior/arrogant on your part?

    I ask because it´s so easy to mistake an ironic remark for a misplaced, demeaning one.

    From what I could see, the track looked bone dry on the stretch where Glock was passed by  Vettel and LH.

    Or do you see water on that particular stretch of asphalt? Perhaps water running downwards anywhere, like you suggest? I may read the images from Youtube incorrectly.  

    Glock drove submissively, as if he was sorry for being in the way. This strikes me as odd.

     Conspiracy? I dont think so. I simply question the move/actions by Glock. 

    The season is over. LH is champion. That´s that. However, I still would like to understand what happened in those crucial moments that determinded the outcome of an F1 season that I have been following closely.

    Hence these questions. Hope you dont mind.


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Dr. Phil:
    Shakal:

    Compare Glock's times to Trulli's times and you will see that Glock was faster in last lap than Trulli in same car with same tyres. And much faster in last 3 laps than Trulli.

    If Glock would change tyres like others, than he wouldn't be near to Hamilton. So if he wanted to give victory to Hamilton, why he simpley didn't go to pits like everyone else ?

    Shakal, when I look at the Live Timing archives on F1.com, I see that Trulli is 2 seconds faster than Glock on the last sector. Perhaps Glock wasnt slower relative to Trulli on the whole lap - (I wish more had been on regulars/slicks, that would make it easier to see) but what really strikes me, is the way he just pulls over and lets Vettel and Hamilton pass him. 

    If he had engine problems I would get it, but it just seemed odd.

    Comments? 

    Doc: Glock was overtaken by 2 drivers in last sector and in last corner he didn't go on race line, but outside, because inside was Hamilton. And Hamilton caugt Glock at the end of 2nd sector, in third sector Hamilton was already in front of him. And if Trulli was 2 seconds faster than Glock in last sector, that means Glock was more than 2 seconds faster than Trulli in first and second sector and at the end of second sector he was cought by Hamilton and overtaken by Vettel.

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

     

    This is what Glock himself had to say:

    "I was on dry tyres at the end of the race when it was raining quite badly and it was just impossible on the last lap,” explained Glock.

    I was fighting as hard as I could but it was so difficult to just keep the car on the track and I lost positions right at the end of the lap.

    “Finishing in the top six is a decent result for me because I'd been struggling with the car earlier in the weekend but we were very close to fourth place so I am a bit disappointed.”

    We must give some credibility to the man and believe him.


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Q&A with Timo Glock:

    (copy paste from autosport)

    Q. How did the rain at the end of the race affect your strategy?

    Timo Glock: In the final laps we saw that we had the opportunity to make up some places due to the rain. It started to rain lightly on parts of the circuit with around six laps to go and at that stage everyone was on dry tyres.

    We took the decision to stay out on dry tyres even though the intensity of the rain was increasing we were sure we could make up positions when the other cars pitted for wet weather tyres and because it was only on the last couple of laps that the wet tyre was superior. We stayed out and I was up to fourth but it was not easy in those conditions in the last laps.

    Q. What was it like in wet conditions with dry tyres?

    TG: It was not so bad until the final lap when the rain really began to come down very heavily and it was just impossible. It was so difficult to just keep the car on the track because it was very wet and the car was basically undriveable in those conditions. I was sliding everywhere, with absolutely no grip at all.

    Q. Were you taking it easy on the final lap?

    TG: Absolutely not! It was completely the opposite; the final lap was one of the hardest laps I have done in Formula 1 because there was no grip at all and on dry tyres it was almost impossible to keep the car on track. I was pushing really hard to keep fourth place and if you look at the lap times I was actually faster than Jarno on the final lap and he was the only other car on dry tyres at that stage.

    Q. Was it the right decision to stay on dry tyres?

    TG: Absolutely no doubt about it. We were running seventh before the rain came and we would have probably finished there if it had been totally dry. Instead we finished sixth so that shows the strategy was the right one.

    Q. Did you realise the significance of Lewis Hamilton fighting with you on the final lap?

    TG: To be honest I was racing for Toyota and my place which is the correct thing to do. I didn't even know that Lewis was directly behind me. The team told me that Sebastian Vettel was catching me and they kept me updated on his position but I was concentrating so hard on keeping the car on the track. I didn't even know that Lewis had overtaken me until after the race. I was passed by three or four cars on the final lap and it was not easy to keep track of what was going on.


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Shakal:

     I was happy for Alonso to finnish on podium again and I really hope that next year he will fight for Championship. Because he is top driver and it would be nice to see him in battle too.

    To be honest I didn't like Alonso at all before he went to McLaren, but one year suffering Ron Dennis and the English press was enough to change my mind about him.

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Crazy ending that's for sure...

    :)

    
    





    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Shakal:

    Q. Did you realise the significance of Lewis Hamilton fighting with you on the final lap?

    TG: To be honest I was racing for Toyota and my place which is the correct thing to do. I didn't even know that Lewis was directly behind me. The team told me that Sebastian Vettel was catching me and they kept me updated on his position but I was concentrating so hard on keeping the car on the track. I didn't even know that Lewis had overtaken me until after the race. I was passed by three or four cars on the final lap and it was not easy to keep track of what was going on.

    OK, in 2007 he became the GP2 champion, and now in F1 he couldn´t keep track of what was going on? Erm...

    I realize that conditions on the track were tough - but the confusion part sounds odd.

    I would think his job description is pretty straight-forward:

    1) Win races

    2) Passing someone = Good.

    3) Getting passed = bad.

    I am more and more convinced that he accidentally drove like he had been blue-flagged, because he was afraid of getting caught in the middle of the championship battle, and sadly by doing so, he ended up doing exactly that.

    Poor chap - just trying to finish the last race of the season and get some rest - and now he is the bad guy to a lot of Massa fans.



    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    porkernut:

    Lets face it Hamilton should have won the championship last year, look at that 2007 last race gearbox problem, suspicious or what, considering the FIA ruling on the spy scandal!


    Yeah, and he should have won if it wasn't for that damned wheel that fell off his car when McLaren made the stupid decision to leave him out there instead of bringing him to repair it and taking the points for 3rd or 4th instead of a DNF. Yep, it wasn't for that he would have won.


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Dr. Phil:
    Eunice:

    Dr.Phil is right, something WAS odd, as the driving line was quite dry where Hamilton did pass.

    Maybe his slicks were too cold and didn't work well, or he was overly fair and didn't want to be the bad guy in the championship.


    Yes, that was one of my thoughts as well. I think Glock may inadvertently have settled the championship.

    I can see no reason why he would cheat, tank or deliver the championship to LH. That would be very corupt, and we all know corruption does not exist in F1....erm...

    Hehe, seriously - I dont think he tanked it at all - it would have been the stupidest way of doing so if that were the case.

     Just a strange, strange move in that last corner.

    Glock's job is to get points for Toyota. Teams are awarded money based on the amount of points they get at the end of the season. If, and that's only an "if", he made a personal decision to get out of the way and subsequently receive less points for his team in the process, he should be fired. I doubt Glock would have made that decision on his own for that reason.

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    OK... I know some of the guys on here aren't too keen on Lewis.. but think this interview he did for the BBC yesterday was really good.. OK you might argue scripted etc. but whatever you think about his driving, arrogance or whatever if he can continue to come cross like this I think he's going to do the sport the world of good... (and yes I'm a fan)

    Lewis Interview

    Also think Massa did himself pround the way he reacted to the situation too. Despite some of the calls during the year I think the final outcome and the people involved is great for the sport - with all the good drivers in the ranks, and the rule changes for next year the 2009 season has the makings of a good one... my wildcard .. Button in the Honda.. they gave up on the 2008 car months ago, putting all their efforts into 2009, and with Brawn at the helm and Button, who despite appearences isn't a half bad driver, and possibly Bruno Senna (although I still think Barichellos got some mileage left in him) too this could be a team on the up....


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    WOW! What a thrilling race! I really enjoyed the drama! Rain just before the start really mixed things up nicely. Right down to the last corner of the last lap. We couldn't have asked for a more exciting climax to the season. I really felt for Massa and his family - fate was so cruel when they started celebrating after he took the chequered flag and Lewis (at that time) was still in 6th place. And then to have the drivers title go back to Lewis on the last corner. What a thrilling finish! Massa really gained a lot of respect for the dignified way he handled the loss of the drivers championship despite winning the GP race. He really looked like the least happy race winner I have ever seen. As for Lewis, he is IMO a deserving champion. He did a superb job all through the season and did just what he had to do to win the WDC title. Congratulations to him! It's been a great season with a great finish. I am looking forward to next year.

    Soon, we'll find out which team Alonso will drive for. I think he will stay at Renault. Hopefully, Renault will be strong next year - I think it's been great to see Alonso competing for wins in the last part of the season. Like him or not, Alonso is a truly great driver - one of the best ever IMHO - so, just based on his talent, I want to see a great driver like him in a competitive car fighting for the championship. Most of 2008, Alonso was just being wasted in an uncompetitive car - which is a tragedy.

    Next year could be even more exciting with Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, Renault and Toyota all very strong. I think Vettel could be much less competitive in a Red Bull (powered by Renault) rather than a Toro Rosso (powered by Ferrari).

    I feel sorry that great teams like Honda and Williams are struggling. Hopefully they can get their act together next year.

     


    --
    997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection: I love this car!!!

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Thought you might find this interesting (or at least funny while thinking how this season just ended):






    --

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    Easy,

    I agree with you. Massa family celebration and sorrow the moment after was epic indeed...

    OT-excellent idea about Motor Sports board!


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    LOL! Fantastic video!

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    How sad for the F1. So much money thrown just to see this guy getting the championship. I like the Ron Denni´s remark that he spent 7mil dollars to make Hamilton´s car 0,17s faster. Two things why he didn´t make the Kovalaninen´s car faster too? So he could defend Hamilton´s ass? And where is the "both drivers get always the same material, same car, same engine.... same treatement"?

    Interesting that the Timo´s Toyota car become suddnely slower knowing that he is Hamilton´s padock best friend.

    All this looked like in Champions League Final to see a footbaler making two autogoals in the final and saying that everything was a mistake.... This is sport!


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

     

    So who's going where next season??

    Where is Vettel going?

    lets start making a list!


    --

    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    People seem to concetrate on drivers. I do not get this. Drivers are just employees, working for their teams. Give Rakkinen, Hamilton or Alonso a Force India and they would be just as bad as Sutil is (who is a good driver by the way). Personally, I would prefer it if Massa won the title (since he is a Ferrari employee) but what really matters is that Ferrari won the Constructors' Championship. This shows that they had the best and quickest car and also that they can put the "F1 World Champions" logo on their road cars as President di Montizemelo proudly said. F1 is a team sport after all. In 20 years time very few people are going to remember who was driving for Ferrari or McLaren in 2008 but they will still support those teams and their respective drivers. The team is always greater than the individual player. 


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    The team is always greater than the driver, but for a success a good driver and a good team have to come together.

    Senna, Schumacher, ... they WILL be remembered. Aswell as the big teams.


    Re: Brazilian F1 Grand Prix in Sao Paulo

    REALZEUS:

    People seem to concetrate on drivers. I do not get this. Drivers are just employees, working for their teams. Give Rakkinen, Hamilton or Alonso a Force India and they would be just as bad as Sutil is (who is a good driver by the way). Personally, I would prefer it if Massa won the title (since he is a Ferrari employee) but what really matters is that Ferrari won the Constructors' Championship. This shows that they had the best and quickest car and also that they can put the "F1 World Champions" logo on their road cars as President di Montizemelo proudly said. F1 is a team sport after all. In 20 years time very few people are going to remember who was driving for Ferrari or McLaren in 2008 but they will still support those teams and their respective drivers. The team is always greater than the individual player. 


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!
    Nobody remembers the WCC to be honest and the English apparatus of propaganda is already trying to create a legend around his Golden Boy.

     
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