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    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    When a feature like that is abused, it does not make any difference whether it is a Nissan or BMW or else, IMHO.  In my country the launch control of SMGII of E46 M3 was 100 times lifetime.  After that magic number you would be on your own.   I only did 5 times because it felt like the car was on high stress.  It did not matter if I started couple of miliseconds slower.  

    None of these launch controls are bulletproof in any manufacturer so just because Nissan was under the spot light and they did decide on removal of this feature, it does not make GTR a low quality car.  If I were them I would limit the number of launches but if what says in the link is true they did remove it alltogether.


    --

    2006 C4S --to be ditched soon..

    Suzuki Burgman AN400


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    Queram:

    When a feature like that is abused, it does not make any difference whether it is a Nissan or BMW or else, IMHO.  In my country the launch control of SMGII of E46 M3 was 100 times lifetime.  After that magic number you would be on your own.   I only did 5 times because it felt like the car was on high stress.  It did not matter if I started couple of miliseconds slower.  

    None of these launch controls are bulletproof in any manufacturer so just because Nissan was under the spot light and they did decide on removal of this feature, it does not make GTR a low quality car.  If I were them I would limit the number of launches but if what says in the link is true they did remove it alltogether.


    --

    2006 C4S --to be ditched soon..

    Suzuki Burgman AN400


    i totally disagree. either it's featured and more or less bulletproof or it's omitted.

    like porsche selling a gt2 and saying it will only pull at 530 hp for ten times after it's toast......

    i used the lc on my gt2 several times and have no issues whatsoever.....


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    You have your personal experience to fall back on with the Porsche GT2, but its not what really makes a Porsche GT2 special. The GTR launch control was definitely abused by their owners who thought,like the video game, would never break on them. I have to agree with Queram; owners of these cars are to blame for the withdrawal of the LC and if Porsche owner did the same stunt with their cars, their would be alot of Turbos and Carreras in the shop. Nothings is BULLETPROOF when you have a carelessly aggresive driver behind the wheel.

    PS: I've launched many corvettes and porsche, and they are mixed bag of how reliable they can be. I've never driven a GTR so I will not judge Nissan on a personal level.


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    SadoTorque:

    I have to agree with Queram; owners of these cars are to blame for the withdrawal of the LC and if Porsche owner did the same stunt with their cars, their would be alot of Turbos and Carreras in the shop.

    Good point. In this case the discontinuation of the LC would say more about the typical customer than about the technology itself Smiley Traffic light racing comes at a prise Smiley

    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    Porsche-Jeck:
    SadoTorque:

    I have to agree with Queram; owners of these cars are to blame for the withdrawal of the LC and if Porsche owner did the same stunt with their cars, their would be alot of Turbos and Carreras in the shop.

    Good point. In this case the discontinuation of the LC would say more about the typical customer than about the technology itself Smiley Traffic light racing comes at a prise Smiley

    Well this may be a mostly correct observation however there are those of us who would not mind owning these cars.  I appreciate GTR for what it is as I do the same for a S2000, Focus ST, Cooper SJW, you name it.  I even like diesels:)

     

    intouch: I do not think your GT2 would handle the same abuse these GTRs were in the shop for.  These launches are mechanically intense specially for AWD cars where it gets more complex.  Just MHO.


    --

    2006 C4S --to be ditched soon..

    Suzuki Burgman AN400


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    hatever the rationale behind the discontinuation, Nissan's decision indicates a manufacturer out of its depth in the serious performance game, no matter what some lap-times try to convince.

    You don't discontinue a technology weeks after releasing a product and when this product has been hardly launched around half of the world.

    It points to insufficient testing prior to releasing the technology, in my way of thinking. Perhaps Mr. Tochio Suzuki was occupied with the NBR  and had little time to test the launch control thoroughly.


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    I find it amusing, personally. I guess the car can't do 0-60 in less than 4.3 seconds after all. Will they revise their performance claims?

    "It's gone," he said when asked if launch control would return in 2010. "We just don't want to deal with the warranty nightmare anymore. It'll make the 2009 GT-R really special. It'll be the only R35 with launch control." - (That you can't use.) Smiley


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    JoeRockhead:

    I find it amusing, personally. I guess the car can't do 0-60 in less than 4.3 seconds after all. Will they revise their performance claims?

    "It's gone," he said when asked if launch control would return in 2010. "We just don't want to deal with the warranty nightmare anymore. It'll make the 2009 GT-R really special. It'll be the only R35 with launch control." - (That you can't use.) Smiley

    +2

    --

    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    In the end, does it really matter. L/C is one of the novelty features in a car that gets used less than 1% of the time over its entire life and is not "mission critical" in any way unless

    If it's causing too many headaches - the smart thing to do is to kill it. But the real question is why didn't the transmission supplier beat the hell out of it before sending it to production, or putting a cap on the number of L/C's it could do over the life of the tranny before an inspection/rebuild would be mandadated.


    --
    ...the only thing stopping you, is you!

    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    Heist:

    In the end, does it really matter. L/C is one of the novelty features in a car that gets used less than 1% of the time over its entire life and is not "mission critical" in any way unless

    If it's causing too many headaches - the smart thing to do is to kill it. But the real question is why didn't the transmission supplier beat the hell out of it before sending it to production, or putting a cap on the number of L/C's it could do over the life of the tranny before an inspection/rebuild would be mandadated.



    OK, L/C is not mission-critical, so kill it.

    Next thing you know, a rather astonishing lap time at the Nürburgring is also no longer mission-critical (since the suckers have already bought their cars anyway), so kill it.

    Low price is unprofitable? Kill it!

    Heist, is your speciality marketing, by any chance? Smiley

    A transmission supplier would only bench-test his product under tightly controlled conditions to ensure that it fulfils the requirements specified by the car manufacturer . Track or road testing the tranny in the car to ensure that the requirements he originally specified are adequate to withstand real-world conditions the transmission can be expected to be subjected to can only be the responsibility of the car manufacturerer.

    If durability of production transmissions is not consistently up to agreed spec, the supplier has a problem.

    If the transmission fulfils agreed specs but is not up to what the car manufacturer suggested to the market it should be capable of, the car manufacturer has a problem. 

    The solution of this problem could consist either of high warranty costs when abused toys break, or of living with loss of credibility when customers have to be told that they themselves have to pay for said abuse. 


    --
    fritz

    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    this is embarrasing...

    wonder what other things are going to go in time ¿VDC button?¿current power output in future EU version?Smiley


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    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    Carlos from Spain:

    this is embarrasing...

    wonder what other things are going to go in time ¿VDC button?¿current power output in future EU version?Smiley


    Do we even know yet what it will cost in Europe?  Smiley

    --
    fritz

    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    fritz:
    Heist:

    In the end, does it really matter. L/C is one of the novelty features in a car that gets used less than 1% of the time over its entire life and is not "mission critical" in any way unless

    If it's causing too many headaches - the smart thing to do is to kill it. But the real question is why didn't the transmission supplier beat the hell out of it before sending it to production, or putting a cap on the number of L/C's it could do over the life of the tranny before an inspection/rebuild would be mandadated.



    OK, L/C is not mission-critical, so kill it.

    Next thing you know, a rather astonishing lap time at the Nürburgring is also no longer mission-critical (since the suckers have already bought their cars anyway), so kill it.

    Low price is unprofitable? Kill it!

    Heist, is your speciality marketing, by any chance? Smiley

    A transmission supplier would only bench-test his product under tightly controlled conditions to ensure that it fulfils the requirements specified by the car manufacturer . Track or road testing the tranny in the car to ensure that the requirements he originally specified are adequate to withstand real-world conditions the transmission can be expected to be subjected to can only be the responsibility of the car manufacturerer.

    If durability of production transmissions is not consistently up to agreed spec, the supplier has a problem.

    If the transmission fulfils agreed specs but is not up to what the car manufacturer suggested to the market it should be capable of, the car manufacturer has a problem. 

    The solution of this problem could consist either of high warranty costs when abused toys break, or of living with loss of credibility when customers have to be told that they themselves have to pay for said abuse. 


    --
    fritz

    LOL!

    That did sound good. Maybe I should work for Marketing, Fritz. :)


    --
    ...the only thing stopping you, is you!

    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    fritz:
    Carlos from Spain:

    this is embarrasing...

    wonder what other things are going to go in time ¿VDC button?¿current power output in future EU version?Smiley


    Do we even know yet what it will cost in Europe?  Smiley

    --
    fritz

    I don't think even they know themselves, they are still factoring in the cost of all the trannies in warranties of the ´09 model they have to cover Smiley

    Wonder what the resale value of the ´09 model is going to be now after their warranty goes out, considering Nissan charges $20k for the tranny Smiley (thats a smart way to recuperate money after selling them bellow cost for marketing purposes) and you have to wonder if its going to blow on you from previous owner's L/C use...


    --

    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    So most people here thinks that other manufacturers products would handle the abuse of LC feature.  I still do not think that it is a feature that should be daily used.  These are owner abused problems.

    I think a magazine should do a test of this.  How relable are the transmissions?  They should do LC launches and abuse until they break.  Although one car would not be an example but I think we would have an idea. 


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    Queram:

    So most people here thinks that other manufacturers products would handle the abuse of LC feature.  I still do not think that it is a feature that should be daily used.  These are owner abused problems.

    I think a magazine should do a test of this.  How relable are the transmissions?  They should do LC launches and abuse until they break.  Although one car would not be an example but I think we would have an idea. 

    Other manufacturers, like BMW, warned people of the consequences of using launch control on their vehicles after a certain point. Ferrari and Porsche just assume that if it's in their car, you can go ahead and use it. Think of any other product you might buy that has a feature in it that makes it perform better, but if you use it you void your warranty in the process. It's ridiculous. They shouldn't have sold it like that in the first place.

     My personal feeling is that the Nissan GT-R phenomenon is a joke and this is one example of why.


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    Queram:

    So most people here thinks that other manufacturers products would handle the abuse of LC feature.  I still do not think that it is a feature that should be daily used.  These are owner abused problems.

    I think a magazine should do a test of this.  How relable are the transmissions?  They should do LC launches and abuse until they break.  Although one car would not be an example but I think we would have an idea. 


    Queram, launch control is not a new feature that Nissan invented and introduced, its been around for years and yet we haven't seen the fiasco we have seen with the GT-R. There is no excuse for ofering a free-to-use feature (and publishing its 0-100 time based on the LC) only to find afterwards that it blows up your tranny. Its like selling you a car that reaches 300km/h and you are told you can go as fast as you like, but at speeds above 250kmh your engine blows up. And without looking far, you have Porsche's own LC on the PDK, amazingly effective and performing, yet you can use it as much as you like, and believe me, all the PDK-test cars around the world that dealers have been lending to their customers for test-drives daty after day have had their LC's used over and over and over.
    --

    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    Launch control only controls wheelspin doesn't it? So you press the pedal, and the computer will send power to the wheels untill it slips? So the amount of torque going through the gearbox is largely dependant on the tyres? I guess porsche and ferrari just made sure that theri gearboxes are not the weakest links... hell, you can even build in a special cheap part that is failing just before the gearbox...

    -Joost-


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    Don't they promote the handcrafted gearbox that is especially build for one engine?

    How come the gearbox could be a problem, then?


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    This is the maker of the GT-R gearbox

    http://www.aichikikai.co.jp/english/history.html

    IMO not as specialist in high performance vehicles as Getrag or BorgWarner.


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    I just watched Clarkson's latest "Thriller" DVD where he shows the owners manual that says turning off the traction control logs the event in the computer log and then voids your warranty.  So he did it anyway as it wasn't his car. 

    He then concluded that with TC off the car was as boring to drive as with TC on!  Fast yes, exciting no.


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    Did you know that pretty much every car with a DCT has problems? Yes, even the 100 hp diesels from Volkswagen and if I'm not mistaken those gear boxes are build by one of those companies.


    Isn't the GT-R the only car in ths US with launch control? I don't think BMW or Ferrari had cars for the US market with LC. 


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    Walter:

    Did you know that pretty much every car with a DCT has problems? Yes, even the 100 hp diesels from Volkswagen and if I'm not mistaken those gear boxes are build by one of those companies.


    Isn't the GT-R the only car in ths US with launch control? I don't think BMW or Ferrari had cars for the US market with LC. 

    I've heard of VW DSG problems with electronics but not transmissions disintegrating.

    If I am not wrong the M3 has had LC for at least 4-5 years now.



    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    Carlos from Spain: Queram, launch control is not a new feature that Nissan invented and introduced, its been around for years and yet we haven't seen the fiasco we have seen with the GT-R. There is no excuse for ofering a free-to-use feature (and publishing its 0-100 time based on the LC) only to find afterwards that it blows up your tranny. Its like selling you a car that reaches 300km/h and you are told you can go as fast as you like, but at speeds above 250kmh your engine blows up. And without looking far, you have Porsche's own LC on the PDK, amazingly effective and performing, yet you can use it as much as you like, and believe me, all the PDK-test cars around the world that dealers have been lending to their customers for test-drives daty after day have had their LC's used over and over and over.
    --

    Actually, the times that Nissan advertises were not done with the LC and no where does Nissan mention LC. Someone from the NAGTROC has done faster times than those advertised by Nissan without LC.


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    reginos:

    I've heard of VW DSG problems with electronics but not transmissions disintegrating.

    If I am not wrong the M3 has had LC for at least 4-5 years now.

    I'd say it's because those cars don't have 500hp and don't weigh 1.8tons.

     That's correct, BMWs have LC. The difference it's the rpms at which the car will be launched. It's the Ferraris that don't have LC.


    Re: Nissan discontinues Launch Control for GT-R

    Walter:

    I'd say it's because those cars don't have 500hp and don't weigh 1.8tons.

     That's correct, BMWs have LC. The difference it's the rpms at which the car will be launched. It's the Ferraris that don't have LC.

    The 599 does. It has over 600 HP, weighs almost 3800 pounds and has launch control that doesn't seem to break anything. Seems Nissan under-engineered the car to me.

     
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