Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    EVO first drive of the new M3

    http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70400

    From an EVO first drive of the new M3

    As well as occasionally joining magazines on these kinds of tests I also own the cars I review, so I've owned 3 E46 M3's, still own an M3 CSL and also a Z4M Coupe.

    From my perspective and understanding what most of us discuss on forums such as this, I would summarise and say that most of you that are hoping the E92 M3 is good will not be dissapointed. It is good.

    A friend of mine sent me a text yesterday as I was driving the E92 M3 and asked if I had to choose between my M3 CSL and this E92 M3, which car would I choose (assuming I could choose only one). My answer after much reflection was I would choose the E92 M3. Reasons? It's a very competent and fun car to drive, not a CSL in any way, but just as quick and just as loud. So anyone sitting on the fence trying to decide should they change from an E46 M3, I would say undoubtedly yes.

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Interesting link.... thank you

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    CAR has also driven it and has posted a teaser video before their M3 special goes online tomorrow:
    http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/news.php?sid=843&page=1

    Quote:
    CAR Online is pulling out all the stops for the launch of the new BMW M3. Will the newcomer remain the seminal sports saloon? Is V8 better than six? All is revealed on Friday 6 July.

    Our special report will be bursting with all the info you need for the full lowdown on the new M3. Come back to CAR Online for the definitive:

    * The first full road test

    * Professionally shot video footage

    * Exclusive downloads of CAR photography from the launch

    * How the M3 stacks up against its rivals



    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    BTW, SteveD is a member here...

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    BTW, SteveD is a member here...



    Really ? Don't recall his ID.

    Steve,

    through us a bone, share M3 stuff with us too .

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    SteveD member #1906

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Aum, I'm surprised that you like the new e92, much less more than your old csl. You seem to be a racing purist as per the numerous posts you put on the turbo board about weight reduction...

    How can you rationalize the e92's massive weight, especially in terms of track performance? How could that be more gripping than a CSL, especially as you are a driver with a penchance for track performance...

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Aum, I'm surprised that you like the new e92, much less more than your old csl. You seem to be a racing purist as per the numerous posts you put on the turbo board about weight reduction...

    How can you rationalize the e92's massive weight, especially in terms of track performance? How could that be more gripping than a CSL, especially as you are a driver with a penchance for track performance...




    I have made no comments about the new M3. They are from SteveD an EVO reviewer, not me.

    I do prefer the old CSL to the new M3 (I track a lot and cannot abide heavy cars).

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    AUM said:I do prefer the old CSL to the new M3 (I track a lot and cannot abide heavy cars).


    How much does your CSL weigh? How much does the new E92 M3 weigh? I wonder if the E92 CSL will be able to save more weight than the E46 version?

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Don't alleged sporty/track-oriented cars need competent brakes??? Has BMW ever engineered a car w/competent brakes???

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    WBH said:
    Don't alleged sporty/track-oriented cars need competent brakes??? Has BMW ever engineered a car w/competent brakes???


    I can't understand why they don't use Brembos when companies like Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, and Cadillac have even begun to use them...

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    I find it quite strange to engineer a car with such great performance and then to skip on the most important part. The Brakes!!!

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:I do prefer the old CSL to the new M3 (I track a lot and cannot abide heavy cars).


    How much does your CSL weigh? How much does the new E92 M3 weigh? I wonder if the E92 CSL will be able to save more weight than the E46 version?



    lbs/hp using curb weights:

    E92 M3: 3478/420 = 8.30 lb/hp
    E46 M3 CSL: 3130/360 = 8.69 lb/hp

    There are no details yet on the new CSL.

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    trip said:
    I find it quite strange to engineer a car with such great performance and then to skip on the most important part. The Brakes!!!



    The M3 and CSL brakes are fine for road use but overheat on the track. Most CSL trackers upgrade to AP big reds.

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    AUM said:lbs/hp using curb weights:

    E92 M3: 3478/420 = 8.30 lb/hp
    E46 M3 CSL: 3130/360 = 8.69 lb/hp


    350 lbs increase from E46 CSL to E92 M3 is pretty big gain. Hope the E92 CSL can shave at least 100kg...

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    lbs/hp using curb weights:

    E92 M3: 3478/420 = 8.30 lb/hp
    E46 M3 CSL: 3130/360 = 8.69 lb/hp

    There are no details yet on the new CSL.



    You cant compensate for weight with just horespower. I am a firm believer of this, hence why the new generation of sportscars really dont appeal to me...

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    lbs/hp using curb weights:

    E92 M3: 3478/420 = 8.30 lb/hp
    E46 M3 CSL: 3130/360 = 8.69 lb/hp

    There are no details yet on the new CSL.



    You cant compensate for weight with just horespower. I am a firm believer of this, hence why the new generation of sportscars really dont appeal to me...



    I agree. And everyone complains and keeps buying heavier sports cars. I intend to vote with for lighter sports cars with my purchases.

    The problem is there is very little choice in the light, sub 8-minute and practical catagory. The CSL stands almost alone there.

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    C6 Z06 is probably the best car out right now for the track. At just over 3100 lbs with 505 hp.

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    ocnatv said:
    C6 Z06 is probably the best car out right now for the track. At just over 3100 lbs with 505 hp.



    I just saw a yellow ZO6 at the Ring. It is just too ugly for me to consider in spite of its excellent performance. And it is not in the practical ( 4 seat) catagory.

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    BTW, SteveD is a member here...



    Really ? Don't recall his ID.

    Steve,

    through us a bone, share M3 stuff with us too .



    Apologies Ron, what do you want to know?

    P.s. Richard Meaden has written the article in EVO, so I would encourage you to read it when it comes out in 2 weeks time. I just contributed my thoughts and shared the driving.

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    lbs/hp using curb weights:

    E92 M3: 3478/420 = 8.30 lb/hp
    E46 M3 CSL: 3130/360 = 8.69 lb/hp

    There are no details yet on the new CSL.



    You cant compensate for weight with just horespower. I am a firm believer of this, hence why the new generation of sportscars really dont appeal to me...



    I agree. And everyone complains and keeps buying heavier sports cars. I intend to vote with for lighter sports cars with my purchases.

    The problem is there is very little choice in the light, sub 8-minute and practical catagory. The CSL stands almost alone there.



    I totally agree with you regarding "weight", which IMO is the enemy! Manufacturers need to use more carbon fibre/aluminum/titanium etc. More power is NOT the solution.

    Again, IMO the new M3 is MUCH too heavy. What was BMW thinking??? Its V8 engine is actually lighter than the old in-line 6, so that's not the problem. I've seen its weight listed at 3,648lbs!!!

    It probably won't lap the Ring as fast as the M5. Too bad.

    As for the "old" CSL, given its straight line performance, which is about equal to a 997C2S, Sport Auto's 7'50" lap was questionable IMO. What brakes and tires were used?

    It just doesn't add up? How can it be as fast as a 996GT3 - which weighs less, has better traction, aerodynamics etc? That time would place it ahead of a ZO6, 997tt, f430, Gallardo etc. There is a saying "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is". In this case, that's how I feel. One test will not be good enough for me - at least in this case.

    The Cayman S lapped the Ring in 8'11", only 2 seconds slower than the Ferrari 360 - not bad at all.

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    SteveD said:
    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    BTW, SteveD is a member here...



    Really ? Don't recall his ID.

    Steve,

    through us a bone, share M3 stuff with us too .



    Apologies Ron, what do you want to know?

    P.s. Richard Meaden has written the article in EVO, so I would encourage you to read it when it comes out in 2 weeks time. I just contributed my thoughts and shared the driving.



    Hi there

    based on your experience would you pick the new M3 or AUDI RS4?

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    The CSL consistently posts similar (sometimes faster) lap times to the GT3 on various tracks. And the CSL is faster around the Ring than both the 996 and 997 Turbos. A number of CSL owners changed from Turbos for the superior track performance. The Sport Auto test was a standard car with MPSC tyres.

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:

    Hi there

    based on your experience would you pick the new M3 or AUDI RS4?



    As a daily driver and for the sheer ease of just getting in and driving, I preferred the RS4. The slick gearbox and laid back (but still sporty) demeanour of the car was very impressive. But as a drivers car, there was absolutely no doubt in any of the testers minds that the M3 was on another level.

    There is little evidence in the M3 of any direct targeting of the 997, although BMW do quote the 997 as a key competitor in their internal briefings, but more than anything BMW took the RS4 pinpointed where it was weak (i.e. dynamically) and developed their response in the new M3 to hit this underbelly hard.

    It's the most obvious thing you notice when you compare both cars side by side.

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    I have to disagree here with Steve. Why? Well, I did not drive new M3 but, somebody from Motorpresse who did told me that new M3 in its current form(with optional EDC) is not a match for RS4(with optional Sport Suspension Plus, 19" wheels and front Ceramic brakes). He even claimed that brakes on new M3 are pure POS(BMW allow only ONE lap on the track in this press release) and that steering in numb... Since Motorpresse magazines(AMS, Sport Auto) will fully test new M3 pretty soon we will see... BUT, according to his guess new M3 wont be faster on both Hockenheim and Nordschleife then RS4 Saloon. Not a bad thing for a car that will be in prodcution only for another 8months or so.

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Birds said 8.12 for Nring? Is that real Kreso?? I mean for the M3

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Birds said 8.12 for Nring? Is that real Kreso?? I mean for the M3



    No Birds:)

    BMW Canada said 8:12 for the new M3 with normal tires!

    greets Björn

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Yes. So, in von Saurma hands it will be even little bit slower-say 8.14-8.15min, keep in mind that RS4 achived 8.09min(ok, with SS+, Corsa's and Ceramics)... Other very important thing-both RS4 and new C63 AMG is possible to get with 280km/h limit, on the other hand new M3 is possible to get with 270km/h limit(code 07ME, M Drivers package). This is answer to the real question which car is faster-RS4 on the autbahn.

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Kreso can C63 go 280kmh on Nring , i dont think so...
    gt3RS did 273km as i remember.

    For the question of the summer. Its real mystery...

    I expect a 8.12 time from HVS.

    But there something good on M3 compared to M5.
    M5 gets the peak torq at 6100rpm but M3 get it at 3900.

    RS4 vs M3 my vote goes for M3 about a nose but sure...

    Re: EVO first drive of the new M3

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    I have to disagree here with Steve. Why? Well, I did not drive new M3 but, somebody from Motorpresse who did told me that new M3 in its current form(with optional EDC) is not a match for RS4(with optional Sport Suspension Plus, 19" wheels and front Ceramic brakes). He even claimed that brakes on new M3 are pure POS(BMW allow only ONE lap on the track in this press release) and that steering in numb... Since Motorpresse magazines(AMS, Sport Auto) will fully test new M3 pretty soon we will see... BUT, according to his guess new M3 wont be faster on both Hockenheim and Nordschleife then RS4 Saloon. Not a bad thing for a car that will be in prodcution only for another 8months or so.



    Having spent two days driving them back to back, I know which was faster. Both on the autostrada, where the M3 pulled away each time from the RS4 and when we swapped drivers and drove them up and down the mountain passes together. The M3's brakes were the equal of the RS4s (steel brakes), both of them grumbling and exhibiting similar levels of retardation.

    Dynamically you could really feel the RS4's extra unsprung weight, whilst agile it lost composure when driven beyond 8/10ths (particularly under braking), also we consistently found that the M3 was able to achieve better traction out of tighter corners than the RS4 which would ultimately understeer. Perhaps if the roads had not been so slippery, but the RS4 resolutely understeered and lost time (and road distance as a result).

    There was never any doubt in the comparison, so certainly on those roads in those cars the advantage of the M3 was clear.

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 4/24/18 8:59 PM
    Grant
    283691 4502
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 4/24/18 2:49 PM
    Whoopsy
    270724 1816
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 4/24/18 11:22 PM
    Ferdie
     
     
     
     
     
    172090 985
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 4/25/18 3:27 PM
    MKSGRM
    101191 1790
    Porsche Sticky 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) 4/25/18 7:21 AM
    RCA
    80655 1130
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/25/18 6:31 PM
    noone1
    23314 1121
    Porsche 918 latest news Thread Closed 11/6/17 10:43 AM
    RCA
    553910 5574
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS 1/9/18 1:43 PM
    Kimi
    461751 5816
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 4/3/18 9:15 AM
    KresoF1
    450863 4254
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 3/11/18 5:44 PM
    RCA
    249742 2560
    Porsche Cayman GT4 12/30/17 11:07 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    217031 2482
    Porsche 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip Thread Closed 7/3/17 2:04 PM
    RCA
    177339 1699
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S 1/23/18 12:27 AM
    RCA
    167226 1074
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 3/31/18 10:47 PM
    watt
    147227 1495
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 4/24/18 1:41 PM
    DJM48
    142183 2937
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 12/29/17 8:31 AM
    dreamcar
    113489 692
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 4/25/18 3:42 PM
    nberry
    110664 2090
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 1/6/18 10:41 PM
    Wonderbar
    109177 1284
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 12/5/17 3:29 PM
    RCA
    89360 765
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 4/20/18 6:04 PM
    noone1
    84282 869
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 718 Boxster (2016) 10/20/17 11:17 AM
    DaveGordon
    82759 732
    McLaren F1 8/23/17 11:10 AM
    Carlos from SpainM
    51154 202
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 3/30/18 9:09 AM
    TB993tt
    48206 640
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 4/23/18 2:30 AM
    Targa Tim
    46643 726
    Porsche UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne 2/6/18 2:13 PM
    RCA
    42845 423
    Lambo Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring? 11/7/17 12:30 AM
    kingjr9000
    37009 852
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/29/17 12:27 PM
    DJM48
    31335 471
    AMG AMG GT R 1/26/18 7:19 AM
    GoHardGT3RS
    31108 597
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    31018 1122
    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/12/18 2:01 PM
    crayphile
    28313 427
    345 items found, displaying 1 to 30.