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    Sportscars: comparing them...

    A comment from RC about the 991 GT3 kicking some ass on the track got me to thinking... I need a Spideriol or someone to help me here:

    How does one really judge these things..?  Clearly it's no good looking at a Porsche Cup race - we always seem to win those...Smiley

    So what is the best class/es to compare with the Ferrari's, Astons etc, and even then, is it fair?  Don't these classes have specific limitations (most notably air intake) so that the cars themselves are limited to what they could achieve..?  

    How different is the GT3 RS you can buy at your local dealer to the RSR that you can buy from the factory, and how different is that to what teams might do to the RSR when they get it? 

     


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    The race RSR has nothing in comon with the street RS, so its not a reference, the best comparison I have seen between street sportcars is SportAuto' supertest, but still you have to take it with a grsin of salt due to the optional equipmentfitted in test csrs, tires, environental conditions, etc.
    --


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Budster:

    A comment from RC about the 991 GT3 kicking some ass on the track got me to thinking... I need a Spideriol or someone to help me here:

    How does one really judge these things..?  Clearly it's no good looking at a Porsche Cup race - we always seem to win those...Smiley

    So what is the best class/es to compare with the Ferrari's, Astons etc, and even then, is it fair?  Don't these classes have specific limitations (most notably air intake) so that the cars themselves are limited to what they could achieve..?  

    How different is the GT3 RS you can buy at your local dealer to the RSR that you can buy from the factory, and how different is that to what teams might do to the RSR when they get it? 

     

    To be honest: I couldn't care less about the motorosport models. When I talk about track racing, I'm talking about private runs, driver ed events, club sport and so on. I am not interested in professional motorsport anymore because there are so many talented people out there who just don't have the money to compete. I met a couple of drivers who kicked everybody's ass on the track and they never got the chance, despite their willingness, to compete professionally. It is all about money, politics and the media nowadays.

    I am more interested on how the factory cars like GT3/GT3 RS compete vs. a Lamborghini Gallardo or Audi R8 GT on the track in private hands, this is much more fun for me.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    RC:
    I am more interested on how the factory cars like GT3/GT3 RS compete vs. a Lamborghini Gallardo or Audi R8 GT on the track in private hands, this is much more fun for me.

     I agree completely RC - but instead of the Top Gear Leaderboard and the Evo listing, there's nothing to base any comparison on. 

    I used to think single series racing was stupid but I now realise it's the opposite: a great way of pitting drivers and teams against each other on an even footing.  But it was still single series...  In SA we used to have a Group N series, which was pretty much out of the box racing for similar powered cars as you could by them off the showroom floor, with very little modifications apart from brakes and tyres...  It would be great if there was an international series like that: the barriers to entry are at least almost attainable to the gentleman driver.


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Wow,

    you open a can of worms here. There are basically three questions in your post waiting to be answered. Of course, not by me but just saying... Smiley

    The SportAuto Supertest aims at comparing these cars in a very objective fashion by placing them on the same track with the same driver and considering variables such as ambient temperature as well as the suspension´s geometry settings. This doesn´t say anything about the cars´ ability in different conditions or suitability to different drivers. Obviously some test cars feature a more aggressive setting than the average customer car since it simply is out of spec. The effect in daily conditions would primarily be a higher tire consumption but possibly driving characteristics that are less suitable for the average driver. 

    The 997 Cup car is very close to the common GT3 in terms of chassis and engine. I have a pdf-file from Porsche somewhere that states the technical differences of these two cars. Although they are quite similar, it would be financially unreasonable to convert the street version to the Cup version. These Cup cars do compete in several endurance races as well, such as the VLN at the Nürburgring and several 24h races. Nonetheless there are so many variables that are decisive for a successful result that do not directly relate to the car´s performance (drivers, tires, team strategy). 

    In the last few years, I get the impression that most series´ regulations are based on the Balance of Performance system that tries to even out different performance potentials to adjust lap times. I guess otherwise no manufacturer or team would be willing to spend the money to compete if they wouldn´t have a chance to win in the first place. It is interesting to see that the GT3 in the 24h race at the Nürburgring have both a smaller fuel tank and a lower flow rate at refueling which made them loose relevant time at the pit stops. While this enables teams with high-displacement engines (Audi R8, Mercedes SLS) to conceal their handicap, a fuel-efficient engine as on the GT3 is not favored anymore.

     


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Budster:

    A comment from RC about the 991 GT3 kicking some ass on the track got me to thinking... I need a Spideriol or someone to help me here:

    How does one really judge these things..?  Clearly it's no good looking at a Porsche Cup race - we always seem to win those...Smiley

    So what is the best class/es to compare with the Ferrari's, Astons etc, and even then, is it fair?  Don't these classes have specific limitations (most notably air intake) so that the cars themselves are limited to what they could achieve..?  

    How different is the GT3 RS you can buy at your local dealer to the RSR that you can buy from the factory, and how different is that to what teams might do to the RSR when they get it? 

     

    @ Budster .  I will try and provide you with some answers as you were so kind as to mention me by name.

    Unfortunately , and as Ferdie has already pointed out, BoP (Balance of Performance) is the norm today (in GT racing), so there really is no professional class that lets the various cars race in an unrestricted fashion.

    However, it is important to note that a certain amount of BoP has always existed in racing. (many manufacturers love it). The sad (for me) issue, is that in the past, the 911 was the bench mark. All other cars needed to get BoP breaks in order to compete with it. Today the tables are turned. In most cases the 911 is no longer competitive unless it is given  substantial air restrictor  and aero breaks.

    I remember  not so long ago, a team that wanted to have some success in GT racing "needed" to opt for a 911 of some sort. Today we see the F458 take that place. Porsche have lost a good share of their Motorsport business to Ferrari. (What frightens me is that I see no answer form Porsche to the current status quo on the horizon).

    Now for the RSR question:

    The RS (street version) is the homologation car used by Porsche for the RSR. Porsche produces the car to comply with the regulations. It is up to the teams to  concentrate on tires, chassis and suspension set up, through testing.

    The idea behind GT racing is that the cars be racing versions of the street car. Not purpose built racing cars. That is left for the LMP classes.

    If you are really interested in changes that can be made to the GT racing cars, then here is a link to the 2012 GTE regulations. http://www.europeanlemansseries.com/ml/images/content/Espace_concurrents/Team/2012/Saison/technical_regulations_lmgte_2012-06.12.11.pdf

     

    I am not sure that I have shed any further light, but let me know if you have any other specific questions.

     

     

     


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Spyderidol

    The sad (for me) issue, is that in the past, the 911 was the bench mark. All other cars needed to get BoP breaks in order to compete with it. Today the tables are turned. In most cases the 911 is no longer competitive unless it is given  substantial air restrictor  and aero breaks.  I remember  not so long ago, a team that wanted to have some success in GT racing "needed" to opt for a 911 of some sort. Today we see the F458 take that place. Porsche have lost a good share of their Motorsport business to Ferrari. (What frightens me is that I see no answer form Porsche to the current status quo on the horizon).

    Now for the RSR question:  The RS (street version) is the homologation car used by Porsche for the RSR. Porsche produces the car to comply with the regulations. It is up to the teams to  concentrate on tires, chassis and suspension set up, through testing.  The idea behind GT racing is that the cars be racing versions of the street car. Not purpose built racing cars. That is left for the LMP classes.

    I am not sure that I have shed any further light, but let me know if you have any other specific questions.

    Hi Syderidol: thanks, you answered it perfectly, and I've quoted 2 sections from your response (above)  that i found particularly interesting.  The first is the big one, and something that is worthy of further debate - i'd love to hear what some of the other expert RT's think of this?

    On the second point, that's great to hear (considering the opposite, most obviously represented by the Lotus F1 car that has zilch, nada, zip to do with Lotus Cars!), and different to Carlos's response: but he's also extremely knowledgable, so I'd be interested in more on this too.  I did think that homologation rules would have made them have to have something   In common...  Perhaps by "nothing in common" is a relative concept Carlos, as the simplest race setup can of course be worth 10 seconds a lap?!  

    I think we all want to drive cars that have some sort of halo effect from Motorsport, both from an historic pedigree perspective as well as a current/forward perspective, so these issues are i think important.  To me, a Bugatti or a Zonda, or a Koeniggseggggggggg etc miss this.  That's why it's great to see Porsche back in LMP1.  And, dare I say...

    they needed to move the engine forward...

    and, just for RC, they need to ditch the manual...

    Now that can of worms is really open Ferdie!


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Budster:

    On the second point, that's great to hear (considering the opposite, most obviously represented by the Lotus F1 car that has zilch, nada, zip to do with Lotus Cars!), and different to Carlos's response: but he's also extremely knowledgable, so I'd be interested in more on this too.  I did think that homologation rules would have made them have to have something   In common...  Perhaps by "nothing in common" is a relative concept Carlos, as the simplest race setup can of course be worth 10 seconds a lap?!  

    Right, what I meant by have nothing to do with the RSR is that while they are based on the same, the changes made to the car for racing compared to the street version, from electronic aids to aerodinamics, from tires to the gearbox, etc make it that you cannot derive any information from how one behaves against the competition and apply it to the street version, there have nothing in common in that sense, not to mention that a smooth track and racing enviroment is far from what you would experience in the real world roads performance, as well as the variability in the perfromacne that the fact that all the cars are driven by different drivers. So IMO the results in racing have nothing to do with the performance of the street version compared to the other street version and in the real world.

    Your best bet is the comparison of street versions against each other on the same roads, same well versed and experienced driver, and controled enviromental and car specifications (stock cars). The one that gets as close to that as its posible is the Supertest by SportAuto, because it uses the Nurbugring which is a track that best simulates the real world with its surface, and wide variety of corners and straights over an 22 km course, it uses the same driver, Horst Von Saurma who has years of experience in testing all types of sportcars and in the Nurgburgring, and they control the test conditions so they are as similar as posible, and those that they cannot control they messure and mention like enviromental, as well as mentioning if the car had any optional equipment, tires fitted, if the manufacturer cheated and sent a rigged demo car with extra power or altered suspension settings, etc so you can take all those into consideration when putting the results into a comparative context with the tests of the other cars. Still you cannot take those resulst literally since you cannot control all variables but it gives you an gross idea of the car compared to others, at least better than any other I can think of.


    --



    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Spyderidol:

    If you are really interested in changes that can be made to the GT racing cars, then here is a link to the 2012 GTE regulations. http://www.europeanlemansseries.com/ml/images/content/Espace_concurrents/Team/2012/Saison/technical_regulations_lmgte_2012-06.12.11.pdf

    I am not sure that I have shed any further light, but let me know if you have any other specific questions.

    Believe it or not I just read the regs and was surprised to find that I could understand it!  And it was very interesting.  I was indeed surprised how close they are - although I can also see what Carlos meant.

    I had to laugh at the need to remove any ant-theft device.  I'm sure that in South Africa we'd get an exemption for that...Smiley


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Budster:
    Spyderidol

    The sad (for me) issue, is that in the past, the 911 was the bench mark. All other cars needed to get BoP breaks in order to compete with it. Today the tables are turned. In most cases the 911 is no longer competitive unless it is given  substantial air restrictor  and aero breaks.  I remember  not so long ago, a team that wanted to have some success in GT racing "needed" to opt for a 911 of some sort. Today we see the F458 take that place. Porsche have lost a good share of their Motorsport business to Ferrari. (What frightens me is that I see no answer form Porsche to the current status quo on the horizon).

    Now for the RSR question:  The RS (street version) is the homologation car used by Porsche for the RSR. Porsche produces the car to comply with the regulations. It is up to the teams to  concentrate on tires, chassis and suspension set up, through testing.  The idea behind GT racing is that the cars be racing versions of the street car. Not purpose built racing cars. That is left for the LMP classes.

    I am not sure that I have shed any further light, but let me know if you have any other specific questions.

    Hi Syderidol: thanks, you answered it perfectly, and I've quoted 2 sections from your response (above)  that i found particularly interesting.  The first is the big one, and something that is worthy of further debate - i'd love to hear what some of the other expert RT's think of this?

    On the second point, that's great to hear (considering the opposite, most obviously represented by the Lotus F1 car that has zilch, nada, zip to do with Lotus Cars!), and different to Carlos's response: but he's also extremely knowledgable, so I'd be interested in more on this too.  I did think that homologation rules would have made them have to have something   In common...  Perhaps by "nothing in common" is a relative concept Carlos, as the simplest race setup can of course be worth 10 seconds a lap?!  [...]

    Now that can of worms is really open Ferdie!


    As Carlos already pointed out, there is a vast technical difference between the GT3 RS on the street and the RSR on the track although they share the same basis. To give you a little indication, the price for the GT3 Cup is around 160k from the factory, the GT3 R, which lies between the Cup and RSR in terms of complexity and performance, costs 280k and the GT3 RSR 380k Euro, all plus VAT. The more expensive the variant, the more advanced and specific are some of the components. Not sure how often the RSR engine has to be rebuilt but it is 50 hours for the Cup engine with a service fee of 13.000 Euros if it is performed at Porsche.

    The laptimes, especially regarding street cars, are very dependant on the cars´ setup which usually focusses on suspension and tires but also includes brakes, gearing or the engine characterstics. Companies such as Manthey have huge experience on the track but it takes a lot of effort and money to achieve significantly faster laptimes on a GT2 or GT3 in standard configuration. As I mentioned above, the suspension settings alone can change the handling characteristic and lap time significantly yet, on the other hand, sacrifice straight-line stability and the tires´ longevity. Therefore I would see these lap times as rough indicators as most available cars are far too heavy for serious track use anyhow. At least that´s how I see it...

    That basically leads to the fact that a Lamborghini Murcielago or Nissan GT-R, which are rather on the heavy side as a  production car, can be modified to an extent that they meet the regulations and are within the same performance margin as their competitors. Other cars such as the M3 E46 or current Z4 are equipped with engines that they are not offered on the market with. Actually, the same accounts for the GT-R that, at least in the FIA GT championship, competes with a 5,5 litre V8. Spyderidol is far better informed about the waivers each manufacturer has received to enter their product in the respective racing series.

    Regarding Porsche´s current state of competitiveness, I somewhat get the feeling that they do not see the requirement to over-engineer their current race car since they would be evened-out by the regulating body. Nonetheless the 997 RSR has faced some tough competition right from its debut so I am very curious how Porsche will fare over the next two to three seasons.


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Thanks once again Ferdie, very interesting and informative.

    From my studying of the GTE regulations, it appears that you can completely change the gearbox as long as it (almost) still sits in the same place - but it can be an entirely different 'box.  I presume that in GTE specifically , the likes of BMW wouldn't get a complete engine waiver..? 


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Yes. The BMW are real waiver-mobiles. 


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Spyderidol:

    Yes. The BMW are real waiver-mobiles. 

    Smiley


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    BMW Regular.png

    This is where the engine sits in a normal street going M3.

     

    Here is the racing ACO approved  version:

    BMW M3 (ACO).png

     


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    That is seriously funny!


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Fantastic subject! 

    Race cars derived from road cars are dramatically different on the track of course, but you can tell they share the same DNA, at least definitely for the Cup car.

    I own two RS road cars, 3.6 and 4.0, and two cup cars, 3.6 and 3.8. I can tell you one thing, the biggest difference is the tyres, if you fit the 4.0 with Slicks, it will be almost as fast as the 3.8, albeit for the fact that you will damage the chassis naturally, but it shows you how similar this particular model is close to the Cup.

    The R and RSR race cars are different beasts, with different budget. But I have been racing the Cups for just over a year and it's fantastic, there is a championship in France called VdeV where a category is dedicated to second hand cups and the competition is fierce but also a lot of fun. 

    It is the natural evolution of anyone who is serious about their trackdays. And budget wise, a cup cars remains very reasonable, especially is you are a team of 3 to 4 drivers sharing the costs.

    You can be a racing driver and spent very little above your traditional yearly trackday budget, and obviously have 100 times more fun, you're not fighting against the clock, you're racing!Smiley

     

     

     


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Budster:

    That is seriously funny!

    That's like the RSR having the motor in the middle!


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Hi Futch

    Thanks for adding your experience to the post.  Can you explain to me (who's a complete novice!) where the "Cup" car comes into the mix?  Is it a stock, but track ready GT3, or what?

    I'm off to the track tomorrow with my GTS for the first time, with my boss and his modified GT3, with lowered suspension and semi-slicks.  There areonly going to be another couple of cars on the track, and as my experience to date consists of 3 or 4 track days in my old Audi RS2 and S4, you can imagine how excited I am..!  We'll probably swap cars during the afternoon, which will be a real treat (and interesting to compare), and I'll spend a session with him in his car getting a lesson.  I really am so new to this, and look foward to understanding how far more I can push the car in a safe environment.


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Futch:

    I own two RS road cars, 3.6 and 4.0, and two cup cars, 3.6 and 3.8.


    Thanks for your comments as well, Futch. What do you use the second Cup car for? Different series that you are competing in?


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Budster:

    Can you explain to me (who's a complete novice!) where the "Cup" car comes into the mix?  Is it a stock, but track ready GT3, or what?

    I'm off to the track tomorrow with my GTS for the first time, with my boss and his modified GT3, with lowered suspension and semi-slicks.  There areonly going to be another couple of cars on the track, and as my experience to date consists of 3 or 4 track days in my old Audi RS2 and S4, you can imagine how excited I am..!  We'll probably swap cars during the afternoon, which will be a real treat (and interesting to compare), and I'll spend a session with him in his car getting a lesson.


    That sounds like a great experience and your boss seems to be an interesting guy. Never spent any time with a superior on the track, sounds like an interesting experience. Just make sure you don´t crash his car... Smiley

    The Cup is, if I may comment on this as well, the car Porsche uses in the Carrera Cup and Supercup series and which is eligible to participate in different additional championships. I mentioned it further above as it is the most "basic" 911 Porsche offers for racing applications. Guess Futch can give some more inside wisdom... Smiley


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    I bought the 2009 3.6 last year to enter a couple of races in the VdeV championship. Having had so much fun, we invested with my friends in a 2011 3.8 car to have a chance to do well in the championship, and so far, we are number 1 after three races so we are very happy indeed.

    Out last race was the 6h of Motorland Aragon where finished 1st in class and a surprising 3rd scratch behind an RSR and a 458 GT2 so pretty cool stuff.

    The Cup car is indeed the most basic racing that Porche offers, based on the 911 GT3, it has exactly the same engine, about 200 kgs lighter, sequential gearbox and semi adjustable suspensions. 

    You cannot buy it new from Porsche unless you're gonna compete in the Carrera Cup but now you can buy a second hand car and enter loads of competition like VdeV, 24h series and even ELMS.

    Reading from your post, I think you should gauge how much fun you're going to have with your GTS on the track, if you  get hooked, then the natural progression will be to move on to a GT3 type car, and then after to a Cup car. 

    Have fun!!!

     


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Budster:

     We'll probably swap cars during the afternoon, which will be a real treat (and interesting to compare), and I'll spend a session with him in his car getting a lesson.

    You are going to want a GT3 Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Gnil:
    Budster:

     We'll probably swap cars during the afternoon, which will be a real treat (and interesting to compare), and I'll spend a session with him in his car getting a lesson.

    You are going to want a GT3 Smiley

    Bloody Cape Town rain!  Session cancelled..!


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Futch:

    I bought the 2009 3.6 last year to enter a couple of races in the VdeV championship. Having had so much fun, we invested with my friends in a 2011 3.8 car to have a chance to do well in the championship, and so far, we are number 1 after three races so we are very happy indeed.

    Out last race was the 6h of Motorland Aragon where finished 1st in class and a surprising 3rd scratch behind an RSR and a 458 GT2 so pretty cool stuff.

    The Cup car is indeed the most basic racing that Porche offers, based on the 911 GT3, it has exactly the same engine, about 200 kgs lighter, sequential gearbox and semi adjustable suspensions. 

    You cannot buy it new from Porsche unless you're gonna compete in the Carrera Cup but now you can buy a second hand car and enter loads of competition like VdeV, 24h series and even ELMS.

    Reading from your post, I think you should gauge how much fun you're going to have with your GTS on the track, if you  get hooked, then the natural progression will be to move on to a GT3 type car, and then after to a Cup car. 

    Have fun!!!

     

    Regarding the engine in a Cup-car, has it always had the exact same engine as its road-car counterpart? I remember reading that a 996 GT3 Cup-engine needs to be rebuilt quite often? You also see its usage expressed in running-hours, as-in "20 running hours left before engine rebuild". I assume that -should these cars have the exact same engine as the road-GT3, such rebuilts would not be needed? What exactly is it that makes these engines so much more 'fragile'?
    I also recall such high-maintenance with the 997 3.6 Cups compared to the 3.8 Cups, correct?


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Porker:
    Futch:

    I bought the 2009 3.6 last year to enter a couple of races in the VdeV championship. Having had so much fun, we invested with my friends in a 2011 3.8 car to have a chance to do well in the championship, and so far, we are number 1 after three races so we are very happy indeed.

    Out last race was the 6h of Motorland Aragon where finished 1st in class and a surprising 3rd scratch behind an RSR and a 458 GT2 so pretty cool stuff.

    The Cup car is indeed the most basic racing that Porche offers, based on the 911 GT3, it has exactly the same engine, about 200 kgs lighter, sequential gearbox and semi adjustable suspensions. 

    You cannot buy it new from Porsche unless you're gonna compete in the Carrera Cup but now you can buy a second hand car and enter loads of competition like VdeV, 24h series and even ELMS.

    Reading from your post, I think you should gauge how much fun you're going to have with your GTS on the track, if you  get hooked, then the natural progression will be to move on to a GT3 type car, and then after to a Cup car. 

    Have fun!!!

     

    Regarding the engine in a Cup-car, has it always had the exact same engine as its road-car counterpart? I remember reading that a 996 GT3 Cup-engine needs to be rebuilt quite often? You also see its usage expressed in running-hours, as-in "20 running hours left before engine rebuild". I assume that -should these cars have the exact same engine as the road-GT3, such rebuilts would not be needed? What exactly is it that makes these engines so much more 'fragile'?
    I also recall such high-maintenance with the 997 3.6 Cups compared to the 3.8 Cups, correct?

     Mea culpa porker, same configuration, same power output (on paper) but different parts. Race engine for exemple, doesn't have variocam. And also has parts made from lighter material, hence the limited durability.

     


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    Fascinating thread :) Like Spyderidol, I too lament Porsche's fall from dominance  ...


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    easy_rider911:

    Fascinating thread :) Like Spyderidol, I too lament Porsche's fall from dominance  ...

     The consequence of Wiedeking's management and vision of the company. It was good for profits (Cayenne, Panamera) but terrible on Motorsport.

    Times have thankfully changed now, the 997 is still in the game actually and the 991 will be even better. And of course the P1 and maybe mid engined racer.

    The future is bright!

     


    Re: Sportscars: comparing them...

    quote from a really cool FalkenALMS PR dude that visits ten-tenths.com
    guess that answers teh gt3 dry-sump question as well. Awsome that the 911 will continue to carry the Porsche banner in GTE

    Official answer, fresh from Andy at Porsche Motorsport PR:
    An announcement about the 2013 Porsche 911 GT3 RSR will be made sometime in the early fall, but it is safe to assume that it will not be based on the current 997 chassis or drivetrain.


     
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