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    If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    If you could buy a 430 today with no wait at MSRP would you buy it over a 997 or would it still not be worth the extra money See a few long time Porsche buyers making the switch , and after driving the car I understand why .

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    I would definetely buy a F430. You cant compare a 997s with a Ferrari..

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    For many years you could drive a Porsche and know there was no other car at any price you would rather have but the 430 for me and others has kind of changed that . When the 997TT comes out it will be close to or over 150K that is not to far away from the MSRP of the 430 . For people in Europe that do not need to pay over MSRP and wait years to get it why buy the 997TT when for a little more you could have a 430 . How about you RC are you not tempted to spend a little more for the 430 ?

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    I would like to have both (wouldn't we all...) and have the 430 for sunny weekends and the P car for day to day.. But in reality, I wouldn't buy the 430 even at MSRP, because its a little out of reach for me and I love the utility of the Porsche.. kids laughing in the back of the cab, loadin up with groceries, etc... I just don't see that happening with the F, as great of a car as it is... However rest assured, I will always drool over it

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    For many years you could drive a Porsche and know there was no other car at any price you would rather have but the 430 for me and others has kind of changed that . When the 997TT comes out it will be close to or over 150K that is not to far away from the MSRP of the 430 . For people in Europe that do not need to pay over MSRP and wait years to get it why buy the 997TT when for a little more you could have a 430 . How about you RC are you not tempted to spend a little more for the 430 ?



    1. the F430 is a great sportscar, there is no doubt about it. It is fast, it is fun, it is beautiful and it definetely appeals to emotions.
    2. no, I would never buy a F430 because of various reasons. First at all, I don't have a good experience with cars from the Fiat company, I drove and raced a few Lancia Delta HF Integrale and always had problems with serious issues. I also remember how italian engineers and workers were thinking about these issues, more like "sh.t happens" than "sorry, it will never happen again". Ferrari quality has improved a lot over the past few years but I still have that strange feeling in my stomach whenever I hear about Fiat, Lancia, Maserati or Ferrari. Can't help it.
    Other reasons why I wouldn't buy a F430: neighbors (envy,a Ferrari is the king of envy), lack of service/repair centers in my vicinity, lack of REALLY good Ferrari mechanics over here in Germany (only a few and most of them work independently), maintenance and repair cost (especially when the warranty is over) and the doubt that the F430 would be a perfect daily driver over here (rain, snow, etc.). And finally: I achieved having a very good relationship to my dealer and a somehow decent and respectful relationship to Porsche, it is a huge advantage for me as a customer to know where to press the "right buttons" to get what I want, especially if there would be problems with the car.
    3. I would never be able to put a F430 on my company, it wouldn't be accepted by the tax authoroties (new law soon to come in Germany: despite of that famous "1%" rule, I need to prove that I'm using the car at least at 50% or over for business use, not private use...impossible with a F430). The 911 has already been accepted by the tax authoroties as a deductible car since over 70% of the cars bought/leased in Germany are uses as company cars. It may of course have something to do with the fact, that Porsche is a german car manufacturer too.

    So I'm afraid even if I don't know the precise specs of the 997 Turbo yet, I would never buy a F430.

    But let me ask you something else: what would make you think that the F430 is the "better" car? Judging by your post, I would say that this is your opinion since both "cost almost the same". Take an example from the watch world: would you say that a watch from Rolex is better/of higher quality than a watch from Corum or Lange&Söhne?
    All three are playing in the same league in my opinion.

    The REAL dreamcar would be the Lamborghini Murcielago but since I can't afford one, it stays my dreamcar. Why my dreamcar? Because it looks absolutely stunning, aggressive and not only looks that way but also performs that way.
    So in my opinion, the 997 Turbo is the best compromise for me personally, not as stylish as the F430 but definetely looking more sporty and aggressive. And I never liked Armani suits, I'm more the Levi's kind of guy.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    no one can give u honest opinion until u own one & realize it urself.

    based on ur question i'd say if u can get a 430 at MSRP then it is worth over the 997 because of its resale value. however, depends on how many miles u're putting & how often u're gonna drive it. IMO i'd never use a Ferrari as a daily drive. for weekend fun u can't beat it. put it this way, if u have another daily car & looking for a weekend car between the 997 & 430 @ sticker then get the 430 no doubt. most likely u will not loose a penny within 1 year or 2 in certain condition (if the car is paid off & no tax involved of course). if u're use it everyday then 997 is no brainer.

    the 430 is a true exotic while the 997 is a great daily car. would be perfect to have both but if u can only pick one choose wisely. been there done that so i can feel ur pain.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    RC,
    just curious. have u driven the Lamborghini Murcielago yet?

    maybe it's just me. i drove one & hated it. maybe just me but it felt so damn heavy, handled poorly & uncomfortable to drive. car felt aged & the built quality is not there. can't beat the look though...

    that's just my person opinion. if i'm looking for a driver's Lambo i'd take the Gallardo anyday.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    I have bought new Porsches for 20 years , a new one every few years and after I sold me 996TT decided to wait for the 997TT . My neighbor just got a new 430 he like me has always had Porsches but when he traded in his 996TT for the 430 he said he never looked back . I have driven his new 430F1 several times and it is just incredible , I have never had anything close to the driving experience of that car . I know another person who went from a 360 spider to a 430 spider and he said the difference in the 2 cars is remarkable and this is a real breakthrough for Ferrari from performance to build quality . In the time I have been waiting for the 997TT I have tried to get a 430 but the over MSRP thing is just to much . If the car was MSRP I would not think twice about it , I am in Miami and the Spider is a perfect car for this part of the country .
    The dealers and brokers here in Miami tell me there are many long time Porsche buyers who are switching to Ferrari's now becuase of the 430 . Driving the car is really different from the Porsche I remember people telling me that but it did not really sink in till I drove it . RC have you driven the 430 ? Again I hear in europe people do not need to pay over sticker for the car and can have it in a few months , that is amazing . I am sure this car has put more than a little pressure for Porsche to really make sure the 997TT is one hell of a new reincarnation from the old 996TT and I hope it is as the wait for the 430 over here is ridicules .

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    The two cars are not even in the same price or class.

    It's like saying which would you want? A steak or a burger. Both will fill you up but price and prestige levels are totally different.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    If you could buy a 430 today with no wait at MSRP would you buy it over a 997 or would it still not be worth the extra money See a few long time Porsche buyers making the switch , and after driving the car I understand why .


    let me give you my story ,and experience ,it will provide some answers..
    for the last 5 years i have owned all the range of porsche and a 355 then a modena.. porsche is a great car ,its a tank ,its indestructible ,very well built ,easy to drive fast ,safe etc.. its IMO the best CAR available ,but ,its not a SUPERCAR anymore . to use the same comparison rc used ,porsche is a rolex ,but its no lange,neither patek philippe.
    i never really enjoyed my 355 ,it has always been a "sunday dress" for me , everything changed with the modena ,i got much more than i expected ,the car was amazing, everyday use ,very well built , it was perfect. during my porsche ownership i always became bored after few months of ownership ,and thats why i changed a lot and tried the whole range . i kept the modena 1 year(sold it 2 weeks back) ,and everyday pleasure was like the first day i drove it ,and maybe for the first time i felt sad when i sold it.
    i bought a f430 at msrp ,delivery in 3 month (the longest 3 month of my life).and i am very happy with my choice .and to confirm what you said , i will never ever look back...
    after all the porsche is a more rational buy ,but then cars for me are a passion and i buy them with my heart ,not with my brain. the ferrari is a supercar , it has the look , the exclusivity,the sound ,and the performance. i am sure the 997tt will have few milliseconds advantage over the 430, but i am no walter rohl ,and the 430 has a 4 sec 0 to 100 and 21.6 sec.standstill km. thats more than enough for me.
    yes i agree rolex is the best watch available ,but i hate the fact that half of the people around me are wearing one ,i will be much happier with an audemars piguet montoya limited edition..

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    Again I hear in europe people do not need to pay over sticker for the car and can have it in a few months , that is amazing .



    Hi I put down Pounds5000 ($8000) deposit on a F430 in October 2004 and I've been told I'll get it sometime in 2007. If i wanted to get a used one right now I would have to pay Pounds4-6K over list and that's in the trade. Am in the UK by the way.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    They may not be that far away in price when it comes to MSRP
    997TT 140K
    430 170K


    The cab and and spider will be more than the coupe and spider prices I listed above .... but when you are spending 150+ for a car what is another 25K remember the Ferrari has a higher resale than the Porsche so when you sell the car it may make up for a lot of that .. Again here is the US for most of us we can not get the car for MSRP but for those in Europe they can . I may be wrong but I thought the 430 could be bought in many places in Europe for MSRP that may not include the UK .

    Thanks dhayek I always believed with Porsche there was no substitute but the 430 drive changed all that . I now see what guys here like STRADALE and nberry were telling me when I started to look into the 430 . Again I am a long time Porsche guy no other cars for over 25 years but with the 430 this is a car that will pull me and many Porsche die hard over to the Ferrari platform . I must say the 996 was when I found myself looking around . Porsche really kind of dropped the ball in the looks department with that car and I got a little board and at the same time Ferrari came out with the 360 that was better looking it was like ...Now with the 430 spider looking so so good the Porsche has got some catching up to do with the 997TT cab , hope it really looks different than the 996TT cab and has the the 500+ hp we all are hoping for .
    [image]That sounds good .. seems a little too good to be true ... Made an offer on a triple black 430 spider and told them I could only pay 50k over sticker , they just laughed ... the dealers are still getting 100K over sticker for 430 spiders over here . If it was as easy as importing a car from dubai I would think they would be doing that . It is an interesting idea . There are really a lot of people here in the US buying Ferraris instead of Porsches now since the 360 and 430 models have come out . The 997 was a big improvement over the 996 but the car is still a bit boring , They have picked up a new crowd of buyers but are losing some of the people who were more on the cutting edge . You look at some of these peoples pictures that are buying them now and they live in suburbia with kids and the whole deal , really a new profile of buyer than from years ago .

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    If I could get one at MSRP and be able to spec it out and go to Italy to see it being made, yes I'd get a 430.


    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    The two cars are not even in the same price or class.

    It's like saying which would you want? A steak or a burger. Both will fill you up but price and prestige levels are totally different.



    Not in the same price range? An F430 costs 145k Euro in Europe, up from 138k. The 997 Turbo will cost over 130k Euro, so I'd say that yeah, they're in the same price range. Choosinmg between the two cars, I'll take the 997TTS. I can't afford two cars . I would want to have both if I could afford it though.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    I would definitely buy the F430, drive it for two years under warranty (they warranty track use also), then sell it for what I paid (and probably enough to cover tax & license). Only expense is insurance. 5yr waiting list here, so prices are very strong (over MSRP for years).

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    The problem with Porsche is that they have sold SO MANY cars that is not a DREAM car anymore. the example with Rolex and Patek or IWC is the perfect example..

    They have produced JEEP (cayenne,) small cheap car (boxster), Cayman (Boxster coupe), 911, Smaller Jeep as they say that they are going to make 4 doors car (Panamera).. in 5 years from now ALL the population is going to have a Porsche.

    10 years before if you could ask me which is a better and most desirable car a 993 Turbo or a 355 Gts i would say Porsche is a car for Fast men... all other cars are .....
    and I would DEFINETELY buy a 993 Turbo S.

    in the past years If you wanted to race, you had to take a Porsche if you wanted to go for tennis or Golf you could buy a Ferrari.
    Or even the "Bad boys" turbo was really wild car.

    Now ?? what happened now? they care ONLY FOR PROFITS.

    Is it Difficult for Ferrari to produce a very cheap car?!
    Is it difficult to produce a Jeep??? or a station sedan and destroy his reputation too as a sport brand ?!?!

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    The two cars are not even in the same price or class.

    It's like saying which would you want? A steak or a burger. Both will fill you up but price and prestige levels are totally different.



    Not in the same price range? An F430 costs 145k Euro in Europe, up from 138k. The 997 Turbo will cost over 130k Euro, so I'd say that yeah, they're in the same price range. Choosinmg between the two cars, I'll take the 997TTS. I can't afford two cars . I would want to have both if I could afford it though.



    I believe the original post mentioned only the 997, and not the TT. Yes the price gets close with those two... but the prestige level is still very different.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Hey OCEAN... your picture of a really dirty 997 TT and a sparkling new 430 Spyder isn't helping the situation!

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    If I want the most visceral driving experience, there is only one choice, the F430....on the other hand if I want the best all-around sports car to drive 365 days a year, it's the 996/997TT....my humble opinion

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Aixos: You are right and Porsche has gotten too much into thinking making more money and no longer making exclusive cars. As much as I love Porsches and have owned so many I am sad to see that there are so many of them on the streets. There was a time that a Porsche stood up anywhere but not anymore. The cheap models have made this delimma even worse. That's where Ferrari's rock, their exculsivity. While I am not crazy about the looks of some of the Ferraris, they are like a child that you love regardless.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    the 430 is night & day difference from 360, CS included. i was not impressed by my CS in terms of speed but man that's a sexy thing... still better looking than 430 IMO. i've put about 200 miles on my 430 i can tell it's hell lot faster than the previous CS. the updated F1 is much smoother. u can feel it's a much better built car compare to the 360, totally! i'd love to have a 6speed though just for the driving experience. F1 is boring after few drives. however, after few drives once u get used to the car u'll start to see its weakness. not its own fault but it's not a car u can really go to places park anywhere u want & u're always the foocus on the road... u get the idea.

    my situation is a little different since my ultimate weekend car is the CGT. nothing, i state, nothing is even close to that driving experience yet, period! jump from the CGT to 430 makes it feel like a daily beater, very easy to drive & it's a AUTO. for my purpose i really shouldn't have 2 true exotics therefore it helps me to see a better image. a 997 would fit my need better since i can really drive it daily.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Ah, yes, the good old days, when Porsche was an "exclusive" nameplate and didn't make cheap cars. That must have been when they were making cars like the 914, 924, and 944 (what I have). Porsche has ALWAYS been in a very different class then Ferrari with respect to prestige and price. It is no contest. Ferrari's have always much more exotic and extroverted styling as well. If you are disappointed that Porsche's are less exclusive now, well, it never really was much different. True, Porsche does make more cars now, but a 911 was never a rare, exotic car like almost all Ferraris are.

    Porsche is an independent company that needs to make a profit. Ferrari is the boutique crown jewel of Fiat. Maybe if Porsche did get bought up by MB in the early nineties they too could be a hyper-exclusive marque and not have to make the "cheap" cars that people like me aspire to.

    They are two very different companies that have to deal with two very different sets of circumstances.

    If I had the choice though, I would pick a 996 GT3 RS over all. That is a real driver's car IMO. The F430 and 997TT are more GT to me.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    20C4s: All I can say is you are one lucky man with so many blessings. Having so many cars of that caliber, would be pretty difficult as to which one to drive everyday, what a dilemma, the only kind that I would invite to my life with open arms

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    I have driven the lambo and I am sorry it's not worth the money. It's beautiful, fast, very fast but OMG why would you waste your money on that thing, I would take P-cars and ferraris over lambo's any time.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Porsche sales and quality went south in the early 90's. I thought they would get bought out by another company. 993 series brought Porsche back to life again and cheap P-cars are Boxters made Porsche pockers deeper and fuller than ever. With the birth of Porsche SUV, things even got better for Porsche but the streets got filled with the Stuttgart insginia. Porsche's became more desirable to people with small budgets and less desirable to the exotic car lovers. However the high end Porsches maintained Porsche's flagship.
    The irony is this, you see two people at a part both claim they are porsche drivers, both are labled as porsche drivers, but one drives a CGT and the other one a Boxter, same league? hardly!!! When it comes to Ferraris there is not such significant difference between the upper and lower models.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    I have driven the lambo and I am sorry it's not worth the money. It's beautiful, fast, very fast but OMG why would you waste your money on that thing, I would take P-cars and ferraris over lambo's any time.



    I have to disagree with you on that one. We have a gallardo at home(mainly used by my brother and his wife) and i prefer its driving experience over the 360. There is something about the way your cocooned in that seat that makes you feel like your driving a fighter jet of sorts . And from an aesthetic point of view i love the Lambo Murcielago think it is a gorgeous car. Yet I still have opted for the f430 over the Lambos since its a better investment and a little bit more exlcusive than the gallardo

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Lornezo I am not talking about Gallardo, I am talking about murcialgo which is almost twice the price. It's beautiful but to me not worth the $280K price tag. Gallardo is a gr8 bang for the bucks but too bad I have not found a 6 speed yet.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    20C4s: All I can say is you are one lucky man with so many blessings. Having so many cars of that caliber, would be pretty difficult as to which one to drive everyday, what a dilemma, the only kind that I would invite to my life with open arms



    indeed. i feel very lucky to experience all my childhood dreams at a fairly young age. i feel i must share my experience with people like me who loves cars so much & share the same passion. one thing for sure though owning a car today is much more exciting than 10, 20 years ago because we have places like this to share our passion & love. isn't that wonderful.

    i like to share my experience with others at the same time i'm learning new things everyday.

    Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............

    Indeed and we appreciate your experience and sharing your ideas and thoughts. Last week I was at starbucks and a CGT pulled up, the driver was pushing 70 and the co-driver was a 30 year old babe The driver was so afraid of parking close to the curb, the girl got out and guided him through. I have not driven a CGT but I hear it's not an easy car to drive. You know what I love that, a car that is easy to drive is like a woman who sleeps with everybody. I like a car that is not submissive and it takes time and skills to tame it. If that is CGT, than I am in love already.

     
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