Crown

Board: Ferrari Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    These look like a high top tennis shoe. The worst looking Ferrari even made.surprise


    --

    One of history's few iron laws is that luxuries tend to become necessities and to spawn new obligations.


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    The FF is a real nice car however the 3/4 rear view and the recessed tail lights are very controversial and my wife and I cannot get used to them even after 4 years. The Lusso might be better in real, but it hasn't really entirely addressed the issue.


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    If you like it that much maybe you should get it.


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    Damn!!!! I love this car so much I could probably sell some of mine cars  to just get it....


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    Live, it definitely looks better than on photos, this is for sure. I always liked the FF, never drove the GTC4 Lusso though (I suppose there isn't much difference) but if I had the money and were in the market for a four-seater GT with an amazing engine, this would be it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    bluelines:
    Those look 99.9% identical to me. Like a 911 facelift with new lights and air vents.

    Same here - I have to look into details. Otherwise I cant see any difference! 

     

     


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

     

     

     


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    I agree the FF looks more unique and interesting, but I like the GTC4 Lusso better.  I find it to look leaner, in particular the rear.  Again, the rear of the FF is more unique but it looks too massive.  And the new interior is amazing!


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    Check this out:

    https://www.netcarshow.com/ferrari/2017-gtc4_lusso_t/


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    KresoF1:

    Check this out:

    https://www.netcarshow.com/ferrari/2017-gtc4_lusso_t/

    Seems to be true...entry level model (yes, there will be two GTC4 now) of the GTC4 Lusso...the T with a de-tuned 488 engine.

    Price tag is rumored to be in the 488 range or even cheaper, which would be interesting.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    It's true, I just got it confirmed via email.

    Also look here: http://gtc4lussot.ferrari.com/de

    Nice rims BTW. Smiley


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    A very smart move . I would of even made  a lower entry level . A 4 seater Ferrari should be aimed at a bigger car market .


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    smart..and you get it as a rwd only if I got it right??...cooool car...


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    The RWD configuration is a mistake in my opinion but maybe AWD will be optional at some point? Smiley

    Any idea about the price tag so far? I even heard "under 200k EUR" this morning.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    I read a long and detailed critique of the GTC4 vs the FF on F Chat last night by a long time Ferrari owner. It is very clear that the new management team under the wooly jumper Sergio are implementing a widescale cost cutting programme and using cheaper materials all over the car. The difference in quality between these two models was quite eye opening.


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    ISUK:

    I read a long and detailed critique of the GTC4 vs the FF on F Chat last night by a long time Ferrari owner. It is very clear that the new management team under the wooly jumper Sergio are implementing a widescale cost cutting programme and using cheaper materials all over the car. The difference in quality between these two models was quite eye opening.

    I didn't expect anything else, apparently they want to raise their margin? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    Raising margin is ok provided you don't mock your customers intelligence. The detailed comparison photo's on the post show that Maranello are very much in danger of doing this. The seat backs are now plastic, the standard leather is of much lower quality, the entire front grille is plastic now, ditto the cavallino badge on it, cheap lightweight interior door handles etc. This is a very risky thing to do on a luxury product.


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    ISUK:

    Raising margin is ok provided you don't mock your customers intelligence. The detailed comparison photo's on the post show that Maranello are very much in danger of doing this. The seat backs are now plastic, the standard leather is of much lower quality, the entire front grille is plastic now, ditto the cavallino badge on it, cheap lightweight interior door handles etc. This is a very risky thing to do on a luxury product.

    Smiley I agree.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    Here's the final piece of the review angry

    but the car was pedal sluggish to the extreme. Good for a housewife or someone on their phone. It needs to be more fun. The suspension in Sport, needs to be more sporty. If you like the FF, or want a drivers car, this is not for you. If you want to cruise in more comfort with less feedback, and occasionally punch it and barely hear that screaming V12, get out the check.
     

    someone is enjoying using the flush handle at Maranelloheart

    Next up

     


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    Yep, even Ferrari are now dumbing down it seems and simply targeting wealth as opposed to wealthy enthusiasts laugh


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    ISUK: Could you please post that critique re GTC4 vs FF? Will be an interesting read for me as I am weighing options for buying a used FF. Thanks kiss

    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    ISUK:

    Yep, even Ferrari are now dumbing down it seems and simply targeting wealth as opposed to wealthy enthusiasts laugh

    I wonder how much new EU regulations regarding emissions (incl. noise levels) have something to do with this?


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    The regulations have very little to do with it I suspect. It is more to do with the fact that they are recognising our roads are ever more congested so performance is much less of a priority and the average driving skill level of their new customers is fairly low. Many buyers moving up the ladder have only known engines with a lot of torque relative to their overall output so are not used to having to use high revs to gain maximum performance. They want to barely brush the accelerator pedal to feel instant speed. You can see that trend with comments from new buyers of models like the 718. That is why people on boards like this are sadly now a minority for brands like Porsche and Ferrari.


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    ISUK:

    The regulations have very little to do with it I suspect. It is more to do with the fact that they are recognising our roads are ever more congested so performance is much less of a priority and the average driving skill level of their new customers is fairly low. Many buyers moving up the ladder have only known engines with a lot of torque relative to their overall output so are not used to having to use high revs to gain maximum performance. They want to barely brush the accelerator pedal to feel instant speed. You can see that trend with comments from new buyers of models like the 718. That is why people on boards like this are sadly now a minority for brands like Porsche and Ferrari.

    Those infamous 3%, right? Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    Upsa,

    The F Chat thread can be found here http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ff-gtc4lusso-f12/533125-gtc4-drive-inspection-review.html   I don't know if you need to be subscribed to see the comparison photo's.

    It's a very long post but for those who'd rather read it here than F chat here is the text -

    GTC4 Drive, Inspection and Review

    Preface: It was a really fun 4-5 hours with Ferrari Los Angeles, who are wonderful. Go drive the new car. Photos lie, and reviewers are paid off by cocktail parties and innate professional enthusiasm. Mostly, we can't know the driving dynamics and materials quality until we experience them for ourselves. Ideally drive Ferrari Four and GTC4 Lusso back to back, a couple of times as we did. Spend some time. Open the doors from inside and outside of the car, smell and touch the leather, use every switch and button sitting still and driving. Compare the rear hatch openings and the engine bays, and the open door side appearance while entering the vehicle ... right next to each other. Take the same highways and same twisties back to back. Look at them side by side and compare every angle. Do the A/B properly, as these are machines and a company that deserve it. Get past the excitement of the new, and past the biases you brought with you. I did that, and it was a blast. Some things changed, some didn't.

    My 2014 FF as comparison: 7500 miles, Capristo and X pipe. Stock otherwise. I drove my car back to back with a stock FF a year ago and I feel there is a touch more low RPM grunt with the X and cans. However that could be an illusion from the noise is makes.

    The Lusso: Certainly there are people who have argued Ferrari died with Enzo, or lost it's way after what we might call the Golden Age of Gated Shifting. Some might say that mandatory airbags or even Sergio were the end of Ferrari. I've felt certain the loss of Pinanfarina's design perspective was a moment of great change and potential negative, even if some of those people were added to the fold in Maranello. And Flavio Manzoni is certainly talented. Yet nothing in the storied history of Ferrari, maker of the greatest combustion engine cars the world will ever know, can equal the insidious betrayal of singular vision and dilute the passion which has been the Prancing Horse's calling card and roar ... as the corporation. Corporations are committees who compromise, not individuals who drive forward passionately with vision. They exist firstly for shareholders, not customers or clients, not really. They measure success in steady sales growth and design products for focus group tested features. The corporation may be a person in law, yet they can't test drive a car, or approve a design like an individual can. Corporations have no ethical compass and every decision can ultimately be blamed on the need for growth, or someone else. No one person is responsible for anything. This ethos is Anti Ferrari, 100%. Corporations are the Borg (for you Star Trekkies) and the Borg have arrived with the GTC4 Lusso. A car as convoluted and as stuck in the corporate mire of trying too hard to sell itself on features, as it's long name implies. It's purpose is features. A checklist of FF complaints. Yet a Ferrari needs a singular identity, and the Lusso lacks one. Features sell this car, not quality of build or joyful driving dynamics that we expect from Ferrari. It's truly like they gave a checklist from the FF to a room full of designers, and said "you take the front, you take the rear, you take the infotainment, etc" yet no one ever intervened to say ... whats the vision of this car as a whole? How does it feel for the driver? No oversight here except the accountants and the marketing people maybe, because it's full of cheaper and more obvious plastics, generic flimsy or too hard to push switches, lighter doors, and more bells and whistles than anything they have ever made, yet somehow not integrated, not elegant, and not fun around town. Yes, it was actually worse than I expected in many ways. In some ways better, but it's a short list of positives to come below. I apologized many times to the dealer, who was happy for the FF at the end of my day. I gave him plenty of selling points.

    I would argue that the car also lacks lusso or luxury, because the material quality is a step back from the FF/F12 era. More plastic, cheaper leather, light metal, buttons and knobs that don't seem custom designed or well laid out. I don't get Rolls or Bentley quality from the materials. Again, features sell this car, not integrity. Drives like a Porsche, if Porsche had a V12 in a low to the ground SUV sized chassis. Do you like Porsche dynamics? This has that around town, then is a Ferrari with the pedal down, almost. Still too soft.

    You might think this is one opinion only, and the cars have sold well, and you would be right in both cases! The Lusso is so full of bells and whistles that are exciting at first glance that it's hard to deny the car's excitement as we see in the sales and reviews ... because it was designed to sell itself on features not integrity as a driver's Ferrari. It is very exciting at first. So much to do inside and so much to see on every surface outside, and that V12 sound and power we all love to hear scream! Woo hoo! Take my money! Yet as we look closer, and think deeper about the car, it falls apart if you are a driver, and not a rider. If you appreciate quality details and not just features. It's a corporate feeling car lacking finesse, quality materials, ultimately lacking in luxury. Marketing win, drivers loss.

    An interesting thing happened as I was nearing the end of my many hours with the new product Friday. A man in an older Toyota Camry, white, 50s, in a loose tie, who said he worked across the street ... made the same analysis, with one glance. He was doing a little U-Turn in the dealership lot, as traffic was bad on a Friday, and he saw me notice his puzzled glances back at the car. "What were they thinking?", he offered. I paused, said nothing about my opinions, and I asked what he meant by that. After a long pause, he said quietly, "they jumped the shark". And I agree. Would not be surprised if Luca left over this one car's design brief. It's that lacking in Ferrari elegance, driver experience and integrity of vision.

    For those who don't know the term "jumped the shark", a popular 70s TV show called Happy Days had an episode later in it's run, in 1977, where a primary character on water skis was pulled by boat over a ramp with shark circling below, in an act of bravado. It was all very dramatic, and done for sweeps week ratings that TV season. It was stupid, and out of integrity for that character, but alas, the show had run it's course Since then, anyone trying too hard and acting out of integrity to get your attention is "jumping the shark". This car is hopefully not the end of iconic things from RACE, but it better be a wake up call. Because excited reviews and sales are short term, the legacy and integrity of the brand are it's long term real value. And that will, in time, effect the short term if they keep this up.

    Overview conclusion: If you love the FF, you won't like it. If you have never owned a Ferrari, please don't drive it thinking you know Ferrari DNA. This is a car for housewives or men who have no idea what Ferrari driving is all about. The first car released post IPO, is worse than I expected. I really wanted to be wrong. I did. I love Ferrari in all it's years and changes. I just think they are run by accountants and marketing people now and are making compromising decisions. The only thing about the Lusso that says Ferrari is the rear cavallino. And the engine at full throttle.

    The front horse ... get ready for this ... is made of plastic. Yes ... ugly, tacky and cheap plastic. And speaking of plastic ... the entire front grill screams plastic from 8 feet away. It's easy to see the sheen of these cheap, unpainted parts. The FF and F12 have plastic also but unless you come close and touch it you can't tell. They use better quality plastic, have a metal cavallino, an aluminum grill. This grille is so cheap that it should stop any self respecting Ferrari buyer, or luxury car lover in their tracks. Also, both the front lip and rear spoiler underhang around the exhaust on the Lusso can be easily bent with a gentle push and pull. Cheap ... like the feel of the buttons and the switches inside. The metal doors, door handles, handle mechanism and hood? Cheap. Change is constant. Ferrari designing by committee and putting out a soft car not deserving of the badge is new. This car is a money maker for RACE because there are feature additions but not a ton of money spent in the build and details. They cut back there to make up for the screens. It's a gimmick, not a quality machine. I'm sorry to say it. It has looked cheap from day one, and it was worse than expected.

    Any positives?

    The rear end is actually cooler in person and I like it. It's horizontal lines are lower than the FF, giving a sporty look. The one trade off is the hatch opening, which is taller in the middle, yet not as tall on the sides. Looks smaller but measures very close. This rear hatch opening is perhaps the one rounded line on the car. Most of the Lusso is squared off, from the hood and roof horizontal lines, to the front and rear bumper lines. This makes the car look smaller than the FF, even as it's not. Looking at the Lusso vs the 30 other cars at the dealership, it didn't hold up however. It looks like less of a design masterpiece. More like a standard wagon and more like other marques.

    Seat Comfort - definitely equal or maybe better. Subjective to your body. Again, go drive it. I have Daytona seats and I like them a lot, no complaints. Lusso stock seat better comfort than FF? I think that's likely, I have daytona. Except the leather is not as nice.

    Back to the negatives ... rear lights. Corvette. Lit up red and yellow blinkers on the outside these look like an aftermarket lighting gimmick to me, not a forward thinking Ferrari design.

    Metalwork overall, cheaper. Door Handle feel and door Weight - lighter doors and lighter hood although longer by 1.5", door pulls are junk.

    Leather - cheaper in the GTC4 by some margin from the FF, cheap like the Cali T. This is not finest top grain leather: no smell, no hand, no thickness.

    Seat design - I have no idea what people see in this design, the side of the seat for starters exposes a ton of plastic. I don't want to open my door and see plastic. The seats have these large black gaps that are just dumb. The plastic on the sides is the worst of it though.

    Exterior Design. Fender fins are good for the engine heat. Really convoluted design overall however. Way too much going on, with the hood, and every surface area. It's as if the look is trying too hard to sell the car. And that makes sense because the ride is very smooth, lacking any vitality until you hit 5-6k then it's a wild horse unsuited to the normal driver with a rear end steering that gets wild in a heartbeat. Will anyone take this car to the track, really? This tech in a TDF makes sense, here it has one positive, a better U Turn radius, That is a weak point in the FF and it's solved. It's now more like a Mercedes, just like the rest of the interior with a million buttons to push and cheaper materials by the year.

    Exterior sides ... plastic lower section on each side is very fat, and goes 8" under the car front and rear ... and that again, looks like textured plastic from 8 feet away. The FF is also plastic on the rocker sides but you can't tell by looking at it from a distace.

    Interior Design I have said before is busy and lacks elegance. Not simple or intuitive to drive and push buttons/turn knobs. I hate the (various, clashing) fonts on everything, the digital and analog visuals are cheaper looking and they don't flow. I never use the screen or radio so I don't care about those obvious upgrades. Those screens are what are selling this car, and it's a "new" car.

    FF is an A- ... the minus for infotainment. Lusso is a B- interior based on convoluted design and cheaper everything, that would be a C if not for the upgraded infotainment. The interior of this car does not scream or even whisper quality. It's messy, complex to use, and annoying. There was no "sense of occasion" as Chris Harris has famously said. It screams "buy me and love me because I have features galore ... even if I lack elegance, material quality and driver focused simplicity"

    Interior materials quality. Cheap everything. Nothing feels good. Even the paint on the Start/Stop is a different red that looks cheaper, rear view mirror too. If the car was 225,000 with a V8TT and no rear wheel steering, it would make sense. Yet compared to the 25 other Fcars at the dealer it did not hold up as a worthy member of the Ferrari family. 458, 488, TDF, 430, even Cali T, definitely FF, nevermind used Rolls all seem like higher quality builds. The Ferrari Four is an italian handbag with a rocket ship engine and road feel, that happens to do 4WD occasionally ... and this is a car with features galore that don't come together as a Ferrari. A car like every car, that has a Ferrari powertrain that goes from sedate to screamer with not much road feedback and fun around town.

    So really ... not a new FF, it's a totally different experience. I hope a new Fcar owner drives a 458 or FF or 599 or 430 or F12 or ANYTHING before this as their first Fcar.


    Engine. 30 HP not noticed for 90% of driving, more docile pedal until above 5500 or 6k, then it rips. Feels softer and thus slower at low RPM than my FF. Rear wheel steering makes it feel smaller in hard turns and a bit wild in an on ramp at very hard throttle in Sport. It's not a better driving experience. I don't want a smooth Porsche. This is like a modern rear wheel Porsche on the track, and the FF is a 458. Boring lusso. Maybe a little faster, but boring. If they want to do luxury upgrade the material quality, please.

    I could get used to that rear wheel feeling but I don't think I want to bother. It's not a track car. Getting back in the FF that same on ramp was more predictable, even as the car's limits came on sooner. I would prefer a little oversteer to a rear end that has a mind of it's own back there. Again this feature is a sales trick, "lets throw in that TDF rear wheel steering!" yea ... ok. As if I need to go faster than the FF and corner better on the track? Only on a couple of high speed corners was it fun. It's a too heavy track car, the real wheel makes no sense, except for U Turns. Those are better. Feeling a touch smaller in hard corners is nice, but comes at the expense of being less predictable. The FF feels more planted even as it's on paper worse. U Turns are better. Rear wheel feature is thus a wash.

    Transmission- Improved in 1st gear coasting down at slow speeds, FF is a little jerky. Although ... at the expense of feeling like a Ferrari in normal city driving. No wild horses here, until 5500. I had to depress what felt like 1/2 pedal just to get it going from a stop in Comfort. Really sluggish. Overall feeling of pedal, brake and steering is sedate and non Ferrari. Not fun at all until you lay into it. The FF feels like a muscle car, a bigger 458, in comparison. More responsive, more feedback, quicker everything. The FF is a great first Ferrari as it gives the Fcar experience, and is half price of new, and is still practical. The Lusso is for someone with other Ferrari, who really wants to overpay for something that says Ferrari and is no better than the cheaper competition in most daily driving conditions, and no better built.

    Suspension - softer in Sport than I'm used to in Comfort with +3 PSI cold in the FF, 39/36. Never really gets tight in Sport and gives the road feel I want. Makes the FF seem like a beast at all speeds, far more fun to drive. Comfort mode is ok for long drives maybe, but I was ok in Sport on a rough highway. I wanted more stiffness as an option, and there is no more to be had. Maybe +4 PSI would have helped, I was over it by then. Sport bumpy made less sense.

    Insulation - yes, more quiet. Road noise/tire noise and exhaust is down. Better for quiet long trips for some people. I don't care about this. I get out of the FF refreshed, and ready to go again. I mostly do longer drives, it's a monster and so much fun.

    Wheels/wheel well gaps - 5 spoke Lusso wheels look very good, and the wheel seats up in a little better in the wheel well, looks to have less space around them than the FF that needs a little drop and or wider wheel to fill it out as much. Lusso works better there.

    Steering Wheel Design. I hate it. It's lacking class or subtlety, clunky and ugly fonts, and the mannetino itself looks cheap, is lighter weight, and wiggles more in all positions ... it's all seeming to be made for an idiot driver not a real driver. Feels like a video game console. Turn signals are annoyingly fat, require a lot more pressure to engage plus more physical distance to activate. And it now has two physical stages ... Stage 1=press maybe 1/8" for 3 blinks/off, Stage 2= press through step 1 click on to a second step, maybe 1/4" ... this is to Blink w no off until turning wheel. Cheap, dumb, annoying. A wheel made for idiots, not drivers who want quality and effortlessness. The FFs small turn buttons are quality feeling and light and require maybe 1/16" press to activate. Hold down for 3 blinks, Click once quickly for blink through turn. So much easier, so much smarter and so much cooler. Quality design. Centered horn is maybe better for some. I can go either way on that. Just learn your car people ... or sell it to someone who will appreciate it.

    Fonts on the wheel and the new LED screens - hate these, seems cheap and corporate and generic ... not well considered, does not relate to the whole or feel like $400,000.

    Exhaust:
    Start up sound. Deeper. Close to Capristo with X yet not as loud. Good.
    High rev Sound. Screams, not F1 but in a good range. More open than FF at high revs. Have to crack the window to hear it Good sound.
    Overall impression. Better exhaust, and not as loud in the cabin at all times. Insulation.

    AC vents and flow:
    No increase noticed and same volume as before.
    I still want a setting BETWEEN 1 and 2. Didn't solve that.
    AC buttons, an ugly font, and harder to operate. Pushing the fan button with a + or - and looking up at the screen for a number? Is this a rental car Chevy? The FF analog feel and simple dots on the fan etc, is so elegant. It's far easier to use quickly and thus safer and it looks more clean. The Lusso dash is a mess. The size and location of all the buttons is like an Easter Egg hunt, not an intuitive art piece. Nothing about the placement of the dash buttons was intuitive or elegant to the line of sight. The screen throws off everything intuitive about the rest of the buttons and switches for the driver.

    The only really dumb button on the FF is the thin passenger door where the screen is supposed to go. The Lusso is full of dumb buttons.

    Screen and Passenger display. I don't care. It's an upgrade if you do care, and a HUGE one. I think it takes up a lot of room, and is a gimmick I don't need in a Ferrari. Again, bells and whistles galore in this car for you and your kids, but no love for the driver unless you take it to the track or go 70 MPH up an on ramp in 2nd gear, which was fun, and planted better ... but touchy rear wheel dynamics that need to be learned.

    Overall impression, this is not a new FF ... it's a totally new car in the same footprint. Personally it's as expected more or less ... I want nothing to do with it. It was too tame a pedal most of the time, too soft a ride, and then crazy power comes on with rear wheel steering in corners. Getting back in the FF everything was visually superior, more calm, better quality of materials, the ride was more fun and had more feedback, yes that means bumpy and louder ... and also the FF is more predictable and JOYFUL. I had no joy in the Lusso, it's just another car, that feels like it's overpriced, feels and looks not hand made, and not really a Ferrari. Slamming it down and cornering it would make a good track car. It really would. And that's the weirdest part. It's best feature is being a very heavy track car. It's trying to be all things, and I get that, but somehow this concept can go too far in the extremes. They have lost the plot of the driving experience being exciting, effortless and fun ... as a daily driver in most normal conditions where you want to push it and enjoy. I wouldn't take a new one for an even swap from my FF. Or plus cash. Feels like a corporate trick to get me to buy it based on features.

    V8TT option - this would make a lot of sense for this car, more sense than the V12. The car is not up to the V12 build standards of quality.

    Why is this car popular? It's a new Ferrari. There are features upgrades from the FF for the daily driver. The styling is less polarizing ... except the font end and side sill plastic is cheap/gross, and people have missed this. Why is this car not going to hold up over time. It's cheaply built, it's not timelessly styled on the inside or out, it's going to be a TTV8 in the same markets by all accounts.

    Summary: 458, F12 ,430, etc, all look and feel more Ferrari than this corporate gimmick on wheels. The fit and finish and quality of materials has to go up when these leave the factory and I hope it does. Metal cavelllino please, thicker metal, thicker plastic, doors that close with a feeling that we all know when we feel it, better door handles. Knobs and switches not so cheap. Fonts that are artfully coordinate with each other, not just off the shelf parts.

    And maybe it was the 12000 miles of test drivers being conservative nannies, but the car was pedal sluggish to the extreme. Good for a housewife or someone on their phone. It needs to be more fun. The suspension in Sport, needs to be more sporty. If you like the FF, or want a drivers car, this is not for you. If you want to cruise in more comfort with less feedback, and occasionally punch it and barely hear that screaming V12, get out the check.

    I can't stress enough, that it's really not a new FF, even as that's the frame and that's the comparison here ... it's a whole new product. Exactly as it seemed at first, a product designed around selling features, not the Ferrari driving experience or quality of a hand made luxury car.


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    RC:
     

    Those infamous 3%, right? Smiley Smiley

     Right Smiley


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    RC:
    ISUK:

    Yep, even Ferrari are now dumbing down it seems and simply targeting wealth as opposed to wealthy enthusiasts laugh

    I wonder how much new EU regulations regarding emissions (incl. noise levels) have something to do with this?

    It'll have more to do with the fact that Ferrari has now been floated as an independent company on the NY stock exchange, making its accounts and balance sheet more transparent than was the case under the FIAT wing and its management more directly accountable to shareholders. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    Well i said it before, FF styling is pure Italian, a lot of the styling cues are there simply because Italians wanted them there.

    Russo however is styled liker a Japanese car, efficient and bland. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Ferrari FF / GTC4Lusso

    Efficient and bland works for me. Same overall design, but a modest improvement on the front end and a massive improvement inside. FF looks dated by comparison. Front grill, whether plastic or not, looks much more modern.

    On the plus side, the Lusso T is lighter, has a lot more torque, will get better mileage, and should have the same performance. No AWD, of course, but maybe some will like that.


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 2/24/18 1:51 PM
    Gnil
    264425 1712
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 2/23/18 9:04 PM
    Topspeed
    262478 4156
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 2/24/18 9:19 AM
    Moser
    91307 1523
    Porsche Sticky 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) 2/24/18 6:14 PM
    pmarkow
    70065 968
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 2/24/18 2:53 PM
    LP997
    0 362
    Porsche 918 latest news Thread Closed 11/6/17 10:43 AM
    RCA
    549318 5574
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS 1/9/18 1:43 PM
    Kimi
    457406 5816
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 2/9/18 9:50 PM
    MKSGRM
    447062 4251
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche Carrera 911 [991.2] Facelift 3/24/17 12:49 PM
    RCA
    255527 1382
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 1/4/18 9:14 PM
    wurlie
    247866 2558
    Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0 3/15/17 10:40 PM
    noone1
     
     
     
     
     
    231488 737
    Porsche Cayman GT4 12/30/17 11:07 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    213924 2482
    Porsche 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip Thread Closed 7/3/17 2:04 PM
    RCA
    175715 1699
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/22/18 8:37 AM
    RCA
     
     
     
     
     
    165804 938
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S 1/23/18 12:27 AM
    RCA
    165055 1074
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 2/24/18 11:37 AM
    crayphile
    142925 1403
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/8/18 2:35 AM
    rhino
    139945 2901
    Porsche 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed 3/7/17 11:47 AM
    RCA
    125291 1651
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 12/29/17 8:31 AM
    dreamcar
    111398 692
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 1/6/18 10:41 PM
    Wonderbar
    108185 1284
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 2/11/18 12:00 AM
    Topspeed
    105758 1870
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 12/5/17 3:29 PM
    RCA
    87776 765
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 7/10/17 2:36 PM
    RCA
    81989 861
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 718 Boxster (2016) 10/20/17 11:17 AM
    DaveGordon
    81862 732
    Porsche 991 GTS 4/3/17 4:27 PM
    bluelines
    68923 247
    Porsche OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014 3/2/17 4:22 PM
    RCA
    67725 163
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 (facelift) Carrera 4 and Carrera 4S 3/30/17 7:33 PM
    Carlos from SpainM
    60729 131
    McLaren F1 8/23/17 11:10 AM
    Carlos from SpainM
    49752 202
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 12/27/17 10:34 PM
    rhino
    46698 638
    Porsche UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne 2/6/18 2:13 PM
    RCA
    42162 423
    358 items found, displaying 1 to 30.