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    991 and Michelin

    Does anybody know why the 991 does not come with Michelin tires??? From what I have seen they either are Bridgestone or Pirellis... My business partner just bought a Ferrari 458 Italia and it came equipped with the Michelin Pilot Super Sport and they are great... What happened to Porsche??? My 997.2 and my Panamera GTS both came with Michelin Pilot Sport, why not the 991????


    --

     

    2011 Porsche Carrera 4S Platinum Silver
    2013 Porsche Panamera GTS Basalt Black

    “The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” 
    ― Bob Marley


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    Just rumours, but what I've heared is that Michelin wanted Porsche to N-rate the new Pilot SuperSport for all corresponding P. models before 991 launch but P. denied it or wanted to do that later at least. This may be one of the reasons, why they didn't reached an OEM agreement.

    Anyhow, I don't care about N specifications and ordered a new set of SuperSports this week.


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    Smart guy!


    --

     

    2011 Porsche Carrera 4S Platinum Silver
    2013 Porsche Panamera GTS Basalt Black

    “The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” 
    ― Bob Marley


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    Have seen Pilots, P-Zeros, and Goodyear F1s on 991s at various dealerships in the States.


    --
     


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    Holminator:

    Have seen Pilots, P-Zeros, and Goodyear F1s on 991s at various dealerships in the States.
     

     was it Pilot Super Sports?

    not seen in UK yet on new 991s.


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    I hate the Pirelli PZero. I had it on my 997 Carrera GTS Cab and I have it on my Panamera Turbo S now.

    While the PZero is a great and sporty tire at higher temperatures, it becomes pretty unpredictable and slippery at lower temperatures and I am talking about temperatures below 25-20° C. On wet pavement, the PZero is quite unpleasant to drive.

    I am thinking of switching to Michelin next summer, the PZero just annoys me (especially since we have temperatures under 20°C right now in Germany).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    ag23:

    Smart guy!

    Not really since the N-rated tires are usually adapted to the different weight distribution of that specific Porsche model, especially on the 911. You won't feel a difference until it comes to driving at the limit and other issues like driving on wet pavement and so on.

    To each his own I guess... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    At my dealership the other day I also noticed only P-Zero (No thanks) and Goodyear (you have to be kidding??). From the way RC describes the P-Zero I would hazard that in cold weather or wet my dreaded (cheap) DWS Contis would be very competitive.

    I obviously like that folks are not taking the N-rating that seriously (some) and seeing it for the marketing gimick it has become (to some degree it made more sense in the past when Porsche had some pretty odd sizes compared t othe rest of the cars on the road.).

    Like the Non-N Pilot, there are a few good tires not being used due to lack of 'agreements' being paid to Porsche.  I hope  Michelin has figured out they can sell tires without the 'official' N-rating.  Good for them.

    By far the biggest problem faced when driving at the limit, IMHO, are the stock shocks - which are crap after 50K miles.  I can't stress this enough.  Few things matter more than keeping the tire on the ground consistently, regardless of tires.  Put some new shocks (NON PASM!) on your 997 and you will not think the 991 rides so well.  It will transform the 997.

    All that said - I am really wondering why Michelin is still not N-rated for the 991????  If money were no object and I only drove my 997 in perfect weather I would ONLY buy the Pilot Super sports (even if not N-rated).


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    Leawood911:

    Goodyear (you have to be kidding??).

     I have them on my 19" wheels on my 981S .. useless pieces of junk in spirited driving


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    sfo:
    Leawood911:

    Goodyear (you have to be kidding??).

     I have them on my 19" wheels on my 981S .. useless pieces of junk in spirited driving

    You have to warm them up, lol - on molten lava.  They are a good example of why I question the N-rating in the first place.  How can such a crap tire have it when the Pilot does not?  Are Porsche saying the Goodyear is the better, more suited tire and the Pilots are not safe?  That is what RC thinks they are saying.

     


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    Leawood911:

    You have to warm them up, lol - on molten lava. 

    they were poor when warm/hot .. squigy, squealy and downright horrible when the going got tough in the Alps in warm weather


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    I can only talk about the Pirelli PZero on the 997 Carrera GTS and the same tire on the Panamera Turbo S: Both are horrible, not really good tires. Unless of course you live in a region with perfectly dry and warm weather.

    Why did Porsche actually approve them for their cars? Another mystery for me. I don't know many spirited drivers who actually like the Pirelli PZero on their Porsche but maybe it is a money thing angry...I really don't know.  yes

    My experience with Michelin tires has been very positive in the past but the one with Pirelli tires not so much. My first PZero on a Porsche, on my 996 Turbo, actually started to self-dissolve itself (no kidding), it was a well known issue by that time and a safety issue too.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    FYI the 991S I just picked up came with the Pirelli's. My understanding is that all US 991S's are coming that way. My info may be incorrect.


    --

    '13 991S - Plat/Silver-PDK-PDCC-PASM-SC-PSE-CS whl/plat


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    I think P Zeros are the only 20" tyres used OEM on 991 and 981 so far.


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    I say sod the N-rating!!  When I change the tyres on my 997 GTS they will be Super Sports... whether N-rated or not!!

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    John H:

    I say sod the N-rating!!  When I change the tyres on my 997 GTS they will be Super Sports... whether N-rated or not!!

     

    I might do this as well .  Sod N-rating in this case Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    agree that ignoring lack of N rating is fine, but only if the load ratings are the same


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    MICHELIN PILOT SUPER SPORT UK LAUNCH, SILVERSTONE...

    (May 2011)

    We threw open the doors to our Pilot Super Sport test at the Porsche Performance Driving Centre, Silverstone in the first week of May and took a group of enthusiastic drivers behind the curtain to try our tyres against the opposition. And if that wasn’t enough of a risk, we chose some people from this country’s most popular and influential motoring forums like Piston Heads plus single marque forums such as Audi, BMW, Ferrari, Jaguar and Porsche.
     
    Around 30 drivers were chosen from almost 1,000 entries to be given the unique chance to drive and be driven by experts in a variety of high performance cars such as Porsche 911C 2S, 911 GTS, 911 Carrera 4S, Cayman RS and Boxster S on the dry handling courses plus BWM 325I Coupe and Audi TT on the wet handling section.
     
    The Porsche Performance Driving Centre is probably the only place of its kind in the UK as it offers a wide variety of surfaces and configurations and can artificially simulate conditions such as sheet ice, fresh snow and wet leaves, so our testers were able to give the Pilot Super Sports the ultimate consumer test.
     
    So what did the 'Tyre Testers' think of the MICHELIN Pilot Super Sports?
     
    BMW M3 CSL driver Nathan Bell, who  heard about the test on the Piston Heads forum said: “Michelin must be very confident in its product to let us compare it with five other makes in a true performance test, so I’m very impressed to have been given this chance to go behind the scenes and go tyre testing.”
     
    Asking people to become an expert for a day, was a challenging move as Sean Millar, another  Piston Heads forum user explains: “I wasn’t sure what would be expected of me as I drove down to Silverstone and wondered if I was good enough as a driver to be able to tell the difference between two brands of tyre. It was amazing how the Michelins felt by comparison to other makes and I felt much more confident to push the car shod with Pilot Super Sports.”
     
    Not everyone at the test would describe themselves as a ‘petrol head’ and some of the drivers had never even been on a track day, like BMW 330d driver Hayat Shafi, “I am a pharmacist and cover around 50,000 miles a year and have used different brands of tyre in the past, so it’s very interesting to have the unique opportunity to try a range of tyres against Michelin.” He found the dry handling section particularly insightful, “I could really feel the difference between the two makes of tyre, just through feedback through the steering wheel.”
     
    Although we used high performance cars and an out-and-out test track environment, our testers did not have to drive flat out to feel the difference between the tyre makes: ““Beforehand I wondered if I would be able to feel much of a comparison between two brands of tyres, but even at a relatively easy pace there was an unbelievable difference” said BMW M3 driver Martin Hull. “The Bridgestone tyres made the car feel very floaty, whereas on the Michelins the car felt much more connected to the track and made it feel much smoother to drive.”
     
    The group responded to the wet and dry conditions in different ways, some finding the wet course giving greater feedback than dry and others totally the opposite! Harvey Neale from Ferrari Club Scuderia liked the dry course best, saying: “I was able to compare the Pilot Super Sports against Dunlops. However, the Dunlops made me feel like a poor driver and did not give me confidence behind the wheel as they had no consistency. I couldn’t believe how much the difference felt compared to the Pilot Super Sports in the dry test. The wet test was also interesting although the difference between the two makes was more marginal.”
     
    Our testers for one day definitely had a rare opportunity to make a proper comparison as Nicholas Moran from the Piston Heads forum said: “I have learnt a lot from coming here as I have been able to drive on so many different surfaces and in both wet and dry conditions so can feel so much more about the tyre’s performance than if Michelin just had sent me down to my local tyre fitter and bolted on a set of Super Sports to drive on my local roads.”
     
    Feedback on forums is a very important source of information about tyre choice but as Jaguar Type S R driver Keiron Fanning from the Jaguar forum commented, “forums are full of opinions which is why they are good fun but you can never be sure people have had the actual experience to back up their comments. After today and the opportunity Michelin has given us to try its tyres against other makes, I feel we can all talk with a good level of knowledge and with some authority.”
     
    A view summed up by reigning Michelin Porsche Carrera Cup champion Tim Harvey, who came to the test to talk to all our testers between the track sessions: “I found the comments very interesting from everyone taking part as they all felt able to really put the product to the ultimate test and give really strong feedback to their mates on the forums.”
     
    Telemetry on the cars used in all the Wet Braking tests recorded the results in every session and Michelin Pilot Super Sport out performed a comparison brand by almost 2 metres.
     
    There was a treat for everyone at the end of the all the hard work behind the wheel, when Porsche’s team of racing instructors gave hot laps in some mouth watering cars such as the stunning 550bhp Lamborghini Gallardo Balboni RWD special edition; BMW M3 Coupe V8; Porsche 911 Turbo S and Audi R8.

    MICHELIN PILOT SUPER SPORT UK LAUNCH, SILVERSTONE -- Press Release -- May 2011

     
     

    ...so Porsche, what are we waiting for?!?!?

    Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    John H:

    I say sod the N-rating!!  When I change the tyres on my 997 GTS they will be Super Sports... whether N-rated or not!!

    Same here.  Porsche really needs a wake-up call on this.  Smiley


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    What I don't understand is that before the client delivery , the 991 was with Michelin ( press days and that test at the Silverstone )

    So the Michelin PS were ' approved' for the car at one stage .  

    yes


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    Today, at around 14°C and a slightly wet street, I did some PZero testing again and was disappointed...again. These tires are really not good on cold/wet. The car showed extreme oversteer (actually they just slipped straight) and I had to correct the course of the car by actually provoking a sudden oversteer, otherwise I would have landed in the grass.

    If you wonder: I never tried these tires at lower temperatures (below 20°C or on wet  or slightly wet pavement) because the weather has always been nice over here or I just didn't have the time to drive. Very strange setup for a car like the Panamera Turbo S, I have to admit.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    I don't understand why your PANAM Turbo S came with PZero and my PANAM GTS came with the Pilot Sport....


    --

     

    2011 Porsche Carrera 4S Platinum Silver
    2013 Porsche Panamera GTS Basalt Black

    “The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” 
    ― Bob Marley


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    ag23:

    I don't understand why your PANAM Turbo S came with PZero and my PANAM GTS came with the Pilot Sport....

    Porsche has multiple sources for tyres for each model. New cars are fitted with a tyre set of the brand that gets delivered to the assembly line when the car comes along. The buyer or dealer cannot influence the choice of tyre brand, only the type of wheel rim. 
    With a choice of 3 or maybe 4 tyre manufacturers it would surely be a logistical nightmare to try to ensure that each customer got his preferred brand. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    Very well said, fritz. However: The PZero really stinks at lower temperatures and it is a pretty bad tire on wet pavement.

    I also don't understand Porsche's setup of the AWD/PTM system on the Panamera Turbo S: I get it, people want to have fun in their cars but the Panamera is a sedan for god's sake, not a 911. The AWD models at Porsche should have a neutral setup but instead, they behave almost like the RWD models, which can be a pain in the a.. if you just want to be fast without a sweat. Neutral is the word, especially on wet pavement. 

    Weissach needs to take a different approach for the AWD models because otherwise, I can actually drive a RWD model, no need for AWD.  I loved the AWD setup on my 996 Turbo, not at all on my 997 Turbo.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    When the 996 Turbo was the current model, many owners and journalists complained that it was too neutral and outside the Porsche handling norm. In response on the 997 Turbo, Porsche gave it more rear bias and again some people are not happy for the opposite reasons.

    I wonder why Porsche don't offer several settings selectable by the driver depending on roads, weather and mood. An optional extra at a cost, as usual. Perhaps, on the upcoming 991 Turbo?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    reginos:

    When the 996 Turbo was the current model, many owners and journalists complained that it was too neutral and outside the Porsche handling norm. In response on the 997 Turbo, Porsche gave it more rear bias and again some people are not happy for the opposite reasons.

    I wonder why Porsche don't offer several settings selectable by the driver depending on roads, weather and mood. An optional extra at a cost, as usual. Perhaps, on the upcoming 991 Turbo?


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Yes, I remember. Unfortunately Porsche listens too much to car journalists and to some customers, who think that the sensation of being fast is actually more important than actually being fast. Smiley If I choose an AWD model, I want safety too.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    Just took delivery of my first P, 991 C2.  Was disappointed that P Zeros were on the car.  Even the salesman warned me to warm up the tires in cold weather.  I put Pilot Super Sports on my previous car last year - what a difference in grip,  ride, and quiet.

    Only driven the 911 a hundred miles so far due to snow.

    Trying to decide whether to wear out the Zeros or get Pilot Super Sports now.


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    This is one of my issues with Porsche - why can"t we specify the tyre we want on a new car? I am encouraged to spec everything else, but not my tyre choice and yet it is one of the major influences on the way a car rides,handles and brakes.


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    OBG:

    Just took delivery of my first P, 991 C2.  Was disappointed that P Zeros were on the car.  Even the salesman warned me to warm up the tires in cold weather.  I put Pilot Super Sports on my previous car last year - what a difference in grip,  ride, and quiet.

    Only driven the 911 a hundred miles so far due to snow.

    Trying to decide whether to wear out the Zeros or get Pilot Super Sports now.

    Yes, I'm not a friend of the Pirellis myself. Smiley

    I have the Pirelli Sottozero Winter tire on my Panamera Turbo S and actually thought this is a good winter tire (in comparison to the summer tire PZero, which I don't like much because it really needs higher temperatures to be good enough) until I actually started to drive the Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D on my Cayenne GTS. Compared to the Dunlop, the Sottozero is real crap. I know that it is difficult to compare the Panamera to the Cayenne but still, the Dunlop rocks.

    I may try to get the Michelin Pilot Super Sport for my Panamera Turbo S next spring but it is weird that Porsche used this tire with a N-rating in a test but I can actually find it...nowhere. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 991 and Michelin

    RC:
    OBG:

    Just took delivery of my first P, 991 C2.  Was disappointed that P Zeros were on the car.  Even the salesman warned me to warm up the tires in cold weather.  I put Pilot Super Sports on my previous car last year - what a difference in grip,  ride, and quiet.

    Only driven the 911 a hundred miles so far due to snow.

    Trying to decide whether to wear out the Zeros or get Pilot Super Sports now.

    Yes, I'm not a friend of the Pirellis myself. Smiley

    I have the Pirelli Sottozero Winter tire on my Panamera Turbo S and actually thought this is a good winter tire (in comparison to the summer tire PZero, which I don't like much because it really needs higher temperatures to be good enough) until I actually started to drive the Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D on my Cayenne GTS. Compared to the Dunlop, the Sottozero is real crap. I know that it is difficult to compare the Panamera to the Cayenne but still, the Dunlop rocks.

    I may try to get the Michelin Pilot Super Sport for my Panamera Turbo S next spring but it is weird that Porsche used this tire with a N-rating in a test but I can actually find it...nowhere. Smiley

     There must be something we don't know about Michelin and the 991. How can the best tyre manufacturer in the world be blacklisted from OEM tyres for the new 911, it's been what, two years now? This is ridiculous.

    I have the supersport on my GT and it's just a fantastic tyre, miles ahead of the Pirellis, Conti, Bridgestone, etc.

     


     
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