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    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    From a British guy on Rennlist:

    "Well here it is, and lengthy it is going to be. I drove the 991.2 for 250 miles yesterday and this morning, on pretty much every kind of road there is, and it was a great privelege to have been given such a long time in such a new car. I'm going to try to do justice to that privilege by providing my opinion in as thorough a way as possible, especially for non-European readers, who may be ordering or thinking about ordering these cars without having driven them. (A word on that: I want to give a particular shout-out to North America, and what I feel to be the predominantly North American atmosphere of this forum. There is a car forum in the UK with a Porsche section, but it is a less joyful place than this, with a lot of what feel like discussion of the price of fish. Photos of new cars are rare, as seems to be sincere well-wishing towards their buyers. I prefer Rennlist, so America, this is for you). I'd also like to thank Porsche Centre East London for lending me th e car. They know how to treat people there.

    But the headline is that, in spite of being deeply impressed by almost all aspects of the 991.2 Carrera S, I am not going be buying one. It is a wonderfully fast and dynamic car, but simply one that I knew quite quickly once I took it on roads I knew that I would never be able to love. A lot of people will love it though, and during my time with the car I developed a theory about what it is good for, and what it is not.

    I’m going to put this together in the approximate order that it happened to me, beginning with leaving the garage and heading onto the North Circular Road to go and visit Old Mother Rat. The North Circular has 3 lanes and speed limits of 40-50mph. It’s fun for a nocturnal blast but this was mid-morning, mid-traffic and boring, and that was the first thought I caught myself with: oh wow, oh no, this is *boring*. I am driving a 911 and it’s boring. What?

    Sound. That’s a lot of it. The .2 is extremely quiet. At moderate speed I couldn’t hear anything under 4,000rpm, whether PSE was on or off. I’m afraid that button did so little that I had to keep checking whether or not it was broken (a homogeneity between the modes, an apparent ineffectiveness of the buttons and dial, came to be a prominent feature of my time with the car). Even when I did rev it out the overrun pops just sounded sort of sad and broken. The note sportier than a TTS but nowhere near a 991.1. Sound, though, can be fixed – Mr Akrapovic, I’m sure, is at this moment summoning his elves – power delivery can’t.

    There’s no turbo-lag, in the sense that I understood it, but I think I probably misunderstood it. The throttle’s top-of-the-pedal feel is incredibly alive and better than my GTS, but the response is definitely non-linear at low revs. It’s dramatically different and will be very obvious to anyone who’s just stepped out of the previous car. There’s even a cute little boost meter on the info screen to show you when it’s happening. True, above 3,000 rpm the boost starts as soon as the pedal is pressed, so the car feels pretty similar to an NA, though immediately faster and less top-end. Any lower than 3k, though, and you get the initial acceleration and then a gentle but very firm further acceleration – there are absolutely definitely two things happening. Please don’t get me wrong, this further acceleration is delightful, and it makes the car very, very fast, but this feeling of something else pushing it along disconnected me from the car. I spent so long wondering why this was – why what is after all added speed felt so bad to me. I like going fast. My tuning guy said there’d be software before long to get the .2 to 500hp, and who wouldn’t want an RWD car with that? Well, me, it turns out. Why was this car that was so very fast, and could be made so much faster (and better sounding), leaving me so utterly cold?

    Old Mother Rat felt the same way. I didn’t tell her what I was thinking, just let her get in and make her own judgment. Her first comment was ‘why doesn’t it sound like a Porsche?’. OMR’s eyesight is not what it was and sadly she is not allowed to drive anymore, but her last car was a 500hp Jaguar XKR, and she was very competent at handling my dad’s H-gate Ferrari back in the 90s. “Is this what sports cars have to be like now?” she asked, “It’s sad. This feels like a very fast runaround, like something for going to the shops.” The worst thing was that she was wrong. I go to the shops in the GTS and it’s an event. Even though I barely go over 30mph and most of the way has speed bumps, I look forward to and then enjoy the journey. In spite of .2’s the lovely rear-axle steering (if you are buying this car, I’d say it’s a must-have) I knew I wouldn’t look forward to pottering about in it in anything like the same way. Again it’s the sound, and that intangible somethin g about the power delivery.

    So then I hit the motorway, which suited the .2 beautifully. In the GTS I have the car in auto and change gear with the gas, knocking it down usually to 5th when I want to overtake. In the .2 I stayed in the elastic 7th, enjoying the little pause and then the slingshot of graceful overtaking power. Also, Porsche seem to have really sorted the coasting function in this car. In mine it drives me nuts and I turn it off for motorway auto mode, here it’s seamless and one almost has to look at the rev counter to tell if the engine is engaged or not. All the start/stop stuff is better integrated in the .2. On the motorway and in town that’s kind of nice. If you’re someone who turns it off as soon as they get into the car, though, obviously it’s not a big selling point, and the question has to be asked how great a hardship changing to 5th really is.

    And so to the country roads, specifically a great twisty bit I know well and love dearly. It’s a derestricted (60mph, and cops might be more lenient if you’re a shade over) with long straights, a couple of sweepers, and lots of nadgery stuff. And I went down it fast, given that it was wet, and with the torque blasting me down the straights it was fun (I do think the .2 would have shown its talents better in the dry, as I couldn’t really get the shove on out of the corners). I kept thinking while I was driving of how I was going to describe the experience in this review, and when I got to the end of the road realised two things. 1) I wasn’t sweating; in the GTS I usually am. 2) In the GTS there’s no way I would or could have been thinking about how I was going to describe anything to anybody. I wouldn’t have been able to think of anything other than Information, Position, Speed, Gear, Acceleration over and over again while occasionally screaming with joy. My time down the road in the older car (not that I would ever time myself on a public road) might well have been slower, but just in some intangible way better spent.

    After a few more hours of rural fun I headed back to London up the A24 (dual carriageway, dark, commuters, roundabouts). I was tired and just wanted to get back, in time to get some dinner, have a rest and then take a petrolhead friend for a late-night spin. And just when I wasn’t expecting it, just when I wasn’t so in the mood for driving anymore, the car came absolutely and inexorably alive. I destroyed the A24. I butchered it. Overtakes on straights, overtakes on bends – once getting home was the goal the car was in its element like no four-wheeled thing I’ve ever experienced. If you like sports cars and commute long-distance then this is the one for you.

    But then I was back in London traffic again, barely moving, and bored once again. But we’re always bored in traffic, right? Well, yes and no. Shortly after the Christmas we’ve just had, Mrs Rat and I were driving back from her mother’s place in Yorkshire on the M1. For those of you who haven’t had the pleasure, the M1 is England’s ageing spine, riddled with average-speed cameras and peopled by tailgaters and the wilfully blind. It took us 7 hours in stop-start traffic to get home and it was only by hour 6, with Mrs Rat hungry and fractious, that I started to do anything other than basically just really enjoy driving the car. 6 hours, in traffic, just listening to it and feeling it respond (OK the Burmester and Mrs Rat’s company helped). Similarly, I drove to Porsche East London in the early morning twice this week, once to drop off the GTS and once to pick it up. The journey in the .2 was quick and pleasant, with a couple of good fast wriggles of the rear end that m ade me g rin. The same journey at the same time of day with the .1 was memorable – it felt like the car was not my mere vehicle, nor my deadly weapon, but my companion. When I got home, by the way, I had dinner and then cancelled the trip to see my friend. I just couldn’t be bothered driving anymore. By contrast I have driven an entire needless lap of the North and South Circular’s at night in the GTS, just to visit Old Mother Rat.

    The difference in my basic enjoyment of the two cars surprised me so, so much. I am a sane person. I know that cars are not alive. So what’s going on? It can’t just be the sound. I refuse to believe that just turning up the volume on the .2 would make me love it, and so it seems to come back to the question of boost, and what it is about the boost that makes me like this car so much less. I think it hinges upon that old thorny branch called ‘character’ and what ‘character’ means, when one is talking about a thing that isn’t alive. Let’s think about this. My GTS’s behaviour depends simply on how many rpm it is doing; it has a character that slides smoothly and predictably from persuasive to demonic. This means the rev counter is a direct window into its soul. Porsche place it in the middle, because they know. But the .2’s character is a product of both revs and boost (not just how fast the engine is going, but that and how long it has been under acceleration for). This m eans that while the car is not unpredictable per se, it is in an important sense unknowable. We can drive it on feel, but as one reviewer said “the rev counter could have turned into a clock”. Because it does not directly tell us how the car is going to respond, the window to the its soul is closed.

    What, though, of my BMW 1200GS? The rev counter could be a clock on that too, and I adore the massive, weird beast. I think the point is that a big-twin adventure tourer like that is designed to pull in high gear at low revs – it’s a tremendous pleasure to short shift it and feel the individual cylinders banging away while one’s arms get pulled from their sockets, and at high revs it sounds less good than at low. The 991.2 has torque at the low end, but sound only at the high (maybe with a full Akra system like my bike has this would be solved), but it would still have that essential unknowability, caused by the intervention of the boost, which would always separate me from the car.

    And this separation maybe seems to be the point. There was an editorial in The Economist recently about CEOs who read emails while running on a treadmill and listening to the news. TE was pretty scathing, but it acknowledged that this is what life is like for a lot of successful people now, and it tends to be successful people who buy Porsches. And I don’t know or care what Apple CarPlay is, but it sounds like something that would be important people whose lives are quite different from my own. I think the whole 991.2 has been designed for people who are not like me.

    Which means you need to know who I am before listening to me. I’m a peaceful sort of bloke. I don’t floor it off the lights, or not very often. I think test cricket is a great day out. I meditate, when I remember to. I spent many years playing and then coaching competitive sport, which may be related to why I now have little interest in competing with other cars on road or track. In fact I’m not much of a track person in general. I work from home, and if I need to get anywhere in a hurry will always take the bike. I would probably count as an advanced driver in terms of roadcraft and think I’m reasonably progressive, but I know I have an immense amount to learn and plan to learn as much of it as I can. I don’t have the skill or the stones to unstick the car more than the tiniest bit. I want driving to feel special at legal speeds.

    You may not be like me. To the competitive souls who hate being overtaken, to the person who has a long way to go and in a hurry each day, to those who drive and need or like to think about other things, and to the ones who just wish for the newest and fastest thing – as long as you stay safe you have only my respect and good wishes. If getting from A to B as fast as possible is your thing then the 991.2 is the best decision that you will ever make.

    But if you think that there’s a chance you are like me… If you drive around for 3 hours on a Sunday morning just because you can; if you smell a bit after you do so and think that that’s as it should be; if the getting there sometimes matters more than the place you’re getting; or if you have thought or fantasised about owning or driving a sports car ever since you can remember being conscious, then I am going to suggest that you now think very, very hard. If you have ordered or are planning to order this car, just look at your options. Test drive a used GTS, or even an S (you can more or less turn an S into a GTS on the aftermarket with a few $£ if you want to). Or if you’ve got a 911.1 and it’s had a good innings and you’re a bit bored with it then consider giving it some love – an exhaust, a tune. Trade PDK for stick, coupe for cab, whatever. It’s human nature to want the next thing, but while the 991.2 is no doubt a huge step forward, it also a giant leap sideways , and on e which is never going to be un-made. Even a lost deposit and a used car is less money than a new one, and if I had traded in my .1 GTS for a .2 then I think I wouldn’t have made it home. I’d be pulled over on the shoulder, f***ing weeping for what I had lost.

    So I’m sorry if that’s not what you wanted to hear, and really please listen only if the things I’ve said seem to speak to your nature. The 991.2 is a fantastic car – doing more with less than what came before it – but I’m looking out of my window at the last of the dinosaurs, and I want it to be mine for as long as I live.

    PS I have a bunch of other small observations about the car, that may be of interest to those buying and which I will post at some point later, but I’m a bit tired from getting all of this down. I hope that it’s been of some use. Do fire away with any questions.

    Cheers,

    MR "


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Funny. What the guy is writing is basically the reasons why I got rid of my 911 8 years ago and got a 612 a California and an Aston and never looked back. They are all not as good as the latest 991.1 and yet they are more fun to drive and own. Yet he writes about the 991.2 vs the .1. It's all relative I guess.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    SciFrog:

    It's all relative I guess.

    Yep, my preference calls anything newer than 1973 too new Smiley


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Very interesting report and more or less underlines our feelings we already got from the 991.1.

    I have to take time to test drive the car myself. We had it on the list to buy one this year, but I guess it might be wrong. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Grant:

    Latest Chris Harris Tweet on the 991.2:

    monkey_8e90de10f9515c2f187edb6cf207db3250d3e741.jpg

    Didn't he get a Carrera GTS from Porsche for 6 months as a daily driver? No wonder he misses the "old" car. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I am sorry but I cannot agree on what that British guy from Rennlist said about the exhaust sound. The exhaust/engine sound is fantastic for a turbo charged car. Porsche did a wonderful job here. Also, you clearly hear a difference from pressing the PSE button, the difference is HUGE. With PSE turned off, the car is basically silent, much different to the 991.1 where pressing the PSE button did have some effect but not a huge one.

    Whoever always wanted a 911 Turbo but never was able to afford one, will be very pleased with the new 991.2, incl. the sound. I guess this would be valid for most interested 911 customers, so I doubt that Porsche needs to worry.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I think I can say the same thing about the 488 GTB, it's not quiet and not 430/458 loud at higher revs, but reasonable for customers who haven't experienced a high revving motor from Ferrari  angry


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

     indecision

    I am pretty sure that many 991.2 customers will be happy with the car because it feels more powerful now and otherwise, it hasn't lost any of it's 911 drive feel. Of course, if you compare the engine/sound to a GTS, things look different but I have to admit I really liked the new 991.2 with PSE, so people who don't own a GTS or never drove one, will be more than OK with the car. A baby 911 Turbo for less money, I think that Porsche did the right thing here.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Back in 98 there we´re so many people complaining about the 996! "Everybody" bought the 996!!! Same crap here!!!


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    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    By the way, nobody talks today about the 996 vs the 993!!!


    --
    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Paulo_Rangel_Melo:

    By the way, nobody talks today about the 996 vs the 993!!!

    996 is depreciating like ^&%@$!%

    996 is forgotten and not missed, ugly duckling Smiley

    996 is/was the rotten 911 which was released from 1998 ~ 2005.

    996 had the worst automatic transmission, the Tiptronic / 5-Spd (AMG) which never evolved with the turbo / turbo s. It went on till 2008 with 5 gears and a torque converter with nasa aircraft gearing Smiley The GTR did a great job to push them and unleash PDK.

    The only exceptions were the GT2/GT3, that's, if you had the balls to go all out and not crash, the rest are just waste of $$$ with polished tailpipes and anniversary badges.

    Even I skipped the 996 Generation for some unknown reasons, which I rather not talk about Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    The 996.1 was pretty bad, dubious interior quality, bad rim and headlight designs, RMS, long sifter and more. The 996.2 fixed most of the issues however and my 2003 996.2 C4C was one of the best cars I have ever owned. It was fun and very playful and had should, something the current regular 911 lack. I still see that car almost everyday and it is rock solid. The problem was the 996.1 did a lot of reputation damage and it took the introduction of the gorgeous 997.1 to fix that (beautiful design ruined in the 997.2 by the rear headlights).

    If a collector is looking for value I would totally look in a manual narrow body 996.2 non turbo as they are poised to rebound once people understand how much better than the 996.1 they are. It might require a lot of patience however. The S wide body might be interesting too but never like the design with the large red stripe.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I owned an early 996 without e throttle or traction control. One of the first 500 made. After 100k plus miles I sold it for just a little than what I paid for it used. I never had any issues with it. It was by far my cheapest 911 to own and it was light years quicker than all previous ones I had. It also had heat and AC which worked!  In some respects I still wish I had it and all the money I have spent since on Porsches in the bank.  To the average person it is no less special than the turbo I drive daily now.  While the performance difference is huge compared to the turbo on the street it really does not matter as driving either at full throttle will get you arrested soon. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I wonder what percentage of 911 buyers are "first-timers" and have no perspective on previous generations??


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    964C2:

    I wonder what percentage of 911 buyers are "first-timers" and have no perspective on previous generations??

    Long are the times (for most people anyway) when you bought a Porsche because you we´re a fan!!! Now you buy them because everybody has one, it´s a socitey status or something like tha

    Maybe 8 out of 10?


    --
    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    As far as the sound of the new Carrera goes! It´s nice! It´s no 964 with Cuprohr or 993 with Motorsound but it´s nice!!!


    --
    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I am looking forward to the 991.2 as a three year old used car at half the price. Someone please spec me a nice one!

    as to perspective. My old 2007 turbo is my eight. My first was a 914 when I was still 15 years old. It lasted for three months until a drunk driver almost killed me and destroyed it. Made me very afraid of tiny cars. Only 911 since then continuously. '77 which cost me a new motor and my only big repair bill was next. That 2.7 pulled apart like taffy. Then a European '80, an '84 targa, 84 coupe, 1999 996, 2005 997s and finally the turbo.  At 52 I must say I have had a shitload of fun using all as a daily driver in all weather conditions except hail.  For me driving them fast is second nature and I know exactly how far I can push them.  I think I would enjoy the 991.2 since it sounds like a nice mix of turbo and traditional 911.  And of course it will be a relatively cheap three year old used car.  In the US that leaves me with at least one year of warranty to sort out issues.  There is no way I would ever buy such an expensive car new because I am too cheap and have children and family.  New cars are a waste and unnecessary expense and I get the exact same enjoyment from an older car.  The good news is that people like me who are true Porsche drivers keep the market moving .

    Now please spec me a nice one for yourself. Don't put too many miles on it. I will take care of that. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    "Long are the times (for most people anyway) when you bought a Porsche because you we´re a fan!!! Now you buy them because everybody has one, it´s a socitey status or something like tha

    Maybe 8 out of 10?"--Paulo

    _____________________________

     

    We were all "first time" Porsche buyers at one point, and bought for our own reasons.  We may have liked the design, the racing history, the uniqueness, because James Dean or Steve McQueen drove one, and even because we saw other people with them.  I bought the first of my now sixteen Porsches in 1966 because I thought it was "cool".  Let's don't dismiss "first time buyers" who may buy a Porsche for any reason they choose.  We stayed with the brand because it continued to offer a satisfying automotive experience, and today's first time buyers may do so as well.  

    And "everybody has one"?  How many new 911s do you see each day, compared to the millions of other cars you see?  I live in a large U.S. metropolitan area, and am lucky to see ten Porsches each day--including Cayennes, 911s, Panameras.  Sure Porsche is producing far more cars now than years back, but the overall car driving population has also expanded exponentially.     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Lars997:

    Very interesting report and more or less underlines our feelings we already got from the 991.1.

    I have to take time to test drive the car myself. We had it on the list to buy one this year, but I guess it might be wrong. 

    Looking forward for your test drive and opinion about this car Lars.


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    RC:

    Whoever always wanted a 911 Turbo but never was able to afford one, will be very pleased with the new 991.2, incl. the sound. I guess this would be valid for most interested 911 customers, so I doubt that Porsche needs to worry.

    Fully agree.


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    And this was the base Carrera Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Paulo_Rangel_Melo:

    Back in 98 there we´re so many people complaining about the 996! "Everybody" bought the 996!!! Same crap here!!!

    I owned three 996 (996 C2, 996 C4 Powerkit, 996 Turbo) and never liked the 996 Carrera but quite enjoyed the 996 Turbo. Why did I buy the first two 996 Carrera? Well, I had no other choice, I wanted a Porsche.

    The first 911 I really loved was my first 997 Carrera S with PCCB and 20 mm chassis. Wonderful car.

    I also loved my 997 Turbo RUF 550 but this car was a beast (had it for five years, my longest ownership of a car EVER).

    My 997 Carrera GTS Cab was a disappointment. I liked it though but couldn't find myself to love it. The PDK wasn't ready for prime time yet, the engine felt a bit underpowered and overall, the car wasn't what I expected, it is difficult to explain.

    My 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cab is my most beloved 911 model ever. I love this car, it is difficult to describe the fun I have driving it. It sounds right, it feels right and the performance is better than I would have imagined, even if it isn't even close to the 991 Turbo S I owned.

    Long story short: I like the 991.2 a lot after the test-drive and I think Porsche did a marvelous job. However, I would never ever exchange my GTS for it. Maybe if the next GTS has 500 hp or so Smiley, I could be tempted but this isn't going to happen. The high revving 991.1 GTS engine is so much fun and now at over 7000 km, it revs up so fast and feels so free, it is just a joy to drive and listen to the engine sound.

    If Porsche ever decides to put the 991.2 Carrera S PSE sound into the next 911 Turbo S, I may be tempted to try one again. Unfortunately, with the new sound/noise emissions regulations this year, it may never happen. So I will keep my GTS for a very long time, also because my wife plans to take it over from me (lease or buy), which would be amazing.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    RC, you have a fabulous wife...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Some questions above asked about the percentage of first time buyers who had no perspective on past 911 generations.  To get some insight, i asked a close professional friend who has been a Porsche dealership General Sales Manager for over 25 years.  i trust his views and thought I would pass them along here:

    "Your questions are very interesting. Unfortunately, owner loyalty data is among the least reliable of the metrics in the automobile industry and particularly for Porsche. This is in part because many Porsche owners have simultaneous possession of more than one brand of vehicle in the same market segment and they also tend to move away from one brand to explore other options only to return later. This pattern may repeat several times over the customer lifespan. That said, if I were to estimate the percentages of those acquiring a new 911 model today, it would be 60 percent with some brand experience and 40 percent new to Porsche.

     

    The two principal motivating factors continue to be a general appreciation for the Porsche brand and the iconic status of the 911. It is a very aspirational product, customers often tell of a long-standing desire for a 911 that is finally realized years after their initial exposure."


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Wonderbar:

    Some questions above asked about the percentage of first time buyers who had no perspective on past 911 generations.  To get some insight, i asked a close professional friend who has been a Porsche dealership General Sales Manager for over 25 years.  i trust his views and thought I would pass them along here:

    "Your questions are very interesting. Unfortunately, owner loyalty data is among the least reliable of the metrics in the automobile industry and particularly for Porsche. This is in part because many Porsche owners have simultaneous possession of more than one brand of vehicle in the same market segment and they also tend to move away from one brand to explore other options only to return later. This pattern may repeat several times over the customer lifespan. That said, if I were to estimate the percentages of those acquiring a new 911 model today, it would be 60 percent with some brand experience and 40 percent new to Porsche.

     

    The two principal motivating factors continue to be a general appreciation for the Porsche brand and the iconic status of the 911. It is a very aspirational product, customers often tell of a long-standing desire for a 911 that is finally realized years after their initial exposure."

    Therein lies the explanation for the basic silhouette of the 911 having been maintained for over 50 years.    Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    BiTurbo:

    And this was the base Carrera Smiley

     

    It is even more stunning to read that cars which are already 5-10 years old in developement and also - Tires of that year - did years before perform that well. Naming the 997 Turbo or the SLS it really impresses me. Reading that the 991.2 Carrera with latest tires, dynamic balance systems performs 3 seconds worse, it really kind of disappoints me. I would have expected a wider difference towards the competition. Especially that Corvette C7 kicks it - value for money seems to be much better. 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I thinck boxster spyder is a very wise decision: pleasure, value for money, performance and exclusivity...


    --

    965 3.3turbo/  993 targa / 996 cab /997S cab/996 GT3

    Audi R8  //  Audi A6 3.0 biturbo Quattro/Mini JCW/ 993 cab// boxster spyder on order


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    beltar:

    I thinck boxster spyder is a very wise decision: pleasure, value for money, performance and exclusivity...

    Yep.... I guess so too!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Wonderbar:

    RC, you have a fabulous wife...

    Smiley Pssst...don't tell her...it could go to her head. Smiley Smiley

    Actually, she is more egoistic than you think about the GTS. She always wanted a 911 cabriolet and black is her preferred color for a 911 Cab, as surprising as this may sound for a woman.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


     
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