Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    As some of you may know, I was about to run the Texas Mile when my clutch started going out. The failure was seen under high load on the freeway in 6th. The clutch simply could not hold the torque and the motor would spin freely with no observed change in motion of the car.

    My car has the AWE exhaust, GIAC programming including 100 octane race mode - the slippage was never seen in 93 octane mode, only when on 100 octane or "race" mode. My car has 8k miles and has never been "dragged" save for 3 GPS runs. I have perhaps 6-8 track days on the car also, never at anything beyond 7-8/10ths.

    AWE kindly sent me out a Sachs Stage 2 racing clutch, which uses a stronger pressure plate and non-sprung clutch disc (factory clutch disc is sprung). The non-sprung disc is significantly lighter than the stock disc. My tech did the install in maybe 4 hours. Book charge is 11 hours labor (ouch).

    The examination of my stock clutch was the surprising part - over 80% clutch life remaining as measured by micrometer. There was some light glazing on the disc, but overall a very good condition clutch. The flywheel likewise looked fine, only a few hotspots but nothing notable. In conclusion, the tech and I surmised that the stock clutch simply could not generate enough clamping force for the peak torque of the GIAC "RACE" programming. The only situation where you might be able to generate this long sustained peak torque and opposing load is under full throttle in 6th. In the lower gears the car rips through the rpms too fast to generate enough load/boost.




    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    eclou, did you happen to take a picture of the new Sachs clutch? I wondered if the pictures shown above was the Sach. I'm guessing that the first two is the Sach but you said that it was non-sprung.

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    those pics above are the stock clutch x2 and pressure plate. I forgot to get pics of the Sachs clutch, but it looks exactly like the STG 1 clutch EVOMS sells:


    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    Did you consider a LWFW?

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    I did not. The engine of the TT blips faster than my Gt3 did, probably b/c of the lower compression ratio. Also, it hardly needs more lower gear power

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    I did not. The engine of the TT blips faster than my Gt3 did, probably b/c of the lower compression ratio. Also, it hardly needs more lower gear power



    Are you saying that your Turbo has quicker throttle-to-rpm response with the clutch not engaged?

    In my opinion the biggest bang for the buck the LWFW provides is not the improvement in clutch-in throttle response, it's the in-gear engine throttle response and acceleration. Installing a LWFW on my Turbo was like adding horsepower.

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:

    Are you saying that your Turbo has quicker throttle-to-rpm response with the clutch not engaged?



    Compared to my GT3 yes

    Quote:
    In my opinion the biggest bang for the buck the LWFW provides is not the improvement in clutch-in throttle response, it's the in-gear engine throttle response and acceleration. Installing a LWFW on my Turbo was like adding horsepower.



    I have had a ltw flywheel on every other performance car of mine, and lived with the rattle noise. I am a power hungry mod junky, but I don't think the TT needs anymore low end power. It is already ripping 0-60 in the mid 3's - anymore is beyond the limits of traction.

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:

    Are you saying that your Turbo has quicker throttle-to-rpm response with the clutch not engaged?



    Compared to my GT3 yes

    Quote:
    In my opinion the biggest bang for the buck the LWFW provides is not the improvement in clutch-in throttle response, it's the in-gear engine throttle response and acceleration. Installing a LWFW on my Turbo was like adding horsepower.



    I have had a ltw flywheel on every other performance car of mine, and lived with the rattle noise. I am a power hungry mod junky, but I don't think the TT needs anymore low end power. It is already ripping 0-60 in the mid 3's - anymore is beyond the limits of traction.



    What about out of 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear at speed? Plus you've got AWD to aid with traction. Do you think it could help there, as well?

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    Mathematically the ltw flywheel has quickly diminishing returns to the point of being negligible after 3rd gear. On a turbo car it is easier to program in a smidge more boost than to R&R a flywheel. For me it is not worthwhile, but for someone seeking that last 10th of performance perhaps it would be

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    Mathematically the ltw flywheel has quickly diminishing returns to the point of being negligible after 3rd gear.



    Given, for example, a 3000 rpm 3rd or 4th gear rolling start, my Turbo accelerates better with the LWFW versus the OEM flywheel. The majority of my driving "acceleration requirements" are in gears 1-3, especially on the North Georgia mountain roads. And the throttle response/initial acceleration improvements provided by the LWFW make urban driving much easier due to the increased flexibility.

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    I don't doubt you Dock, but how much compared to an exhaust or ecu mod?

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    I don't doubt you Dock, but how much compared to an exhaust or ecu mod?



    The LWFW versus my Europipe 2 Loud = the LWFW, by a large margin over the EP.

    The LWFW versus my GIAC Stage 2 = The ECU upgrade obviously provides far more horsepower, but did not improve the initial acceleration prior to boost...the ~500-800 rpm period before peak boost is achieved. The LWFW is a big help in improving engine acceleration during that time, as well as when the engine is at peak boost.

    When my car had just the EP exhaust and the stage 2 ECU programing it was, even to the most casual of observers, not as quick as it is now with the LWFW.

    So between the exhaust, the ecu, and the LWFW, the LWFW has been the most instrumental in providing quicker in-gear throttle response. As you know, the LWFW isn't something that comes with no "expense"...because of the increased noise.

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    Anyone suggest a good clutch upgrade solution for handling 800Nm torque?

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    Eugene - I've looked closely at the photo of your stock pressure plate, and in my opinion there seems to be a lot of heat marks and perhaps some heat checks - much more than i would expect in a car with 8,000 miles. I recently helped a friend put a clutch in his 997S with 33K miles, and his pressure plate had maybe 10% of the heat marks your's had.

    ??

    Dick

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    Hi Alex,

    sorry not replied to your mail, still sunning myself in California

    I went for a stage 2 set up from sachs (www.regal-auto.co.uk)

    They quote it as handling up to 658ftlbs. price for the kit was Pounds830 + fitting.

    Have you had the conversion yet?

    Nick

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    Hey Nick

    Pounds830 + fitting seems pretty cheap given Parr options are all Pounds2k+ fitted. Unless your fitting is well over Pounds1k?!

    No still waiting. I need to take my car down to Gatwick area and leave for 10 days whilst ECU is shipped to RS-Tuning in Germany.

    The UK storms are not helping when I can get down there either.

    -Alex

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    I am assuming something like this would be required:

    FVD website

    Sport clutch kit 993TT/996TT/GT2/997TT with light flywheel 870Nm (sinter rigid disc) 1.495 Euro

    Kit contains the following part:
    Pressure plate, rigid sintered disc, release bearing, Flywheel,starter ring gear, guide tube, bolts.

    Re: Clutch report AWE/GIAC stg2 car

    Quote:
    Alex_ said:
    I am assuming something like this would be required:

    FVD website

    Sport clutch kit 993TT/996TT/GT2/997TT with light flywheel 870Nm (sinter rigid disc) 1.495 Euro

    Kit contains the following part:
    Pressure plate, rigid sintered disc, release bearing, Flywheel,starter ring gear, guide tube, bolts.



    I didn't go for the light weight flywheel. Apparently they make a noticeable sound when the car is idling that one may find annoying. Frankly the advantages of the flywheel vs cost are not worth it on a tuned 997TT IMHO

    Nick

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 4/24/18 8:59 PM
    Grant
    283653 4502
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 4/24/18 2:49 PM
    Whoopsy
    270704 1816
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 4/24/18 11:22 PM
    Ferdie
     
     
     
     
     
    172078 985
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 4/25/18 3:27 PM
    MKSGRM
    101151 1790
    Porsche Sticky 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) 4/25/18 7:21 AM
    RCA
    80637 1130
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/25/18 3:02 PM
    noone1
    23153 1110
    Porsche 918 latest news Thread Closed 11/6/17 10:43 AM
    RCA
    553896 5574
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS 1/9/18 1:43 PM
    Kimi
    461739 5816
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 4/3/18 9:15 AM
    KresoF1
    450859 4254
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 3/11/18 5:44 PM
    RCA
    249737 2560
    Porsche Cayman GT4 12/30/17 11:07 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    217027 2482
    Porsche 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip Thread Closed 7/3/17 2:04 PM
    RCA
    177331 1699
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S 1/23/18 12:27 AM
    RCA
    167222 1074
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 3/31/18 10:47 PM
    watt
    147219 1495
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 4/24/18 1:41 PM
    DJM48
    142182 2937
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 12/29/17 8:31 AM
    dreamcar
    113485 692
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 4/25/18 3:42 PM
    nberry
    110648 2090
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 1/6/18 10:41 PM
    Wonderbar
    109177 1284
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 12/5/17 3:29 PM
    RCA
    89355 765
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 4/20/18 6:04 PM
    noone1
    84280 869
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 718 Boxster (2016) 10/20/17 11:17 AM
    DaveGordon
    82759 732
    McLaren F1 8/23/17 11:10 AM
    Carlos from SpainM
    51151 202
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 3/30/18 9:09 AM
    TB993tt
    48204 640
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 4/23/18 2:30 AM
    Targa Tim
    46641 726
    Porsche UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne 2/6/18 2:13 PM
    RCA
    42845 423
    Lambo Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring? 11/7/17 12:30 AM
    kingjr9000
    37009 852
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/29/17 12:27 PM
    DJM48
    31330 471
    AMG AMG GT R 1/26/18 7:19 AM
    GoHardGT3RS
    31106 597
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    31018 1122
    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/12/18 2:01 PM
    crayphile
    28313 427
    345 items found, displaying 1 to 30.