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    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Just go the lease quote back from my dealer...I almost had a heart attack.  

    Car worth 163k EUR, 2600 EUR per month, no initial payment, 10k km per year, 36 months (10% special discount on price of car already counted in). 

    Just for comparison: The GLC 63 S Edition 1 (worth 134k EUR) is 1350 EUR per month (same conditions as above). OK, this is a special lease offer through an industry pool (don't ask ) but still...

    GLE 63 S AMG Coupe (car worth 160k EUR) 1600 EUR per month, 1000 bucks less than the Cayenne Turbo. Crazy.

    All prices incl. 19% VAT.

    My sales guy said the Cayenne is too new for special lease offers... yes


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

     Wow, RC, pretty depressing figures. In the US  The Cayanne turbo is 1206K, I'd have to  add almost 40K in options to reach 163. Nevertheless, I agree that Porsche prices are really beginning to squeeze me too.


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    You could finance your Aventador or 720s for 2600 per month...

    Time to buy a RAV4 and get the car of your dreams.


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Wonderbar:

     Wow, RC, pretty depressing figures. In the US  The Cayanne turbo is 1206K, I'd have to  add almost 40K in options to reach 163. Nevertheless, I agree that Porsche prices are really beginning to squeeze me too.

    Yes, very depressing. Smiley I really like the new interior of the Cayenne and of course I like how it drives. Not the biggest fan of the exterior but maybe it is good that it doesn't look too flashy.

    For a couple of hundreds more per month, I would have taken the Cayenne but almost 1300? Can't do it. Car will be a business car and my tax advisor set a limit to 1400. Smiley

    Can't warm up to the Cayenne S with V6 Biturbo, I hated this engine in the Macan Turbo, so why would I love it in the Cayenne?! Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    noone1:

    You could finance your Aventador or 720s for 2600 per month...

    Time to buy a RAV4 and get the car of your dreams.

    Not quite I'm afraid, the Huracan was (as far as I remember) 2400 EUR per month. Aventador is over 3500 as far as I remember, they are afraid of the remaining values (at the end of the leases), so they add some of the "risk" to the lease rates. Saw a lease offer for the new 720S for 4500 EUR per month. 2600? I don't think so. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    to me they have made me a new offer: mercedes gle 63 amg (557hp) 120,000 € and the new cayenne S (440hp) 137,000 €. much difference in price and power


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    cayenneturbo:

    to me they have made me a new offer: mercedes gle 63 amg (557hp) 120,000 € and the new cayenne S (440hp) 137,000 €. much difference in price and power

    Ouch. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Porsche pricing is borderline ridiculous. Still don´t understand how they priced the GT4 so low...


    --

    2016 Cayman GT4 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2016 Macan S Diesel - 2013 Mini Cooper S


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

     While I agree that Porsche prices are high, this has been the case for over 60 years. When I bought my first 912 and 1966, it cost $1500 more then a Corvette with almost twice the power.  A buyers decision really comes down to personal needs, financial worth,and inexplicable desires. Are you willing to pay more for the Porsche brand, with all  it's quality, professionalism, racing history, and driving pleasure? Everyone's decision of course. But I've honestly never regretted paying more for Porsche than  for a more powerful cheaper car. wink


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    The big difference is that now Porsche prices have exploded all the while competition gets a lot better. After almost a year of RR sport ownership, I don’t think I will ever own another Cayenne turbo/turbo S at the current prices. It is 95% as good overall (it is actually better in some aspects) and 30% cheaper new (probably 50-60% cheaper for total 5 years ownership if you include tires and brakes and the better relative resale value of the RR).


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    I pay around 400€ for a BMW 1 series, 36 months, 50.000 km/year  indecision

    Beat that Smiley


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Enzo II:

    I pay around 400€ for a BMW 1 series, 36 months, 50.000 km/year  indecision

    Beat that Smiley

    120d? Smiley Smiley Smiley

    My BMW dealer offered me a 240i xdrive, fully optioned, for 500 EUR per month (incl. VAT), 36 months, 10k km, no initial payment. Good offer but I don't need it. I won't replace my Mini JCW when it is gone next year (dealer wanted to "exchange" the JCW with the 240i, he sells Mini as well). 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    GLC63S the way to go kiss


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Guys I think you are al very negative on the new Cayenne, yes it is expensive but did you ever see a cheap Porsche? The GLC cannot be compared with a Cayenne. Yes de AMG 63S has a nice motor but size wise it is more a Macan. For a daily driver this engine give you nice gas bills. The finishing of this Mercedes cannot be compared with a Porsche. Personally I would hate to drive a 120.000 Euro care with a dash and GPS system ( with screen mounted on top of dash) of a Mercedes C class. Also the majority of the GLC are 52.000 Euro cars so not a really special car. (yes I know the AMG 63S has a different front). Like mentioned on previous post I bought a Cayenne 4S with sport seats, air suspension (48v) and 4 wheel steering for app 120.000 Euro. Even now you can get between 6-7% discount on this at a Porsche dealer.


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Agree­čĹŹ


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    that you can acquire an X5 M or a GLE 63 AMG full equip at the same price (120.000€)  as a cayenne s with the essential extras to me at least makes me think a lot because to go to for the new turbo I have to think already at 170,000 €. I do not think the qualities of bmw and mercedes are much lower than those of Porsche (and I love cayenne, but prices are exorbitant).


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    I think I miss something here; a full/good equipped Mercedes GLE 63S AMG will be somewhere around 145.000 Euro, a similar equipped Cayenne Turbo around 165.000. If you can get GLE 63S for 120 this is 17% rebate! I am switching back from BMW X5 to Cayenne because in driving and roadability. The Porsches are way better. (and yes more expensive)


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    RC:

    Just go the lease quote back from my dealer...I almost had a heart attack.  

    Car worth 163k EUR, 2600 EUR per month, no initial payment, 10k km per year, 36 months (10% special discount on price of car already counted in). 

    Just for comparison: The GLC 63 S Edition 1 (worth 134k EUR) is 1350 EUR per month (same conditions as above). OK, this is a special lease offer through an industry pool (don't ask ) but still...

    GLE 63 S AMG Coupe (car worth 160k EUR) 1600 EUR per month, 1000 bucks less than the Cayenne Turbo. Crazy.

    All prices incl. 19% VAT.

    My sales guy said the Cayenne is too new for special lease offers... yes

    SmileySmiley

    Not sure if I should bang my head or ROFL. Porsche is insane. Why would you get this Cayenne for this kind of price tag? A friend just got one of the last Cayennes - GTS fully equipped, and the lease with comparable terms was below 1k€. So - certainly, old model has special lease offers Smiley So tell  me - now much better is the new one over that old one - you can have that GLE and the old Cayenne as a pack and still be lower priced than the new Cayenne Smiley Smiley

    Step away and come clear, its not about the brand its about a good car for a fair price. Try alternatives. Get that GLE or anything else which you like. 


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Quit wasting money on cars you don't really want, RC. You complain about not be able to afford exotics that you want, but then you feel the need to have the latest and greatest SUV. The new Cayenne experience will be a tiny bit different better than the old Cayenne experience. Why not just BUY a used Cayenne or nice SUV and keep it longer? A 720S isn't special enough for you, but you're willing to trade SUVs constantly. Weird.

    Your leases include the depreciation FYI...


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    I think the golden area of Cayennes and "less depreciation by having a Porsche badge" are over. To many on the market and in our office a colleague  purchased a used Cayenne out of warranty and just had to fork out 7k for his "suspension failure (air)" - he's hugely unhappy but people probably underestimate the costs to own a Porsche. Mercedes here have a fantastic guaranty and service packages for long periods (10 year free service costs for example) which is worth a lot of money too - next to a much lower entry point. Panameras are another example - they will depreciate like crazy


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    noone1:

    Quit wasting money on cars you don't really want, RC. You complain about not be able to afford exotics that you want, but then you feel the need to have the latest and greatest SUV. The new Cayenne experience will be a tiny bit different better than the old Cayenne experience. Why not just BUY a used Cayenne or nice SUV and keep it longer? A 720S isn't special enough for you, but you're willing to trade SUVs constantly. Weird.

    Your leases include the depreciation FYI...

    Cayenne (or any other SUV) would be a business ride, something I can deduct as an expense. Not possible with a sportscar. The new Cayenne is completely different to the old one, people will experience that once they drive it (rear wheel steering does wonders to such a car...). The interior of the new Cayenne is beautiful and modern (not that the old one is ugly and old but the difference is huge). Why would I want to keep a BUSINESS car longer than three years? It is tax deductible, so why would I want to drive an old car for basically the same money?! Smiley Most business leases in Germany are two to three years for a reason.

    I do not buy cars I do not want to keep for a longer period of time and I do not buy cars because I do not want to deal with depreciation and/or any issues later on. 

    Of course leases include the depreciation but not always. Some lease offers are pretty good over here (like my R8 lease for example). Sometimes the companies offer low lease rates and create a higher remaining value. Then, they write off the difference between that higher (book) value with what the car really sells for as a used car. Sometimes even the factory offers some sorts of compensation if the dealer cannot get rid of his lease return for the book value or slightly less. There are many different mixed calculations, so dealers don't loose money in the process. Sometimes, they don't make money on some cars because they just want to move them (for example cars which don't sell too well but dealers need to buy from the manufacturer because otherwise, they cannot get enough of the more "popular" cars).

    Why do you compare the 720S to my business car? Makes no sense.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    You know what's better than writing off expenses? Not having expenses.

    Who cares if you can write off a percentage of a lease if the lease is a massive loss anyway? You just said your income isn't even that high, so you're not getting that much of a deduction anyway.

    How much is your current Cayenne lease?


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    noone1:

    You know what's better than writing off expenses? Not having expenses.

    Are you kidding? This means the government gets more taxes and I get no fun. Smiley

    Who cares if you can write off a percentage of a lease if the lease is a massive loss anyway? You just said your income isn't even that high, so you're not getting that much of a deduction anyway.

    Deduction is quite substantial (50%...my wife is close to 80%).

    How much is your current Cayenne lease?

    1200 or 1300 EUR (I don't remember precisely) incl. VAT per month, no initial payment. Car is worth 136k EUR. This is my wife's business car. Over 80% of the cost is deductible. Not only the lease cost but also maintenance and fuel. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

     Hi RC. It's not easy to do, but I have found that as I get older that I can "lighten my load"  and enjoy fewer things more. This applies to my cars as well as other things that I originally was excited about.You might consider letting some of your other cars go, to free up some cash and get the Cayenne you really want. I have also found out that the newest Porsche is also always the better one. Just some advice which may or may not apply to you, but I thought I would pass it along.


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Couldn’t agree more, I feel the same!


    --

    2016 Cayman GT4 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2016 Macan S Diesel - 2013 Mini Cooper S


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Wonderbar:

     Hi RC. It's not easy to do, but I have found that as I get older that I can "lighten my load"  and enjoy fewer things more. This applies to my cars as well as other things that I originally was excited about.You might consider letting some of your other cars go, to free up some cash and get the Cayenne you really want. I have also found out that the newest Porsche is also always the better one. Just some advice which may or may not apply to you, but I thought I would pass it along.

    All our cars have a purpose, don't forget that both, me and my wife, are still working. So each of us has a business car, Cayenne and 911 (it would be foolish not to have one), the Mini JCW is my "difficult parking situations" car and a car my 83 years old mother drives from time to time as well. Then, there is my fun car, the R8...thats it. Nothing more in our garage. Smiley Every one of these cars make sense but the Mini will go next year because my mother is too old to drive (she just had an accident and is afraid to continue driving). 

    Me and my wife get new business cars, C63 S AMG Convertible and GLC 63 S AMG Edition 1. The R8 stays (I would rather use a bicycle for work than letting go my R8 Smiley).

    So three cars for us, not really many. Smiley

    Our business expenses lower our tax load. Cars are usually 100% deductible but in my case, only around 50%. Only my wife enjoys 80% because she uses a driving log (I am too lazy to do that and not even sure I would hit 50%).

    I agree, the latest Porsche is usually the best one (although I still can't warm up to the current 991.2 Carrera turbo engines or the 4-cyl. turbo engines in the 718 models, also not a fan of the Cayenne GTS with V6 Biturbo, the old one with a V8 engine was a treat). However, I really think the Cayenne became too expensive for what it offers. 

    I would have gladly taken a Macan again but not with that boring V6 Biturbo. The V8 Biturbo in a mid sized SUV (GLC 63 S AMG) is just an amazing combo and I already talked to two people at Porsche about this and they admitted that Porsche can't beat that. 


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    You're still paying 1000 euro/month for a new SUV constantly, and all of that is deprecia

    1300/month * .50 * .40 = 260 Euro
    1300/month * 80 * .5 = 520 Euro

    So if your tax rate is 50% and you can deduct 80%, then you're still paying over 800 Euro/month on a Cayenne. If your tax rate were 40% and you only deduct 50%, then you're paying 1140/month.

    If you would just wait a year, you could probably buy a used Cayenne and keep it at a 40-50K savings over 4 years. They depreciate massively they second they drive off the lot.


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    noone1:

    You're still paying 1000 euro/month for a new SUV constantly, and all of that is deprecia

    1300/month * .50 * .40 = 260 Euro
    1300/month * 80 * .5 = 520 Euro

    So if your tax rate is 50% and you can deduct 80%, then you're still paying over 800 Euro/month on a Cayenne. If your tax rate were 40% and you only deduct 50%, then you're paying 1140/month.

    If you would just wait a year, you could probably buy a used Cayenne and keep it at a 40-50K savings over 4 years. They depreciate massively they second they drive off the lot.

    I think you misunderstood. My tax rate is certainly not 50% (highest income tax rate in Germany is 42%).

    You don't seem to understand one thing: We do not buy cars. This is stupid. This is only worth it if you want to keep the car longer and/if you think it could gain in value or at least keep it over the years.

    I prefer to pay monthly lease rates because it has huge advantages for me (I explained it many times but you don't listen):

    1. There are often special lease offers in Germany which are really attractive because the factory usually gives dealers incentives to get rid of cars or dealers want to get rid of them themselves. I get the full discount I would get for a cash buy but in monthly rates and when the lease ends, I do not have to worry about remaining value or whatever. I leave the car with the dealer and I'm done. No worries, no obligations. Usually, to keep me as a customer, they offer me even better deals for a new model. Smiley Again: If I would get 10% discount on a cash deal, I get the same discount on a lease deal. There is no difference here.

    2. If I would buy the car, this means I have capital "locked" up in a car. With 100k EUR, I can make at least 15-20k EUR per year on the stock markets, sometimes even more (my gain for 2017 is 36% so far Smiley). Why would I be so stupid to use my capital to buy a car instead? Where is that advantage? I don't get it? Smiley Unless of course it would be a 911R, I get it. Smiley

    3. Business cars are tax deductible but of course I could buy the car and keep it 10 years and then it would be a great deal. Do I want that? No. I do not want to drive an old car. This is the advantage of these lease deals for businesses: I return the car after 24-36 months and drive off the lot in the latest model for the same money or even less. Leases are fully deductible, this is fantastic. Always driving the latest model. Of course this is not for free and it is not very cheap but much better (cheaper and less risky) than buying the car.

     

     


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    Well, then I guess you'll have to live with posting how the supercar you really want is always out of your price range because you're too busy blowing cash on new SUVs. Just my two cents. You're spending your money making sure your Cayenne has the best performance possible rather than your exotic car. Weird priorities. You're adding RWS to the Cayenne rather than your exotic.

    Car loans should be like 2.5% BTW, so you can still invest the capital anyway.


    Re: UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne

    noone1:

    Well, then I guess you'll have to live with posting how the supercar you really want is always out of your price range because you're too busy blowing cash on new SUVs. Just my two cents. You're spending your money making sure your Cayenne has the best performance possible rather than your exotic car. Weird priorities. You're adding RWS to the Cayenne rather than your exotic.

    It is my wife's Cayenne... Smiley Again, you compare apples to...potatoes. The Cayenne is a business car. An exotic super sportscar is not tax deductible, at least not at my income. 

    Also, not sure if you noticed but I have an exotic: The R8. Best sportscar I ever owned, probably third best I ever drove (and I drove many). I am not talking performance only but overall impression and drive feel, the emotional part.

    Car loans should be like 2.5% BTW, so you can still invest the capital anyway.

    Why would I take a loan? Smiley Where is the difference to the lease then (not even talking about the fact that leases have lower interest rates/lease factors if they are very good offers).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


     
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