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    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    ISUK:
    CGX car nut:
     

    It is a Ferrari derived V6.  Once one factors in the Chrysler, Dodge, and other undesirable components, why bother.  

    In the States, the Alfa dealer network is weak, as many Fiat dealers signed onboard early only to have no salable product either from Fiat or Alfa.  Many dealerships, including the one in downtown Chicago, are shuttered.

     

    You can't have read up on the engineering behind these new Alfa's. These are not parts bin models using other FCA brands. Both the Giula and the Stelvio are built on a brand new platform called Giorgio which shares nothing with Chrysler or Dodge.  The interiors are unique to the Alfa models and supplied by Faurecia who also supply to both BMW and the whole VW group. The suspension designs are new as well.

    If you consider just how far behind the market leaders Alfa has fallen in the last 10 -15 years in terms of both production volumes and the market segments they had retreated into it is clear that they have achieved an almost miraculous turn round in the very short gestation time taken to create a whole new engineering team and get the Giulia from drawing board to market . For the car to be regarded out of the starting blocks by the motoring media as being only slightly behind the likes of Audi, BMW and Mercedes, who don't forget have honed their small saloon models over multiple generations stretching back unbroken over 3 to 4 decades and through literally millions of examples built, is a very great achievement. The Giulia QF has actually beaten the M3 in a number of magazine comparisons now. It takes time to build a strong dealer network so it won't be achieved overnight but as long as the dealers in key US states perform to a good standard then the new cars will likely be a success.

    I'm happy to see a famous and important brand back in the game and finally offering competitive products that will surely only improve with time and ongoing development. Hopefully the Stelvio will become a strong seller and allow FCA to continue to invest in the Alfa model range renaissance. It would be great to see modern rear drive Gtv and Spider models brought back as competition for the TT and base 718 models.

    The same was said about Maserati too and those models share many components with other FCA models, notably those from Chrysler and Dodge.  Parts sharing is essential for profitability and if every component is new, and not shared with other models, then FCA will have some real issues with profitability as component pricing is based on volume.  

    It took Volkswagen years and billions upon billions of Marks/Euros to elevate Audi into the premium range.  FCA doesn't have the capital nor the expertise, especially with Marchionne as tyrant, to move the needle with Alfa Romeo.  This is a tired retread of what he tried to do, and failed, with Maserati.  Marchionne is diverting scarce free cash flow from Jeep, its most profitable business unit, and diverting it to his follies.


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    Atzporsche:
    CGX car nut:
    Atzporsche:
    ISUK:

    It is impossible these days to ignore the volume sales that SUV's generate so hopefully the Stelvio and it's rumoured larger sibling will help to rebuild Alfa's viability and allow them to develop sportier models such as a modern Gtv and Spider. Autocar had an interesting render last week of what the proposed Alfetta large saloon (5 series competitor) could look like. The current Alfa styling works well in this rendering IMHO.

    Alfetta render.JPG

    I like where Alfa is heading, this SUV better have flat rear folding seats. Than I might actually consider one. 

    If you like where Alfa is going, you like Audi too, as this is a photoshop of a C7 A6.  

    Well but Audi has sh!t lazy and edgy exteriors.. this is the polar opposite with just some simple shapes and curved and a sexy brand grille

    Photoshop with an Audi S6 and Giulia elements to form the "new" model.  The shape of the DLO and roof line is classic Audi A6/S6 as well as the mirror housing from a S6. 

    Audi design is more cerebral than the current designs from Alfa Romeo, which will date horrible over the lifecycle.  


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    CGX car nut:
     

    The same was said about Maserati too and those models share many components with other FCA models, notably those from Chrysler and Dodge.  Parts sharing is essential for profitability and if every component is new, and not shared with other models, then FCA will have some real issues with profitability as component pricing is based on volume.  

    It took Volkswagen years and billions upon billions of Marks/Euros to elevate Audi into the premium range.  FCA doesn't have the capital nor the expertise, especially with Marchionne as tyrant, to move the needle with Alfa Romeo.  This is a tired retread of what he tried to do, and failed, with Maserati.  Marchionne is diverting scarce free cash flow from Jeep, its most profitable business unit, and diverting it to his follies.

    Component sharing is common place across the car industry. If you want to look at real parts sharing under the surface then take a look at VW group cars including Porsche, Bentley and Lamborghini. You don't have to scratch far below the skin to find a lot of Audi stamped parts Smiley

    The criticisms of Maserati have mainly centred around switchgear and the infotainment system etc. That criticism could have been levelled at the previous generation Ferrari Calfornia which also shared components such as it's infotainment unit with the Grand Cherokee. The bottom line line is that Maserati have gone from a low point of 6k cars per annum to close to 50k with the new models and the Levante is only just coming on stream. It has introduced more bespoke items that have been carried over into the revised Ghibli and Quattroporte models in a process of continuous improvement.

    I don't think Marchionne is doing a bad job of relaunching these famous Italian brands considering both were limping along in the slow lane and in danger of failing completely. He has resisted the temptation to simply rebody Jeep models to provide quick solution SUV's and instead given both Maserati and Alfa bespoke platforms from which they can spin off a whole series of new models if the initial models launched sell in sufficient numbers. He should be given credit for that as it's something the old FIAT management would almost certainly not have done as their failure to replace the well received 147/156/916 GTV and Spider models of the 90's with proper "Alfa" replacements shows. They took the easy route by co-developing the 159, Brera and Spider with GM and using FIAT platforms for their MiTo and Giulietta models. In the process they totally lost sight of what Alfa stood for and lost customers in droves as a result.

     


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    I think alfa is doing a great job. We are talking in a sport car forum about alfa!!! Just remeber the shit car they delivered some years ago....nurburgring record...not even in my dreams i could think of an alfa being the fastest sedan....it was just not possible. And since the i terior is nice like the giulia and if the infotainment is common with other cars i just dont care since today our cars are more likely smartphones with weels. The things to complain is probably only with the look, where they should have been more agressive and not so audi bmw addicted. But having a rwd alfa with nice engines and fantastic handling even better then the best 3 series is just something incredible.

    since marchionne is not a car guy I must say that I did not expect him to decide to make alfa so much sporty and with so much interest in theway the car handles.

    in my old 993 i have vw polo components, but when I drive it everything of that stuff is just not important...


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    Meh interior.

    If your SUV doesn't have an amazing interior, you've failed miserably.


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    There's a reason why Chrysler entered bankruptcy and was merged with Fiat.   Chrysler Corporation produced poor quality vehicles that consumers would typically only purchase once, Jeep being the exception.   Quality was so poor that Mercedes sent its top engineering talent to the States in an effort to improve the product.   That failed because the issues were structural within Chrysler's supply chain as well.  Mercedes devoted so much manpower on Chrysler that its quality suffered too.   

    Alfa will follow not in its glorious ancient past but down the route of failure littered with Fiat and Chrysler products.

     


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    ISUK:
    CGX car nut:
     

    The same was said about Maserati too and those models share many components with other FCA models, notably those from Chrysler and Dodge.  Parts sharing is essential for profitability and if every component is new, and not shared with other models, then FCA will have some real issues with profitability as component pricing is based on volume.  

    It took Volkswagen years and billions upon billions of Marks/Euros to elevate Audi into the premium range.  FCA doesn't have the capital nor the expertise, especially with Marchionne as tyrant, to move the needle with Alfa Romeo.  This is a tired retread of what he tried to do, and failed, with Maserati.  Marchionne is diverting scarce free cash flow from Jeep, its most profitable business unit, and diverting it to his follies.

    Component sharing is common place across the car industry. If you want to look at real parts sharing under the surface then take a look at VW group cars including Porsche, Bentley and Lamborghini. You don't have to scratch far below the skin to find a lot of Audi stamped parts Smiley

    The criticisms of Maserati have mainly centred around switchgear and the infotainment system etc. That criticism could have been levelled at the previous generation Ferrari Calfornia which also shared components such as it's infotainment unit with the Grand Cherokee. The bottom line line is that Maserati have gone from a low point of 6k cars per annum to close to 50k with the new models and the Levante is only just coming on stream. It has introduced more bespoke items that have been carried over into the revised Ghibli and Quattroporte models in a process of continuous improvement.

    I don't think Marchionne is doing a bad job of relaunching these famous Italian brands considering both were limping along in the slow lane and in danger of failing completely. He has resisted the temptation to simply rebody Jeep models to provide quick solution SUV's and instead given both Maserati and Alfa bespoke platforms from which they can spin off a whole series of new models if the initial models launched sell in sufficient numbers. He should be given credit for that as it's something the old FIAT management would almost certainly not have done as their failure to replace the well received 147/156/916 GTV and Spider models of the 90's with proper "Alfa" replacements shows. They took the easy route by co-developing the 159, Brera and Spider with GM and using FIAT platforms for their MiTo and Giulietta models. In the process they totally lost sight of what Alfa stood for and lost customers in droves as a result.

     

    147/156 are based on a Fiat Tipo platform from the early 1990s!


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    The Tipo was launched in 1988 and the Alfa 155 was the first FIAT ownership era Alfa to use it's floorpan. The floor pan used by the 147 and 156 was so heavily revised that it was almost a new platform. The Tipo was far ahead of the competition in terms of it's modular platform sharing design and it was a philosophy that was quickly adopted by the likes of VW. It is not uncommon for platforms to have a long production life across various models as they are costly to engineer and tool up for. Porsche got plenty of life out of the 996 platform through into the 997 series


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    The Stelvio QV is major league quick,kiss So why bother with a ho hum Macan and its options pricing hell. yes


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    ISUK:

    The Tipo was launched in 1988 and the Alfa 155 was the first FIAT ownership era Alfa to use it's floorpan. The floor pan used by the 147 and 156 was so heavily revised that it was almost a new platform. The Tipo was far ahead of the competition in terms of it's modular platform sharing design and it was a philosophy that was quickly adopted by the likes of VW. It is not uncommon for platforms to have a long production life across various models as they are costly to engineer and tool up for. Porsche got plenty of life out of the 996 platform through into the 997 series

    Almost new is not the same as new. My family still owns an 147 and it is an excellent car however the way it was build is similar to an 80s car (we also had an 1986 Prisma and it was very similar to the 147 in the metal body.)

     

     


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    It looks very nice! And I love this typical Alfa design of the wheels. kiss


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    A little anecdote from my early car days: I had a BMW 325i (E30 I think...) and got bored of the car fast. At that time (30 years or so ago), the 325i was one of the most desirable "sports" cars in it's class, pretty fast for it's time.

    I was looking to replace the 325i with a Alfa Romeo Spider, so I went to the local Alfa Romeo dealer to ask how much I would get for the BMW 325i. He looked at me as if I am crazy. "You want to replace that BMW with the Spider? Are you nuts?". He refused to make an offer because he said the 325i is so much superior and I would never be happy with the Spider if I come from the BMW. yes I was quite p.ss.d at the Alfa dealer, so I never bothered to try another one but this guy, he was the owner of the dealership, seriously told me that this would be too much of a downgrade to make me happy. angry Probably the most honest sales person I ever encountered. No, he wasn't joking and he was pretty serious.

    This dealer doesn't exist anymore (I wonder why...  angry...I guess honesty doesn't pay off in this job).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    RC:

     

    This dealer doesn't exist anymore (I wonder why...  angry...I guess honesty doesn't pay off in this job).

    He is now a BMW dealer Smiley


    --

    AM


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    ALDO:
    RC:

     

    This dealer doesn't exist anymore (I wonder why...  angry...I guess honesty doesn't pay off in this job).

    He is now a BMW dealer Smiley

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    The standard version in real life looks a lot less impressive...


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    A base model Macan is hardly impressive aesthetically either to be fair In fact you could say that about most cars on the market. Any SUV sitting on smaller diameter wheels tends to look underwhelming in photographs.  This lower spec car in metallic red looks pretty good to me and will definitely sell well. Alfa's biggest challenge is sorting out the poor dealer network. Most criticisms I've seen around the launch of the Giulia centre upon the poor product knowledge of dealer staff, confused info coming out of the sales and marketing operation in Italy (it's been like this for the 30 years I've had Alfas and is ridiculous in this day and age) and the badly displayed product stuck into corners of showrooms amongst a see of Fiat and Jeep cars. I encountered that myself on Sunday at a dealer close to me who only had a very basic spec Giulia in the showroom with no real effort made at all to position it well for potential buyers to look around it, no marketing material in evidence and no real sales effort to engage with anyone looking around it. Reid Bigland needs to take a tour of his dealer network in both Europe and the US to realise that no matter how good the cars are he is going to struggle to tempt customers away from Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar who all have a massive lead in this area.

    Metallic red.JPG


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    I prefer the more subtle looks of the base version


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    There are significant issues that need addressing in FCA in addition to, or in spite of, the Alfa-Romeo dealer network, which in the States is virtually non-existent.   Part of the problem is that the Alfa dealer network in the States was to launch from the Fiat dealer network which, politely, is stillborn. Fiat's product mix offers nothing beyond niche products and the substantial price reductions for 2017 is destructive to current inventory pricings and definitely destructive to resale values of purchased vehicles.   This is a guaranteed way to anger the existing customer base.

    Of course, this is almost rendered moot by the overall hamfisted management of the parent.   By plowing investment into Maserati, another near stillborn entity, and into Alfa-Romeo, FCA has severely neglected required investment in its core cash producing product lines, namely Jeep.  Every other brand is geographically constrained, not global.   Jeep needs a seven seat vehicle in its portfolio, yet the company dithers on with talk of future product to take on the likes of Range-Rover.  

    Latest word is Jeep has shelved the seven seat vehicle, after listing in its product roadmap to its dealers, because the Grand Cherokee platform couldn't be extended.  This is nonsense as Chrysler offers a seven seat variant.   The same issues of dated product exist for Chrysler and Dodge, with the majority of product based on an updated 1980s Mercedes-Benz E-Class platform.   

    Of course, there's the typical Chrysler inventory stuffing and subprime lending that has the company bouncing from financial disaster to disaster.   In the States, auto sales are propped by consumers overextending themselves with virtually 1/3 of all purchase rolling in negative equity, meaning the consumer owns more than the car is worth, into new financed purchases.   This can't continue indefinitely and some FCA dealers are reporting almost 90% of new purchases  financed through loans roll in negative equity.   The problem is exacerbated with over 30% of the vehicles being leased.

    Sergio must be spending too much time with Lapo for forging this strategy for FCA. When this folly collapses, one hopes the Trump Administration investigates the failure, as well as the past Administration's conflicts-Steve Rattner-to understand it and assess damage done to the U.S. taxpayer.

     

     

     

     


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    ISUK:

    A base model Macan is hardly impressive aesthetically either to be fair In fact you could say that about most cars on the market. Any SUV sitting on smaller diameter wheels tends to look underwhelming in photographs.  This lower spec car in metallic red looks pretty good to me and will definitely sell well. 

     

    Agree 100%.


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    ISUK:

     

    147928974891221.JPG

     

    Quadrifoglio badge "a la Ferrari" on the front fender looks good Smiley


    --

     

    J.Seven

     

     

     


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    Apart from the V-shaped grill and the 5-clover rims it could be any brand. Alpha has created some stunning cars (8C being my favorite), but this is too generic to be interesting.
    In the broader perspective, it´s sad to see how many car companies seem to base their design on focus groups instead of having the guts to stand out and go for a more characteristic look.



    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    Faster than a 996.2 GT3...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    Only if you use tires and asphalt from 2003...


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    I just noticed theres 2 cuts in the video...

    0.58 and 3:29

    About 7+ seconds cut total Smiley

     

     

     


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    noone1:

    Only if you use tires and asphalt from 2003...

    Yeah I’m nice not positive, but I think that GT3 had street tires.  What does the Stelvio use?


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    Alfas come back has been with record both with stelvio and giulia, pretty good job.

    inimmaginable just some years ago


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    Topspeed:

    I just noticed theres 2 cuts in the video...

    0.58 and 3:29

    About 7+ seconds cut total Smiley

     

    (reload the page if videos don't start  at the same time)

    First cut:

    http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHrU00xoUy8A&start1=52&video2=https%3A%2F%2...

    Second cut:

    http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHrU00xoUy8A&start1=204&video2=https%3A%2F%...

    About 7 seconds cut (if the Stelvio was as fast as the GT2 RS). In reality is 10+ secs.

    Unbelievable how Alfa did such thing...

     

     



    Re: Alfa Stelvio

    Who really cares about Alfa Romeo anyway?

    Alfa Romeo had it all in the 60s/early 70s and then they lost it all. Nowadays there are so many good cars around. Does anyone wait for Alfa Romeo to come back from the dead?

    BTW I've been an Alfista myself and owned 4 in total, until I discovered BMW...then.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


     
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