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    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Homo sapiens ..insignificant blip in the eventual full timeline of this : 

    https://youtu.be/DMdhQsHbWTs


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Um... Can we get this thread back on track again, please?

    rulesdontapply


    --

    2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
    2012 Porsche Cayenne S [gone but never forgotten]


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    CGX car nut:
    RC:
    sfo:

    Tesla is for rich folks with no interest in cars, or who want to project a green image. I would shop for a Tesla the same way I shop for a toaster.

    There are Teslas on display at Canary Wharf this week. I took a look at one last night .. interior looks OK, but build quality is poor. It feels cheap and flaky. It does not give me any sense of engineering or build integrity

    This is the typical US car feel, no need to worry. Smiley Smiley

    Drive one, you will like it (unless you drive down some curvy country roads...) but this is not a car for having fun but a car to enjoy the ride comfort and flaunt a certain technology.

    I would keep a Tesla S85 as my fifth or sixth car in the garage (if I could afford so many cars) but I would never buy one as my single car. Never ever.

    Once again, the Tesla Model S, based on your statements, remains a niche, limited use vehicle with the only upsides being performance from 0-30 mph and "green" credentials.  However, unlike you, one doesn't view the Tesla as real innovation.  

    I really think that Tesla stirred up the market for electric cars, actually they created their own market, which is even more formidable. The Tesla would be an innovation if the chassis and weight would be as great as the rest of the tech. Right now, I think that the Tesla S is some kind of beta (or even alpha) version of a product which may or may not evolve over time and offer some real greatness and innovation in a decade or two from now on. Being the "first" was important for Tesla but I am afraid that Tesla won't "survive" this, unless Elon Musk is willing to pump more and more funds into Tesla, without actually caring about real profits. I do not believe Tesla will be bought by a larger car manufacturer but I do believe that at some point, Tesla may be "killed" by a large car manufacturer. Smaller car companies have failed in the past, even innovative ones. 

    I like the Tesla S but to become my only car, it needs a much lower weight and a more refined chassis.  Also, it needs to provide a more emotional driving experience, other than playing around with that display in the middle console. Smiley You cannot fully accelerate from green light to red light, this is getting ridiculous at some point. The insane mode is fun to show off but at some point, it becomes useless.

    Right now, I'm not too much into electric cars. Yes, I am fascinated by them, even liked the e-mode of the Cayenne and Panamera hybrid models I drove. Not a fan of the hybrid though, can't help it but I can see the attraction of a car like the 918.

    I totally get it why people, who have a car collection of exceptional cars, incl. some real sports cars, also have a Tesla in their stable. It makes sense. Every true car lover should have a Tesla S85 in his garage, no doubt about it and if I had the money to be able to afford several high priced cars, I would do so. Since I cannot afford it, I need to prioritize my car "collection" and unfortunately, the Tesla S isn't in it. That simple.

    If Elon Musk reads this, I would certainly accept a Tesla S85 testcar for some while, some sort of Tesla review from the eyes of a Porsche owner. Smiley Since I doubt he is a member, I'm afraid I have to refrain from the pleasure to drive a Tesla S permanently. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    'insane mode' is a pathetic attempt to make a dull car interesting

    and like someone without a personality telling a great joke, which does not bear repeating too much


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    BTW isn't Elon Musk a Porsche fan and didn't he crash his 991 GT3 v soon after he got it....think I read that on Rennlist


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    sfo:

    'insane mode' is a pathetic attempt to make a dull car interesting

    and like someone without a personality telling a great joke, which does not bear repeating too much

    I find the technology quite interesting and the approach of adding features via software tuning even more. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    That's the beauty of hybrid/electric drive, software tuning. Either by revving the electric motor faster or letting more current through the system.

    Just like the 918's hybrid system, Tesla built their electric system with a healthy safety margin, for reliability other reasons. Through testing, they can find out how close they can cut into the safety margin without compromising safety and reliability. Porsche did it by re-rating the electric motors, Tesla did the same thing. The difference is, Porsche didn't charge extra for the performance that was already there, Tesla did.

    It's like tuning a conventional motor, but without the mechanical work. 


    --

     

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    sfo:

    'insane mode' is a pathetic attempt to make a dull car interesting

    and like someone without a personality telling a great joke, which does not bear repeating too much

     

    yes..I know exactly which dull car you are referring to ...the 997 / 991 Turbo and their gimmicky 15 second " overboost " feature ...now coming on the 991.2 turbo motors , also !


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Whoopsy:

    That's the beauty of hybrid/electric drive, software tuning. Either by revving the electric motor faster or letting more current through the system.

    Just like the 918's hybrid system, Tesla built their electric system with a healthy safety margin, for reliability other reasons. Through testing, they can find out how close they can cut into the safety margin without compromising safety and reliability. Porsche did it by re-rating the electric motors, Tesla did the same thing. The difference is, Porsche didn't charge extra for the performance that was already there, Tesla did.

    It's like tuning a conventional motor, but without the mechanical work. 

    Hmm... How about this Auto Bild tested Tesla 85D and made attempt to do several 0-100km/h runs...

    First run 3.5s, second run 4.0s, third run 4.5s, fourth run almost 5s, fifth run almost 5.5s, sixth run did not happened.

    When I drove Tesla I noticed the same thing, after two hard accelerations till say it 160km/h car started to hesitate. 

    Tesla also sucked big time on not so fast autobahn (till around 170km) driving. Not providing enough oomph for long autobahn driving.

    This thing is apparently designed to impress on red lights but, only up to 5 red light races in a row.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Since 98% of the world population never drives above 100mph high speed highway is really not an issue...

    A normal driver would not do several 0-100 in a row, again, a non issue really...


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    SciFrog:

    Since 98% of the world population never drives above 100mph high speed highway is really not an issue...

    A normal driver would not do several 0-100 in a row, again, a non issue really...

    Really?

    Imagine overtaking several trucks on say it 350km long run on the autobahn. Three or four runs from 100km/h till 160km/h with full throttle amd Tesla starts to suffer. This car only impresses in the city. 

    Not to mentione Citroen CX like drive dynamics...


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    you guys are internet bench racing Teslas , LOL and are totally unclear on the reason for its success ! It has nothing to do with zero to infiniti drag strip performance , etc. 

    Here in Silicon Valley, it seems every guy who drove an Audi A8 and BMW 7 series swapped for a more expensive Tesla S as well as many MBZ S class owners and you can be sure every dealer here knows that ( as well as the execs back in the fatherland  !) 

    these buyers are not idiots...they know the interiors are not even at the level of an A6, 5 or E class ...they could care less ...they think it is cool to drive an eerily silent , swift vehicle ...but more importantly , an easily identified silhouette to put the hoi polloi in their place

    that is exactly the same reason 90% of 911 buyers chose it over cars like a Corvette at half its price but with better numbers , etc.etc...it is about making a statement of your " class " 

    competitors struggle  because they put hybridy powertrains  anonymously into their regular bodies ...buyers want to make an emphatic statement through a quick glance driving by ...not via someone spotting a blue colored badge on the rear trunk lid in a parking lot 

    many of  these Tesla owners previuosly drove Toyota Priuses to work even though they were paying double for a car that had a  worse performance and interiors than a Toyota Corolla model at less than half its price ...because it also made a visual statement of its dribelonging to a certain " class " of person 

    and for any of you who resent what Tesla is vs say a MBZ ...look at yourselves ...if you are an Apple product junky , you have fallen into the exact cult like trap that Musk planned to a T from day one ...a product with fewer bells and whistles vs " superior " Google/Android/ Microsoft laptops, tablets, mobile phones but whch commands a much higher brand price premium because of a shrewdly calculated overall user experience and more importantly ..being of a easily visually different " class " vs say, the ghetto stigma pay as you go give away Android type phone ! 

    I better quit mentioning Apple and Tesla in the same paragraph ....I I might get in trouble !

    Smiley

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    RC your are missing the point. Tesla potential buyers (and 95% of the general population) don't care about the deficiencies you mention...


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Think of what you really do for most of your driving. Obviously it will be different for everyone but the majority of my driving, day-in day-out is a drive from my house in a dense urban location to my office 7km away. I drive in with my wife and it's one of the few times we're alone and able to be normal adults without kids. In the morning it takes 7-15 minutes in the evening in rush hour it can be almost 45 minutes if it's really bad but usually 25 minutes. We also go to our place in the country, which is 230km away, probably 2 times a month. More than half of that trip has 80km speed limits...

    So I need a car that has really good zip in the morning to get infront of people at lights or to get into the right lane, being able to get a better parking spot near the elevator because of the type of car is a bonus. I need something that is quiet and easy which won't further stress my nerves in the evening when my 8 minute commute is taking more than 4 times that amount and I need something that will go 230km with two kids in the car (hopefully sleeping) and all the crap my wife packs every week-end to go to a house where we have closets of clothes and food in the freezer... Being able to blast down an on-ramp without my wife giving me a dirty look for driving so fast with the kids in the car is a bonus. 

    I think a Tesla can do all of those things as least as well as most other cars. 


    --

     

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    MKW:
    sfo:

    'insane mode' is a pathetic attempt to make a dull car interesting

    and like someone without a personality telling a great joke, which does not bear repeating too much

     

    yes..I know exactly which dull car you are referring to ...the 997 / 991 Turbo and their gimmicky 15 second " overboost " feature ...now coming on the 991.2 turbo motors , also !

    Smiley  How many real-world situations (on the road or even the track) would allow you to use the over-boost function for longer than 15 seconds?  


    --

    fritz


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Mithras:

    Think of what you really do for most of your driving. Obviously it will be different for everyone but the majority of my driving, day-in day-out is a drive from my house in a dense urban location to my office 7km away. I drive in with my wife and it's one of the few times we're alone and able to be normal adults without kids. In the morning it takes 7-15 minutes in the evening in rush hour it can be almost 45 minutes if it's really bad but usually 25 minutes. We also go to our place in the country, which is 230km away, probably 2 times a month. More than half of that trip has 80km speed limits...

    So I need a car that has really good zip in the morning to get infront of people at lights or to get into the right lane, being able to get a better parking spot near the elevator because of the type of car is a bonus. I need something that is quiet and easy which won't further stress my nerves in the evening when my 8 minute commute is taking more than 4 times that amount and I need something that will go 230km with two kids in the car (hopefully sleeping) and all the crap my wife packs every week-end to go to a house where we have closets of clothes and food in the freezer... Being able to blast down an on-ramp without my wife giving me a dirty look for driving so fast with the kids in the car is a bonus. 

    I think a Tesla can do all of those things as least as well as most other cars. 


    --

     

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

     

    dont forget, the Tesla S sedan can be ordered with two rear facing fold away child seats , like they offer in an MBZ station wagon , but are safer as they use 5 pt restraints vs just usual lap/ shoulder belt on the latter . In this case , the vehicle can carry 7 passengers to and from the pee wee soccer game , just like they can in their family SUV ..and when those jump seats are folded flat in the floor , you have the large luggage capacity of both front and rear trunks while carrying 5 adults ! 

    http://insideevs.com/consumer-reports-to-test-tesla-model-s-7-passenger-capability/

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    And it has two trunks... I watched the Model X intro video from 2012 and you have to admit that they try to solve many daily problems no other car manufacturers has in the past...


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Apple Car in 2019! I still want my Porsche! indecision

    http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-car-launch-date-rumors-2015-9


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Not self driving. Amazing industry shake up. From WSJ so not really a rumor anymore...


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Wait for Google to buy Tesla!


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    And SpaceX! Apple Satellites next! angel


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    EnglishManInNY:

    Wait for Google to buy Tesla!

    their cultures and founders do not " align " , however ...the world's most valuable company ....

    Smiley


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Tesla is too expensive for anyone to buy right now. In a few years of the competition heats up and Tesla makes a couple of missteps maybe...


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    SciFrog:

    Tesla is too expensive for anyone to buy right now. In a few years of the competition heats up and Tesla makes a couple of missteps maybe...

    who needs to be bought / buy ...strategic alignments of companies whose bosses and execs are all neighbors ....

    Smiley


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    There's really no point to buying Tesla since they open sourced their patents:

    http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Lets not forget that the recent surge in Tesla share price is probably more to do with the Battery and Energy grid focus more than cars. How much is the energy storage business worth in the near future....


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    apias:

    There's really no point to buying Tesla since they open sourced their patents:

     

    see above ..it is all about the synergy of what each company itself does best from soup to nuts incl consumer retail ( which Google is absolutely clueless / major fails with as we all know ) above and beyond priceless values of their " brand  " 


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Google is getting squeezed by Amazon and Apple right now. The need to do something. Does Elon stay at Larry Page's apartment when he visits the valley!?


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Oh and wouldn't it free up Elon to focus on his visit to Mars? indecision


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    EnglishManInNY:

    Lets not forget that the recent surge in Tesla share price is probably more to do with the Battery and Energy grid focus more than cars. How much is the energy storage business worth in the near future....

    In spite of the impression that Elon Musk tried to project in his introduction of the energy storage products, Tesla is far from being the only company or even the first one in that field. Developing that market will be another hard slog, as  -  just like with EVs  -  the rhetoric is well ahead of the economically viable technology for a mass market. 


    --

    fritz


     
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