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    Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Here is somebody who is pretty unhappy with the decisions made by Porsche over the last few years.

    Kind of long, but whoever wrote it does bring up a few good points.

    http://www.autospies.com/news/Has-Porsche-lost-its-magic-touch-8488/

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    ah, thats just a typical phase, whenever something evolves.

    you can see it every where, from punk bands being called sellouts when signing to a major label to this example...

    and i have to say: i am new to porsche, and i do get the goose bumps when i get in my car..

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    I'm also unhappy with how Porsche is going about its business at the moment. They are making alot of $$$ but it's like they sold their soul in doing so. Never mind the looks of 911's, I'm happy (almost) with that. A 911 should look like a 911.
    They should just make the cars look more special. And why should someone have to look twice to see thats a Turbo driving past, not a Carrera? Why should one have to try to listen to a Turbo, driving....Instead of HEARING one??? So that they can make more cash by selling PSE's?! Whats up with that. Maybe they are trying to make the Turbo more of a GT that a proper sports car... And That SUCKS.
    Then theres their new cars perfomances. Yes they still make fast and competant cars but it's either they got lazy and didnt make as much of an effort as they usually do or the competition got much better.
    The 993 Turbos competitor was the Ferrari F355 and the Porsche was simply in a different league all together. That Turbo could even hold its own with regard to sound when it stood next to the F.

    Then the 996 Turbo and 360 Modena. The gap closed a bit but the Porsche was still the better performer.
    997 Turbo??? Most reviews I'm reading are saying the two are on par with each other or the 430 is better. And since when could one hear that a Chevy was faster than a Turbo.

    These days a driver of a Carrera S or even a GT3 will turn his head away when a BMW M5/M6 with 4 people sitting in it stops next to them at the traffic lights Same goes for a Merc E55, SL55, SL65 or even an Audi RS4....BMW's gonna release the new M3 soon and that will for sure be faster than the Carrera's.
    Did you guys know that a Renault Megane Sport is faster than a Carrera S with regard to certain runs between 60 and 120KPH. It's been tested over here...



    Performance, although important, is only one aspect that worries me. Porsche are making cars that are cheaper and less 'special' now also. WHY??? To make more cash
    Why make a V6 Cayenne??? Its SLOW. A SLOW Porsche. I'll say it again: A SLOW PORSCHE. Same goes for the base Cayman. That car basically competes with Nissan 350Z's.
    The brand is losing its charm. They not gonna be special any more if things go on like this.

    What makes things worse is the fact that I dont see myself gettin any other sports car. I wont get a Ferrari or a Lambo... Theyre not for me. So I'm stuck with a brand that I Love but frustrates the [censored] out of me

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Quote:
    BC911J said:
    I'm also unhappy with how Porsche is going about its business at the moment. They are making alot of $$$ but it's like they sold their soul in doing so. Never mind the looks of 911's, I'm happy (almost) with that. A 911 should look like a 911.
    They should just make the cars look more special. And why should someone have to look twice to see thats a Turbo driving past, not a Carrera? Why should one have to try to listen to a Turbo, driving....Instead of HEARING one??? So that they can make more cash by selling PSE's?! Whats up with that. Maybe they are trying to make the Turbo more of a GT that a proper sports car... And That SUCKS.
    Then theres their new cars perfomances. Yes they still make fast and competant cars but it's either they got lazy and didnt make as much of an effort as they usually do or the competition got much better.
    The 993 Turbos competitor was the Ferrari F355 and the Porsche was simply in a different league all together. That Turbo could even hold its own with regard to sound when it stood next to the F.

    Then the 996 Turbo and 360 Modena. The gap closed a bit but the Porsche was still the better performer.
    997 Turbo??? Most reviews I'm reading are saying the two are on par with each other or the 430 is better. And since when could one hear that a Chevy was faster than a Turbo.

    These days a driver of a Carrera S or even a GT3 will turn his head away when a BMW M5/M6 with 4 people sitting in it stops next to them at the traffic lights Same goes for a Merc E55, SL55, SL65 or even an Audi RS4....BMW's gonna release the new M3 soon and that will for sure be faster than the Carrera's.
    Did you guys know that a Renault Megane Sport is faster than a Carrera S with regard to certain runs between 60 and 120KPH. It's been tested over here...



    Performance, although important, is only one aspect that worries me. Porsche are making cars that are cheaper and less 'special' now also. WHY??? To make more cash
    Why make a V6 Cayenne??? Its SLOW. A SLOW Porsche. I'll say it again: A SLOW PORSCHE. Same goes for the base Cayman. That car basically competes with Nissan 350Z's.
    The brand is losing its charm. They not gonna be special any more if things go on like this.

    What makes things worse is the fact that I dont see myself gettin any other sports car. I wont get a Ferrari or a Lambo... Theyre not for me. So I'm stuck with a brand that I Love but frustrates the [censored] out of me



    Why not get a Gallardo? It's very civilized and a great peformer.

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Yeah, I know the Gallardo is a good car, but I'm just a Porsche guy. Thats the frustrating part. Buying something else would make me feel like I'm being unfaithful to Porsche... Kinda like cheating on a girlfriend. It's stupid I know but thats how I feel.

    If I could afford a Lambo as well as a Porsche then bring it on anyday.
    I drove a Gallardo on track already and it feels and sounds awesome, but a GT3 feels and sounds better to me... Less exotic and showy sounds, more aggressive and race-car sounds. I prefer it like that.

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Quote:
    BC911J said:
    Yeah, I know the Gallardo is a good car, but I'm just a Porsche guy. Thats the frustrating part. Buying something else would make me feel like I'm being unfaithful to Porsche... Kinda like cheating on a girlfriend. It's stupid I know but thats how I feel.

    If I could afford a Lambo as well as a Porsche then bring it on anyday.
    I drove a Gallardo on track already and it feels and sounds awesome, but a GT3 feels and sounds better to me... Less exotic and showy sounds, more aggressive and race-car sounds. I prefer it like that.



    So buy the new GT3 !

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Thats what I'm planning on doing. That or a Turbo, it depends on what I prefer after I drive both.

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Quote:
    BC911J said:
    Yeah, I know the Gallardo is a good car, but I'm just a Porsche guy. Thats the frustrating part. Buying something else would make me feel like I'm being unfaithful to Porsche... Kinda like cheating on a girlfriend. It's stupid I know but thats how I feel.





    You might consider visiting the Ferrari & Lambo dealers, doing test drives, etc.

    Sooner or later you might realize that the other options (i.e. other than Porsche) are also quite nice...

    Just try it - it seems to work in my case

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Whats up
    I've driven some Italians.
    The Gallardo, compared to my GT3 is faster, obviously....But It feels heavier. Turn in is faster and it is in my opinion a bit more accurate through corners, but my 996 feels more nimble no doubt. And believe it or not I prefer the sound of the 911...that boxer engine could just be a bit louder thats all.
    Plus I prefer RWD over 4WD. Thats why I'm also having a closer look at the new Turbo. I've heard it feels just like a RWD car. Plus the 4wd will be handy when driving in the wet.

    I've driven A Maserati 4200GT as well and I love it. Its a VERY cool car IMO but as a sports car it doesnt come close to even my current car.
    Driven a 360 Modena and hated it, but never driven a F430. I've been in one while they were gunning it, but never drove it. It doesnt apeal to me thats all.



    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    There are a few decisions in the past which are questionable, the Cayman is a very good example and the lack of success in Germany and some other countries may prove me right. Not because the Cayman is a bad product, it was just the wrong marketin decision. If they would have sold it as a Boxster Coupe for the same money as a Boxster Roadster, it would have been a success, I'm pretty sure. Asking more money for a Coupe and offering the same power now, is insane. The Cayman won't last too long in the Porsche family I'm afraid.

    Many people think that the Cayenne was a mistake too, personally I think that the Cayenne Turbo was a great product with lots of Porsche genes but the Cayenne V6 wasn't really something Porsche should have put on the market. The Cayenne is also too expensive in my opinion, it should have been positioned below the Carrera prices with the Cayenne Turbo at around the same price tag as a Carrera S.

    I also think that the Boxster has not enough power and the rear should have been changed a little bit more on the 987.
    There is also the 997 Carrera which in my opinion should have had 381 HP from the start with a naked "beginners" model, a 997 Carrera with 350 HP and not one HP below.

    Then take the 997 Turbo, this car is fast like hell but still...not much better than the competition or even at par with it. Not what I expected from Porsche, considering the impressive 993 Turbo when it showed up 10 years or so ago.

    Then, there is the GT3 which in my opinion is one of the products which is almost perfect, regarding power, performance AND price tag. Almost.

    What comes next? Porsche introduces the Panamera and the expansion is finished for the time being. Porsche has to be careful with the current resources, even if the new engine production facility is ready for the future.

    So how could Porsche bring back the magic? Pretty simple: IMPRESS people, give them the WOW factor again. A Carrera GT here and a GT3RS there won't do the trick for the masses, especially not for customers.

    Give customers more power, more sportiness, more bang for the money, more emotions, more exhaust/engine sound and especially let them FEEL that they drive a Porsche, from each and every point of view.
    Last night I was playing at a friend's house "Testdrive Unlimited" on his XBox360 with the kids. There are several cars for testdriving, incl. the Ferrari Enzo, F430 and some US muscle cars. Oh boy, did these cars sounds sexy, I really got addicted to their engine sound and this was only a game.

    My 997 Turbo is the best example for Porsche's problem nowadays: it is a great sportscar but every time I drive it, I ask myself: why didn't they add 50 horses more, it could easily handle more power. And where's the sexy engine/exhaust sound I was hoping for, my 997 Turbo sounds BORING. Now this is something Porsche has to understand: they words PORSCHE and BORING don't go together too well. This is when people start to doubt and to think that Porsche may have become just another mass producer without caring about what the customers really want.

    To be honest: why the heck didn't they ask US?

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Last night I was playing at a friend's house "Testdrive Unlimited" on his XBox360 with the kids. There are several cars for testdriving, incl. the Ferrari Enzo, F430 and some US muscle cars. Oh boy, did these cars sounds sexy, I really got addicted to their engine sound and this was only a game.

    My 997 Turbo is the best example for Porsche's problem nowadays: it is a great sportscar but every time I drive it, I ask myself: why didn't they add 50 horses more, it could easily handle more power. And where's the sexy engine/exhaust sound I was hoping for, my 997 Turbo sounds BORING. Now this is something Porsche has to understand: they words PORSCHE and BORING don't go together too well.
    To be honest: why the heck didn't they ask US?



    No problem here RC. I just got in from a drive in my 928 with custom exhaust. Best sounding car I have ever heard. Porsche made one great sounding V8 when you release it. Every touch of the peddle results in a great sound, even lifting the peddle creates a high compression burble.

    At a quick pace the car is just planted, quiet, and responsive and stops on a dime. And at night with those unique headlights it just looks awesome. I have said before my car is a real life video game, can't drive like a video game though.

    Back to the future Porsche!

    I hope they read our comments about the panamera mule.

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Hope no one minds a pic taken by some 928 folks, its a beautiful photo of a beautiful car;

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    I agree with all of RC's opinions.
    Except I think they will gradually reprice the Cayman lower instead of getting rid of it.

    As for the Cayenne Turbo, again I agree they have to reprice it lower, and get rid of the normal turbo, just keep the "turbo S" power around $90k in the US. Only then would I reconsider buying another pepper TT when time comes around. I agree also in the C TT retaining Porsche roots. After diving exetensively a Q7 4.2, the Cayenne is in a whole other league interm of handling, fell and power.

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    Hope no one minds a pic taken by some 928 folks, its a beautiful photo of a beautiful car;



    Beautiful pic of one of the IMHO greatest Porsche ever !

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    RC... we'll all sign a petition for you to be head of Porsche's marketing, engineering, and Chairman of the board.

    I totally agree with all your points... Porsche needs a reality check and they need it fast.

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    RacerX thats a nice pic. I saw a 928 the other day- the car just looks so "Porsche". I thought the final version around 1994 was the nicest.

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    [...} with lots of Porsche genes. [...]



    I'd say that's what it boils down to. Porsche has always been about remarkable engineering and efficiency. The Cayenne surely incorporates the first, but I have my doubts regarding the second aspect. The Cayenne's success was based on a fashionable idea - the idea of a all-purpose vehicle, that Porsche definately impressed with. In fact the car is so unique that it might still receive a part in Porsche's history books. Right next to the Lohner-Porsche...

    I agree on the difficulties with the Cayman - Porsche always had the talent to take the money out of the customers' pockets - and they were even feeling fine about it! The Cayman was a move just too far - and too obvious. It indeed is a sad thng, especially since the car would be marvellous with 380hp and LSD!

    Current pricing is - at least in my eyes - beyond good and evil. The upcoming Targa, in decent configuration, goes for well over 100 thousand bucks - a ten year old 993 version for about a third of the price, with less depretiation! This would even make me accept the technical drawbacks on the older car opposed to the modern version.
    The current lineup and output of new models and derivatives and the depretiation that follows makes me quite reluctant to spent such an amount of cash on a current Porsche. That is the sad thing!

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Here's another article that's relevant to this discussion:

    From Moneycontrol India - Porsche's Risky Roll on an SUV

    click HERE for link to article

    An excerpt:

    Quote:
    Reinvention

    German companies have also had to reinvent themselves, as Porsche accomplished between '93 and the present, he continues. In a sense Porsche is applying Japanese production processes of lean production while still producing German-made cars and maintaining the German reputation for quality automobiles. And since 2000 or so, German workers have in general been moderating their wage demands, allowing German firms to become more competitive vis-à-vis other European countries. Improved productivity helps unit labor costs in Germany decline over time.




    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Very interesting and enlightening.

    Thanks Gary.

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Quote:
    RC said:

    To be honest: why the heck didn't they ask US?



    I believe they didn't ask us because most of us in this forum are die hard fans and we don't represent the "average" Porsche buyer.

    Now Porsche is selling around 100,000 cars so even if they listen to us let's say 1,000 fans they still have to figure out what the other 99,000 want .... I bet you those guys want more comfort, more cup holders, less "extreme" cars, .....

    PS: I'm not saying that I'm happy with the current trend, I'm just saying that I understand it.
    Actually, I'm considering buying a "Classic" and I'm in the market for a 911 2.4l S Targa (preferably a 73 MY) so if any of you has one for sale .... I'm in the market !!!! Oldies but goodies ...

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    RC... we'll all sign a petition for you to be head of Porsche's marketing, engineering, and Chairman of the board.

    I totally agree with all your points... Porsche needs a reality check and they need it fast.




    I totally agree...but...does Porsche matter about our oppinions as unconditionals of "Stuttgart"?

    Or they rather prefer the oppinion of that "mass" they are trying to attract?

    For me is really difficult to say this words, as far as Porsche has been the car brand of my life.... a sort of "love", but, I have to admitt, that the "magic" is in process of going away (not still).

    But besides "feelings" we have to face the real life. To us, car lovers, other brands are giving very interesting alternatives. More performance, less weight, more reasonable prices..........I'd love Porsche heads could hear words from the unnconditionals...maybe they should follow two branches, the classic sportive spirit, and the "sport" comercial line......

    The fact is there are hughe interests that escape to the data we have, and related to this point, our oppinions are useless.

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Quote:
    Byron said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    RC... we'll all sign a petition for you to be head of Porsche's marketing, engineering, and Chairman of the board.

    I totally agree with all your points... Porsche needs a reality check and they need it fast.




    I totally agree...but...does Porsche matter about our oppinions as unconditionals of "Stuttgart"?

    Or they rather prefer the oppinion of that "mass" they are trying to attract?

    For me is really difficult to say this words, as far as Porsche has been the car brand of my life.... a sort of "love", but, I have to admitt, that the "magic" is in process of going away (not still).

    But besides "feelings" we have to face the real life. To us, car lovers, other brands are giving very interesting alternatives. More performance, less weight, more reasonable prices..........I'd love Porsche heads could hear words from the unnconditionals...maybe they should follow two branches, the classic sportive spirit, and the "sport" comercial line......

    The fact is there are hughe interests that escape to the data we have, and related to this point, our oppinions are useless.



    Ahhh... however, collectively our opinions do matter.

    Re: Has Porsche Lost It's Magic Touch? (Autospies Article)

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    Byron said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    RC... we'll all sign a petition for you to be head of Porsche's marketing, engineering, and Chairman of the board.

    I totally agree with all your points... Porsche needs a reality check and they need it fast.




    I totally agree...but...does Porsche matter about our oppinions as unconditionals of "Stuttgart"?

    Or they rather prefer the oppinion of that "mass" they are trying to attract?

    For me is really difficult to say this words, as far as Porsche has been the car brand of my life.... a sort of "love", but, I have to admitt, that the "magic" is in process of going away (not still).

    But besides "feelings" we have to face the real life. To us, car lovers, other brands are giving very interesting alternatives. More performance, less weight, more reasonable prices..........I'd love Porsche heads could hear words from the unnconditionals...maybe they should follow two branches, the classic sportive spirit, and the "sport" comercial line......

    The fact is there are hughe interests that escape to the data we have, and related to this point, our oppinions are useless.



    Ahhh... however, collectively our opinions do matter.



    Not if people despite their concerns continue to buy Porsche's.

     
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