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    I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    I don't like 911's. Any of them. Not even the 997. They are a throw back to the Beetle with a steroid treatment. The engine is in the wrong place. They are unstable and stupid.
    That's what I used to think until yesterday. Up until yesterday I had never driven one. But then yesterday I drove a 997 "S" courtesy of my Porsche dealer as I needed to know about PASM in case I wanted it on my Boxster. (You know,the Porsche for proper drivers because it is mid engined).
    What an education The sound, the performance, the traction, the sheer usability of the thing. Pottering along "in BMW mode" as the salesman put it. Or experiencing some of the performance. The unbelieveable quality and precision of everything you operate. The superb gearbox, the clutch feel, the steering. I could go on for ever.
    So, all you guys with 911's past and present I owe you my apologies for misjudging you and your cars. You were right after all.
    However, even if I could justify Pounds70k for such a machine I wouldn't buy one. My licence would last a week and I am not good enough a high performance driver to fully get the best of it. So I am doing the next best thing. Buying a Boxster and when I get it invest in a Porsche driving course.

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Nice comment!

    I do have to say that I'd enjoy both models on an equal level but with different priorities. I do have to admit that the first gen. Boxster was more of a toy than a serious machine to me. Even if I am alone with that opinion...

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Well, dreamcar, you are fortunate, in a way, that your first 911 was a 997.

    Early 911's were more of an "acquired" taste, so most people needed more than just a short test drive before they became "real" converts.

    "In a way" (see 1st. sentence above) because you now still have to find a way to get a test drive in an "old" 911 (say, pre-964, that's right "964" not "1964"!). That's the only way you'll ever really understand the real die-hard 911 fans.

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    You know, I had the same experience but backwards, I used to think (long long time ago ) that the Boxster was the "cheaper" 911 wannabe a youngsters toy, etc... until I tried one in an autocross now I respect the Boxster as much as the 911, its every bit as good and enjoyable as the 911 but with its own character (mid-engine, a tad lighter, etc), both are the best cars in their segment. The only weak point is the engine output, but imagine a Boxster with the 911 engine variants of course Porsche will not compete with itself and will keep then separated but I do wonder what a Boxster 987 "GT3RS" model would be capable of...

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Up until yesterday I had never driven one. But then yesterday I drove a 997 "S" courtesy of my Porsche dealer as I needed to know about PASM in case I wanted it on my Boxster.




    Nice move from the dealer...He knows his job for sure. You come for a boxster, and the sales guy manage to make you test the 991. That way ,you can change your order and he can make a bigger profit.

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Quote:
    amazon23 said:
    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Up until yesterday I had never driven one. But then yesterday I drove a 997 "S" courtesy of my Porsche dealer as I needed to know about PASM in case I wanted it on my Boxster.




    Nice move from the dealer...He knows his job for sure. You come for a boxster, and the sales guy manage to make you test the 991. That way ,you can change your order and he can make a bigger profit.



    I have learned enough about my dealer to know that was not the object. Even if it was he will be sadly disappointed. So am I!

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Anybody who rights his wrongs and admits it, always earns my respect.

    BTW... I agree with others that the Boxster is not a lesser Porsche either. It is just another design in the P-car line along the 550 tradition.

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    horizontally opposed mid engine, the best combination ever

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Quote:
    ADias said:

    BTW... I agree with others that the Boxster is not a lesser Porsche either. It is just another design in the P-car line along the 550 tradition.



    I don't believe the Boxster IS a lesser Porsche. Porsche don't always get it right IMHO, the van engined 924 proved that. Or the decision to put "Design by Porsche" on iffy Seat's. But the Boxster is spot on. Even the 2.5. Can I reserve judgment on the Cayenne? But I haven't driven a Cayenne! Don't want to make the same mistake twice

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Porsche don't always get it right IMHO, the van engined 924 proved that.


    I don't think that the 924, and its subsequent derivatives 944 and 968, were a bad thing for Porsche overall. Surely these models will have allowed Porsche to build up a bigger dealer network than the 911 could have supported alone, and the development of those models will have given Porsche an insight into more modern, efficient, production methods which the old "hand-made" 911 would never have.

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Or the decision to put "Design by Porsche" on iffy Seat's.


    The first SEAT Ibiza was developed by Porsche. I doubt that the project was a bad thing for either of the companies. It was probably good business for Porsche, and it enabled SEAT to break free from its reliance on manufacturing FIAT products under license.

    We can't judge the past, even the fairly recent past, purely by today's "standards".

    Karl Ludvigsen sez:

    Among all the driver's cars Boxster is "Porsche's masterpiece."

    Of all the driver's Porsches he rated it the number one.

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    dreamcar, congrats. You are honest and you have brains too.
    I was always a Lancia man. My first car was a Lancia Beta Coupe 2.0 with 115 HP. It had a top speed of 200 kph (125 mph) and in 1983 when I got this (used) car shortly before I picked up my driver's license, it was considered to be a sportscar, not really a car for a beginner. Lucky me, my dealer forgot to fill in engine oil (no kidding) when he sold me the car and after around 800 km, the engine was dead. A few years later at around 22, I had several Lancia Delta HF Integrale, incl. a group N race car and I loved the Integrale very much. After ending my racing "career" due to the lack of funds and sponsors, I had other "normal" cars, ending up with a BMW M3 E36 around 1992, my first stock car with almost 300 HP (actually 286).
    I drove this car almost four years and I loved it. But although I was happy with it, I was always dreaming of a more "real" sports car. I decided to buy a 993 out of my dealer's stock and now hold your breath, without even testdriving it. When I picked up the 993, I had a shock. The steering, brake pedal, clutch, everything worked so hard, everything needed much more force than with my M3. I was so disappointed, I almost was ready to return the car and sell it. But I started to learn about the 993's strong points, the traction, the very nice stability, the sound of the engine. I hated the gearbox because there was a rpm gap between certain gears, something I didn't know from the M3. By that time, the 993 felt like a pumped up 1960s car on steroids, they overall quality look and feel and especially the interior reminded me of much older cars, especially compared to the M3 which also had a very nice sound system, etc.

    Long story, short meaning: it is incredible how much the 997 changed compared to the 993. And at the same time, it still seems to be the same car. It is difficult to explain, maybe this is what makes the 911 that special.
    And don't laugh: I went to my local VW dealer to compare my 997 Carrera S directly to a VW Beetle. I just wanted to see myself if there really is a similarity in looks between both cars. It was a pretty spontaneous decision and I didn't have a camera with me but whenever I get the chance to do it again, I do it and take a picture. Surprisingly, the front of both cars looks completely different from each other. Not more similarity as between older 911s and the "old" original VW Beetle (Käfer). Relax guys.

    Regarding the driver's license: Walter Röhrl just has been asked in an interview why he doesn't own and drive a Carrera GT privately. His answer: "after 4 weeks, I would go by foot". Self-control isn't always easy with such cars, I agree with you. But learning to control a car like the 911 is pure fun. Maybe this is the reason why I like the 911: it is a challenging and fascinating relationship, not just a bling bling relationship where I put the car in the garage and look at it or where I enjoy driving it in the city to watch people looking at me. I love to drive my 997 Carrera S, it is a driving machine and this is all I need. PURE 100% FUN!

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Many thanks for your comments RC.
    The cars in my past that stand out for me :
    Ford Escort RS Mexico
    Ford Escort RS 2000 (the original proper rear wheel drive ones)
    Ford Sierra Cosworth (the whale tail 2 door one)
    Lancia Delta HF Integrale (185bhp) Probably the best drivers car of the lot, if not the quickest but fond memories of the Mexico and RS2000.
    The most disappointing
    Honda S2000

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    well dreamcar ,nice story ,i respect how you admitted your misjudgement.and believe me ,all the feelings you got from a test drive ,imagine what they are when you own the car and discover its limits as time passes..its a toy..
    rc ,we have a lot in common..attached is the picture of my hf i bought in 1993 ,i loved it so much,drove it standard for a year,then started making modifications as years passed by ,i payed three time its price for modif.,but the result was crazy : 420 hp 2.5 bar turbo boost ,sequential box etc... one hell of a car..sold it 3 years ago,nice memories...

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    I am trying NOT to think what it would be like to own a 997"S", thank you very much And you had a better Integrale than me. At least mine was red.

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    I am trying NOT to think what it would be like to own a 997"S", thank you very much And you had a better Integrale than me. At least mine was red.



    I had three Integrale, one white group N and two street versions, both red. The last one had water injection and a few group N mods, power was around 280 HP, maybe slightly more. I had so much fun with the Integrale, this is actually the only car from my past cars which I really cry about. I always wanted to buy a used one in good condition for fun only but...

    BTW: my former mentor who drove in the national european and world Rally championships (I think he was vice-world champion once after I didn't race anymore) and who is involved in the german DTM now (Opel) drives a 996 Carrera 2 Cab privately. Just as a hint what race car drivers, former professionals and Lancia pilots love... Pretty interesting that a lot of Porsche drivers in Europe seem to have owned a Lancia Delta HF Integrale in the past. For our American friends: this was a car in the size of a VW Golf and it kicked a.. because it was light, it was built for homologation purposes only and it had 4WD and a superb suspension setup. By it's time, even the 911 had no chance against a modified Integrale, only the top speed was a catastrophy because of bad aerodynamics. My 280+ HP Integrale did around 240 kph on the speedo, around real 235 kph. Fuel consumption way above 26 litres/100 km.

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    I am trying NOT to think what it would be like to own a 997"S", thank you very much And you had a better Integrale than me. At least mine was red.



    I had three Integrale, one white group N and two street versions, both red. The last one had water injection and a few group N mods, power was around 280 HP, maybe slightly more. I had so much fun with the Integrale, this is actually the only car from my past cars which I really cry about. I always wanted to buy a used one in good condition for fun only but...

    BTW: my former mentor who drove in the national european and world Rally championships (I think he was vice-world champion once after I didn't race anymore) and who is involved in the german DTM now (Opel) drives a 996 Carrera 2 Cab privately. Just as a hint what race car drivers, former professionals and Lancia pilots love... Pretty interesting that a lot of Porsche drivers in Europe seem to have owned a Lancia Delta HF Integrale in the past. For our American friends: this was a car in the size of a VW Golf and it kicked a.. because it was light, it was built for homologation purposes only and it had 4WD and a superb suspension setup. By it's time, even the 911 had no chance against a modified Integrale, only the top speed was a catastrophy because of bad aerodynamics. My 280+ HP Integrale did around 240 kph on the speedo, around real 235 kph. Fuel consumption way above 26 litres/100 km.


    rc ,i modified my hf in pure rally style ,my top speed was 170kph ,because it had a french gearbox called "1000 tours" meaning 1000 rpm,when you go on cutoff and change gear the rpm goes down only 1000rpm ,that why it had such low top speed ,but it took seconds from 0 to 170kph.it was a toy on twisty moutain road,really a rocket, but of course ridiculous on a highway. it needed one bottle of "super 104 +" that raised octane from 98 to 104 ,and 4 heads spark plugs every 500km.consumption was ridiculous with around 40L/100km .and what i liked most was the gearbox ,i used the clutch for the first gear only ,the other gears were shifted on the fly without clutch.but i never felt adrenaline rush with any car like i felt with that one ,and i realllly miss it

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Top speed was not what the Integrale was all about, as you say, it had the aerodynamics of a brick. BUT it would take on all-comers on the twisty bits. Mine was standard apart from a MoMo steering wheel. Fun being standard it was the ultimate "Q" car - just looked like a standard Delta! Best car I ever owned! If I get as much pleasure out of the Boxster when it arrives I will be well pleased.
    My first car was a rust-ridden Austin 1100 but that met its end when on a wet night it got totalled when hit by a stationary tree that someone had allowed to grow in a hedge
    What is the difference between men and boys? As you get older the toys become more expensive

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    What is the difference between men and boys? As you get older the toys become more expensive


    lol ... totally true...

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Hey I came over from a Corvette and used think the Porsche 911 was an over priced car (given prior HP and 0-60 times). Boy was i wrong. I now have my 997s and its a way better car than the Vette and much better than i expected. The handling is unreal. The build quality is outstanding. One one complaint...the cupholders need to be on a gyro so i stop spilling my coffee when i fly around corners :-) Its also amazing how many of these tricked out Japanese cars want to take a run at me ..... nice try :-) This is one serious machine.... :-)

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Quote:
    rjl said:
    Hey I came over from a Corvette and used think the Porsche 911 was an over priced car (given prior HP and 0-60 times). Boy was i wrong. I now have my 997s and its a way better car than the Vette and much better than i expected. The handling is unreal. The build quality is outstanding. One one complaint...the cupholders need to be on a gyro so i stop spilling my coffee when i fly around corners :-) Its also amazing how many of these tricked out Japanese cars want to take a run at me ..... nice try :-) This is one serious machine.... :-)



    nice choice with the 997 S, corvettes are nice too, but i would take a 997S over a corvette any day

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Quote:
    rjl said:
    One one complaint...the cupholders need to be on a gyro so i stop spilling my coffee when i fly around corners :-)


    Isn't that what PASM is for?

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Quote:
    JohnA said:
    Quote:
    rjl said:
    One one complaint...the cupholders need to be on a gyro so i stop spilling my coffee when i fly around corners :-)


    Isn't that what PASM is for?


    As I don't intend to drink coffee whilst doing high speed cornering and presumably making a phone call at the same time, is that a good enough reason not to specify PASM on my Boxster?

    Re: I don't like Porsche 911's.....

    Wow...

    these are my two kids in years 93/94

    great cars!!

     
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