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    997 s v NEW M3

    HELLO rennteamers!

    I have question for all of you out there. Beeing a porsche enthusiastat I am concerned about Porsche's reaction to the soon arriving M3 with a v8 engine producing almost 420 bhp

    Do you think that Porsche is going to upgrade the power of its engines or fit as a standard the X51 power kit to all her S models ? To remind you in the past the first 996 where at 300 bhp and the powerkit was 320 bhp wich came after as a standard....

    I would like to know your opininons on this topic as I am sure that many of us are curious of what is going to follow.

    i wouldnt like to order a car only to see it more powerfull after one month of its delivery to me.....


    Florent

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Porsche has a history of making small incremental upgrades in power (slower than its competition in the last several years) and there is no evidence of a reversal of that policy...

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    If you haven't noticed...porsche could care less about competitor HP due to their product structuring strategy

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Quote:
    FLORENT KAVADAS said:
    HELLO rennteamers!

    I have question for all of you out there. Beeing a porsche enthusiastat I am concerned about Porsche's reaction to the soon arriving M3 with a v8 engine producing almost 420 bhp

    Do you think that Porsche is going to upgrade the power of its engines or fit as a standard the X51 power kit to all her S models ? To remind you in the past the first 996 where at 300 bhp and the powerkit was 320 bhp wich came after as a standard....

    I would like to know your opininons on this topic as I am sure that many of us are curious of what is going to follow.

    i wouldnt like to order a car only to see it more powerfull after one month of its delivery to me.....


    Florent



    And, the newest addition to the "M" family is going to do some serious damage to the 997, S or not.

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Even with X51 Porsche will be less powerfull than M3. It depends on what you really want.

    I guess that M -division will do it's best and we all have to watch our asses. 911 and M3 definitely seems to polarize people and under some circumstances - slippery roads in Greece- M3 will be faster no matter if 911 has 355 or 381 bhp.

    I'm not trying to sound harsh but there is no reason to wait. There is no ending. After the X51, a face lift will be on it's way, after that second generation PASM and the story goes on.

    Propably M3 will be agressive, fun and a drifter's paradise. Also i really hope that M people will have the guts to put that carbon roof.

    But Porsche is always a Porsche

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Quote:
    zoltan said:
    Even with X51 Porsche will be less powerfull than M3. It depends on what you really want.

    I guess that M -division will do it's best and we all have to watch our asses. 911 and M3 definitely seems to polarize people and under some circumstances - slippery roads in Greece- M3 will be faster no matter if 911 has 355 or 381 bhp.

    I'm not trying to sound harsh but there is no reason to wait. There is no ending. After the X51, a face lift will be on it's way, after that second generation PASM and the story goes on.

    Propably M3 will be agressive, fun and a drifter's paradise. Also i really hope that M people will have the guts to put that carbon roof.

    But Porsche is always a Porsche



    Well said

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Quote:
    FLORENT KAVADAS said:
    HELLO rennteamers!

    I have question for all of you out there. Beeing a porsche enthusiastat I am concerned about Porsche's reaction to the soon arriving M3 with a v8 engine producing almost 420 bhp

    Do you think that Porsche is going to upgrade the power of its engines or fit as a standard the X51 power kit to all her S models ? To remind you in the past the first 996 where at 300 bhp and the powerkit was 320 bhp wich came after as a standard....

    I would like to know your opininons on this topic as I am sure that many of us are curious of what is going to follow.

    i wouldnt like to order a car only to see it more powerfull after one month of its delivery to me.....


    Florent



    I think its a no-brainer .

    If you want something practical and you have a family go for the new M3 , specially ! if its the only car your going to own , its going to be cracking value..The choices pend on ones fianacial criteria also , but if moneys not an issue go for a nice 4x4 for the family and a 997S for those fun trips ..

    In other words , you cant compare the two.

    Go figure , heres a breakdown ..

    1st choice:: Family with 1 car = M3
    2nd choice:: Family/Moneys okay = M3 + 4x4
    3rd choice:: Family/Business fruitful = M3 + 997S + 4x4...

    throt...

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Agree with throt.

    My own layout is: 997S + 4x4 + (wife drives) E500 4matic.
    So we get the fun car, the hauler, and the lux sedan.

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Agree with Throt too, and the M3 will be noticeably faster than the 997S with X51. I own both, so don't accuse me of knocking a car I don't own. I see it this way - people are buying Porsche for much the same reason people buy Ferraris. It's the overall ownership experience that counts - the engine sound, styling, prestige, etc. and not so much top performance.

    Porsche is clearly ignoring the performance demands in the HP department because they can. Not many people are buying car X over Porsche because the Porsche is a slower car. I wouldn't have bought my 997 Cab that is barely faster than my M3 if I was buying with performance and $ in mind as the only factors.

    THe next M3 will have the same or more HP than the GT3, and the V8 is widely rumored to be a lighter engine than the current I-6. I would expect a serious contender for the 997S, something that blows away the RS4, and has a back seat and trunk to rub it in. As a 997S owner I think it's a little sad that the competition can make a sedan that is faster than the flagship Porsche that I own.

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    I wonder if 911s buyers were asking themselves these questions 20 years ago. Didn't 911 loose a bit of their status?
    Now M3, RS4, a whole bunch of Mercs etc exceed the horsepower of a base carrera and even the uber 997TT is not any longer THE supercar.
    Do kids see 911s at THE car to have when turning 30/40 etc?
    That was me as a kid...ok, the 512Berlinetta Boxer was close
    All of this because they are stuck with one engine configuratio and layout...which we all love of course...and it would not change my idea on the topic...but it is a bit embarrassing at the end...

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Quote:
    yemenmocha said:
    Agree with Throt too, and the M3 will be noticeably faster than the 997S with X51. I own both, so don't accuse me of knocking a car I don't own. I see it this way - people are buying Porsche for much the same reason people buy Ferraris. It's the overall ownership experience that counts - the engine sound, styling, prestige, etc. and not so much top performance.

    Porsche is clearly ignoring the performance demands in the HP department because they can. Not many people are buying car X over Porsche because the Porsche is a slower car. I wouldn't have bought my 997 Cab that is barely faster than my M3 if I was buying with performance and $ in mind as the only factors.

    THe next M3 will have the same or more HP than the GT3, and the V8 is widely rumored to be a lighter engine than the current I-6. I would expect a serious contender for the 997S, something that blows away the RS4, and has a back seat and trunk to rub it in. As a 997S owner I think it's a little sad that the competition can make a sedan that is faster than the flagship Porsche that I own.



    Even a M5 or M6 owner cannot declare they are noticably faster than a 997S with X51. Throw in some curves and the M cars are history.

    Are you predicting that the new M3 will be even faster than M6? I seriously doubt it. I once drove a loaner 2006 M3 with SMG II and it is significantly slower than my 6 speed 997S with no X51.

    Why is "Faster" better?

    I bought all 3 of my 911's for a lot more than pure speed. It's the package of experiences that make it a great car to own and drive. Where the 911 wins is its ability on the track, combined with the visceral pleasure you get at even very low speeds on the road.

    The new or current M3 may be faster, but I would be surprised if it operates more pleasurably than the 911. Hats off to those who buy the new M3 and enjoy it but I'm curious to know if the M3 is such a great car why more 911 owners don't sell their cars and buy M3's - the journey always seems to be in the other direction...

    If I just wanted to be "faster" than the next guy I would have bought an Evo-prezza STi IX and nitro'd it or something like that and bought the biggest f*cking carbon fiber rear wing I could get my hands on. And then got my cheap thrills spanking M3's, SL55's, and 911's late at night out on the highway and claiming scalps on Fartcanracersforum.com.

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    The M3 maybe faster (I doubt it as you need more than just horsepower to move a car) and no doubt it will be a wonderful car. As the owner of both BMW and Porsche vehicles I have to say I love them both. However if the M3 is even faster it will still not do what Porsche does for me. Also no one has driven the new M3 how do you know it will be noticeable faster the X51 C2S. We just have to wait and see. Keep in mind Porsche gets every ounce out of their H.P. A 355 C2S can mess with most 400+ H.P.cars, that I guarantee you.

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    you will find that a great many 996 and now 997 owners have previously owned m3's .
    I'd venture to say you'd be hard pressed to find m3 owners that previously owned 911's.

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Well said

    Quote:
    peecarfan said:
    you will find that a great many 996 and now 997 owners have previously owned m3's .
    I'd venture to say you'd be hard pressed to find m3 owners that previously owned 911's.


    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Well, at least on the Isle of Man, in the wet, over the mountain course, on TOP GEAR an 997S without X51, but with PCCBs was 5 seconds faster than a 400 HP Aston Martin or 500 HP BMW M6. Porsche is unsurpassed at getting the most out of its power.

    Having said that, I'd hope they kick the power up, but it's unlikely, given previous history. I would love to see the unrealistic happen, and the base Carrera get the 3.6 power kit to 345 HP standard, and the Carrera S get the X51 standard. Neither one will happen.

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Quote:
    sdy284 said:
    If you haven't noticed...porsche could care less about competitor HP due to their product structuring strategy


    Bingo. I really think that Porcshe doesn't know or doesn't care that there's a horsepower war going on there in Deutschland..

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Quote:
    Jim_in_Iowa said:
    Well, at least on the Isle of Man, in the wet, over the mountain course, on TOP GEAR an 997S without X51, but with PCCBs was 5 seconds faster than a 400 HP Aston Martin or 500 HP BMW M6. Porsche is unsurpassed at getting the most out of its power.



    That's it right there. Let's not also forget that the 996 GT3 was basically the track equal of the F360 CS, despite a significant hp disadvantage.

    Lastly, I just don't get how one can compare a sedan that's rigged up to be extra sporty with a car that is a true sportscar from the wheels up. The M3 and the 911 are in a different category, while the M3 and RS4 are in the same one.

    This is a question I'll just never get. I'm after a real sportscar, so I would never even consider an M3.

    It has nothing to do with hp

    It really is about torque/lb weight of the car, and at what rpm the max is developed. The 997S is pretty good, the "Vette is awesome, and the M3 "Peaky" by comparison.

    Re: It has nothing to do with hp

    Thank you guys!
    I actually never consider owning an M3. I live breathe eat and drink porsche. My father used to own a 356 super 90 and then a 911 S.
    With this legacy how can I go in a different way ?
    I bought my wife an ML 350 to carry the kids arround so the fun shall all be...mine!
    She complains about me getting a 911 but deep inside of her .....I KNOW SHE IS GOING TO BE A PORSCHE MANIAC.!!!!!

    Thanks for your support


    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Quote:
    Jim_in_Iowa said:
    Well, at least on the Isle of Man, in the wet, over the mountain course, on TOP GEAR an 997S without X51, but with PCCBs was 5 seconds faster than a 400 HP Aston Martin or 500 HP BMW M6. Porsche is unsurpassed at getting the most out of its power.

    Having said that, I'd hope they kick the power up, but it's unlikely, given previous history. I would love to see the unrealistic happen, and the base Carrera get the 3.6 power kit to 345 HP standard, and the Carrera S get the X51 standard. Neither one will happen.




    This a very good video to see how capable is the 997 C2S compared to cars with highe HP figure and how well it handles.

    Here is the link


    Otherwise fellow rennteamers did mentioned all advantages, I have nothing to add. Except that there is no substitute!!!

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Hi all,

    In my eyes .. at the end of the day the M3 is just the top of the range housewife shopping cart.

    It looks pretty much identical to a 316.

    Yes, it has 4 exhausts, and a few extra details inside, but we can all tell that it is obviously the same basic car underneath. They have to add these 'extra' details to make people feel they are getting somethign a lot more special.

    And just look at the spy shots. Am I the only one to think it looks extremely dull? (as do all current 3 series)

    I don't consider it to be in the same league as my 997. And certainly wouldn't want one. 400bhp or not!

    ...Add

    Re: It has nothing to do with hp

    Regarding the power of a 911 compared to M3 or other contenders, wouldn't it be natural (!)for Porsche to finally go for a V8 engine in the 911, for the S version, for example.
    The entry level would remain with the flat 6 and the sportier one would use a V8, as Cayenne or coming Panamera will do? Otherwise, I guess it will become difficult for them to hold up with competition...

    Re: It has nothing to do with hp

    I think the motor used in the current GT3 is already the top of the line they can bring out from the boxer V6 na.
    So i guess in future the normal 911 will adapt this motor, and the gt3 will start the v8 series. I also think that the next turbo will get a v8TT.

    Re: It has nothing to do with hp

    Interesting...

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    Quote:
    sdy284 said:
    If you haven't noticed...porsche could care less about competitor HP due to their product structuring strategy


    Bingo. I really think that Porcshe doesn't know or doesn't care that there's a horsepower war going on there in Deutschland..



    Bravo, I could have not said it any better. Porsche engineers are not stupid and they can also jack up the H.P. on their cars to stay with the competition. But Porsches do well as they as there is no competition. There was a time that Porsche claimed that the back of their cars looked better than their fronts, why you ask? Because the back of the cars is what the competition mostly sees

    No V8!

    I'm just tired of all this "Oh woe is me! We need a bigger engine" crap. The simple answer is that's the last thing a 911 needs.

    I guess some of you have not read the previous discussions on this, but a V8 in a 911 would be a very bad move due to higher center of gravity and weight that's even further behind the rear axle line than for the equivalent flat-6.

    Porsche can design a brand new flat-6 that's considerably lighter and will produce significantly higher output than the current model. If they can't maybe Honda can help them...

    They also need to make the car significantly lighter, using more alloy and carbon fiber components. If they're not capable maybe they should hire Gordon Murray who designed the McLaren F1 roadcar.

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Quote:
    Targa Tim said:
    Quote:
    yemenmocha said:
    Agree with Throt too, and the M3 will be noticeably faster than the 997S with X51. I own both, so don't accuse me of knocking a car I don't own. I see it this way - people are buying Porsche for much the same reason people buy Ferraris. It's the overall ownership experience that counts - the engine sound, styling, prestige, etc. and not so much top performance.

    Porsche is clearly ignoring the performance demands in the HP department because they can. Not many people are buying car X over Porsche because the Porsche is a slower car. I wouldn't have bought my 997 Cab that is barely faster than my M3 if I was buying with performance and $ in mind as the only factors.

    THe next M3 will have the same or more HP than the GT3, and the V8 is widely rumored to be a lighter engine than the current I-6. I would expect a serious contender for the 997S, something that blows away the RS4, and has a back seat and trunk to rub it in. As a 997S owner I think it's a little sad that the competition can make a sedan that is faster than the flagship Porsche that I own.



    Even a M5 or M6 owner cannot declare they are noticably faster than a 997S with X51. Throw in some curves and the M cars are history.

    Are you predicting that the new M3 will be even faster than M6? I seriously doubt it. I once drove a loaner 2006 M3 with SMG II and it is significantly slower than my 6 speed 997S with no X51.



    An E46 M3 is not that much slower than a 997S w/o X51. Yes, the new M3 will, most likely, be a little FASTER than the curent M6. And, lastly, I predict that the new M3 will give a 997S a run at any track. Unfortunate, but true.
    I don't like it either.

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Now days nothing is that much slower than anything. Most Japanese cars are now running in the 5's (0-60). We are in an era where high performance cars are produced by all car manufacturers. So it's all about inviduals taste and their bond with their vehicles. No matter what you drive there is always someone out there that's faster than you, so where does this ego trip stop?? We all have the ego and we all want to drive the fastest and the best out there.

    Re: 997 s v NEW M3

    Gotta tell ya. I got about another year until I trade in my 04M3 for a new one.

    Since I use the cars (997S and M3 for rural highway driving) I think the 997S is going to be left in the garage alot more when I get the new m3. I'm not doing hairpin corners, I'm merely passing slower cars on curved two lane highways.

    In a year or so later I'll get the TT and trade in the 997S, then we'll just relegate the new M3 to airport runs.

    When you think about it, HP AND handling is what makes a car on wussy (drive 55) US roads worthwhile. Porsche has no monopoly there. Though I prefer Porsche, I'll take whichever German Made/engineereed car that has more HP/TQ. Hear THAT Porsche?

     
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