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    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Just ran across this in Wikipedia:

    Also in 2013, the Model S was the top selling car in the full-size luxury sedan category in the U.S., ahead of the Mercedes-Benz S-Class(13,303), the top selling car in the category in 2012, and also surpassing the BMW 7 Series (10,932), Lexus LS (10,727), Audi A8 (6,300) and Porsche Panamera (5,421).[188] The Model S ranked as the world's second best selling plug-in electric vehicle after the Nissan Leaf in 2014,[171] and it was the top selling plug-in electric car in the U.S. for the first half of 2015, with about 11,900 units delivered.[175]

    Could partly explain Mission E announcement.  

    Another quote from same piece which I liked:

    General Motors' then-Vice Chairman Robert Lutz said in 2007 that the Tesla Roadster inspired him to push GM to develop the Chevrolet Volt, a plug-in hybrid sedan.[138] In an August 2009 edition of The New Yorker, Lutz was quoted as saying, "All the geniuses here at General Motors kept saying lithium-ion technology is 10 years away, and Toyota agreed with us—and boom, along comes Tesla. So I said, 'How come some tiny little California startup, run by guys who know nothing about the car business, can do this, and we can't?' That was the crowbar that helped break up the log jam."[139]

    Think it's possible the Mission E and Apple announcements will be viewed in future as "tipping points" in the electric car saga.  Both announcements confer respectability for the segment.  Excluding the battery component, electric cars are so much simpler than ICE cars- essentially no transmissions, no oil changes, no engine cooling systems, no exhausts/catalytic converters, etc.  The time for an Apple to develop an E car much shorter than a ICE car.

    Was just reading a mega yacht magazine that interviewed a prominent yacht designer.  Standard interview with the usual what are your favorite things.  For cars it was Tesla - he and his family have 4 S models and a picture of his red Tesla was there along with his latest 250 foot yacht.

    In U.S. the time for extensive availability of charging stations could be much shorter than most would predict.  Already seeing stations at Public grocery stores.  Will any high end shopping centers in U.S. be built in future without a prominent row of charging stations occupying prime parking spaces? 

    There are some good long and short investment opportunities here with the possibility of major industry upheavals.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Conrad2:

    ... General Motors' then-Vice Chairman Robert Lutz said in 2007 that the Tesla Roadster inspired him to push GM to develop the Chevrolet Volt, a plug-in hybrid sedan.[138] In an August 2009 edition of The New Yorker, Lutz was quoted as saying, "All the geniuses here at General Motors kept saying lithium-ion technology is 10 years away, and Toyota agreed with us—and boom, along comes Tesla. So I said, 'How come some tiny little California startup, run by guys who know nothing about the car business, can do this, and we can't?' That was the crowbar that helped break up the log jam." ...

    Apparently, he's changed his tune. Now he thinks a car is a "gigantic money pit" for Apple, that no one has made money from electric cars, and that PC guys are not going to just walk in and figure it out.

    -- Former GM Vice Chairman: Apple Car a ‘Gigantic Money Pit’


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Mithras:

    Think of what you really do for most of your driving. Obviously it will be different for everyone but the majority of my driving, day-in day-out is a drive from my house in a dense urban location to my office 7km away. I drive in with my wife and it's one of the few times we're alone and able to be normal adults without kids. In the morning it takes 7-15 minutes in the evening in rush hour it can be almost 45 minutes if it's really bad but usually 25 minutes. We also go to our place in the country, which is 230km away, probably 2 times a month. More than half of that trip has 80km speed limits...

    So I need a car that has really good zip in the morning to get infront of people at lights or to get into the right lane, being able to get a better parking spot near the elevator because of the type of car is a bonus. I need something that is quiet and easy which won't further stress my nerves in the evening when my 8 minute commute is taking more than 4 times that amount and I need something that will go 230km with two kids in the car (hopefully sleeping) and all the crap my wife packs every week-end to go to a house where we have closets of clothes and food in the freezer... Being able to blast down an on-ramp without my wife giving me a dirty look for driving so fast with the kids in the car is a bonus. 

    I think a Tesla can do all of those things as least as well as most other cars. 


    --

     

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

     

    Well put, but there is no emotion to owning it which is what drives most on this forum. What you are really saying is that you need an FF Smiley


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    apias:
    Conrad2:

    ... General Motors' then-Vice Chairman Robert Lutz said in 2007 that the Tesla Roadster inspired him to push GM to develop the Chevrolet Volt, a plug-in hybrid sedan.[138] In an August 2009 edition of The New Yorker, Lutz was quoted as saying, "All the geniuses here at General Motors kept saying lithium-ion technology is 10 years away, and Toyota agreed with us—and boom, along comes Tesla. So I said, 'How come some tiny little California startup, run by guys who know nothing about the car business, can do this, and we can't?' That was the crowbar that helped break up the log jam." ...

    Apparently, he's changed his tune. Now he thinks a car is a "gigantic money pit" for Apple, that no one has made money from electric cars, and that PC guys are not going to just walk in and figure it out.

    -- Former GM Vice Chairman: Apple Car a ‘Gigantic Money Pit’

    In view of the fact that Musk himself has since acknowledged that Tesla will not be profitable before 2019 and GM's objective back in 2009 would surely have been to build and sell cars profitably, not just to build them, this makes perfect sense:  "All the geniuses at GM" were in fact right back then, and Bob Lutz has had to change his tune in the meantime because he has had to recognise this fact. 


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    fritz


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Ha, ha, well, that could be. I suppose he should be applauded for admitting he was wrong.

    No one will be more impressed and surprised than I will if a) Apple "releases" an Apple Car in 2019-20 and b) it doesn't end up being a project they wished they had never gotten involved in. I personally think the idea of Apple making a car, if that is actually what they are doing, is completely crazy, and I have no idea why they would want to get involved in the car business, even if they are successful.

    On the other hand, here's John Gruber's take on an Apple Car:

    Apple Car Sport: $25,000.

    Apple Car: $40-60,000.

    Apple Car Edition: $250,000.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    apias:
    Conrad2:

    ... General Motors' then-Vice Chairman Robert Lutz said in 2007 that the Tesla Roadster inspired him to push GM to develop the Chevrolet Volt, a plug-in hybrid sedan.[138] In an August 2009 edition of The New Yorker, Lutz was quoted as saying, "All the geniuses here at General Motors kept saying lithium-ion technology is 10 years away, and Toyota agreed with us—and boom, along comes Tesla. So I said, 'How come some tiny little California startup, run by guys who know nothing about the car business, can do this, and we can't?' That was the crowbar that helped break up the log jam." ...

    Apparently, he's changed his tune. Now he thinks a car is a "gigantic money pit" for Apple, that no one has made money from electric cars, and that PC guys are not going to just walk in and figure it out.

    -- Former GM Vice Chairman: Apple Car a ‘Gigantic Money Pit’

    Lutz does love the role of the iconoclast.  Wait a few years and he may well be back to his original position.  


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Conrad2:
    apias:
    Conrad2:

    ... General Motors' then-Vice Chairman Robert Lutz said in 2007 that the Tesla Roadster inspired him to push GM to develop the Chevrolet Volt, a plug-in hybrid sedan.[138] In an August 2009 edition of The New Yorker, Lutz was quoted as saying, "All the geniuses here at General Motors kept saying lithium-ion technology is 10 years away, and Toyota agreed with us—and boom, along comes Tesla. So I said, 'How come some tiny little California startup, run by guys who know nothing about the car business, can do this, and we can't?' That was the crowbar that helped break up the log jam." ...

    Apparently, he's changed his tune. Now he thinks a car is a "gigantic money pit" for Apple, that no one has made money from electric cars, and that PC guys are not going to just walk in and figure it out.

    -- Former GM Vice Chairman: Apple Car a ‘Gigantic Money Pit’

    Lutz does love the role of the iconoclast.  Wait a few years and he may well be back to his original position.  

    Well, in a few years time EV technology and production costs might well have got to the stage where his original position would finally become valid, justifying yet another change of view.
    Flip-flops don't have to always have to come in pairs.  Smiley

    I need to copyright that last saying. I just made it up. Smiley

     


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    fritz


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    crayphile:
    Mithras:

    Think of what you really do for most of your driving. Obviously it will be different for everyone but the majority of my driving, day-in day-out is a drive from my house in a dense urban location to my office 7km away. I drive in with my wife and it's one of the few times we're alone and able to be normal adults without kids. In the morning it takes 7-15 minutes in the evening in rush hour it can be almost 45 minutes if it's really bad but usually 25 minutes. We also go to our place in the country, which is 230km away, probably 2 times a month. More than half of that trip has 80km speed limits...

    So I need a car that has really good zip in the morning to get infront of people at lights or to get into the right lane, being able to get a better parking spot near the elevator because of the type of car is a bonus. I need something that is quiet and easy which won't further stress my nerves in the evening when my 8 minute commute is taking more than 4 times that amount and I need something that will go 230km with two kids in the car (hopefully sleeping) and all the crap my wife packs every week-end to go to a house where we have closets of clothes and food in the freezer... Being able to blast down an on-ramp without my wife giving me a dirty look for driving so fast with the kids in the car is a bonus. 

    I think a Tesla can do all of those things as least as well as most other cars. 


    --

     

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

     

    Well put, but there is no emotion to owning it which is what drives most on this forum. What you are really saying is that you need an FF Smiley

    Or a 612Smiley I love emotional cars, I own one. If I had more than one secure parking space at my home I would own more than one but that's what happens when you live in a really dense urban area... That said, I understand the need for a discrete, quiet, cosseting car. Traffic stresses me much too much for that.

    What I'm really saying is I need to move houses to get more parking, then get a 4 seater Ferrari. And a Bentley to commute in. And a Singer. And a GT3RS. And a California for my wife. Smiley 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    apias:

    Ha, ha, well, that could be. I suppose he should be applauded for admitting he was wrong.

    No one will be more impressed and surprised than I will if a) Apple "releases" an Apple Car in 2019-20 and b) it doesn't end up being a project they wished they had never gotten involved in. I personally think the idea of Apple making a car, if that is actually what they are doing, is completely crazy, and I have no idea why they would want to get involved in the car business, even if they are successful.

    On the other hand, here's John Gruber's take on an Apple Car:

    Apple Car Sport: $25,000.

    Apple Car: $40-60,000.

    Apple Car Edition: $250,000.

    I think its easy to see why they are interested: 

    i) a very large market and they are approaching limits to growth in their current segments, ii) its not an obvious Hail Mary - future cars may be much simpler, with easier to deal with maintenance issues.  I poked around a local Tesla service center and the most of their work seemed to be dealing with tire issues (21 inch rims on a 4900 lb car not a good idea if potholes are near by).  If there is a motor problem, they just pop in a new one.  Battery problem - takes 10 minutes or so and a new one is popped in.  Software problem - downloads while car is in garage overnight  - no 2 hours at a service center grinding through a software update procedure.  Unlikely in future people are going to have attachments to the particular electric motor in their cars - no more long discussions about flat sixes, V8's, V12's or lamenting about the advent of turbo charging.

    Its going to be about software functionality and the looks/style of the car body and the overall brand image and marketing approach of the company.  Apple could do a suburb job in these areas - its part of their DNA.  The majority of the core mechanical components will be commodities with no more personality than a circuit breaker.  GM's of the world may well become faceless providers of parts and assembly for them, just like the big telecoms are darn near faceless providers to the Googles of this world.  He who owns the customer wins in the end.  GM et al may well not have a chance given the profound cultural changes that may be required to compete in the future, they just don't know it yet.  Kodak was fully aware of the threat of the digital camera and poured R&D resources into the area and was a leader in many aspects of the digital technology, but it didn't matter, there was nothing they could do to change the final result.

    Survey after survey, show people dislike the buying experience at auto dealers.  They are paying a 10% premium to have someone piss them off and half the time borderline lie to them.  Tesla has tried to emulate an Apple Store experience and they aren't doing too bad at it.  

    Interest in cars among young buyers has been dropping for some time.  Apple has a much better chance of getting them excited than a GM type of company.

    Lack of emotion from no sound is certainly true.  I also get an emotional kick out of 1+ G acceleration which practically I can experience much more often in my Tesla than my 12C.  If I really need a V8 wail then I will punch it up on the sound system just like BMW does today.  Fanboys will be posting their favorite sound tracks and you will be able to buy a variety of sound tracks just like people today do for their ring tones.  Blasphemy you say?  Well similar things were said by the audiophiles when the ipod came out with its highly compressed sound.  No way they said, but Jobs said BS - I know better - and he did.  HI-Fi industry in the complete dumps with mainly just die hard hobbyist types obsessing over the roll off at 20KHz (sound familiar?)

    No one can predict the time line for shifts like these.  Some number will make their fortunes by appearing to have known the timeline, but that's only because someone will be betting on every scenario - few ever repeat because it was merely chance to begin with.

    Anyway, this is the start of game over for ICE cars, may take 20 years, may take 50 years, who knows, but it is going tp be game over at some point long before oil runs out.  Really clever people will time the shorting of oil companies just right, no doubt.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Anyone who once owned a Mclaren F1 is a  car guy a.k.a Elon Musk...


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Electric car mostly is a North American, or Europe inner city car. It is not meant to be a Autobahn burner. But then again not many cars are.

    Model S's performance envelope is right on for 99% of the world population, from zero to about 120mph. Too bad the interior and build quality is still not quite up there. But then again if Tesla spend money on those, the car will be that much more expensive.

    Elon is a car guy, he knows it and he simply optimized his car for 99% of the population's usage pattern. Just like how Porsche had identified that the top end speed from 265km/hr up to whatever is rarely used and optimized the 918 that way. 

    A Konesig (I don't care how it is suppose to spell), is not optimized from zero up, it's more like from 100mph and up, more for bragging right to give street credit to his company. 

    A car can never be perfect from zero to top speed, there will always be trade offs in performance somewhere. 

    It will be very interesting to see how Porsche planned to optimized the Model E. (If it will ever get the green light after the latest VW mess)


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    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    crayphile:
    Mithras:

    Think of what you really do for most of your driving. Obviously it will be different for everyone but the majority of my driving, day-in day-out is a drive from my house in a dense urban location to my office 7km away. I drive in with my wife and it's one of the few times we're alone and able to be normal adults without kids. In the morning it takes 7-15 minutes in the evening in rush hour it can be almost 45 minutes if it's really bad but usually 25 minutes. We also go to our place in the country, which is 230km away, probably 2 times a month. More than half of that trip has 80km speed limits...

    So I need a car that has really good zip in the morning to get infront of people at lights or to get into the right lane, being able to get a better parking spot near the elevator because of the type of car is a bonus. I need something that is quiet and easy which won't further stress my nerves in the evening when my 8 minute commute is taking more than 4 times that amount and I need something that will go 230km with two kids in the car (hopefully sleeping) and all the crap my wife packs every week-end to go to a house where we have closets of clothes and food in the freezer... Being able to blast down an on-ramp without my wife giving me a dirty look for driving so fast with the kids in the car is a bonus. 

    I think a Tesla can do all of those things as least as well as most other cars. 


    --

     

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

     

    Well put, but there is no emotion to owning it which is what drives most on this forum. What you are really saying is that you need an FF Smiley

    Yesterday on my daily commute , 20 minutes , I counted 3 Teslas and one Cayenne . 

    I have many people who tell me their next car is a Tesla . Over here they are  the car to have at the moment .


    --

     997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery ...soon !


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    And used Tesla start to trickle in at pretty good discounts to a new one...


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Whoopsy:

    Electric car mostly is a North American, or Europe inner city car. It is not meant to be a Autobahn burner. But then again not many cars are.

    Model S's performance envelope is right on for 99% of the world population, from zero to about 120mph. Too bad the interior and build quality is still not quite up there. But then again if Tesla spend money on those, the car will be that much more expensive.

    Elon is a car guy, he knows it and he simply optimized his car for 99% of the population's usage pattern. Just like how Porsche had identified that the top end speed from 265km/hr up to whatever is rarely used and optimized the 918 that way. 

    A Konesig (I don't care how it is suppose to spell), is not optimized from zero up, it's more like from 100mph and up, more for bragging right to give street credit to his company. 

    A car can never be perfect from zero to top speed, there will always be trade offs in performance somewhere. 

    It will be very interesting to see how Porsche planned to optimized the Model E. (If it will ever get the green light after the latest VW mess)

    Let's hope Porsche R&D funds are not diverted to address VW's problems. Porsche has some holes in the brand portfolio that need to be addressed. 


    --

    2014 Porsche 991 C4S Black with Sports Design Package,  2013 Porsche Cayenne Dark Blue Metallic, New York


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    The VW Diesel debacle will lead to a quick demise of this engine type worldwide and an even faster rise of the Hybrid/Electric cars. The German governement will push it more than ever before after this scandal. As a result German car producers will go after Tesla much more agressively in the next years than they would have otherwise... and Germany will probably be on top of this technology very soon... (as they have mostly been in automotive)

     


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    turbolite


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    turbolite:

    The VW Diesel debacle will lead to a quick demise of this engine type worldwide and an even faster rise of the Hybrid/Electric cars. The German governement will push it more than ever before after this scandal. As a result German car producers will go after Tesla much more agressively in the next years than they would have otherwise... and Germany will probably be on top of this technology very soon... (as they have mostly been in automotive)

    Maybe. Right now, I rather think that the Diesel car market will take a hit and even worse will be the market for used Diesel cars. I also can imagine that the government may actually raise taxes for Diesel fuel and Diesel cars, just to make a point, resulting in a much higher demand for gasoline operated cars.

    Maybe time to buy a Diesel now at a big discount. Smiley Smiley

    Joking aside, Diesel is, has and always be hazardous to the health. Not sure how Diesel cars took off so much but the main reason may be the fact that they consume less (vs. gasoline operated cars) and Diesel costs also less (in Germany for example, maybe not in all countries). This will surely change (hopefully).


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    In EU it won't happened.

    What is % of gasoline 5 series and E-class sales in Germany for example? 

    Below 15%. 

    Diesel is almost 70% of sales in EU.

    Only small class cars like Polo or Punto are selling very good with gasoline engines.

    Sportscars and small cars are dominating gasoline engine car sales in EU.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    KresoF1:

    In EU it won't happened.

    What is % of gasoline 5 series and E-class sales in Germany for example? 

    Below 15%. 

    Diesel is almost 70% of sales in EU.

    Only small class cars like Polo or Punto are selling very good with gasoline engines.

    Sportscars and small cars are dominating gasoline engine car sales in EU.

    Thats exactly the problem. I think there will be a change in mentality once people realize how poisonous Diesel cars are. Also, I can imagine that used car prices will drop a lot, so people won't want to buy a Diesel again.

    Just theory of course...in the end, if people are looking at money only, they will stick with Diesel cars I'm afraid.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    I also do not found diesel too much. Although,  I have to admit that my family car/daily driver is power diesel caravan.

    Just...German car industry invested a lot into diesel engine development.  Diesel as a fuel is cheaper in most EU then gasoline. 

    And there is fuel consumption after all. With my family car you can drive from Hambourg to Firenza with single tank of fuel. Can you do that with eco friendly Tesla? Of course not.

    Electrical cars are nice for city commuting and short trips. More then that? No, with current state of development.  I tried e-Golf VII and like it very much for city driving. But, only for city driving.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    doesn't Euro 6 for Diesel mean that the NOx etc is all removed (use of Urea etc)?


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    RC:
    KresoF1:

    In EU it won't happened.

    What is % of gasoline 5 series and E-class sales in Germany for example? 

    Below 15%. 

    Diesel is almost 70% of sales in EU.

    Only small class cars like Polo or Punto are selling very good with gasoline engines.

    Sportscars and small cars are dominating gasoline engine car sales in EU.

    Thats exactly the problem. I think there will be a change in mentality once people realize how poisonous Diesel cars are. Also, I can imagine that used car prices will drop a lot, so people won't want to buy a Diesel again.

    Just theory of course...in the end, if people are looking at money only, they will stick with Diesel cars I'm afraid.

    By one of life's ironic little coincidences, the BBC is currently running a series of TV programmes about the diesel engine, and I happened to see an episode for the first time last night. Very interesting, I'll have to try to get to see some of the other episodes on catch-up TV. 
    The programmes were naturally made well before the current scandal became known, but one thing that it brought across was that there is no way that we are going to do away with diesel engines in the medium-term future, as our entire way of life depends on them, from small to large industrial engines through farm tractors, delivery trucks, locomotives, and up to super-tankers and container ships with engines as big as a one-family home. 
    Taking this into account and adding the visible fumes blowing out from the vertical exhaust stacks of trucks you'll see rolling on any American freeway, eliminating the use of diesel engines fitted with operational emissions-control equipment from private cars will not change the overall exhaust gas emissions picture by much. 


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    fritz


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Rennteamers, I would greatly appreciate your help.  I write for a Porsche Club of America monthly magazine, and have been asked to write an article about the Mission E concept.  I attended the Frankfurt press conference and have done general research, as well as having read this thread.  But i would appreciate any views about the following specific questions:

    1.  Will the VW diesel debacle, and Porsche management changes, result in fewer research/development dollars, or delay, or even shelving, of the Mission E?

    2.  If Porsche goes forward with development and production, what market and infrastructure challenges will it face (recharging stations, Tesla competition, etc.)?

    3.  Overall, do you think this is a worthwhile direction for Porsche?

    I have a deadline of October 11, so I would appreciate your prompt replies.  Thank you!


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Wonderbar:

    Rennteamers, I would greatly appreciate your help.  I write for a Porsche Club of America monthly magazine, and have been asked to write an article about the Mission E concept.  I attended the Frankfurt press conference and have done general research, as well as having read this thread.  But i would appreciate any views about the following specific questions:

    1.  Will the VW diesel debacle, and Porsche management changes, result in fewer research/development dollars, or delay, or even shelving, of the Mission E?

    2.  If Porsche goes forward with development and production, what market and infrastructure challenges will it face (recharging stations, Tesla competition, etc.)?

    3.  Overall, do you think this is a worthwhile direction for Porsche?

    I have a deadline of October 11, so I would appreciate your prompt replies.  Thank you!

    1. I suspect that the MissionE project is one which will be least likely to be delayed or shelved due to the diesel engine fiasco, both for PR "rehabilitation" reasons and to more rapidly advance the VW group's know-how in this field so that it can better react to any long-term fallout for diesel engine use on the market. 

    2. Isn't the 400 Volt charging infrastructure the "default" industry standard to be shared with other brands of e-mobile anyway? 800 Volt technology is Porsche's fast-charge experiment requiring special equipment, but it's likely other manufacturers would jump on that bandwagon if it is viable anyway. 

    3. For reasons indicated under 1., I suspect that both Porsche and VW Group managements would see it as a worthwhile direction, and that's what counts.  


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    fritz


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    -With the diesel debacle, the need to continue research on alternate 'fuel' is more pressing than ever

    -Porsche is not without experience on electric system, not purely, but they had gained great knowledge on the electric side of hybrids, the 919 racing program, the 918, Cayenne/Panamera hybrids are all contributors.

    -As we have discussed here, Porsche rarely do concept cars, and those that made it to the showfloor almost always made it to the production line too, without much alterations I might add. Same for numbers, Porsche almost always meet or exceed whatever numbers they throw out.

    -The 800V system might be iffy, but I suspect the shipping Mission E will have a dual mode 400V/800V system to provide compatibility. 


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    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    1. VW need to be seen as cleaning themselves up so no downside to push for investing in EVs. Porsche know how is critical to this.

    2. They should put free charging into their dealers (one is only a few miles from me indecision) and work to share the Tesla network.

    3. Tesla is taking big market share from Porsche for their high end Panamera and Cayenne models so they have no choice.


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    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Thanks guys for taking the time to answer so specifically and helpfully.  My inclination would have been that the Mission E project would have been pushed back or shelved, so your thoughts are very informative…..


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    It is logical to think that way, as Mission E is a expensive research, but if they don't do it they will fall behind in alternative propulsion and that would affect their product plans for a decade if not more.

    I have to imagine further development of NA engines might be the program getting the cut. It is expensive to squeeze the last drop out of NA engines.

     


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    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Wonderbar:

    Rennteamers, I would greatly appreciate your help.  I write for a Porsche Club of America monthly magazine, and have been asked to write an article about the Mission E concept.  I attended the Frankfurt press conference and have done general research, as well as having read this thread.  But i would appreciate any views about the following specific questions:

    1.  Will the VW diesel debacle, and Porsche management changes, result in fewer research/development dollars, or delay, or even shelving, of the Mission E?

    I suspect that "popular" (in the eye of the public) projects like the Mission E will get all the funding needed.

    2.  If Porsche goes forward with development and production, what market and infrastructure challenges will it face (recharging stations, Tesla competition, etc.)?

    Since Porsche kind of has the habit to "force" certain marketing elements like CI upon dealers (especially in countries outside the US), I can imagine some huge challenges of all sorts.

    3.  Overall, do you think this is a worthwhile direction for Porsche?

    Yes and no. I would have loved to see more of an electric sportscar in this segment, Tesla has the S and the X but do they have a real sportscar which can do the Nordschleife in under 7:30 minutes? The older Tesla Roadster was more of a joke in my opinion, a nice piece of technology but not really a replacement for a real sports car.

    I have a deadline of October 11, so I would appreciate your prompt replies.  Thank you!

    Good luck, not sure I helped in any way. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Whoopsy:

    It is logical to think that way, as Mission E is a expensive research, but if they don't do it they will fall behind in alternative propulsion and that would affect their product plans for a decade if not more.

    I have to imagine further development of NA engines might be the program getting the cut. It is expensive to squeeze the last drop out of NA engines.

     

    Let's hope they don't touch the NA engine development.  


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Isn't the Mission E Mueller's baby - so I would imagine e would push the E and all the benefits it brings tech wise across the rest of VW


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


     
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