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    Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Can anybody tell me why Alonso has been punished?

    As far as I saw in TV, Massa was really far from him....with this criteria, any pilot going out of boxes should be penalized!

    I haven't seen the images again, and, of course my impressions can be wrong, but this whole story beguins to "smell" ridiculous!

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Its very crazy, I'm really upset by it. Supposedly Pat Symonds showed the FIA some telemetry that proved Alonso did not slow down Massa. The FIA seem to really want Schumacher to win the title

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    I could not say it more clear............Fortunately I'm not the only one with such "visions"...Thanks 911Fan...

    If the calification procedure (a real mess) does not work, or can lead to this situations, they would better go to older sistems (much easier and sportive)..........

    I feel F1 is going to a competition outside the trak, in the pits, the offices, and who knows where....(no evolution of motors, constant nonesense limitations, non sense circuits, etc.)

    It's a real pitty.......fortunately, in motorbykes things are still not so unspoiled...but, sadly for me, cars are my passion..........

    Thanks again Mr. Ecclestone

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Its a big shame, but its nothing new.. Ferrari is always favorized from FIA and they always plays dirt tactics.

    Remember 1997, when Villeneuve had in Suzuka 9 points lead and pole position. They disqualified him on race because he drove too fast in yellow flag aria in warm up.

    In 1999 Ferrari had bigger side pods than they should have, but they didnt lost their position.

    In 2003 Montoya and Raikkonen was closing gap to Schumacher in championship, but FIA had meeting in Maranello a few races before end with Ferrari and they found together than Michellin tyres are illegal (although they were legal)

    This year FIA suddenly ban Renault`s mass damper (although it was legal for one year, and this years car is built on that system). But it isnt enough, Schumacher still cant beat Alonso after all, so FIA must find something new to put Schumacher in front. Yesterday`s decision is one of that. Two of three race stewards are Italians, so this penalty is big bullshit and helping Schumacher to win.

    And here is one of prooves that Massa didnt lost 3 tenth in last sector (look 3rd sector times):



    Im a big F1 fans for many years, I was every year at least on one race, I even can get "paddock ticket," at home I have many autographs from drivers I get... but after this unfair playing, formula 1 disgusting me... I will start watching Nascar, DTM, ChampCar... those series are much more interesting for watching... even GP2 series are much more exciting for watching than F1.

    Where are those times...:
    video - Gilles Villeneuve VS. Rene Arnoux:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7680916065555117465&q=Villeneuve

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    nberry, did you have anything to do with this penalty?!

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Doesnt really matter now. Feminando Aloooooser's car broke down, so this debate is purely academic. However, I would like to add, that any measurement the FIA could take into use to make Feminando lose or even retire from F1 is welcomed by me

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Here is some backround on Charlie Whiting's (FIA) recent rulings that have turned F1 into A FRAUD.

    Hungarian GP:
    Schuamcher was being followed by another driver who was going faster and trying to overtake him, while the other driver was trying to out brake him, Schumacher skips the chicane twice. When you do that you are supposed to give up your position since skipping the a chicane straight is not a fair way to avoid an overtake (another example is the Monaco chicane). Schumacher does not get penalised for this and on the pilots meeting,
    - De La Rosa confused asks Charlie Whiting "You did not penalise Schumacher for skipping the chicane anfd not giving up the position, is it legal now to skip the chicanes and not give up the position?"
    - Charlie Whitting says "Yes, you can do that".
    - De La Rosa says even more confused now since this means that all drivers can do this now "How many times can we do this now?"
    - Charly Whiting says " Well.... not too many"


    Turkey GP:
    Regulations say that when defending a position you can only make one change of direction to defend it, you cannot weave back and forth from side to side due to the danger this implies in racing. Schummacher on the start of the Turkey GP makes THREE direction changes to defend against Alonso. CHarlie Whiting does NOT penalise him again.
    - Afterwards Alonso/Renault asks Charly, "why was he not penalised?"
    - Charlie denies Schumacher's maneuver's were ilegal.
    - Alonso/Rebnault says that he did three direction changes, and shows him the video of the start
    - Charlie after being SHOWN the video of the start asy, you are right, I will have to go and have a TALK with Schumacher about that. NO PENALTY, schumacher gets a "talk".
    If Kimi would have done that, would he gotten away with it? I don't think so.


    Italian GP:
    - Alonso blows a tire ond the end of the last stint of clasifying and after changing the tires, needs to get past the start before the time end in order to get a chance at a qualifying lap. Massa who already has a 3rd top time in the grip, complains that Alonso blocked him in qualifying, Massa, who unlike Alosn, is not reinging world champion, and is not the championship leader. Telemetry shows Massa was not blocked and Alosn has done nothing intentional. In the last GP, De La Rosa failed to get a good qualifying time becuase he encountered traffic in the last laps, after the race De La Rosa stated that that is normal racing, no harm was done.
    But this is the best part, it was not Ferrari who asked for the penalty, Massa just complained, it was Charlie Whiting once again who out of his own iniciative decides to give that penalty to Alonso.

    I can't figure out how a true sportman can like winning and retiring this way... what a fraud. What will we see in the next three races in order to set it up for Schumacher to have no competition so he can be "handed" the championship?
    I just want to see that Charly Whiting (FIA) & Ferrari's efforts are useless...


    Alosno has said after Saturday, "I will never think of F1 as a "sport" again". No kidding.

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    The sport is truly corrupt.

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Interesting comments by Briatore:

    "Briatore: F1 worse than Italian football "

    "It is what happened before the race which is strange. This is a world championship which has already been decided at the table.

    "We have understood how things go - it has all been decided...they have decided to give the world championship to Schumacher and that is what will be," he said on Italy's RAI television.

    "Compared to what is happening in Formula One, 'calciopoli' just makes me smile," added Briatore, referring to the football scandal which resulted in leading club Juventus, owned like Ferrari by the Fiat group, being demoted to the second division as punishment."

    ___________________________________

    And about this race.. Alonso pushed on limit all race, and because Monza is very hard for engine, engine exploded.. So stewards / FIA / Ferrari has made sure that Schumacher has everything open now.

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    i'm very curious what can you say about kubica..
    his third race, and third place

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Quote:
    paul86 said:
    i'm very curious what can you say about kubica..
    his third race, and third place



    I'm afraid his fantatstic race was oversahdowed by the scandals and not-so-hidden agendas in F1
    Kubica is showing great talent and is looking to be a future top driver, lets not forget this was only his 3rd race. He has shown some surprisiong driving already in the previous races and now a podium finish I hope he gets a seat in on eof the three top teams soon to fully exploit his potential.

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    BTW, there is a rumor that Michelins and others have presented Charly Whiting a series of photographs that show the Bridgestone guys giving the tires a chemical treatment before Saturday Qualifying, this is ilegal so if this turns out to be true, all hell is going to break loose...

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    paul86 said:
    i'm very curious what can you say about kubica..
    his third race, and third place



    I'm afraid his fantatstic race was oversahdowed by the scandals and not-so-hidden agendas in F1
    Kubica is showing great talent and is looking to be a future top driver, lets not forget this was only his 3rd race. He has shown some surprisiong driving already in the previous races and now a podium finish I hope he gets a seat in on eof the three top teams soon to fully exploit his potential.



    Well, Alonso did not finish anyhow The Renault engine was not good enough

    Who cares about the penalty? Shumacher also got penalties in previous races

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Quote:
    paul86 said:
    i'm very curious what can you say about kubica..
    his third race, and third place



    I dont like him, because Im big Villeneuve fan, and Kubica replaced Villeneuve and had some strange comments about him and about fans from Poland too... But as a race driver, he is showing great potencial, he is very talented driver.

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Here is some backround on Charlie Whiting's (FIA) recent rulings that have turned F1 into A FRAUD.

    Hungarian GP:
    Schuamcher was being followed by another driver who was going faster and trying to overtake him, while the other driver was trying to out brake him, Schumacher skips the chicane twice. When you do that you are supposed to give up your position since skipping the a chicane straight is not a fair way to avoid an overtake (another example is the Monaco chicane). Schumacher does not get penalised for this and on the pilots meeting,
    - De La Rosa confused asks Charlie Whiting "You did not penalise Schumacher for skipping the chicane anfd not giving up the position, is it legal now to skip the chicanes and not give up the position?"
    - Charlie Whitting says "Yes, you can do that".
    - De La Rosa says even more confused now since this means that all drivers can do this now "How many times can we do this now?"
    - Charly Whiting says " Well.... not too many"


    Turkey GP:
    Regulations say that when defending a position you can only make one change of direction to defend it, you cannot weave back and forth from side to side due to the danger this implies in racing. Schummacher on the start of the Turkey GP makes THREE direction changes to defend against Alonso. CHarlie Whiting does NOT penalise him again.
    - Afterwards Alonso/Renault asks Charly, "why was he not penalised?"
    - Charlie denies Schumacher's maneuver's were ilegal.
    - Alonso/Rebnault says that he did three direction changes, and shows him the video of the start
    - Charlie after being SHOWN the video of the start asy, you are right, I will have to go and have a TALK with Schumacher about that. NO PENALTY, schumacher gets a "talk".
    If Kimi would have done that, would he gotten away with it? I don't think so.


    Italian GP:
    - Alonso blows a tire ond the end of the last stint of clasifying and after changing the tires, needs to get past the start before the time end in order to get a chance at a qualifying lap. Massa who already has a 3rd top time in the grip, complains that Alonso blocked him in qualifying, Massa, who unlike Alosn, is not reinging world champion, and is not the championship leader. Telemetry shows Massa was not blocked and Alosn has done nothing intentional. In the last GP, De La Rosa failed to get a good qualifying time becuase he encountered traffic in the last laps, after the race De La Rosa stated that that is normal racing, no harm was done.
    But this is the best part, it was not Ferrari who asked for the penalty, Massa just complained, it was Charlie Whiting once again who out of his own iniciative decides to give that penalty to Alonso.

    I can't figure out how a true sportman can like winning and retiring this way... what a fraud. What will we see in the next three races in order to set it up for Schumacher to have no competition so he can be "handed" the championship?
    I just want to see that Charly Whiting (FIA) & Ferrari's efforts are useless...


    Alosno has said after Saturday, "I will never think of F1 as a "sport" again". No kidding.




    Hey Carlos! Would you like a hankie?

    You almost sound like me last year when Kimi suffered so much bad luck it became suspecious. Would you likee to join the Official Boohoo Fanclub? Hehehe..

    I have told you numerous times that F1 is anything but fair.
    The mere fact that Feminando Alooser is even close to winning the championship is proof that something is not right.

    I even told you numerous times that Feminando's fluke "championship" would be a one-off show. Wont happen again. And now that she is no longer in the field's most superior car from 07 season, she will be busy just keeping the McLaren going for a full race.
    Just enjoy the fact that your hero still is in contention for the championship.

    Having said that, rotten or not, I think Feminonzo will have a very hard time holding back Schumi these last three races.
    Unless he (MS) suffers mech failure and DNFs, I cant see All Aloneso drive this one home. Schumi can smell blood....and he WILL get his prey.


    The rules of F1 are being enforced totally hap-hazardously.
    Today we saw several drivers (including Schumi, Alooser and others) going thru the chikane illegally, but with no consequences at all.
    Coming out of the pitlane someone (was that Trulli?) even pushed another driver off the track to get ahead....and still no consequence.
    Then Heidfeld drives a bit too fast in the pitlane, and wham! Drive-thru penalty.
    Makes no sense.
    Im sure Schumi gets a lot of slack in the FIA...but Im also sure other drivers do as well.
    Do I think F1 is rotten as in "corrupt"?
    Absolutely. So much money at stake, u better believe they cant afford to let coincidences control the outcome of the race schedule.

    BUT, I would think this dubious ruling on Alonso yesterday, is more a matter of making the last 3 races interesting than making sure Schumi wins.
    If any driver is too far ahead to be reached, and there are still 3 races left, Im sure a lot of viewers will be lost.
    That means lots of sponsorship money down the drain.
    Just like a couple of seasons ago when Schumi ruled all season.

    So if Alonso ever thought that F1 was a sport, she is even more naive than I thought. F1 is a business. Not a sport. I would think every driver knew this.

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    paul86 said:
    i'm very curious what can you say about kubica..
    his third race, and third place



    I'm afraid his fantatstic race was oversahdowed by the scandals and not-so-hidden agendas in F1
    Kubica is showing great talent and is looking to be a future top driver, lets not forget this was only his 3rd race. He has shown some surprisiong driving already in the previous races and now a podium finish I hope he gets a seat in on eof the three top teams soon to fully exploit his potential.



    Well, Alonso did not finish anyhow The Renault engine was not good enough

    Who cares about the penalty? Shumacher also got penalties in previous races



    He only get penalties when he parked a car in Rascasse corner and when he overtook in yelow flag aria. This was to obvious..

    But Alonso get penalty for nothing, Massa was 100 m behind him..

    Almost everyone (ofcourse except Ferrari clan) is on Alonso`s side:

    copypaste from autosport:

    "Alonso was also supported by some of his peers, with Williams drive Mark Webber telling ITV the decision was "ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous."

    Toyota's Jarno Trulli echoed the sentiments, saying there is a need to review these kind of penalties.

    ITV commentators and former F1 drivers Martin Brundle and Mark Blundell have both slammed the decision as well, saying Alonso was "cheated".

    And here is another interesting comment by Alonso:
    "I had to push the engine harder to recover from the grid position," Alonso said. "I think one per cent of people here will be happy today. Those who yesterday decided the race, I hope they sleep well tonight."

    Its funny that Ferrari`s aero device in rear tyres is not forbiden... it is a moving aero part (first rule violating) and when they change tyres, they change aero parts on car (second rule violating).

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Dr. Phil, I dont know you so I dont know why you calling Alonso like this - inappropriately.

    He is very fast driver, dont do mistakes, and all his comments and acting are on very high level; so I dont understand those inappropriately words about him (Alooser, she and so on)

    And about that who is favorized from FIA... I dont know which f1 you watching, but defenetly not the same as I do.

    Why always FIA forbids devices and parts (which were legal) on cars, which are fighting against Ferrari in championship ? In 2004 Michellin tyres suddently became illegal a few races before end (FIA had meeting in Ferrari`s factory), this year they forbit Renault`s mass damper and so on... Ferrari`s aero device in rear tyres still isnt banned... what a big suprise

    I dont understand why other teams dont quit F1 and starts new independent racing series.

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Quote:
    Shakal said:
    Dr. Phil, I dont know you so I dont know why you calling Alonso like this - inappropriately.

    He is very fast driver, dont do mistakes, and all his comments and acting are on very high level; so I dont understand those inappropriately words about him (Alooser, she and so on)

    And about that who is favorized from FIA... I dont know which f1 you watching, but defenetly not the same as I do.

    Why always FIA forbids devices and parts (which were legal) on cars, which are fighting against Ferrari in championship ? In 2004 Michellin tyres suddently became illegal a few races before end (FIA had meeting in Ferrari`s factory), this year they forbit Renault`s mass damper and so on... Ferrari`s aero device in rear tyres still isnt banned... what a big suprise

    I dont understand why other teams dont quit F1 and starts new independent racing series.



    Shakal, I think you need to have been part of the ongoing fun that we have when debating F1, to appreciate my view on Alhomso.
    I'm sure you have observed that the tone here is somewhat sarchastic and ironic a lot of the time - thats just part of Rennteam.
    I take it you havent read Carlos' song to Alhomso...and my version of the same song

    If you find my comments about Feminando Alhomo inappropriate, that's your prerogative. We cant agree on everything
    F1 is a male sport...so I cant see what Homso Badonzo is doing here?
    I think you have to be Spanish or feel sorry for his girliemidget physique to support him, but each to his own

    I think its commendable that you support him.
    When you get born sideways and stopped growing after the age of 7, you need all the love u can get


    All this aside.
    I think u are right in your observations:
    The F1 biz is rotten as hell - and I have suggested numerous times that we get a new league.
    Trouble is, it will probably end up as polluted as this one...

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    Shakal said:
    Dr. Phil, I dont know you so I dont know why you calling Alonso like this - inappropriately.

    He is very fast driver, dont do mistakes, and all his comments and acting are on very high level; so I dont understand those inappropriately words about him (Alooser, she and so on)

    And about that who is favorized from FIA... I dont know which f1 you watching, but defenetly not the same as I do.

    Why always FIA forbids devices and parts (which were legal) on cars, which are fighting against Ferrari in championship ? In 2004 Michellin tyres suddently became illegal a few races before end (FIA had meeting in Ferrari`s factory), this year they forbit Renault`s mass damper and so on... Ferrari`s aero device in rear tyres still isnt banned... what a big suprise

    I dont understand why other teams dont quit F1 and starts new independent racing series.



    Shakal, I think you need to have been part of the ongoing fun that we have when debating F1, to appreciate my view on Alhomso.
    I'm sure you have observed that the tone here is somewhat sarchastic and ironic a lot of the time - thats just part of Rennteam.
    I take it you havent read Carlos' song to Alhomso...and my version of the same song

    If you find my comments about Feminando Alhomo inappropriate, that's your prerogative. We cant agree on everything
    F1 is a male sport...so I cant see what Homso Badonzo is doing here?
    I think you have to be Spanish or feel sorry for his girliemidget physique to support him, but each to his own

    I think its commendable that you support him.
    When you get born sideways and stopped growing after the age of 7, you need all the love u can get


    All this aside.
    I think u are right in your observations:
    The F1 biz is rotten as hell - and I have suggested numerous times that we get a new league.
    Trouble is, it will probably end up as polluted as this one...



    Shakal, Dr. Phil had been featured on CNN when he tried to run Alonso over with his Boxster and called him a homo. Luckily, Alonso was too small to get hit by the front bumper .

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Thats cool

    Joke is always welcome Ive thought you are big "anti Alonso fan," like for example I am "Anti Schuh macher fan"

    And BTW: Im not Alonso`s fan, but my favorite driver is Villeneuve, so I currently I dont have fav. driver in F1 - but I want to see Alonso in front of Schumacher

    Mybie my next favorite F1 driver will be Hamilton, so far his racing is very impressive

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Shakal, Dr. Phil had been featured on CNN when he tried to run Alonso over with his Boxster and called him a homo. Luckily, Alonso was too small to get hit by the front bumper .




    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Jackie Stewart said tonight that the ruling was incorrect!

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Maybe they should penalize drivers only retroactively the week after the race, by a commitee with votes.

    Penalties would be lost spots on the final ranking. Seems easy enough. Too easy for F1 actually!

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Thanks Carlos for giving objective data with a non "demagoggia" attitude, or easy jokes as other do....this is not a joke. F1 has been supposed to be a "sport"......in past days it maybe did "reasonably". But this type of evidences are so clear in the oposite way....

    "Original" and "funny" phrases do not add a single rational reason against the evidence....

    For me, too much, too much from the so clear point I can stand with..(of course the engine crashed!.....why it did?!!). If you beguin with "such" a penalty, you are forced to go 200 %!

    In any case...still three races, let's see, how the phenomenons of this leagues react (not refering to cars or pilots)....maybe they could provoke a clean alternative..........

    In any case, I have to remember some nice words from Carlos, refering to motorbyke competition............real Races! And an applause to Valentino, and to the example of a big 20 year old man called Pedrosa..........he knows what the word "Resolution" means........
    Maybe the F1 chiefs should follow the example, to be able of pronounciating the word "Sport"

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Doesnt really matter now. Feminando Aloooooser's car broke down, so this debate is purely academic. However, I would like to add, that any measurement the FIA could take into use to make Feminando lose or even retire from F1 is welcomed by me



    Yes it does matter because next time it will happen to Raikkonen.... uuups.... no, because he already has signet to Ferrari, so he has to finish second so that Ferrari and Shuey can get their title..... Anyway for him to be a champion they will have ti change all the F1 rules.....

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Quote:
    ed_moree said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Doesnt really matter now. Feminando Aloooooser's car broke down, so this debate is purely academic. However, I would like to add, that any measurement the FIA could take into use to make Feminando lose or even retire from F1 is welcomed by me



    Yes it does matter because next time it will happen to Raikkonen.... uuups.... no, because he already has signet to Ferrari, so he has to finish second so that Ferrari and Shuey can get their title..... Anyway for him to be a champion they will have ti change all the F1 rules.....



    I like the way all you spanish guys get all worked up over poor Feminando.
    LOL! But it seems you have to be spanish to really believe in her.
    Aah, theres nothing like patriotism.

    Quick quiz:
    Feminando Alonso is

    a) a spanish superpilot who gets cheated and penalized all the time by the corrupted and Ferrari-biased FIA.

    b) an average driver who happens to drive the best car backed by the best pitcrew...and coincidentally happens to be a gay midget, too.

    PS: Free hankies and paella if you choose A.


    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Quote:
    Byron said:
    For me, too much, too much from the so clear point I can stand with..(of course the engine crashed!.....why it did?!!). If you beguin with "such" a penalty, you are forced to go 200 %!




    Oh no! She had to actually push the car hard! Unlike ALL the other drivers!

    Oh no! WAIT! It was Ferrari! THEY SPRINKLED BAD-BAD-DUST ON HER CAR!

    OH NO! It was the FIA! They made Renault drive the race with no coolers, so the car broke down, and also FORCED Alooso to push the car more than it could take.

    Man, all this corruption...it just makes me wanna....wanna...*sob*....wanna...*booohoo*....



    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Once again, words, only words............very "funny" and "original" words. No data, no empirc reasons.......a world of feelings without material reality........

    I'd love this type of situations could end in a impartial civil court of justice...maybe then, some actions of some "Sport" teams or "Authorities" would think it twice.....there are a lot of consecuences of such decissions...

    .......no longer a sport............in my humble appreciation...

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    On 'Radio Marca', the 25-year-old Alonso called his 2006 championship rival the "most unsporting driver in the history of formula one"

    Just picked this off a news site, so glad he said this.

    Re: Monza. Alonso's Penalty

    Quote:
    911fan said:
    On 'Radio Marca', the 25-year-old Alonso called his 2006 championship rival the "most unsporting driver in the history of formula one"

    Just picked this off a news site, so glad he said this.



    His next words were even better

    Alonso: "Zidane retired with more glory than Schumacher"


     
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