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    Am I right most of you are going for the Carrera S?

    Just wanted to know as I've still haven't made up my mind whether to go for the standard 997 Carrera or Carrera S?

    There's no doubt the residuals on the "S" will be strong but what about the standard 997 Carrera as the majority of be going for the higher powered version?

    Re: Am I right most of you are going for the Carrera S?

    Quote:
    lavaman23 said:
    Just wanted to know as I've still haven't made up my mind whether to go for the standard 997 Carrera or Carrera S?

    There's no doubt the residuals on the "S" will be strong but what about the standard 997 Carrera as the majority of be going for the higher powered version?



    It isn't actually only about power, the 997 S is just the better overall deal. But I have a lot of people in my hometown here in Germany who actually ordered the 997 Carrera (not S) because of the lower price tag. They put additional money in options and don't care about power, 19'' wheels or suspensions.

    If money isn't a real issue, go for the S. If you have to turn every dime twice, go for the Carrera. Life is simple, isn't it?

    Re: Am I right most of you are going for the Carrera S?

    My next porsche is going to be a 996 or 997.
    Which model I buy depends on other factors (mostly financial and/or familiy related).

    As I see it I have two alternatives:
    1) A new 997S with almost no options
    2) A used 996 mk2 (3.6L)

    If money wasn't an issue I'll go with 1).

    I believe (and my dealer as well) that the prices of used 3.6L 996 will decrease sharply, they are too close to the price of the 997, and there will be more 996 reaching the market when they are turned in by 997 buyers. For these reasons I think that alternative 2) can be interesting in a couple of months

    I don't see why I should go for the standard 997. I think that you will get the S-premium back when you sell the car, i.e. there is no depreciation on the 'S-option' as opposed to most options which depreciate faster than the car. The situation is similar to the Boxster - BoxsterS.

    The only problem is that I really love my BoxsterS, it will be hard to part with it...

    Re: Am I right most of you are going for the Carrera S?

    I'm going for the S purely for the 3.8 and the extra power (unless I get my mythical GT3 drive sometime soon and I change my mind). I'll probably add the no cost sports suspension and the sports exhaust + sunroof and a few low cost other options. Apart from the power hike, if you can live without that you can save yourself a tidy bundle going for the normal Carrera. I don't think there's much in it. If I was forced to go for the cheaper car due to financial circumstances I'd hardly be worried about it, they're both lovely cars!! A few tenths of a second here or there won't alter the fact it's a new 911.

    Re: Am I right most of you are going for the Carrera S?

    I ordered the S...options, power all make it a great deal...if i am spending this much money i want it all

    Budget version vs the real thing.

    Sorry, but if you are buying a $80K car it would be weird if you couldn't afford the extra $10K for the S.

    If you have another $10K to burn, you guy the S.

    If you don't, then why are you looking at a 911?

    Just telling it like I see it.

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.

    But where does this logic begin or end?

    If I could buy a $60K car, why can't I just shell out another $10K for a $70K car? But then, if I can shell out $70K, why not $80K, and so on?

    Some people just want a 911, and perhaps $80K is already a stretch for them, and $90K is prohibitively expensive based on lines they have drawn for themselves. Line drawing is not as irrational or completely unprincipled as some may think.

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.

    Quote:
    MaxErnst said:
    Sorry, but if you are buying a $80K car it would be weird if you couldn't afford the extra $10K for the S.

    If you have another $10K to burn, you guy the S.

    If you don't, then why are you looking at a 911?

    Just telling it like I see it.



    As I see it, that is an arrogant statement. Not all of us are wealthy, some of us have loved Porsche cars all their lives. Some of us have family commitments including three kids in college.

    I discoverd Porsches when I was 12 when a neighbor had a brand new 1968 Targa. Still to this day, I remember very vividly the engine sound as he rounded the corner in front of my house. That is why when I was 18, using my own money that I earned from jobs, I bought my first new Porsche. I did everything with that car including road racing it, autocrosses, and ralleys. I still have this car and in the process of restoring it.

    Four months ago I would have been happy with a 996 until I discovered the new 997. Yes the 997S is a better car, but I would been happy with an 996 before. And the standard 997 is an improvement of the 996.

    There are no guarantees in life and so when the opportunity to get a 997 now or wait another 4 years, I will take delivery of a standard 997 well equiped and be extremely happy.

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.


    vtrader: well said. There are lots of poseurs and snobs on these boards - you are not one of them. You are a P-car aficionado.

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.

    vtrader, I really appreciate your statement

    Not everyone is going each weekend for track days and need the extra power, some like the comfort and don't care about the missing power and sport suspension each one should be satisfied with the car he orders.(and pays for!)

    Please don't compare Boxster and Carrera with each other!

    Has anyone here already real driving experience with Carrera and Carrera S once? Please report it!!!!!
    Where can you feel the difference you have to pay some 10k$
    extra?
    Is it the power issue?
    Are the 19 inch wheels worth to pay for?
    Lowered sport suspension, don't think so!
    PASM, may be this could be a really matter about to upgrade or the Xenon lights are a must buy!

    Please some arguments why to spend extra money.

    Re: Am I right most of you are going for the Carrera S?

    Well, I can't justify the money myself for a 997, as much as I would like one. But I am extremely thankful that I can afford a new 987"S" - the point I am going to make the long way round is I am going for the "S" not entirely for the extra performance but I wouldn't want to get the standard car and spend the rest of my tenure with it wishing I'd gone for the better car.

    Re: Am I right most of you are going for the Carrera S?

    if you can then you must, if you can't, the base carrera is OK, but it is still a compromise.

    like MaxErnst said, if can't afford an extra 10k, then the original 70k is probably already stretching it too far for you anyway.

    but thats the american market for you, some people just want the car for the pose factor and don't care about value / what they could have for a nominal bit more (even though some may or may not be able to afford the S)

    I'm getting the S because it has an S on the rear...

    Just kidding - The extra power is nice and I think if I got a non S model and added the options I wanted it would be about the same price as the S. And since the S has almost everything I want standard. . I'll just get that one and then the extra power is like for freee !!

    FREE POWER !


    Re: I'm getting the S because it has an S on the rear...

    not to mention a supposedly MUCH more developed/reliable engine

    the S is the right choice

    however, some may find it a difficult choice between a fully optioned S and a 996 GT3...

    Re: I'm getting the S because it has an S on the rear...

    to each his own, the only car you can go WRONG with in Porsche's entire range today are the

    40th Anniversary 911 -maserati rivaling residuals and value in general

    C4S Cabrio (wayyy too much pose factor)

    and possible the VW engined base Cayenne that is killing the image of the entire cayenne range.

    Re: Am I right most of you are going for the Carrera S?

    Quote:
    but thats the american market for you, some people just want the car for the pose factor and don't care about value



    So you are saying a Carrera 997 is an imitation Porsche, suitable for posers, while the Carrera 997S with 7.6% more horsepower (and 50lbs more weight) is the real deal?

    Posers get 0 - 60mph in 5.2 seconds, the real deal is 0 - 60mph in 5.0 seconds?

    One magazine described the difference as "hot" vs. "hotter".

    By any standard the plain old poser 997 is one hot car.

    Re: Am I right most of you are going for the Carrera S?

    no intention to bash the base 911, what i was indicating was,

    that for aproximately 10k more, most buyers (or ones that can really afford the car) at a 70k price point ( for the base) should be able to afford the S.

    whether or not they choose the S is dependant on them, but like i said, an enthusiast will likely choose the S, leaving the base model to people who are 'not interested' or simply are stretched too thin already for the base to afford the S.

    the base is a fine car, but if compared to the S, (this is very similar to the boxster vs S discussion) there are many reasons for someone to choose the S over the base.

    obviously base owners will digress, and say things like, oh mines a better value, fine for me. i'm saying that if someone can afford the S, they will likely spring for it (if they intend to keep the car longer than 4-5 years).

    that said, let me repeat, the base is a fine car, but compared directly to the S and for the 15-20% price difference, most buyers should be able to afford the extra $, and WILL go for the S if they are enthusiasts).

    and if they CANT afford the S they are stretched too thin to begin with.

    i commend porsche for adopting the boxster markting strategy for the 911, offering a clear differentiation between a powerkit model and the entry model.

    buyers who spring for the entry model aren't going wrong by any means, but every time an S passes you, you should be secure in the knowledge that you ARE getting passed by a more than 20%($) better car and that for 10k more, you could have had that.

    Re: Am I right most of you are going for the Carrera S?

    997 Turbo X50 is what im gonna wait for ... a looong wait .. but well worth it ... well by that time ill have a steady job ha

    Re: I'm getting the S because it has an S on the rear...

    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    to each his own, the only car you can go WRONG with in Porsche's entire range today are the


    C4S Cabrio (wayyy too much pose factor)




    If you want an open top Porsche, go for a Boxster

    Re: I'm getting the S because it has an S on the rear...

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    If you want an open top Porsche, go for a Boxster



    got one, best twisty road car ever IMHO.

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.

    With the exception of German Autobahn (because there are no speed limits) I don't see how someone can use the full capabilities of the new 997S on public roads - without breaking the law I mean

    For me it's a simple issue: do you take your car to the track too ? If yes buy a 997S with -20mm sport suspension and rear LSD.

    Do you want to use it as a daily driver (365 days per year I mean, not 20 weekends) ? Get the 997, maybe with PASM for comfort (the 19" wheels of the 997S will not give you too much comfort for a daily driver, especially each time when you park).

    Are you the showoff-type-of-person-look-guys-I-have the-newest-coolest-toy ? Get the 997S with PASM (marketing is a good brain washing tool).

    Word.

    P.S. If the 997-GT3 will not have PASM, then I am correct and PASM is a market tool created because of the competition Porsche is getting from other brands.

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.

    porsche is like baskin 31 flavours robbins.

    something for everyone

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.

    Quote:
    Pentium said:P.S. If the 997-GT3 will not have PASM, then I am correct and PASM is a market tool created because of the competition Porsche is getting from other brands.



    Of course, the 997 GT3 will not have PASM. Even the 997S with Sports suspension throws out the PASM in exchange for better handling (proven with lower Nurburgring times)...

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.

    You're right, Moogle. Porsche now does offer something for everyone, not only in its range of cars (Cayenne, Boxster, 911), but also within a single car model (comfort mode, sport mode, -20mm sport suspension, wood interior, carbon interior, XM radio, etc.). That's why, pretty soon, it wouldn't surprise me if the 911 had active cruise control, DVD players, third-row seating!

    Dr. Porsche once said that Porsches weren't cars that were something for everyone, but rather, that they were cars that were everything to someone. That hardcore-ness was perhaps more rhetoric than anything else, I don't know. But Porsche is undeniably a less cool, less mystical brand than it used to be.

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.

    Here is what AutoWeek said about the 997S PASM:

    Quote:
    For drivers that stick to public roads, we're torn over PASM. You will feel the difference between normal and sport, but our test drive did not convince us the system is desirable - at least not this version. We only drove cars with PASM, but would like to get some seat time with the standard suspension because PASM does not have a setting equivalent to the non-active setup. In sports mode, the suspension feels too skittish over bumps, and normal mode isn't quite sporty enough. Then again, considering that you must take PASM in order to get the 3.8-liter engine, the choice between cars - cost aside - does not seem quite so clear cut.



    I can easily afford either car. I have an October build date for a 997.

    I will drive it 365 days a year on public roads. I will never visit a race track with my car, I doubt many do.

    The 19" rims on the 997S seem unnecessary by any engineering criteria (and thus a bit too bling bling for my tastes), likewise the "quad exhausts" that are just a Y off dual exhausts, not terrible, but it offends me a little. I don't find the sport steering wheel that attractive, and, for me, the jury is still out on the usefulness of PASM.

    Is more horsepower better? Of course it is, but let's keep things in perspective. We are talking about improving 9.8 lbs/hp to something like 9.2 lbs/hp. By any automotive standards 9.8 lbs/hp is still a rocket, especially for public roads.

    For me the value equation wasn't there for the 997S, but for others it is. To each his own. What wonderful cars to choose from!

    Moogle - why so dogmatic?

    You haven't even driven both cars and yet you're so confident that the S is at least 20% better blah blah?!? I've spoken to several dealers who attended the launch event and all have said that they couldn't tell much of a difference - at least not enough to justify the $10K difference.

    There are times when even if someone CAN afford an item they DON'T buy it because it doesn't meet their value perspective. To each his own.

    Re: Moogle - why so dogmatic?

    theres always the 'street credit factor' and that alone should be worth it .

    indeed to each his own, if someone wants the carrera base OVER the S while he/she can afford the S with no additional problem, thats fine with me, they are getting a fine car, and a sure future classic.

    i will admit some of the things i said are just insights into the way I think and should be viewed as such.



    and barrett, you are right, porsche IS becoming more mainstream in order to be profitable and remain independant.

    and there are going to be DVD players in the cayenne next year, and I think active cruise shouldn't be far off, either as an option in all cars, or as standard in the luxury/cayenne models.

    Re: Useful reality vs the real thing. 997 vs 997S


    Pose Pose Pose. Feature match, upgrade feature match, psychic satisfaction for sale at Porsche!

    Get real guys, a plain jane 997 with one spark plug wire disconnected, broken 5th and 6th gears and bald rear tires
    will out handle, out accellerate and just runaway from 99.99% of cars on the road. To say nothing of making you the superstar of traffic court appearances if you dared to use
    even 40% of its remaining performance.

    Anybody remember the slogan of "form follows function?"

    You guys in the US touting your choice of a 997S over a standard 997 for performance are just blowing smoke. How many of you who claim, "duhhhh I need the S for track days"
    use that as code for "I want to have psychic moral high ground over a standard 997 owner " Seems like you have fallen for check book pack order status to me.

    How many US owners actually get to use the full performance of their cars, even on the track? Track day excuses sound like pure BS to me. The least a prosepective 997 S owner could say is "I like how it looks over a standard 997." But nooooo, they invoke speed! Stop kidding yourselves. Spend the money on a rear wiper instead so you can at least see the envy of the faces in the cars behind you on a rainy day.

    I like seeing Porsche make all the profit they can from their
    customers who buy 911s for iconic "I have arrived and I have gifted myself" reasons. Its even funnier when buyers get a Kia loaner car and then moan about it. Like they aren't even able to fully use the silly 100mph Kia anyway!

    A standard, zero option 997 is a helluva of a car. I dare any US customer to name one REAL practical reason as to
    why he needs anymore performance than it offers.

    Go ahead. Name one performance advantage the 997 S has over a standard 997 that truly makes a difference in driving
    in the US.

    Re: Useful reality vs the real thing. 997 vs 997S

    you're absolutely right "jimflat6"...

    the extra features of the 997S are suspect in terms of extractability and usability for the everyday driver.

    the S is what people are paying porsche for, and it is the only thing they REALLY want.

    'psychic moral high ground over a base 997 owner' - spot on.

    Re: Useful reality vs the real thing. 997 vs 997S

    well.i am one of those that can say i went for the s because i think it looks batter and it has a better value for the standard equiment.i dont care for the extra 30hp.i will never go on a race track and so on...

    so basicly i agree with your thoughts.

     
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