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    Re: DCS suspension controller

    Ive written up reasonable extensively on my findings on the DSC after 6 track days and 4000 miles over on the GT4 & GT3 pages at Rennlist if anyone is interested..


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    2014 991 GT3, 1994 993C2 6spd, 2016 Cayman GT4 (on order)


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    macca993:

    Ive written up reasonable extensively on my findings on the DSC after 6 track days and 4000 miles over on the GT4 & GT3 pages at Rennlist if anyone is interested..

    Yes, I have read them - good stuff Smiley


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    Grant:
    macca993:

    Ive written up reasonable extensively on my findings on the DSC after 6 track days and 4000 miles over on the GT4 & GT3 pages at Rennlist if anyone is interested..

    Yes, I have read them - good stuff Smiley


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    And what is the conclusion , if I may ask ? 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    Gnil:
    Grant:
    macca993:

    Ive written up reasonable extensively on my findings on the DSC after 6 track days and 4000 miles over on the GT4 & GT3 pages at Rennlist if anyone is interested..

    Yes, I have read them - good stuff Smiley


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    And what is the conclusion , if I may ask ? 

    From Macca:

    "I have installed it and run 6 track days with it now plus 4000 road miles. 

    Its a very interesting product. 

    It certainly improves long distance road driving comfort in normal mode. It relaxes the dampers on constant throttle when there are no lateral loads then tightens everything up when going into a corner. 

    On the track I have determined around 0.3s benefit per 1 minute lap at my local track over the factory module but it does need some tuning depending on your circuit. The base map ships with the 991 variant is a pretty good start but the DSC agent down here has spent countless track days with our crew helping them set the system up to be more reliable on our local circuit and it does make a difference. The system works but reverting between tables (G, speed, brake) and applying different characteristics (firmness) to each individual shock accordingly. In theory this is wonderful and the system delay due to the limitations of the OEM shock are around 100ms, however in reality this translates to transition times between maps switching and dampers changing characteristics of 1s or so. This latent delay is the weakness and where the programming can be useful as if you have a specific situation (i.e. hard right hand tightening 90kmph corner end of fast up hill straight with a kink vmax 232kmph) like at our local track you can tune the system to work better with the limitations (i.e. under load uphill straight = speed table shocks full firm, then under brakes end of straight = brake table front shocks firm - but now the trick part trail braking off the brakes while turning in = G tables outside shocks firm). As you can see from my example three extreme transitions in less than 2s! The base system did not handle this so well and this situation occurs twice a lap at our local track. 

    Once programming changes were made (I can get the new map) it improved. The system does tend to make the steering and car feel heavier under loads (turning) as it stiffens the shocks etc but being an aircooled track guy I knida liked that. The DSC definitely made the car more stable over the hill (unloaded left hand corner over a rise) and into a number of the slower and faster corners. If your local track doesnt have massive transitional changes and had plenty of fast sweepers the system will work well out of the box. I ran 5 different tracks with the system and the faster more flowing tracks the system was great, just in the tighter more technical tracks it can get upset so needs some fine tuning the tables to allow smoother transitions between each corner of the cars behavior (i.e. the system uses a very rudimentary software to tune IMO, not overly user friendly and brakes the corners up to be four symmetrical quadrants like a square when I think the transitions between each corner of the car should be more gradual and thus a pattern like the back of an eveolope is more appropriate to bleed the transitions. Im not sure this will make any sense to you without seeing teh software.

    For $1200 its a very reasonable investment to improve comfort for long touring between tracks and give you a 0.4-0.6s advantage per laps at most longer tracks. Tuned with improved settings that improvement could be greater. For me on my shorter tracks it is less but then the time between cars at the top of the group is also very small so the advantage can be useful. It works each wheel out individually so you will notice tyre pressures per wheel changing more frequently and with greater deviation than with the OEM PASM. Im still unsure how this translates to tyre wear or grip but so far seems fine. Its a 5 minute job to swap the units and there are no tools needed so you can flip between the OEM & DSC on the track to determine yourself. I trialed mine first before I committed to buy it so I am not giving biased info here because Ive invested. Some may not like the constant "live" tuning of the chassis and here Im a little on the fence and need some more seat time. 

    In summary and on early impressions the system is worth the investment and will improve your lap times and general enjoyment of the car but it will need some further mapping work to get the absolute best from it and Jeff Delio the DSC agent in NZ who is a US guy and supported race teams in USA is working very hard to improve the maps for the GT3 & GT4 and Im sure can share them. Some individuals may prefer a set system like the factory provides at the expense of faster laps. Everyone is different but for the investment I think its an interesting product to buy and try yourself. Many swear by it etc. I need some more seat time with it and to switch back my OEM unit to make a final conclusion, but at this time Im supportive of the benefits with a few criticisms that hopefully will be addressed with time..."


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    Thanks Grant. I am not there yet , but nice to know it exist and works. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    John at Fabspeed was very helpful;,Autoquest in FL, is working both on r & p, and gears for gt4!  The r & p should be ready for market in 2 months and very affordable. Sun plans on installing the r n p.

    Gavin at Autoquest is highly knowledgeable and most helpful.  They have hot rod bits for rs and gt3, which Sky may apply to his next rig.

    Gavin points out that gt4 has much weaker rear suspension geometry than gt3, which constricts the negative camber build needed in a corner; this issue is not something the dsc controller can resolve.


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    watt:

    John at Fabspeed was very helpful;,Autoquest in FL, is working both on r & p, and gears for gt4!  The r & p should be ready for market in 2 months and very affordable. Sun plans on installing the r n p.

    Gavin at Autoquest is highly knowledgeable and most helpful.  They have hot rod bits for rs and gt3, which Sky may apply to his next rig.

    Gavin points out that gt4 has much weaker rear suspension geometry than gt3, which constricts the negative camber build needed in a corner; this issue is not something the dsc controller can resolve.

    Good news on R&P.  I hope it will be top quality.  This is a part under huge stress due to the internal geometry and failures of aftermarket parts here are common.  Guard Transmission had to quit this effort due to multiple failures from their suppliers and focus just on gears instead.  Did they mention what ratio would be available?

    WRT to the GT4's strut rear suspension, I was expecting this to be a real weak point of the car.  However, I have found rear grip and tire wear to be excellent.  It's the front axle (from the GT3) that has trouble gripping and preserving tires (wearing the center of the tread - lower pressure helps, but still a problem).  At the track, I am on pace to go through 3 or 4 sets of front tires for every rear (even with lots of camber).  I think the biggest issue is the front tires are too narrow compared to the rear and no matter what alignment you run this ends up being the bottleneck.


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    watt:

    Grant 

    please post his lap differentials.  Ive asked Leong for his and will report.

    My buddy likes the DSC - his time was about 0.5 sec faster on a 2 min lap.  His tires were less than fresh, so delta may have been greater if better rubber.


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    I was on the fence with dsc until i ran Takaka Hill twice today hammer down 1-2 and ten secs of 3.  the dsc is titz so firm in the corners


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    Glad to hear - my buddy like his too and there is much that can be done to further customize/improve its performance...


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    Grant:
    watt:

    John at Fabspeed was very helpful;,Autoquest in FL, is working both on r & p, and gears for gt4!  The r & p should be ready for market in 2 months and very affordable. Sun plans on installing the r n p.

    Gavin at Autoquest is highly knowledgeable and most helpful.  They have hot rod bits for rs and gt3, which Sky may apply to his next rig.

    Gavin points out that gt4 has much weaker rear suspension geometry than gt3, which constricts the negative camber build needed in a corner; this issue is not something the dsc controller can resolve.

    Good news on R&P.  I hope it will be top quality.  This is a part under huge stress due to the internal geometry and failures of aftermarket parts here are common.  Guard Transmission had to quit this effort due to multiple failures from their suppliers and focus just on gears instead.  Did they mention what ratio would be available?

    WRT to the GT4's strut rear suspension, I was expecting this to be a real weak point of the car.  However, I have found rear grip and tire wear to be excellent.  It's the front axle (from the GT3) that has trouble gripping and preserving tires (wearing the center of the tread - lower pressure helps, but still a problem).  At the track, I am on pace to go through 3 or 4 sets of front tires for every rear (even with lots of camber).  I think the biggest issue is the front tires are too narrow compared to the rear and no matter what alignment you run this ends up being the bottleneck.


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    Did get ratio quoted by Gavin, and he said just calculate 20 % redline speed reduction for each gear... Which should do it, and reduce the need tomuse first thus avoiding frequent anguish with the 1-2 gapSmileySmiley


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    Grant:

    WRT to the GT4's strut rear suspension, I was expecting this to be a real weak point of the car.  However, I have found rear grip and tire wear to be excellent.  It's the front axle (from the GT3) that has trouble gripping and preserving tires (wearing the center of the tread - lower pressure helps, but still a problem).  At the track, I am on pace to go through 3 or 4 sets of front tires for every rear (even with lots of camber).  I think the biggest issue is the front tires are too narrow compared to the rear and no matter what alignment you run this ends up being the bottleneck.

    Hi Grant.. Are you running Dunlops? I found my Dunlops chewed the centre rib out in no time, but so far the Cups have been better - after a hard day at Imola they still lookg good and even.


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    DaveGordon:
    Grant:

    WRT to the GT4's strut rear suspension, I was expecting this to be a real weak point of the car.  However, I have found rear grip and tire wear to be excellent.  It's the front axle (from the GT3) that has trouble gripping and preserving tires (wearing the center of the tread - lower pressure helps, but still a problem).  At the track, I am on pace to go through 3 or 4 sets of front tires for every rear (even with lots of camber).  I think the biggest issue is the front tires are too narrow compared to the rear and no matter what alignment you run this ends up being the bottleneck.

    Hi Grant.. Are you running Dunlops? I found my Dunlops chewed the centre rib out in no time, but so far the Cups have been better - after a hard day at Imola they still lookg good and even.

    Yes, Dave.  I do have Dunlops.  I was hoping to wait for the much less expensive Bridgestones RE71R, but sounds like a set of Michelins might be a good stop-gap.  Thanks for the tip!


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    watt:
    Grant:
    watt:

    John at Fabspeed was very helpful;,Autoquest in FL, is working both on r & p, and gears for gt4!  The r & p should be ready for market in 2 months and very affordable. Sun plans on installing the r n p.

    Gavin at Autoquest is highly knowledgeable and most helpful.  They have hot rod bits for rs and gt3, which Sky may apply to his next rig.

    Gavin points out that gt4 has much weaker rear suspension geometry than gt3, which constricts the negative camber build needed in a corner; this issue is not something the dsc controller can resolve.

    Good news on R&P.  I hope it will be top quality.  This is a part under huge stress due to the internal geometry and failures of aftermarket parts here are common.  Guard Transmission had to quit this effort due to multiple failures from their suppliers and focus just on gears instead.  Did they mention what ratio would be available?

    WRT to the GT4's strut rear suspension, I was expecting this to be a real weak point of the car.  However, I have found rear grip and tire wear to be excellent.  It's the front axle (from the GT3) that has trouble gripping and preserving tires (wearing the center of the tread - lower pressure helps, but still a problem).  At the track, I am on pace to go through 3 or 4 sets of front tires for every rear (even with lots of camber).  I think the biggest issue is the front tires are too narrow compared to the rear and no matter what alignment you run this ends up being the bottleneck.


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    Did get ratio quoted by Gavin, and he said just calculate 20 % redline speed reduction for each gear... Which should do it, and reduce the need tomuse first thus avoiding frequent anguish with the 1-2 gapSmileySmiley

    Wow, 20% is a huge reduction!  Glad there's an option - look forward to your impressions. Any sense of timing or cost yet?

    Top speed is going to be less than 154 mph at redline in 6th.  Definitely not good for our German friends, but I'd be curious to try it.


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    Autoquest is having trouble keeping the r n p from failing as the rear is low already and the shaft gets thin when they do what's needed to get 20% REDLINE REDUCTIONS....   so we shall see if they can conquer this issue and ship.


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    Sun pulled the DCS today -  truck picks up GT4 for sale next week.

    The DCS was very successful -  ran in sport mode all the time with great grip and handling even tho' most of Sun's roads  are bumpy, very twisty and narrow 1-2-3 gear with heavy braking on same.  Really smoothed out sport mode and made it useful on these "bad" [non track like]. runs.

    it's for sale $900 NZD vs new at $2300 NZDangry


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    The real eye opener is driving the stock box!!!!  No more sport chassis on my roads!!!!!  DCS. = much better handling.  It was worth it.


    Re: DCS suspension controller

    I fitted one to my 997.2 GT3 .. the map from DSC was bumpy road.

    For UK A and B roads, ride compliance is noticeably improved. Steering feel improved (slightly less fidgeting and more accurate) too on bumpy roads. And you can use Sport mode on UK roads.

    The car feels more sure footed, handles with more precision and because ride compliance is better, whole car feels more cohesive.

    The one 'downside' is that it feels less 'raw' .. but for me, the trade off is well worth it.


     
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