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    New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    I had the chance (by mistake of course ) to see a CAD "picture" of the almost final Panamera. What can I say, it looks pretty good (very stylish, didn't expect that from Porsche) but it also looks HUGE and pretty wide. Despite the stylish look, it still looks aggressive but unfortunately also a little bit "japanized" (if this is the word to describe it).

    I thought that the Panamera is supposed to be a competitor for the BMW 5 series and Audi A6 series but apparently the Panamera is more targeted at the BMW 7series and Mercedes S class.

    It also seems that AT LEAST one Panamera model will have AWD, the top model is supposed to have "around or slightly more" 600 HP.

    Unfortunately, the weight of the Panamera will also be in the 7series/S-class range, meaning that the top model may hit the 2.2 ton barrier, the base model is rumored to weight around 2 tons. There is still room for weight reduction based on the material used but I heard that I shouldn't expect less than 1.8 t for the base model.

    A hybrid version seems also to be in the planning, it may be used with the V6 (still not clear if it is coming) or the V8 engine. All engines have direct fuel injection and a surprisingly low CO2 emission for such powerful engines.

    It is still not clear if the top model gets a twin turbo charged V8 engine or a V10 engine, both variants at the same time are quite unlikely.

    The front looks a little bit like a mixture between the Carrera GT and the current Cayenne (facelift) with a "touch" of 997 Turbo. The rear looks a bit japanese to me (this is why I meant "japanized") and reminds me a little bit of current Mazda limousines but of course it looks completely different. The rear part doesn't look quite exactly of how it looks in those mule/prototype pictures, the rear window is pretty flat for a limousine but the real deal looks more like a mixture between the current Mercedes CL and a hatchback/911, it is difficult to describe. The new Panamera does NOT have a "real" hatchback rear, the prototypes are camouflaged. The rear is surprisingly 911-like and not, it is difficult to describe. The rear lights are actually much longer than they are in the pictures/photos of prototypes. It is diffult to describe it from my memory since I only had a 10-15 seconds time frame to look at the pictures before it was "removed".

    It is also interesting to hear that another rumour indicates that parts of the development team of the VW Phaeton have been assigned to Panamera development together with some "information exchange" with Audi. Why ain't I surprised?

    Again: RUMOURS, take them with a grain of salt.

    First Panameras are expected around mid 2009 (as MY 2010) cars. It is also very likely that, depending on media hype and public opinion, the hybrid version will be available from the start. Also interesting: Porsche is also rumoured to play mind games with a COUPE version of a Panamera if the Panamera is successful.

    I hope this is enough material for a "but" and "if" discussion.

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Great info as usuall .

    Thanks Christian .

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Thanks for the inside info. I don't think they can successfully position the Panamera as a competitor to the S-Class/7-Series if they are going to sell Panameras with a V6 engine option, or if they aren't going to load the thing up with gadgets. Given Porsche's failure to provide even economy-class technology like bluetooth and touch-screen navigation on their cars, I'd be even more surprised if they are able to deliver a viable S-class competitor. But if they can make it as quiet and comfortable and safe as the S-class, and as fast and fun to drive as the 911, I will be first in line.

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Great stuff!

    Quote:
    RC said:The rear part doesn't look quite exactly of how it looks in those mule/prototype pictures, the rear window is pretty flat for a limousine but the real deal looks more like a mixture between the current Mercedes CL and a hatchback/911, it is difficult to describe. The new Panamera does NOT have a "real" hatchback rear, the prototypes are camouflaged.



    Thank God, this is what I was most worried about. Looking at the test mules you imagine that the hideous hatchback'ish slopping back just has to be camo, but you always wonder... what if they hired the guy who designed the BMW 6-series' rear or something

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    ... you always wonder... what if they hired the guy who designed the BMW 6-series' rear or something



    Wash your mouth with soap Carlos

    Thank GOD Bangle has lengthy contract to screw up BMW design for a little longer.

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    RC said:Unfortunately, the weight of the Panamera will also be in the 7series/S-class range, meaning that the top model may hit the 2.2 ton barrier, the base model is rumored to weight around 2 tons. There is still room for weight reduction based on the material used but I heard that I shouldn't expect less than 1.8 t for the base model.


    That's too bad. BTW, when you say ton, do you mean US ton (2,000 lbs) or metric ton (1,000kg = 2,200 lbs)?

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    hatchback said:
    Thanks for the inside info. I don't think they can successfully position the Panamera as a competitor to the S-Class/7-Series if they are going to sell Panameras with a V6 engine option, or if they aren't going to load the thing up with gadgets.



    Some Americans would probably get a shock if they knew the kind of engines that go into Mercedes'/Audis/BMWs sold in Europe

    The S/7/A8 all come with 6-cylinder engines.

    Thanks for the info Christian, sounds like it'll be a hit

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    I wish farina was around to take our hints and come up with his fantastic drawings.

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    RC
    Regarding the weight and size of the car, are they speculations of have you heard them from your trusted sources? It does look pretty big in the pictures despite the fake panels but I have refused that it is going to be any bigger than the 5er and E-class, but I guess I'm in for a disapointment.

    The size isn't a much problem as the weight which seem to be stupidly high for a Porsche, especially when you think about how light the 911 is compared with the competitors.

    The 600hp figure for the top model doesn't come as a surprise. The new RS6 coming out in September will be pushing 580hp. The new E-class AMG coming out in 2009 will also come will power in the upper 500hp spectrum.


    Lastly will Porsche release any more drawings or perhaps release a concept in the coming 6 months?

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    luwalira said:
    RC
    Regarding the weight and size of the car, are they speculations of have you heard them from your trusted sources? It does look pretty big in the pictures despite the fake panels but I have refused that it is going to be any bigger than the 5er and E-class, but I guess I'm in for a disapointment.

    The size isn't a much problem as the weight which seem to be stupidly high for a Porsche, especially when you think about how light the 911 is compared with the competitors.

    The 600hp figure for the top model doesn't come as a surprise. The new RS6 coming out in September will be pushing 580hp. The new E-class AMG coming out in 2009 will also come will power in the upper 500hp spectrum.


    Lastly will Porsche release any more drawings or perhaps release a concept in the coming 6 months?



    I still hold my bet on Porsche trying to create a kind of niche of its own with the Panamera. Positioning it slightly above the 5/E/A6 in size, power and price. There is room for a coupe-niche between the 5/E/A6 and 7/S/A8 classes IMO, and that's what I think Porsche is aiming for

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    elysium said:
    Quote:
    luwalira said:
    RC
    Regarding the weight and size of the car, are they speculations of have you heard them from your trusted sources? It does look pretty big in the pictures despite the fake panels but I have refused that it is going to be any bigger than the 5er and E-class, but I guess I'm in for a disapointment.

    The size isn't a much problem as the weight which seem to be stupidly high for a Porsche, especially when you think about how light the 911 is compared with the competitors.

    The 600hp figure for the top model doesn't come as a surprise. The new RS6 coming out in September will be pushing 580hp. The new E-class AMG coming out in 2009 will also come will power in the upper 500hp spectrum.


    Lastly will Porsche release any more drawings or perhaps release a concept in the coming 6 months?



    I still hold my bet on Porsche trying to create a kind of niche of its own with the Panamera. Positioning it slightly above the 5/E/A6 in size, power and price. There is room for a coupe-niche between the 5/E/A6 and 7/S/A8 classes IMO, and that's what I think Porsche is aiming for



    You don't let the facts get in the way of your thinking, do you?

    The car weighs well over 2 tons and it roughy the size of an A8/7/S. They plan on selling 20,000 per anum. That's not a niche market that going head-to-head with the big boys.

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    haha what's the world coming to...Porsche SUV, Porsche Sedan, Porsche Truck, Porsche Van?

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    elysium said:
    Quote:
    hatchback said:
    Thanks for the inside info. I don't think they can successfully position the Panamera as a competitor to the S-Class/7-Series if they are going to sell Panameras with a V6 engine option, or if they aren't going to load the thing up with gadgets.



    Some Americans would probably get a shock if they knew the kind of engines that go into Mercedes'/Audis/BMWs sold in Europe

    The S/7/A8 all come with 6-cylinder engines.




    In the USA those cars are only available with a V8 minimum. The S-Class and 7-series are also available with a V12 and the A8 is available with a W12 (and a V10 as the S8). There is no way anyone in the USA would consider a car with a V6 option to be a luxury sedan comparable to the S/7/A8.

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    RC said:Unfortunately, the weight of the Panamera will also be in the 7series/S-class range, meaning that the top model may hit the 2.2 ton barrier, the base model is rumored to weight around 2 tons. There is still room for weight reduction based on the material used but I heard that I shouldn't expect less than 1.8 t for the base model.


    That's too bad. BTW, when you say ton, do you mean US ton (2,000 lbs) or metric ton (1,000kg = 2,200 lbs)?



    I guess he refers to metric ton (1,000 kgs).

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    I Love it.

    excellently info Christian( Rennteams agent 007) I would like to see another competitor in the full size luxury sedan market. Getting tired of the boring Audi(3) BMW(2) Merc(1) routine. The Maserati was supposed to spicen things up a bit, but failed misterabley IMO. Boy would it be such a shame for Audi if the panamera takes is position as number 3.


    Do you have any info on what the target sales per yr would be for the entire model?

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    amir sarmad said:
    Do you have any info on what the target sales per yr would be for the entire model?



    I believe 20,000 units annually.

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    hatchback said:
    Quote:
    elysium said:
    Quote:
    hatchback said:
    Thanks for the inside info. I don't think they can successfully position the Panamera as a competitor to the S-Class/7-Series if they are going to sell Panameras with a V6 engine option, or if they aren't going to load the thing up with gadgets.



    Some Americans would probably get a shock if they knew the kind of engines that go into Mercedes'/Audis/BMWs sold in Europe

    The S/7/A8 all come with 6-cylinder engines.




    In the USA those cars are only available with a V8 minimum. The S-Class and 7-series are also available with a V12 and the A8 is available with a W12 (and a V10 as the S8). There is no way anyone in the USA would consider a car with a V6 option to be a luxury sedan comparable to the S/7/A8.



    The top models are the same both in Europe and the USA, but Audi/Mercedes/BMW all allow themselves to sell more low-down vehicles in Europe than in the US.

    To stick with Mercedes, they supply V6 in the S-class, and 4-cylinders in the E-class for Europe, but neither is available in the US. Neither is the A-class or B-class. So my point was simply that putting a V6 in a car such as the Panamera does make sense in the Europe, even though they might not bring it to the US

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    elysium said:
    Quote:
    luwalira said:
    RC
    Regarding the weight and size of the car, are they speculations of have you heard them from your trusted sources? It does look pretty big in the pictures despite the fake panels but I have refused that it is going to be any bigger than the 5er and E-class, but I guess I'm in for a disapointment.

    The size isn't a much problem as the weight which seem to be stupidly high for a Porsche, especially when you think about how light the 911 is compared with the competitors.

    The 600hp figure for the top model doesn't come as a surprise. The new RS6 coming out in September will be pushing 580hp. The new E-class AMG coming out in 2009 will also come will power in the upper 500hp spectrum.


    Lastly will Porsche release any more drawings or perhaps release a concept in the coming 6 months?



    I still hold my bet on Porsche trying to create a kind of niche of its own with the Panamera. Positioning it slightly above the 5/E/A6 in size, power and price. There is room for a coupe-niche between the 5/E/A6 and 7/S/A8 classes IMO, and that's what I think Porsche is aiming for



    You don't let the facts get in the way of your thinking, do you?

    The car weighs well over 2 tons and it roughy the size of an A8/7/S. They plan on selling 20,000 per anum. That's not a niche market that going head-to-head with the big boys.



    I don't let each new rumor change my opinion, no. And definently not when the new rumors don't contradict what I've already said. I still think they will try to create a niche for those who want something more exclusive than a 5/E/A6 but are not ready for the 7/S/A8 "battleships" and those 7/S/A8 customers who would sacrifice some rear leg room for some sportier handling and the Porsche brand. Which should be able to give them 20 000 annually and a good profit margin on top.

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Christian, great info as usual. You call it rumour, I call it gospel. Afterall, I don't remember you being wrong yet on future Porsche product.

    Anyway, what I really want to know is if the real thing looks as tall as the test mules or is that due to the hatch look of the rear? I love the front of this car, but not the rear and side view. This could very well be a car I will consider in 2010.

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    According to sources of the Swiss Automobil Revue, PDK will start with the Panamera. No other Porsche will have it before.

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    Gnil said:
    According to sources of the Swiss Automobil Revue, PDK will start with the Panamera. No other Porsche will have it before.



    I think they are talking out of their asses. Porsche has been working on their PDK the latest 12-24 months and I believe they will launch it at the latest with the face lift of the 911.
    VW and Audi already has their transmissions in works, and BMW will be launching their DGS/SMG transmission this year. The Panamera launch is like 1.5 years away. There is no need for Porsche to wait that long.

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Interesting....

    IMO, S63/65 are currently world's leading perf limos from a perf/safety/tech/image/sales volume perspective....BMW and Audi don't play in the $100K+ (let alone $150K+) limo league in any material volumes....Bentley Flying Spur is the only other $150K+ limo that sells in any volume (though sales down some ?60% in 1H07 vs 1H06, despite cheap leases )...

    Panamera launch is 2 yrs away....roughly time of S-Class mid-cycle revision....and likely a new, ?NA AMG V12 motor, perhaps in CY08....

    Even in US, $150K+ S-Classes (S63/600/65) are difficult sales for MB, w/need to offer cheap, mfr-subsidized leases to sell units (even early in product cycle, let alone >1 yr post-launch when discounting intensifies )....large fraction of these S63/65 are sold into NYC/LA/SF....many S63/65 in Manhattan/Greenwich/BevHills are used as limos, so ample legroom and amenities are critical....

    Esp for fast fwys of SF mkt, P will need to figure out how to engineer a motor w/ample tq (w/o turbo lag) and a fast, smooth gearbox....in addition to Bluetooth, iPod, 27gall fuel tank, etc if it wants a useable/saleable commuter sedan/limo for CA/NYC mkts....

    Suspect Panamera will appeal more strongly to Bentley crowd, rather than S63/65 buyers....perhaps P should spend more time w/Bentley buyers in FL/LI/OC-type mkts to better understand their "tastes" in cars....

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    luwalira said:
    Quote:
    Gnil said:
    According to sources of the Swiss Automobil Revue, PDK will start with the Panamera. No other Porsche will have it before.



    I think they are talking out of their asses. Porsche has been working on their PDK the latest 12-24 months and I believe they will launch it at the latest with the face lift of the 911.
    VW and Audi already has their transmissions in works, and BMW will be launching their DGS/SMG transmission this year. The Panamera launch is like 1.5 years away. There is no need for Porsche to wait that long.



    Someone elso got the same info as me :

    There will be still NO PDK available, introduction of the PDK will be in 2009 together with the Panamera. But from then you will get PDK for ALL models, including the Turbo and it will replace the tiptronic.

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The rear looks a bit japanese to me (this is why I meant "japanized") and reminds me a little bit of current Mazda limousines but of course it looks completely different. The rear part doesn't look quite exactly of how it looks in those mule/prototype pictures, the rear window is pretty flat for a limousine but the real deal looks more like a mixture between the current Mercedes CL and a hatchback/911, it is difficult to describe. The new Panamera does NOT have a "real" hatchback rear, the prototypes are camouflaged. The rear is surprisingly 911-like and not, it is difficult to describe. The rear lights are actually much longer than they are in the pictures/photos of prototypes. It is diffult to describe it from my memory since I only had a 10-15 seconds time frame to look at the pictures before it was "removed".




    Maybe something like this?


    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Oh god I hope not! it looks like a french minivan with a low roof line!

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Oh god I hope not! it looks like a french minivan with a low roof line!



    +1

    I'd rather buy it with camo on it .

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I had the chance (by mistake of course ) to see a CAD "picture" of the almost final Panamera. What can I say, it looks pretty good (very stylish, didn't expect that from Porsche) but it also looks HUGE and pretty wide. Despite the stylish look, it still looks aggressive but unfortunately also a little bit "japanized" (if this is the word to describe it).

    I thought that the Panamera is supposed to be a competitor for the BMW 5 series and Audi A6 series but apparently the Panamera is more targeted at the BMW 7series and Mercedes S class.

    It also seems that AT LEAST one Panamera model will have AWD, the top model is supposed to have "around or slightly more" 600 HP.

    Unfortunately, the weight of the Panamera will also be in the 7series/S-class range, meaning that the top model may hit the 2.2 ton barrier, the base model is rumored to weight around 2 tons. There is still room for weight reduction based on the material used but I heard that I shouldn't expect less than 1.8 t for the base model.

    A hybrid version seems also to be in the planning, it may be used with the V6 (still not clear if it is coming) or the V8 engine. All engines have direct fuel injection and a surprisingly low CO2 emission for such powerful engines.

    It is still not clear if the top model gets a twin turbo charged V8 engine or a V10 engine, both variants at the same time are quite unlikely.

    The front looks a little bit like a mixture between the Carrera GT and the current Cayenne (facelift) with a "touch" of 997 Turbo. The rear looks a bit japanese to me (this is why I meant "japanized") and reminds me a little bit of current Mazda limousines but of course it looks completely different. The rear part doesn't look quite exactly of how it looks in those mule/prototype pictures, the rear window is pretty flat for a limousine but the real deal looks more like a mixture between the current Mercedes CL and a hatchback/911, it is difficult to describe. The new Panamera does NOT have a "real" hatchback rear, the prototypes are camouflaged. The rear is surprisingly 911-like and not, it is difficult to describe. The rear lights are actually much longer than they are in the pictures/photos of prototypes. It is diffult to describe it from my memory since I only had a 10-15 seconds time frame to look at the pictures before it was "removed".

    It is also interesting to hear that another rumour indicates that parts of the development team of the VW Phaeton have been assigned to Panamera development together with some "information exchange" with Audi. Why ain't I surprised?

    Again: RUMOURS, take them with a grain of salt.

    First Panameras are expected around mid 2009 (as MY 2010) cars. It is also very likely that, depending on media hype and public opinion, the hybrid version will be available from the start. Also interesting: Porsche is also rumoured to play mind games with a COUPE version of a Panamera if the Panamera is successful.

    I hope this is enough material for a "but" and "if" discussion.



    Hi RC!

    Thank you very much for these special and detailed infos. Do you can also get infos about the front-engine-V8-2-door-Coupé (the new Porsche 928)? I've seen a few computer-styled pics of it and they where yery impressive.

    Greetings

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Oh god I hope not! it looks like a french minivan with a low roof line!



    +1

    I'd rather buy it with camo on it .



    ... and to leave the camo on it Porsche will count your wish as EXTRA for what you will have to pay for.

    Greetings

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Oh god I hope not! it looks like a french minivan with a low roof line!



    Hmmmm. They could call it the Porsche Spass. Pronounced like (Renault) Espace in Spanish-speaking countries, right?

    Should explain that "Spass" in German means "Fun".

    Re: New Porsche Panamera (4 door sedan) Rumours

    Quote:
    Phoenix_911 said:
    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Oh god I hope not! it looks like a french minivan with a low roof line!



    +1

    I'd rather buy it with camo on it .



    ... and to leave the camo on it Porsche will count your wish as EXTRA for what you will have to pay for.

    Greetings



    How about this for the ultimate marketing coup:

    1) Charge extra for "Camo delete" to people who want a car without camo.

    2) Charge extra for "Delete camo delete" to people who want the same car with camo.

    Damn, I missed my vocation! I should have gone into marketing!

     
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