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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Carlos from Spain:
    nberry:

    Can we be honest? Many of the MT enthusiast want manual because they think it makes them more manly. Its like rolling up the shirt sleeves above the biceps. There is absolutely no redeeming quality to driving a manual transmission especially in a high performance sport car. All these cars are design to be driven with dual clutches for optimal performance. MT detracts from the car performance.

    But Nick, is it really that hard to imagine that other people may have different preferences and experience and may actually enjoy shifting manually? I can see how some people enjoy the PDK more and how some enjoy the manual more, heck many, like myself, enjoy either one more depending on the situation, its not a black and white matter. 

    Nick's argument has got more holes in it than a Swiss cheese Smiley

    All the talk about optimal performance makes no sense for a car which is mainly, or even only, driven on public roads. The more optimal the performance is, the less one will be able to enjoy it on a public road.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    It's too bad that some people are not able to appreciate either tranny at the same time, manually shifting through the gears up and down through a mountain road when you are just driving for fun with friends, some people still do that sometimes, is over of the greatest things in the world (my best memories with sportscars are these), likewise trying to beat yourself and extracting the maximum performance in a track setting with the PDK can also be rewarding. Some people are missing out of they are only aware of one side. What i don't understand is talking about performance and the MT slowing you down when driving to Starbucks in S.Cal... 


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    Oh, and anyone who thinks their manliness is determined by their car, much less it's transmission... I can't even comprehend that.

    Hmm, you can't comprehend that? Whether you want to admit it or not, the type of car you drive in many ways defines you. Some are just more honest about.

    Nick, perhaps living in California this is a cultural 'norm' that you feel you understand at a more profound level than your peers. I submit that you are making some invalid assumptions about the internal value systems some of us use to define ourselves and those around us. Frankly, you should be more open to the idea that some of us purchase a car solely for the pleasure of driving it, and that how we obtain that pleasure is perhaps different than you might expect. Honestly, your comments are disappointing given that much of the time you seem to champion multiculturalism and respect for others in your posts. Perhaps you're just teasing and I'm taking the bait, but it comes across as superficial and arrogant.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

     

    that is so funny.  I won't mention politics since you were so wrong in your predictions. 

    Are you saying that you signal all the time?  Or are you saying that someone 1000 feet away is not worthy of your efforts to use a signal.  I think it merely makes my case that he was not raging at all but just trying to compliment your car and give you some execllent advice.  How close does someone need to be to be upset about you not signaling?  Do you ever signal at all or is signaling just for guys who want to look macho?  Your defense is hillarious and weak not to mention illustrative of your complete ignorance of the importance of the safety aspect of drivIng.  It is people like you who get people killed and then claim all they did was not use their turn signal, no big deal.  Well it is a huuuuge deal to those with common sense and concern about others around them on.  You are just plain wrong about not signaling and you still don't get why that guy stopped you and was kind enough to school you.  Sad you still don't get it and likely are not able to ever understanding.

    Perhaps, since I am more than a thousand miles away, you won't accept advice from me either but as a lawyer and a logical person you should be able to understand how vital it is to signal each and every time regardless of who is near you.  And it is the law mr lawyer

    The combination of not signaling AND not understanding that this is just normal common courtesy is maybe not the ideal character trait to reveal on a car forum as you flame people who enjoy driving their manual transmission cars.  

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    mcdelaug:
    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    Oh, and anyone who thinks their manliness is determined by their car, much less it's transmission... I can't even comprehend that.

    Hmm, you can't comprehend that? Whether you want to admit it or not, the type of car you drive in many ways defines you. Some are just more honest about.

    Nick, perhaps living in California this is a cultural 'norm' that you feel you understand at a more profound level than your peers. I submit that you are making some invalid assumptions about the internal value systems some of us use to define ourselves and those around us. Frankly, you should be more open to the idea that some of us purchase a car solely for the pleasure of driving it, and that how we obtain that pleasure is perhaps different than you might expect. Honestly, your comments are disappointing given that much of the time you seem to champion multiculturalism and respect for others in your posts. Perhaps you're just teasing and I'm taking the bait, but it comes across as superficial and arrogant.

    No he is serious. Sadly. He is here to pose his cars and dazzle us with his brilliant put downs of everyone who does not think like him. This is the inclusiveness liberal rave about. They expect others to include them not the other way around. I bet if you cut him off without a signal he goes nuclear.  Lane discipline - forget about it - he is the typical slow guy in the left lane of the autobahn. Smiley

    Dont forget he traded a GT3 for a Targa. That sums up a poser.  It is called projecting and liberals are the most fun to watch doing it. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Waouh Guys,

    Sounds like there is a lot of bashing goign on .....

    Honnestly, eveyrone is free to like either PDK or MT. And hopefully both are available !

    There is no better solution - the best solution is the one you appreciate and enjoy. Point period !

    MT is slower ' Who cares ? A big portion of the fun is coming with interaction.

    Having said this , I will buy it PDK-s :-)

    Enjoy your day and relax !!

    SmileySmiley

    Smiley


    --

    997 Carrera S Triple Black Sold now ... Good car 997 GT3 triple black wow what a car !!!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Jeannot:

    ...I had to teach my wife to drive an automatic....She did not know what "D" was :-)

    Smiley Same here, wife always drove stick before she met me.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    What is really disappointing is coming into a GT3 thread talking about MT vs PDK and having to read comments being thrown about Trump voters and liberals, etc... do we really have the self control of 6 year olds? ... NO POLITICS

    Also lets back off the personal attacks and tone it down a notch, most of us don't want to waste our time reading those quarrels and trashing the thread for everybody, take it outside or get a hold of yourselves, we are just talking about transmissions.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Carlos from Spain:

    What is really disappointing is coming into a GT3 thread talking about MT vs PDK and having to read comments being thrown about Trump voters and liberals, etc... do we really have the self control of 6 year olds? ... NO POLITICS

    Also lets back off the personal attacks and tone it down a notch, most of us don't want to waste our time reading those quarrels and trashing the thread for everybody, take it outside or get a hold of yourselves, we are just talking about transmissions.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    Are you sure you are referring this to me? Smiley Smiley

    I agree though...no need to fight over manual vs. DCT.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Carlos from Spain:

    What is really disappointing is coming into a GT3 thread talking about MT vs PDK and having to read comments being thrown about Trump voters and liberals, etc... do we really have the self control of 6 year olds? ... NO POLITICS

    Also lets back off the personal attacks and tone it down a notch, most of us don't want to waste our time reading those quarrels and trashing the thread for everybody, take it outside or get a hold of yourselves, we are just talking about transmissions.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    The SoCal term is trannies Smiley as this of course

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    mcdelaug:
    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    Oh, and anyone who thinks their manliness is determined by their car, much less it's transmission... I can't even comprehend that.

    Hmm, you can't comprehend that? Whether you want to admit it or not, the type of car you drive in many ways defines you. Some are just more honest about.

    Nick, perhaps living in California this is a cultural 'norm' that you feel you understand at a more profound level than your peers. I submit that you are making some invalid assumptions about the internal value systems some of us use to define ourselves and those around us. Frankly, you should be more open to the idea that some of us purchase a car solely for the pleasure of driving it, and that how we obtain that pleasure is perhaps different than you might expect. Honestly, your comments are disappointing given that much of the time you seem to champion multiculturalism and respect for others in your posts. Perhaps you're just teasing and I'm taking the bait, but it comes across as superficial and arrogant.

    My comment wasn't intended as a put down. Rather a marketing fact which manufacturers exploit to sell their products. Have you read the thread on Watches Again? Have you considered a MT Prius or Miata? 

    What I believe you are missing is people buy Porsche's and Rolexes not because they are snobbish or arrogant but as a reward for the modicum of success they have achieved in life. It's a display of success and has nothing to do of with disrespecting anyone.kiss

     


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    nberry:

    What I believe you are missing is people buy Porsche's and Rolexes not because they are snobbish or arrogant but as a reward for the modicum of success they have achieved in life. It's a display of success and has nothing to do of with disrespecting anyone.kiss

     

    Not everyone buys a Porsche for that reason.  I wouldn't care if people didn't notice me in my Porsche (I'd prefer it).  My other car (track and DD) is a freakin' Mitsubishi.  Most people think it's a crappy Asian sh!tbox (which it is in many ways, especially the interior), although it performs better than 90% or more of Porsches...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    ^ Nah... It is the driver.  Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Can anyone tell me when the RS is due?  Thanks


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Kobalt:

    ^ Nah... It is the driver.  Smiley

    You obviously have me confused with someone else Smiley


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    watt:

    Can anyone tell me when the RS is due?  Thanks

    Watt, for the longest time it was assumed that there will not be a .2GT3RS. But recently in a magazine interview, AP seemed to imply there would be one. However, since the GT2RS is slated to be introduced sometime this fall with deliveries starting next year, I don't see how Porsche has the capacity for .2GTRS.Smiley


    --

     

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    New cars are developed with PDK in mind then they slap a MT on it. It doesn't make sense. I fail to see how Americans think that having a MT on a modern car makes the driving experience more raw. Especially the ones buying a non GT Porsche and putting a MT on it. It makes no sense. Thankfully other brands have understood this and already moved on a decade ago.

    If you want raw and buy a 991 you are buying the wrong car.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    We could argue this MT vs. PDK thing forever (and we probably will).  Let's just take a moment to appreciate the fact that Porsche offers both options on many of its sports cars and acknowledge that this is the best approach to make more of us happy.  Let's not worry about someone else's choice, as long as we have one that makes us happy wink


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    The PDK/MT back and forth has, sadly, a lot in common with the sorry state of American political ''debate'. While both sides have merit in their respective positions, the nonsense each spews about the other drowns out whatever has value and precludes meaningful discourse.


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Grant:

    We could argue this MT vs. PDK thing forever (and we probably will).  Let's just take a moment to appreciate the fact that Porsche offers both options on many of its sports cars and acknowledge that this is the best approach to make more of us happy.  Let's not worry about someone else's choice, as long as we have one that makes us happy wink

    +1.   Best way is to make sure your portfolio of cars (assuming many here have more than one...) has a sample of each... if you're tired of the PDK thing, just grab your manual car next time.  We do live in a technology-rich time, where there are many choices.  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    watt:

    Can anyone tell me when the RS is due?  Thanks

    Latest rumor I heard indicates GT2 RS in Frankfurt and GT3 (.2) RS Geneva 2018. But.... nothing confirmed Smiley 

    GT3(.2 )RS said to have 4,2 l and 530-550hp.....Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    nberry:

    Can we be honest? Many of the MT enthusiast want manual because they think it makes them more manly. Its like rolling up the shirt sleeves above the biceps. There is absolutely no redeeming quality to driving a manual transmission especially in a high performance sport car. All these cars are design to be driven with dual clutches for optimal performance. MT detracts from the car performance.

    Really? Never heard of that. And I tell you what, I even put my Lexus LS in "S" shift transmission mode,because simply I enjoy revving it to red line and benefit of its glory engine in High rev.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    The farmer:
    watt:

    Can anyone tell me when the RS is due?  Thanks

    Latest rumor I heard indicates GT2 RS in Frankfurt and GT3 (.2) RS Geneva 2018. But.... nothing confirmed Smiley 

    GT3(.2 )RS said to have 4,2 l and 530-550hp.....Smiley

    Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    i am totally with you on the point that maximal performance is overrated in road driving. still, when the PDK-S in my RS bangs in the next gear in the sports-mode and does the downshift super fast (often the latter right after the former:::))))) it is real fun, even when only going to the coffee shop (i dislike starbucks though, very bad coffee). 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    nberry:
    mcdelaug:
    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    Oh, and anyone who thinks their manliness is determined by their car, much less it's transmission... I can't even comprehend that.

    Hmm, you can't comprehend that? Whether you want to admit it or not, the type of car you drive in many ways defines you. Some are just more honest about.

    Nick, perhaps living in California this is a cultural 'norm' that you feel you understand at a more profound level than your peers. I submit that you are making some invalid assumptions about the internal value systems some of us use to define ourselves and those around us. Frankly, you should be more open to the idea that some of us purchase a car solely for the pleasure of driving it, and that how we obtain that pleasure is perhaps different than you might expect. Honestly, your comments are disappointing given that much of the time you seem to champion multiculturalism and respect for others in your posts. Perhaps you're just teasing and I'm taking the bait, but it comes across as superficial and arrogant.

    My comment wasn't intended as a put down. Rather a marketing fact which manufacturers exploit to sell their products. Have you read the thread on Watches Again? Have you considered a MT Prius or Miata? 

    What I believe you are missing is people buy Porsche's and Rolexes not because they are snobbish or arrogant but as a reward for the modicum of success they have achieved in life. It's a display of success and has nothing to do of with disrespecting anyone.kiss

    Actually I owned a Miata before my 987S, it was manual, and it was very fun to drive. Unfortunately my wife suffered an accident in it. We decided to buy a car that had more advanced safety features but still had an engaging driver experience. Hence the 987S. After 110K miles, we got the 981GTS.

    I am certain some people do buy sports cars as some type of psychological validation. But that's not why all of us do. I completely understand Grant's position, I too would prefer that my Porsche not attract attention. But I don't' have time or expertise to put together my own vehicle that has a good driving experience, I needed an "off the shelf" solution. Porsche provides that.

    Your generalizations are probably applicable for most of the people you encounter during your day, but I don't think they are as applicable here.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    nberry:
    mcdelaug:
    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    What I believe you are missing is people buy Porsche's and Rolexes not because they are snobbish or arrogant but as a reward for the modicum of success they have achieved in life. It's a display of success and has nothing to do of with disrespecting anyone.kiss

    Oh boy, whats the meaning of success? money? So if I buy a porsche from junk yard for 5k,and put 2k to fix it, and you saw me driving on street, you call me successful person  because I'm driving porsche? 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    martini964:
    nberry:
    mcdelaug:
    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    What I believe you are missing is people buy Porsche's and Rolexes not because they are snobbish or arrogant but as a reward for the modicum of success they have achieved in life. It's a display of success and has nothing to do of with disrespecting anyone.kiss

    Oh boy, whats the meaning of success? money? So if I buy a porsche from junk yard for 5k,and put 2k to fix it, and you saw me driving on street, you call me successful person  because I'm driving porsche? 

    As i posted earlier, this concept of a car demonstrating a measure of success and defining the owner is not readily accepted by some. Apparently, they are not comfortable enough in within their skin to acknowledge it. Granted some do not harbor strong feeling about it but nevertheless it is there. Otherwise, all the luxury car manufacturers would be out of business.Smiley

    As to your question, if buying a Porsche for 5K and driving it makes you feel successful then that is what it is. As to how other may see you I cannot answer that question.Smiley


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    In bygone times the European upper classes eschewed public flaunting of wealth so as not to foment resentment among the masses below. Royalty periodically demonstrated wealth publically to project power and rally national pride. America embraced this philosophy among its upper classes that had, or desired, ties to their European counterparts. The modern American parvenu typically have no such qualms about displaying the symbols of their arrival, and in fact in the modern age of instant access concealment and discretion require considerable efffort. A good case can also  be made that the have-nots are deliberately agitated against the haves by the political classes (that the political class is dominated by haves is typically lost on the majority of highly agitated), and that attempting to show any discretion through the choice of a car, or its color, is moot at best. Station in society used to be telegraphed by one's speech and use of language, dress, and manners. Qualities disdained by contemporary society as elitist.  


    --

     

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    Having lived many years on both sides of the Atlantic on different places on each side I can say without a doubt that clearly wealth is much more openly displayed in the US than in Europe, actually that extends to South America too. And it's also more directly associated with the idea of success and status than in EU were other factors (academic education, social family, influence, etc) weigh in to a greater degree to curve that.

    At the same time the display of wealth is more accepted and tolerated than in Europe were is can harbor more resentment and negativity from the lower classes but also its a sign of poor taste and nuevo-rich lower class by the upper class.

    I believe it all due to but only cultural ideosyncrasies but also political with US being more capitalist.

    So what Nick is referring to with cars used as a display of success is somewhat more so in US than in Europe, and more so in new US than in old US, i.e more in places like California than the upper East coast for example.


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3

    +1 for the MT camp as well, and not coming from an American. 

    I find the interaction it offers (on a weekend car) far outweighs the loss of speed. People rightly comment modern cars only interact at 9/10ths, speeds irrelevant on the public road. Well I find MT peels back a layer of isolation. When it's a real slick box with lovely shift action there's also that tactile experience never to be equalled by flipping a paddle.

    All imo of course.


    --

    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad


     
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