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    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Whoopsy:
    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    I was talking about the cars I drove in Finland. 

    Sport or Sport Plus active?

     

    Doesn't matter the mode, the turbos are on/off switch. You know the car's engine is shit when even the pros have trouble modulating the power on ice and spin out. My instructors are no slouch, they are factory GT3R racers testing the GT3R on the Ring right now.


    --

     

     

     

     

    Turbo engines require a certain way of driving (different "style" of throttle usage), so I am not surprised. I always call this different style "preemptive adaptive" throttle usage. Smiley Not that I like it...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    RC:
    Whoopsy:
    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    I was talking about the cars I drove in Finland. 

    Sport or Sport Plus active?

     

    Doesn't matter the mode, the turbos are on/off switch. You know the car's engine is shit when even the pros have trouble modulating the power on ice and spin out. My instructors are no slouch, they are factory GT3R racers testing the GT3R on the Ring right now.


    --

     

     

     

     

    Turbo engines require a certain way of driving (different "style" of throttle usage), so I am not surprised. I always call this different style "preemptive adaptive" throttle usage. Smiley Not that I like it...

    Almost sounds as if the e-throttle on the C2S was following a different adaptive program than the one on the C4S.  Since the system learns over time, different driver inputs earlier could account for some of the differences noted.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Whoopsy:
    Come to think of it, I think it's the driven front wheels that's the saving grace. Less sensitive to throttle input as the excess power is routed to the front wheels and control the drifts. 

    Yes, that makes more sense than the possibility that one car's 'S' engine was different than another's.  The lower the friction on your road, the more that you will feel the difference that AWD makes, as long as the front-rear diff is sending power appropriately to the front wheels to balance rear traction loss.  

    But what is interesting to me is that your ice experiences suggest that the Carrera S is no longer the pure handling choice for those who used to like RWD feel and balance - it sounds like the turbo motor has messed this up enough that the 4S versions now offer more usable driving experience, even for those who previously swore by RWD.     


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    4trac:
    it sounds like the turbo motor has messed this up enough that the 4S versions now offer more usable driving experience, even for those who previously swore by RWD.     

    Guess those people need to buy Spyder/GT4, GT3, or 911R (while NA lasts)...


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Grant:
    4trac:
    it sounds like the turbo motor has messed this up enough that the 4S versions now offer more usable driving experience, even for those who previously swore by RWD.     

    Guess those people need to buy GT4 or GT3 (while NA lasts)...

    Sure, but the point was that you could have some nice RWD feel, in a standard 911, without going into the GT cars which lose a good deal of the daily usability (witness the people selling their GT3s...).  After all they have spent many years taming the rear-engine balance issue to the point where the RWD 911 is wonderfully balanced - at least with the NA motors.  Ironically when we bought our 911, I wanted to go for the 4S as I thought we might push the season a bit longer with it... my wife overruled me as she prefers RWD feel for a sports car, and I am now glad she did.  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    4trac:
    Grant:
    4trac:
    it sounds like the turbo motor has messed this up enough that the 4S versions now offer more usable driving experience, even for those who previously swore by RWD.     

    Guess those people need to buy GT4 or GT3 (while NA lasts)...

    Sure, but the point was that you could have some nice RWD feel, in a standard 911, without going into the GT cars which lose a good deal of the daily usability (witness the people selling their GT3s...).  After all they have spent many years taming the rear-engine balance issue to the point where the RWD 911 is wonderfully balanced - at least with the NA motors.  Ironically when we bought our 911, I wanted to go for the 4S as I thought we might push the season a bit longer with it... my wife overruled me as she prefers RWD feel for a sports car, and I am now glad she did.  

    Not disagreeing, just describing the current landscape...  GT cars have become better daily drivers with good balance and C2S has become less of a "driver's car" than it has been.


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Grant:
     

    Not disagreeing, just describing the current landscape...  GT cars have become better daily drivers with good balance and C2S has become less of a "driver's car" than it has been.

    Bingo. So where is the 4 seater PDK convertible "driver" car?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    My sales guy  just came back from Le Castellet  where he drove a C4S against the Cup's . They had training sessions .

    He was close to the Cup's, about 2 sec behind the last ones  !!!!  never had that happen before with any of the Carreras . 

     


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Wow! That is impressive.

    That long straight may be part of the explanation.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Grant:
     

    Not disagreeing, just describing the current landscape...  GT cars have become better daily drivers with good balance and C2S has become less of a "driver's car" than it has been.

    C2/S is slowly turning into a 'Google' it drives itself car, an all electric (mission-e) car is in the works and by 2050 Johnny Cab will takeover Smiley

    - 911 Base / S
    H6 / 3.4L + 3.8L > H6 (T) 3.0L

    - Cayenne S / GTS
    V8 / 4.8L > V6 (T) 3.6L

    - Boxster
    H6 / 2.7L + 3.4L > H4 (T) 2.0L + 2.5L

    - Carrera GT > 918 Spyder
    V10 / 5.7L > V8 (Hybrid) 4.6L

    This is exactly what they are doing Smiley


     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    SciFrog:
    Grant:
     

    Not disagreeing, just describing the current landscape...  GT cars have become better daily drivers with good balance and C2S has become less of a "driver's car" than it has been.

    Bingo. So where is the 4 seater PDK convertible "driver" car?

    Smiley Smiley In our dreams I guess... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Gnil:

    My sales guy  just came back from Le Castellet  where he drove a C4S against the Cup's . They had training sessions .

    He was close to the Cup's, about 2 sec behind the last ones  !!!!  never had that happen before with any of the Carreras . 

    Indeed, the new facelift has an amazing chassis setup and the additional torque certainly adds to the game. Smiley

    After a few rounds however, I guess the Cups would have been faster... Also, I don't know how the surface temperatures were in Le Castellet recently... The C4S on road tires certainly would have benefited from colder temperatures.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I found this nice video comparing the exhausts (standard, PSE off, PSE on) of the new 991.

    Enjoy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chd2u-Jl6MY

    Woshhhhhhhhhhh


    --
    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    For sure I won't buy it for the sound experience. I've also heard that in 2017 the sport exhaust won't be available anymore. Can someone confirm this? 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    The standard exhaust almost made me cry....


    --

    1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2014 Mercedes A45 AMG - 2013 Mini Cooper S - Cayman GT4 (soon)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I'd be on the market for a 991 today I will definitely get a 2014 or 2015 Carrera S or 4S with PSE, 40% cheaper than the new model...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Mikla:

    The standard exhaust almost made me cry....

    My inmediate thought was how can those responsible consider this exhaust sound acceptable and give it a green light for production???

    It's to such a point that its insulting to us Porsche customers if they think they can do it and get away with it while offereing barely decent exhaust sound as a cost option if you want to fix it.

    It cant be called a sport exhaust option anymore, the sport exhaust is barely a "normal" sound for a sportscar, and the stock exhaust is a "minivan" sound standard option.

    They used the fact that turbo engines sound worse to turn an 3-4k option into a price markup since you are obligated to get it by offering such a pathetic standard sound with the turbo engine as an excuse.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Mikla:

    The standard exhaust almost made me cry....

    +1 SmileySmiley


    --


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Sounds surprisingly good to my ears but then again I don't have a strong opinion about the subject.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbLrfNV3Kc4


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Carlos from Spain:
    Mikla:

    The standard exhaust almost made me cry....

    My inmediate thought was how can those responsible consider this exhaust sound acceptable and give it a green light for production???

    It's to such a point that its insulting to us Porsche customers if they think they can do it and get away with it while offereing barely decent exhaust sound as a cost option if you want to fix it.

    It cant be called a sport exhaust option anymore, the sport exhaust is barely a "normal" sound for a sportscar, and the stock exhaust is a "minivan" sound standard option.

    They used the fact that turbo engines sound worse to turn an 3-4k option into a price markup since you are obligated to get it by offering such a pathetic standard sound with the turbo engine as an excuse.

    same thing they did with the sports chrono option...no sports chrono, the 2nd hand value of your car goes down the drain Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I'm not so stressed out about the regular exhaust sound. BTW, that's the sound from outside; the question is how does it sound inside (of course, that depends on where one falls on the poseur scale...)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    KMM:

    I'm not so stressed out about the regular exhaust sound. BTW, that's the sound from outside; the question is how does it sound inside (of course, that depends on where one falls on the poseur scale...)

     

    I am talking about the sound inside the cabin. When  I test drove the 991.2 S with PSE inside the cabin sound was rather disappointing. By the way I don't care about the sound outside as I don't really get to enjoy it unless I move to the convertible crowd. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2tZa3qygV4

     

    I did not understand a word he said, yet somehow he makes total sense. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    DocMo:
    KMM:

    I'm not so stressed out about the regular exhaust sound. BTW, that's the sound from outside; the question is how does it sound inside (of course, that depends on where one falls on the poseur scale...)

     

    I am talking about the sound inside the cabin. When  I test drove the 991.2 S with PSE inside the cabin sound was rather disappointing. By the way I don't care about the sound outside as I don't really get to enjoy it unless I move to the convertible crowd. 

    +1.. It's probably ok from outside, but I prefer having something nice to listen to inside. I found the inside very muted unless I wound the windows down completely and the sound had something to bounce off.


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 2011 987S, 1964 Type 1


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    graphite grey looks superb in the cabriolet


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Poor quality of exhaust sound seems to be Porsches Achilles heel. They either need a new engine design, a new turbo system or customers with total hearing loss.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I believe they know what they are doing and the sound suits the masses. Us on RT and journalists are never easy to please, but we are statistically all outliers  


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    JimFlat6:

    Poor quality of exhaust sound seems to be Porsches Achilles heel. They either need a new engine design, a new turbo system or customers with total hearing loss.

     

    In person outside the car the new turbo engines are very disappointing, but then again even the McLaren 570S sounds bad too.

    Inside the car the new turbo engines are not bad however.


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Whoopsy:
    JimFlat6:

    Poor quality of exhaust sound seems to be Porsches Achilles heel. They either need a new engine design, a new turbo system or customers with total hearing loss.

     

    In person outside the car the new turbo engines are very disappointing, but then again even the McLaren 570S sounds bad too.

    Inside the car the new turbo engines are not bad however.


    I find this a very strange sound strategy.

    Either I like to have a (relatively) quiet sportscar inside and out, like the 997, 991 Turbo variants for example or I want to hear something of the car from the outside as well.

    But disappointing outside and all show inside is the most stupid thing you can do concerning the sound for a sportscar IMO. Smiley


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     


     
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