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    Re: AMG GT R

    noone1:

    The point is that neither Tesla or some G7 Alpine BMW is a good track car. They're mediocre at best. In the real world though, the Tesla stomps that BMW in every day usage as far as performance goes. As a bonus, it does autopilot and stuff like that reasonable well.

    The interior on a BMW is better. 

     

    Hmm, autopilot........

    The BMW Alpine B7 doesn't have that kill the driver function.Smiley

    Fit and finish, material usage, roominess, comfort, technology, performance (outside of straight line drag), where did the Tesla finish ahead of the Bimmer again?

     


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    Re: AMG GT R

    It finishes ahead in one of the most important metrics you overlook -- people actually want them.

    An Alpina is definitely not ahead in technology LOL.


    Re: AMG GT R

    noone1:

    It finishes ahead in one of the most important metrics you overlook -- people actually want them.

    An Alpina is definitely not ahead in technology LOL.

     

    How many cars a year does Tesla sell? And how many BMW sells? Case closed I believed. People WANT more Toyotas than Tesla, people wants more Hyundai than Teslas, people WANTS more Mercedes than Teslas. Hell, people WANTS more Porsches than Teslas. 

    Until Tesla sells enough cars to compete with the mainstream manufacturers, it will always be a boutique manufacturer, small time manufacturer, or some manufacturers that's on death row, like, the same level as a Hudson, AMC, Plymouth, Mercury, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Mosler. Callaway. Saleen,  Saab, RUF, Alpina, (which, btw, can be considered a manufacturer in Europe.)  Maybe it will survive and be like Volvo. 

    BMW/Apline has more taste than Tesla than to simply slap a 17in computer monitor inside a car, and they, and just about anyone else prefer to perfect a 'autopilot' technology before introducing it to kill the buyers. You know, that's bad for business when you kill the purchaser. 

    Full disclosure, I have a Model 3 on order, but I didn't get in early and I think there are like 400k 'orders' in front of me, so I will likely get my car in 2050 or around there. it's ok, cause I might be death by then or Tesla will be death by then.

     


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    Re: AMG GT R

    So what you're saying is that no one buys Alpina B7s, right?


    Re: AMG GT R

    noone1:

    So what you're saying is that no one buys Alpina B7s, right?

     

    Good question!

    All I know is that more people buying BMWs a year than Tesla ever. I suppose thats a good metric!


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    Re: AMG GT R

    Whoopsy

    Hmm, autopilot........

    The BMW Alpine B7 doesn't have that kill the driver function.Smiley

    Smiley although for some tesla drivers autopilot may even be an improvement over the driver Smiley

    Fit and finish, material usage, roominess, comfort, technology, performance (outside of straight line drag), where did the Tesla finish ahead of the Bimmer again?

    In no one’s mind... See what I did there? Smiley​​​​​


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: AMG GT R

    Carlos you are killing me wink


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    Re: AMG GT R

    Just drove the latest Model S. Not saying it's worth $100K, but a B7 sure as fuck isn't worth anywhere near $150K. I'd rather have the Tesla for sure and when it comes to things like passing or accelerating from normal speeds, a B7 won't even see which way a Tesla went.

    Autopilot alone defeats pretty much every amenity offered by a 7 series BMW. It handles fine as well in normal roads. I had to go way over the speed limit to make it understeer. Doing this constantly would no doubt have gotten me a ticket in no time.

    Touchscreen needs an update in terms of web browser response, but hey, this thing is like 5-6 years old. A 6 year old BMW has shit infotainment.

    Not saying Tesla will be successful when other companies start making similar performing EVs, but as it stands, they don't. Interior was good enough for what will ultimately either come way down in price or go way up in quality as battery costs go down.


    Re: AMG GT R

    noone1:

    Just drove the latest Model S. Not saying it's worth $100K, but a B7 sure as fuck isn't worth anywhere near $150K. I'd rather have the Tesla for sure and when it comes to things like passing or accelerating from normal speeds, a B7 won't even see which way a Tesla went.

    Autopilot alone defeats pretty much every amenity offered by a 7 series BMW. It handles fine as well in normal roads. I had to go way over the speed limit to make it understeer. Doing this constantly would no doubt have gotten me a ticket in no time.

    Touchscreen needs an update in terms of web browser response, but hey, this thing is like 5-6 years old. A 6 year old BMW has shit infotainment.

    Not saying Tesla will be successful when other companies start making similar performing EVs, but as it stands, they don't. Interior was good enough for what will ultimately either come way down in price or go way up in quality as battery costs go down.

    Please note: this is the AMG GTR thread Smiley

    P.S.: One last remark on Tesla as I just found this topic here again - drove in another one as a passenger this weekend and it felt (again) super cheap and low quality. The interior quality is just of a very low standard. Ride quality very poor. And the interior noise is only "quiet" at very low speeds. A bit faster and you don't hear any difference to a good sedan given the tire and wind noise. Comparing a cheap product like a Tesla S to a BMW 7 series, S Class, Audi A8 seems like a joke to me. Sorry to say. These cars are worlds apart in terms of quality and functionality. There is a reason why Tesla has problems in selling the model S and X recently, I assume... More and more people might realize the obvious as the Tesla "trend", its "newness" is wearing off.


    Re: AMG GT R

    We have some of the worst roads in the entire country and the ride quality was perfectly fine for me.

    I really don't see how a 7, S, or A8 is worlds apart in functionality unless you mean they are high quality and low functionality.


    Re: AMG GT R

    noone1:

    We have some of the worst roads in the entire country and the ride quality was perfectly fine for me.

    I really don't see how a 7, S, or A8 is worlds apart in functionality unless you mean they are high quality and low functionality.

    It is all a question of the benchmark - if you drive the premium products and then switch to a Tesla you will be just shocked. The car as such is Ok, but only in an isolated view (or comparing it with middle class products) Smiley But let's continue in the Tesla thread Smiley


    Re: AMG GT R

    MKSGR:
    Please note: this is the AMG GTR thread Smiley

    P.S.: One last remark on Tesla as I just found this topic here again - drove in another one as a passenger this weekend and it felt (again) super cheap and low quality. The interior quality is just of a very low standard. Ride quality very poor. And the interior noise is only "quiet" at very low speeds. A bit faster and you don't hear any difference to a good sedan given the tire and wind noise. Comparing a cheap product like a Tesla S to a BMW 7 series, S Class, Audi A8 seems like a joke to me. Sorry to say. These cars are worlds apart in terms of quality and functionality. There is a reason why Tesla has problems in selling the model S and X recently, I assume... More and more people might realize the obvious as the Tesla "trend", its "newness" is wearing off.


    Sorry for OT, but couldn't resist in normal rennteam fashion Smiley!

    Why continue to evaluate a Tesla from the passenger ride in a worn out old Taxi? Smiley You need to realize that much happen each week at the production line with Tesla. Actually a lot more in the same time frame compared with traditional manufacturer with 4-year cycles and minor updates each MY. Tesla make changes all the time. They for example just updated all the Autopilot hardware for productions in August and a completely redone back seat just to mention a few things. And btw, it's not that I get a very nice luxury feeling riding in a 4 year old Merc taxi with low-end leather....

    And regarding comparison with other cars... I've been driving the most of the latest fully loaded German cars including new Panamera Turbo, latest E-class Merc, new BMW G31 and so on. And I would seriously pick a Tesla everytime. It's mainly the drivetrain and tech that feels so outdated in comparison.

    Much of my reasons are well described by Thomas from Autogefühl in this recent review of a P100D.

     

     


    Re: AMG GT R

    noone1:

    It finishes ahead in one of the most important metrics you overlook -- people actually want them.

     

    Not me. Smiley

    I was quite surprised to see so many luxury BMW 7 series, Mercedes S class (lots of S class Coupes as well) and tons of Lamborghinis, Ferraris and even two R8 V10 Plus in Las Vegas. Saw two Tesla S and one Tesla X during my whole stay there and those two Tesla S were permanently parked in front of the Aria hotel, maybe rental cars?!

    Was quite a surprise, I expected to see tons of Tesla cars in Nevada but... Smiley


    An Alpina is definitely not ahead in technology LOL.

    Driving fun? Hell yes. Technology? Alpina is basically BMW's house tuner.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: AMG GT R

    Sorry for perpetuating the off topic tesla content.  But an interesting review by Chris Harris on the Model S.  There is some 911 R content:

    Chris Harris Drives: Tesla Model S P100D


    Re: AMG GT R

    LOL

    A BMW by no means is easy to put into launch control mode, for some it takes like almost a minute to get all the settings right. But this Tesla is jus ridiculous, by the time the owner find all the buttons to press, then to hold, then wait for that 10 mins, anything else that are drag racing a Tesla would have completed the run and gone home and showered already. 

    Here is a better idea for testing cars. 

    For acceleration runs, the time need to input all the settings needed to be counted as part of the time. For say BMWs, the 0-60 would have gone from 4 seconds to 44 seconds, Tesla would be from 2.whatever to 10 mins and 2 point whatever.

    For Porsche? It stays exactly how Porsche quoted them to be. Absolutely fool proof and easy way to enter launch control. One foot on the brake, one foot on the gas, let go of the brake and boom! you are gone. 

     


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    Re: AMG GT R

    lexs4:

    Sorry for perpetuating the off topic tesla content.  But an interesting review by Chris Harris on the Model S.  There is some 911 R content:

    Chris Harris Drives: Tesla Model S P100D

    So I guess that will refute claims that its not good or impressive. The car handles fine, it's super quick, ride is good, technology beyond everyone else, nice and quiet.

    Alpina B7? Yea, no thanks.


    Re: AMG GT R

    Whoopsy:

    LOL

    A BMW by no means is easy to put into launch control mode, for some it takes like almost a minute to get all the settings right. But this Tesla is jus ridiculous, by the time the owner find all the buttons to press, then to hold, then wait for that 10 mins, anything else that are drag racing a Tesla would have completed the run and gone home and showered already. 

    Here is a better idea for testing cars. 

    For acceleration runs, the time need to input all the settings needed to be counted as part of the time. For say BMWs, the 0-60 would have gone from 4 seconds to 44 seconds, Tesla would be from 2.whatever to 10 mins and 2 point whatever.

    For Porsche? It stays exactly how Porsche quoted them to be. Absolutely fool proof and easy way to enter launch control. One foot on the brake, one foot on the gas, let go of the brake and boom! you are gone. 

     



    The funny thing is that it is just the opposite. The Tesla doesn't need any single button press or engagement of launch controls or being in the right rpm. You just push the throttle and way you go instantly and it will beat anything out there from stand still.

    What Harris did in the video was just ridiculous. He used the "Max battery" power feature and the Ludicrous+ easter egg. What this does is increase the 0-100km/h time with 0,1 seconds. The car does 0-100km/h in 2,8 sek without this mode and 2,7 sek with it engaged. And even if you wan't to use this mode you can activate it with 2 clicks at any time and it will be enabled until the next time you turn off the car. All other launch controls including Porsche are over complicated and take time, and not the least needs to be engaged on every launch...


    Re: AMG GT R

    Step on brake step on gas let go of brake is too complicated and takes time?


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    Re: AMG GT R

    Whoopsy:

    Step on brake step on gas let go of brake is too complicated and takes time?


    Not complicated, but more complicated than launching a Tesla. You don't need to hold your foot on the brake. Just relax and idle with the right foot on the throttle and push it and instantly the thing flies.

    And best of all... you do it in 100% silence, with no drama and without any stress from the engine being reved up at a constant 4000 rpm (or whatever it is in LC-mode). I think the LC will disengage also if you don't launch within a certain amount of seconds, just to make sure the gearbox isn't falling apart...


    Re: AMG GT R

    Tesla also updated the Ludicrous Mode so that you can have that power level available outside of launch control.

    Yeah, what Harris did was overkill. It's also entirely possible that the 10 min battery conditioning thing was due to the sitting. I'm not sure, but it might have not needed any conditioning if it was just cruising around prior to that and already up to temp etc.

    But yeah, you don't really need launch control in a Tesla. Press and go.


    Re: AMG GT R

    lukestern:
    Whoopsy:

    Step on brake step on gas let go of brake is too complicated and takes time?


    Not complicated, but more complicated than launching a Tesla. You don't need to hold your foot on the brake. Just relax and idle with the right foot on the throttle and push it and instantly the thing flies.

    And best of all... you do it in 100% silence, with no drama and without any stress from the engine being reved up at a constant 4000 rpm (or whatever it is in LC-mode). I think the LC will disengage also if you don't launch within a certain amount of seconds, just to make sure the gearbox isn't falling apart...

     

    Hmm, correct me if I am wrong, but Tesla doesn't need idling? At rest like any other car the drive put the foot on the brake and that's it? So it's basically like a normal car, get off the brake and get on the gas and vroooooom! no?

    That's no different than doing Porsche's launch control. 

     


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    Re: AMG GT R

    Whoopsy:
    lukestern:
    Whoopsy:

    Step on brake step on gas let go of brake is too complicated and takes time?


    Not complicated, but more complicated than launching a Tesla. You don't need to hold your foot on the brake. Just relax and idle with the right foot on the throttle and push it and instantly the thing flies.

    And best of all... you do it in 100% silence, with no drama and without any stress from the engine being reved up at a constant 4000 rpm (or whatever it is in LC-mode). I think the LC will disengage also if you don't launch within a certain amount of seconds, just to make sure the gearbox isn't falling apart...

     

    Hmm, correct me if I am wrong, but Tesla doesn't need idling? At rest like any other car the drive put the foot on the brake and that's it? So it's basically like a normal car, get off the brake and get on the gas and vroooooom! no?

    That's no different than doing Porsche's launch control. 


    It is possible to select different modes actually. You can either have the car with "Creep mode" On or Off. If creep mode is ON the car will start to roll out slowly if you let off the brake pedal, just in the similar manner like you have D-mode in an automatic car. If you have the Tesla with creep mode OFF, the car will just stand still in D-mode even if you don't have the brake pedal pressed down.

    But there is also a mode in between. If you have the car with "Creep mode" ON and push the brake to stop a semi P-mode will be engaged. From this mode you can just push the throttle max and get full acceleration and there is no delay dis-engaging P-mode like there are on other cars. E.g. if you stand still on a hill. So there is actually no need for using the brake while launching.

    See this picture for the setting:


    Re: AMG GT R

    noone1:

    Tesla also updated the Ludicrous Mode so that you can have that power level available outside of launch control.

    Yeah, what Harris did was overkill. It's also entirely possible that the 10 min battery conditioning thing was due to the sitting. I'm not sure, but it might have not needed any conditioning if it was just cruising around prior to that and already up to temp etc.

    But yeah, you don't really need launch control in a Tesla. Press and go.


    Having driven a P100D for quite a while I can answer on that one...

    The "Max battery" power doesn't make a noticeable difference based on my testings. You can wake up in the morning, jump into the car and push it full throttle immediately and it will do 0-100km/h sub 3 sek.

    And yes, there is no need for any specific launch mode, just push and away you go. Software was updated OTA a few months back just like you mentioned.

    Most reviewers are all over the place with misinformation etc, but I don't blame them. This is a new car and there are lot's of things that are different compared to other cars.

    Another example is Harris comment about the car braking rather hard when he let of the throttle at speed. In the settings it is possible to turn this off completely and the car will sail instead. But after a while when getting used to regenerative braking this is the best feature since slice bread. Driving around you merely use the brake pedal, no brake dust and no wear of the brakes and it makes the driving very relaxing.


    Re: AMG GT R

    I thought this was an AMG GTR thread... smiley


    --

    991 GT3 RS / Gone: Cayman GT4, 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8, 997.2 GT3, Lotus Exige S, 964 Turbo 3.3


    Re: AMG GT R

    GoHardGT3RS:

    I thought this was an AMG GTR thread... smiley


    This is rennteam, right? No threads in here are on topic Smiley

    Sorry, my apologies for the few last Tesla posts. But at least don't blame me for starting it, I just couldn't resist to join in Smiley


    Re: AMG GT R

    After the R8 infections, no thread are safe! smiley


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    Re: AMG GT R

    Whoopsy:

    After the R8 infections, no thread are safe! smiley

    SmileySmileySmiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: AMG GT R

    Whoopsy:

    After the R8 infections, no thread are safe! smiley

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: AMG GT R

    Whoopsy:

    After the R8 infections, no thread are safe! smiley

    SmileySmiley


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: AMG GT R

    I agree with Nick - the menu in the video and the easter egg function is just insane. But - as lukstern says, in reality it takes just a second to press ludicrous. 

    Two thoughts:

    1. I would like to see the test against a Carrera S, which is the much more common 911 than a 991R
    2. You could easily recognize that in the first test the Tesla was faster but in the second run it couldn't be repeated (even after cooling down the Batteries). My experience from driving the Tesla several occasions. You have only one drag start per charge. After that the car is getting significantly slower when throttling. 

    And - to stay in the thread-line. I would like to see the Tesla Model X 100P against the R8 angry

     


     
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