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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    For the 992 interior, it would be great to see Porsche take note of ISUK's suggestion posted on Rennteam...

    ISUK:

    I'd have loved to see a return to an original 911 dash layout with a purposeful minimalist look that enhanced the feeling of interior cabin space. It could have utilised the basic design of the 918 with the infotainment focused on the driver, removing the centre console stack altogether and laying out the various controls for the gear shift, infotainment, heated seats, HVAC, PSE etc on a flatter stylish console on the centre tunnel. I guess the luxury GT market is not ready for this though.

    1512902224217Dash 992.JPG

    Link: http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/385572719/Re_992_Next_911_generation_20182019/page1.html#p385572719

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    If that’s the 992 interior, it is unreal how they could managed to make the bad 991 interior even worse... but will have to see in real...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    lukestern:

    @Carlos - Do you think anyone will manage this center console while not taking a glance before pushing a button? This will be the same reality in the 992 I assume. I would actually say it is worse than in the Tesla, because these buttons are located way down. At least with the Tesla screen you can have an eye on the road at the same time since the screen is placed much higher up.

    The above implementation is a total mess, neither modern nor old. There is a ridiculous stick shift in the middle surrounded by touch screen...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    If that’s the 992 interior, it is unreal how they could managed to make the bad 991 interior even worse... but will have to see in real...

    It's not..

    This is the 992 interior...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I would prefer this version of the 992 interior for GT and RS models...

    1527715158601image.jpeg

    ...retro-tastic!  1527611592420image.gif


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    The above implementation is a total mess, neither modern nor old. There is a ridiculous stick shift in the middle surrounded by touch screen...

    +1

    A total mess Smiley Why even bother with the stick shift? Smiley Back to the drawing board...


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    lukestern:

    @Carlos - Do you think anyone will manage this center console while not taking a glance before pushing a button? This will be the same reality in the 992 I assume. I would actually say it is worse than in the Tesla, because these buttons are located way down. At least with the Tesla screen you can have an eye on the road at the same time since the screen is placed much higher up.

     

    Exactly what I had been telling Porsche since the 918 that touch screen is a bad idea in cars period.

    One cannot feel where the buttons are, the mere act of feeling for the buttons already activated them.

    In my Cayenne, arguably one car with the most buttons around the centre console, I don't even need to look to figure out where each buttons is. I know the general location and the order of them, I put my hand there and feel for the individual buttons and voila, got the function I want without looking. 

    For ease of using car buttons, the first gen Bangle 7 has no peers. That one idirve knob can be used to basically control everything via the screen mounted on top. 

    If touch screens are really that great, why don't Elon put the gas and brake pedals on the touch screen too?


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    +1 exactly


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    lukestern:

    @Carlos - Do you think anyone will manage this center console while not taking a glance before pushing a button? This will be the same reality in the 992 I assume. I would actually say it is worse than in the Tesla, because these buttons are located way down. At least with the Tesla screen you can have an eye on the road at the same time since the screen is placed much higher up.

     

    Exactly what I had been telling Porsche since the 918 that touch screen is a bad idea in cars period.

    One cannot feel where the buttons are, the mere act of feeling for the buttons already activated them.

    In my Cayenne, arguably one car with the most buttons around the centre console, I don't even need to look to figure out where each buttons is. I know the general location and the order of them, I put my hand there and feel for the individual buttons and voila, got the function I want without looking. 

    For ease of using car buttons, the first gen Bangle 7 has no peers. That one idirve knob can be used to basically control everything via the screen mounted on top. 

    If touch screens are really that great, why don't Elon put the gas and brake pedals on the touch screen too?

    Don't give him any ideas!  It's surprising that he hasn't moved steering wheel functionality to the infernal center touch pad.  

    Returning to the subject of technology overload in automobiles, we will take delivery of a 2019 Audi A6 this autumn as a replacement for an A6 in the stable.  It will be an interesting experiment as this will be the car used by a non-tech savvy individual but alas, one was too late to specify the desired options on the outgoing car. 

    As a public service to SciFrog and Noone1, one will not be reposting articles on a couple of autopilot related incidents over the past couple of weeks...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:
     

    If touch screens are really that great, why don't Elon put the gas and brake pedals on the touch screen too?

    Don't give him any ideas!  It's surprising that he hasn't moved steering wheel functionality to the infernal center touch pad.  

    This types of comments is just so unnecessary. You criticize  noone1 for being childish etc, but what do you honestly think about your own comments? Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    lukestern:
    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:
     

    If touch screens are really that great, why don't Elon put the gas and brake pedals on the touch screen too?

    Don't give him any ideas!  It's surprising that he hasn't moved steering wheel functionality to the infernal center touch pad.  

    This types of comments is just so unnecessary. You criticize  noone1 for being childish etc, but what do you honestly think about your own comments? Smiley

    If you’re offended, one is sorry. That post was not made in seriousness, it was made merely in reference to Nick’s post.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Having touch screens in cars is like designing high heels like these:

    highchair-shoes.jpg

    images.jpeg

    lady-gaga-wearing-tall-platform-shoes-falling-590bes110410.jpg

     

    Just like Lady Gaga, it's an accident waiting to happen.

    Using a touch screen phone is very different than using a touch screen in the car.

    A car is a 2 ton moving object travelling at a good speed, every second not looking on the road means a few 10s of metre gone. One need all the attention one can get to operate a car safely.

    The Americans invented self driving technology just so they don't have to pay attention to driving. Go figure.


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    All modern luxury cars have touch screens, should we start banning them on every car? Actually the screens themselves are a distraction, they should go entirely... along with the radio and navigation angel


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    You guys better stock up while you can. Manuals are more or less dead. NA will die next, followed by ICEs in general. Touch screens, pads, and voice commands will replace most buttons after that, and then ultimately in the not too distant future cars will be all self-driving.

    BTW, the is really no need for more than a couple buttons or knobs in a modern car. All dashes are digital nowadays and can show any information. All you need is a multi-touch touch pad with gestures and some voice controls.

    Want to turn the volume up and down? Two finger swipe up or down. Want to set the climate controls? Say "Set air condition to 70 degrees".

    The point is not that touch screens should replace buttons, it's simply that buttons aren't needed and can be replaced by a combination of touchscreens, touch pads, and voice commands. There is no reason not to have a touch screen today since they offer good experiences for things like maps, web browsing, typing, etc. There is however not much of a good reason to keep buttons around much longer. Porsche's center console is a shit show and a complete mess. Porsche is so insane with their button usage that they have a stick with buttons on it.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    This interior looks good to my eyes...  1527611592420image.gif

    1527748436562image.jpeg

    ...perfect for driving!  image.gif


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Smileynoone1:

    You guys better stock up while you can. Manuals are more or less dead. NA will die next, followed by ICEs in general. Touch screens, pads, and voice commands will replace most buttons after that, and then ultimately in the not too distant future cars will be all self-driving.

    BTW, the is really no need for more than a couple buttons or knobs in a modern car. All dashes are digital nowadays and can show any information. All you need is a multi-touch touch pad with gestures and some voice controls.

    Want to turn the volume up and down? Two finger swipe up or down. Want to set the climate controls? Say "Set air condition to 70 degrees".

    The point is not that touch screens should replace buttons, it's simply that buttons aren't needed and can be replaced by a combination of touchscreens, touch pads, and voice commands. There is no reason not to have a touch screen today since they offer good experiences for things like maps, web browsing, typing, etc. There is however not much of a good reason to keep buttons around much longer. Porsche's center console is a shit show and a complete mess. Porsche is so insane with their button usage that they have a stick with buttons on it.

    I own a manual with an old fashioned dash. I must say - drama queen much?  The string, pull it gently. It will be okay. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    This interior looks good to my eyes...  1527611592420image.gif

    1527748436562image.jpeg

    ...perfect for driving!  image.gif

    Does look fantastic, but it also costs like a million bucks.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:

    You guys better stock up while you can. Manuals are more or less dead. NA will die next, followed by ICEs in general. Touch screens, pads, and voice commands will replace most buttons after that, and then ultimately in the not too distant future cars will be all self-driving.

    BTW, the is really no need for more than a couple buttons or knobs in a modern car. All dashes are digital nowadays and can show any information. All you need is a multi-touch touch pad with gestures and some voice controls.

    Want to turn the volume up and down? Two finger swipe up or down. Want to set the climate controls? Say "Set air condition to 70 degrees".

    The point is not that touch screens should replace buttons, it's simply that buttons aren't needed and can be replaced by a combination of touchscreens, touch pads, and voice commands. There is no reason not to have a touch screen today since they offer good experiences for things like maps, web browsing, typing, etc. There is however not much of a good reason to keep buttons around much longer. Porsche's center console is a shit show and a complete mess. Porsche is so insane with their button usage that they have a stick with buttons on it.

    Why stop at autonomous vehicles when virtual reality means an infinite level of sensory experiences and no need for physical experiences?  Just think, energy consumption is minimized as life experiences are maximized.  That’s the Brave New World and its far easier to achieve than self-actualizing cars attempting to navigate in a messy, physical world.

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    You act like the holodeck wouldn't be one of the single biggest achievements in technology ever LOL

    "Go ahead, travel by transporter when you could enjoy driving on the highway for 3 hours!"

    You crack me up, CGX. The experiences you love are dying and you'll have to adapt and find new ones. Such is life.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:

    You act like the holodeck wouldn't be one of the single biggest achievements in technology ever LOL

    "Go ahead, travel by transporter when you could enjoy driving on the highway for 3 hours!"

    You crack me up, CGX. The experiences you love are dying and you'll have to adapt and find new ones. Such is life.

    Second World was just ahead of its time.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    This article has some interesting data on Tesla's order-book conversion...  1527611592420image.gif

    "Tesla Faces Accelerating Rate of Model 3 Refunds"

    (4 June 2018)

    Tesla began accepting deposits for the Model 3 more than two years ago and, after several delays, production is finally ramping up. But those holding out for the baseline Model 3—priced at $35,000—have just been told they’ll need to keep waiting. Refunded deposits have already been on the rise, and the latest news could push additional reservation holders to request their money back.

    Model 3 deposits are fully refundable up until the customer configures a car by selecting features and paying an additional fee of $2,500. After configuration, vehicles are typically delivered in just a few weeks. As of April, 8 percent of U.S. Model 3 depositors had configured a Tesla for production, while nearly a quarter of deposits had been refunded. The remaining two-thirds are in limbo—either still holding a spot in the Model 3 queue or waiting for a requested refund to be processed.

    Deposits started off strong. On March 31, 2016, eager early adopters drove a surge of initial deposits, and 61 percent of all Model 3 reservations occured in the first month. In August 2017, Tesla disclosed the gross and net Model 3 reservations, revealing a refund rate of 12 percent. Our analysis aligns with Tesla’s reported figures, also finding that 12 percent of deposits had been refunded at that time.

    Extended wait times cause refunds to rise

    More recently, Tesla has been tight-lipped about its current rate of refunds. Investors have good reason to be interested—as of last quarter, more than a third of Tesla’s cash holdings were customer deposits, which includes reservations for new Teslas other than the Model 3. Tesla is presently paying out refunds faster than new Model 3 deposits are coming in and, so far in 2018, it has issued twice as many $1,000 refunds as it has received $1,000 deposits.

    The Model 3 faced a series of production delays, and not all depositors have stuck out the wait. Since reservations began, 23 percent of deposits have been refunded. Only Tesla knows how many additional customers have cancelled reservations and are still awaiting refunds.

    Meanwhile, monthly new reservations have remained level in recent months. With Model 3 wait times currently advertised as 4-12 months, potential buyers joining the bottom of the queue may be unwilling to purchase if they find themselves ineligible for major federal tax credits, expected to start phasing out this year.

    More Model 3 depositors are finally configuring orders

    Earlier this month, Elon Musk came under fire for skirting questions during the Tesla Q1 earnings call, declining to disclose how many Model 3 reservations have gone on to be configured for purchase. Like refunds, our analysis shows configurations are also on the rise. In April, the number of configurations nearly tripled month-over-month among Model 3 reservation holders. These findings may exclude some customers who used different payment methods for the deposit and configuration.

    A rising rate of configurations sounds like a happy ending for Tesla fans, but this story has a twist—configurations aren’t necessarily for Model 3s. Some impatient reservation holders are purchasing a more expensive Tesla instead. The Model S and X each start at double the price of a baseline Model 3, making the upsell an ideal outcome for Tesla.

    Link: https://blog.secondmeasure.com/2018/06/04/tesla-faces-accelerating-rate-of-model-3-refunds/

    ...might explain why Elon Musk was a bit question shy on the Q1 investor call? Smiley   


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Would really like to see data on how the deposits are distributed regionally and from where the cancellations have occurred.  Sales of the Model 3 have only begun in Canada in the last couple of weeks, in an attempt to delay the phase out of tax credits in the United States once the 200,000 units sold target is reached.  One would imagine that many in the States sought the tax credit in addition to wanting the lower priced variant.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:

    Would really like to see data on how the deposits are distributed regionally and from where the cancellations have occurred.  Sales of the Model 3 have only begun in Canada in the last couple of weeks, in an attempt to delay the phase out of tax credits in the United States once the 200,000 units sold target is reached.  One would imagine that many in the States sought the tax credit in addition to wanting the lower priced variant.  

    I would have thought for many Mod3 buyers the $35k price was the hook, more so than tax credits which most know are at the whim of governments.  And that being told you need to option up to $50+k to get anything delivered would be the main factor leading to asking for the refund. 


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    4trac:
    CGX car nut:

    Would really like to see data on how the deposits are distributed regionally and from where the cancellations have occurred.  Sales of the Model 3 have only begun in Canada in the last couple of weeks, in an attempt to delay the phase out of tax credits in the United States once the 200,000 units sold target is reached.  One would imagine that many in the States sought the tax credit in addition to wanting the lower priced variant.  

    I would have thought for many Mod3 buyers the $35k price was the hook, more so than tax credits which most know are at the whim of governments.  And that being told you need to option up to $50+k to get anything delivered would be the main factor leading to asking for the refund. 

    Combination of both for the cost sensitive purchaser: the $35,000 price with a tax credit kicker. Was not clear on that issue and one apologizes for the ambiguity of message. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    They are delivering the expensive 3 first, they did exactly the same with the X... People wanting a very cheap 3 are probably pulling their deposit cause they wont get one any time soon, totally expected from this side.

    To put it another way, if someone though they were going to get a $35k model 3 within one year of production ramp up they were delusional.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    They are delivering the expensive 3 first, they did exactly the same with the X... People wanting a very cheap 3 are probably pulling their deposit cause they wont get one any time soon, totally expected from this side.

    To put it another way, if someone though they were going to get a $35k model 3 within one year of production ramp up they were delusional.

    Your response does little to address how many deposits were made by “delusional” individuals.  That is important information for the equity markets, yet Musk refused to answer the questions concerning the topic and actually mocked those analysts at the last analyst call.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla will be a boom or bust company. Some refunds were expected, the magnitude of it is not very relevant at this stage.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Tesla will be a boom or bust company. Some refunds were expected, the magnitude of it is not very relevant at this stage.

    Have you ever participated in a capital budgeting exercise?  Product demand is an essential part of the forecast to allocate capital and investment.  Capital is something Tesla, if it is to succeed, most raise and allocate prudently. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    You are still trying to apply normal metrics and financial sense to a company that would not exist today if you had done so. Enough people believed in it to make it a ridiculously expensive stock and raising capital has never been an issue for Tesla. Applying and argumeting old metrics will not change anything. It is all about sentiment not about $$.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    You are still trying to apply normal metrics and financial sense to a company that would not exist today if you had done so. Enough people believed in it to make it a ridiculously expensive stock and raising capital has never been an issue for Tesla. Applying and argumeting old metrics will not change anything. It is all about sentiment not about $$.

    Okay, you’re correct.   Tesla is a whole different something, just like the dot.com era companies and that near junk bond credit rating means Tesla can raise inexpensive capital nearly indefinitely.  Today’s annual shareholders meeting will be interesting.  


     
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