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    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    atomic80:

    I'm very interested in seeing what kind of updates Porsche makes to the new 991 GT3 RS because I'll be getting one! Yep, folks, you heard it here first!

     Interesting - comming from a Turbo what are yr thoughts behind it making already the decision now ? 


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    pxaxh:
    Budster:

    Not strictly a GT3 post, but did anyone notice the photo in Christophorus 359 accompanying the new 7m39s N'Burg record time for the Carrera S?  Did you notice that the stick was in the manual position...?!

    I don't think it makes a difference, since the PDK in the 991 shifts up automatically at redline and shifts down at kickdown - even in M-mode. Smiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    In Sport Plus Manual mode my car hits the rev limiter. Is the 991 any different


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    BjoernB:
    atomic80:

    I'm very interested in seeing what kind of updates Porsche makes to the new 991 GT3 RS because I'll be getting one! Yep, folks, you heard it here first!

     Interesting - comming from a Turbo what are yr thoughts behind it making already the decision now ? 

    I have always liked the GT3. I had the suspension in my Turbo modified to GT3 specifications but despite that, the weight, AWD, engine specs, etc still prevents it from being a true "GT3" machine. It doesn't help that I've had a chance to get behind the wheel of several GT3RS over the years. :) 


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    It's interesting - because when I have a chance to drive a TT I am always blown away by the torque of that thing vs the RS - but I must admit nothing comes close to that go-kart-steering on the RS kiss


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Yes, I definitely LOVE the torque in mine for sure but I also love the gokart steering plus the high revving engine in the GT3 too. 


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    No, it's the same thing in the 991 Reginos.  You can hit the rev limiter in M mode.  Unless there is a very recent software update my car hasn't got.


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    reginos:

    In Sport Plus Manual mode my car hits the rev limiter. Is the 991 any different

    According to Sport Auto (Supertest) and AutoBild yes, it shifts up at 7600 rpm. Smiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    acrobat:
    reginos:

    In Sport Plus Manual mode my car hits the rev limiter. Is the 991 any different

    According to Sport Auto (Supertest) and AutoBild yes, it shifts up at 7600 rpm. Smiley

    Are you sure? Since I have that issue of Sport Auto(Heft 12/2011) in front of me right now and after re-reading the Supertest twice there is no mention that PDK shifts up automatically in Sport Plus M mode. In fact reginos is 100% right when he claims that in Sport Plus M mode you can hit limiter. Same is with all PDK 981 and 991 models. Maybe you are talking about Sport Plus D mode? Since you can use paddles when the lever is in D mode. To switch to full M mode you need to put lever in to M mode also.


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    KresoF1:
    acrobat:
    reginos:

    In Sport Plus Manual mode my car hits the rev limiter. Is the 991 any different

    According to Sport Auto (Supertest) and AutoBild yes, it shifts up at 7600 rpm. Smiley

    Are you sure? Since I have that issue of Sport Auto(Heft 12/2011) in front of me right now and after re-reading the Supertest twice there is no mention that PDK shifts up automatically in Sport Plus M mode. In fact reginos is 100% right when he claims that in Sport Plus M mode you can hit limiter. Same is with all PDK 981 and 991 models. Maybe you are talking about Sport Plus D mode? Since you can use paddles when the lever is in D mode. To switch to full M mode you need to put lever in to M mode also.

    I know what's the difference between D- and M-mode. Smiley

    Horst von Saurma: "Automatisches Hochschalten am Drehzahllimit und Kick-Down-Funktion - das sind die einzigen Indizien seitens des PDK-Getriebes, die dem Geist der reinen Sportlichkeit widersprechen"

    AutoBild: "Die Schaltwippen kann der Fahrer vergessen, das PDK schaltet bei Maximaldrehzahl selbstständig hoch, bei Kickdown ebenso selbstständig zurück. Kann man mögen, muss man aber nicht."

    I think both authors know about the M-mode, so it's obvious to me that they are talking about both modes at once.

    But since I never drove a 991, the truth can be the opposite. Smiley

     


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Here is one :

    http://www.rennteam.com/forum/page1.html

     

    Then  also look for his MacLaren GTR F1  , his Porsche 916 or 918 . His F40  etc.....


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    First, HvS was talking about Sport Plus D mode in his short comment about 7.44min Ring time. He used Sport Plus D mode for his fast lap.

    Second, I am not so sure that author of Auto Bild article do know how to use Sport Plus M mode properly.SmileySmiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    BjoernB:

    It's interesting - because when I have a chance to drive a TT I am always blown away by the torque of that thing vs the RS - but I must admit nothing comes close to that go-kart-steering on the RS kiss

    That's why they build the GT2 Smiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    MKSGR:
    BjoernB:

    It's interesting - because when I have a chance to drive a TT I am always blown away by the torque of that thing vs the RS - but I must admit nothing comes close to that go-kart-steering on the RS kiss

    That's why they build the GT2 Smiley

    6,750rpm vs 8,500rpm Smiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    KresoF1:

    First, HvS was talking about Sport Plus D mode in his short comment about 7.44min Ring time. He used Sport Plus D mode for his fast lap

    So he's complaining about the automatic up- and downshifts at the Nordschleife, instead driving the car in M-mode, where everything happenes according to the driver... Sounds illogical to me.


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    This is from the Supertest's Acceleration-Braking part:

    "Beschleunigungs-/Bremsprüfung

    Beschleunigung 0-200 km/h: 14,1 s
    Bremsen 200-0 km/h: 4,7 s
    Gesamtzeit resultiert aus Addition beider Messwerte

    Die Eigenmächtigkeit des PDK-Getriebes - automatisches Hochschalten und Kick-Down-Funktion selbst im Sport Plus-Modus -, wirft einen kleinen Schatten auf das System, das mit seinen geschliffen und zudem unterhaltsam vorgetragenen Gangwechseln ansonsten nicht nur Freude bereitet, sondern mit seinen Automatismen auch der Fahrsicherheit zuträglich ist."

    Also, there's no word about driving in D-mode on the Norschleife: http://www.sportauto.de/supertest/porsche-911-carrera-s-991-im-supertest-elfer-syndrom-entwickelt-sich-weiter-4100805.html?show=...

     

     

     


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    All PDK boxes have D and M additional modes for their Standard, Sport and  Sport Plus programms. In Sport Plus M mode you can hit rev limiter. You need to test drive 991 for yourslf...

    I understand German pretty well and HvS even called PDK "genial"...


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Only 5 weeks before we all get to see the car for real and hear the actual specs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bring on 05 March.


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    This picture was taken on the same event as the video down below. The gearbox is in manual mode, but if you'll watch the video carefully, you'll see that it shifts up at 7600 rpm automatically. Sometimes the driver shifts up with the right paddle, but -since he's a Porsche factory driver- he also knows that the upshift will come automatically at 7600.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnSpVN0-wio

    Watch carefully at 00:50, 01:07, 01:17, etc., etc...


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Re watch the video few times. Goes in what Sport Plus mode is he driving, M or D?

    Picture above is not taken from that video, It is taken from the same event and he did few laps,  not only one.

    Did you had a chance to drive 911(be it 997.2 or 991) with PDK? Apparently you did not... To repeat reginos words PDK in 911 can hit the limiter in Sport Plus M mode.


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Why rev it to the limiter when max HP is a couple of hundred revs below ?


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Will the new 911 GT3 have a PDK gearbox only? Back to the subject matter LOL!


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    KresoF1:

    Did you had a chance to drive 911(be it 997.2 or 991) with PDK? Apparently you did not... To repeat reginos words PDK in 911 can hit the limiter in Sport Plus M mode.

    You're right, I did not, as I mentioned above. But I've read too much evidence on other forums and in magazines that I believe that in the 991-series the PDK works differently in M-mode as it did in the 997.2.

    This is from rennlist:

    PDK will automatically up and downshift even in Manual. The difference is that the shift point in the other modes is determined by throttle. Suddenly floor it in any of the Auto modes and it will downshift appropriate to your throttle and mode. Stay on throttle and upshift point will depend on how much throttle and which mode. Floor it in Manual and it will not upshift until redline. Forget you're in Manual and brake to a stop, it will still seamlessly downshift all the way to full stop neutral. Doing this in Sport it will downshift at higher revs, you will hear the throttle blips and feel engine braking. In Manual it just stays in each gear until revs drop very low, then downshifts so smooth and quiet you will have to look at the numbers on the dash to know it happened! So overall keeps you in the gear you select while preventing you from doing any harm.

    But of course, we should end this discussion and turn back to topic. Smiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    I doubt that there is any difference between the 997.2 and 991 PDK operation in this respect. But when I drove the 991 I concentrated on other things and did not try it.

    However, what Porsche highlight as the Sport and Sport Plus difference is the Launch Control and the "Race Strategy" gear changes in Sport Plus Auto. In practice however the M gear changes are faster in Sport Plus and the you can hit the rev limiter in M. As these two things are not mentioned either in the brochure or in the owner manual, I suspect that many testers and owners don't bother to try them. The 997.2 NBR time of 7.50 was set by SA magazine in Sport Plus Auto mode and most probably the time for 991 too and hence the statement about upshifting.

    BTW another two PDK features that are not mentioned in the manual (but the driver has to find out empirically) are:

    • Keeping the minus button or paddle pressed, gears drop in sequence until the revs don't allow it further.
    • Pressing the accelerator suddenly, as many  gears drop as again allowed by the revs. You could drop from 6G to 2G for example with a sudden push on the pedal without doing a kickdown..

    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Acrobat, I had a 997.2S, now have a 991S.  While the 991S gearbox seems a little more 'lively' thanks to some programming tweaks, there really isn't a difference in operation from a D and M mode between the two.

    In M mode it doesn't upshift for you and will hit the limiter, if there wasn't salt on the roads I'd take a video to show it...it will downshift for you if you don't pay attention and let the revs drop so as to avoid lugging the engine.

    To make this on topic, can't wait to see the new GT3 and get a drive in one.

    Regards


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Does anybody know, when it will be presented offiicialy?


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    rsv:

    Does anybody know, when it will be presented offiicialy?

    at the Geneva International Motor Show

    edit: but maybe you meant the official photos? I guess we will see those only a few days before the Geneva press days. (was the case with the new Cayman)

    --

    997 GT3 3.8


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Gauss:
    rsv:

    Does anybody know, when it will be presented offiicialy?

    at the Geneva International Motor Show

    edit: but maybe you meant the official photos? I guess we will see those only a few days before the Geneva press days. (was the case with the new Cayman)

    --

    997 GT3 3.8

    It depends on who leaks them first... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    You have probably heard about the pictures and leak on Rennlist.com? The pictures are not of the final car - its still one of the mules but its not wearing any  camoflague. The rear wing looks final production but the wheels and door mirrors are not the final choice.

    3.8 L

    NEW engine desigation (based on DFI 9a1 but with entirely new bottom end and the engineers say the basis for future Cup engines!

    RPM to 10,000 and Redline at 9000

    Bigger brakes

    C4S body shell

    PDK - S different PDK from 991S cars...

     

    http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=741313&referrerid=6980

     


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Latest (confirmed) power figure I got is 450 hp. Let's see if this is right. 

    PDK also allows the car to accelerate to 100 kph under 4 seconds (3.7 was the last number I heard).

    Price tag will be a surprise according to our source...a bad surprise. I hope he is wrong.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


     
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