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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    brake.png


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    lukestern:

    brake.png

    It is mighty impressive to hear that Tesla can reduce Model 3 brake fading with a quick software update... Smiley

    I gather the industry benchmark is for braking performance (i.e. deceleration) to be twice that of the engine performance, so stopping distance should be half that taken to accelerate to a give speed... can Tesla achieve that? Smiley

    Maybe they can introduce a new firmware update to improve Tesla production volumes and convert negative gross margins and negative cashflow into positive net profits and positive cashflow... Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    Maybe they can introduce a new firmware update to improve Tesla production volumes and convert negative gross margins and negative cashflow into positive net profits and positive cashflow... Smiley

    Anything is possible in cyberspace.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    lukestern:

    brake.png

    It is mighty impressive to hear that Tesla can reduce Model 3 brake fading with a quick software update... Smiley

    I gather the industry benchmark is for braking performance (i.e. deceleration) to be twice that of the engine performance, so stopping distance should be half that taken to accelerate to a give speed... can Tesla achieve that? Smiley

    Maybe they can introduce a new firmware update to improve Tesla production volumes and convert negative gross margins and negative cashflow into positive net profits and positive cashflow... Smiley


    Don't think the problem was about brake fading. It was inconsistency. Software update will include a tuning of the ABS algorithm and that doesn't sound like something impossible to push out OTA since the entire car software can be managed this way.

    We'll see when the car get's re-tested by CR. Other tests clearly already shown good braking results according to spec.

    At least when we get the car to Europe next year, the most bugs and problems has been ironed out Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS

    It is mighty impressive to hear that Tesla can reduce Model 3 brake fading with a quick software update... Smiley

    Who said anything about brake fade? You couldn't even buy brakes that fade this quickly even if you wanted to.

    The braking inconsistency is no doubt just an ABS issue, which is just software.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    At least the early production model 3 they tested didn’t need to have its engine replaced like the GT3s angry

    More seriously, the same happened with the S model, they didn’t like something, pulled the recommendation only to restore it back a couple of months later. Since there is a precedent, the latest story is pretty much irrelevant in the big scheme of things.

    The puzzzling part is the handling claim from Musk. He knows cars, but better handling than an M3? Is it possible they are trying to apply things they are discovery while developing the roadster?


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    At least the early production model 3 they tested didn’t need to have its engine replaced like the GT3s angry

    And hey, they shouldn't discount what software can do. Porsche's software engineers were able to drastically cut emissions with just a firmware update. Surely Tesla can tweak the ABS with firmware too...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    For reference, here is the Consumer Reports press release on the Tesla Model 3...

    "Tesla Model 3 Falls Short of a CR Recommendation"

    Despite record range and agile handling, issues with braking, controls, and ride quality hurt the Model 3’s Overall Score

    (22 May 2018)

    Tesla’s Model 3 represents the electric automaker’s first attempt at a more affordable mass-market car. In Consumer Reports’ tests, we found plenty to like about the luxury compact sedan (which starts at $35,000 but goes all the way up to $78,000), including record-setting range as well as exhilarating acceleration and handling that could make it a healthy competitor to performance-oriented cars such as BMW’s 3 Series and the Audi A4. Our testers also found flaws—big flaws—such as long stopping distances in our emergency braking test and difficult-to-use controls.

    These problems keep the Model 3 from earning a Consumer Reports recommendation.

    The Tesla’s stopping distance of 152 feet from 60 mph was far worse than any contemporary car we’ve tested and about 7 feet longer than the stopping distance of a Ford F-150 full-sized pickup.

    A Tesla spokesperson told CR that the company’s own testing found stopping distances from 60 to 0 mph were an average of 133 feet, with the same tires as our Model 3. The automaker noted that stopping-distance results are affected by variables such as road surface, weather conditions, tire temperature, brake conditioning, outside temperature, and past driving behavior that may have affected the brake system.

    In a series of tweets on Monday night, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said that the braking issue CR identified could be fixed with a firmware update, which will be rolled out "in a few days." Musk went on to say that with further refinement "we can improve braking distance beyond initial specs." CR has reached out to Tesla for confirmation and will update this story as we receive more details. 

    As its name implies, CR’s braking test is meant to determine how a vehicle performs in an emergency situation. The test is based on an industry-standard procedure designed by SAE International, a global engineering association. Our testers get a car up to 60 mph, then slam on the brakes until the car comes to a stop. They repeat this multiple times to ensure consistent results. Between each test, the vehicle is driven approximately a mile to cool the brakes and make sure they don’t overheat.

    The test is done at our 327-acre test facility on dedicated braking surfaces that are monitored for consistent surface friction. “Before each test, we make sure the brake pads and tires have been properly conditioned,” says Jake Fisher, director of auto testing at CR. “We’ve conducted it on more than 500 vehicles, and we are always looking for consistent, repeatable results.”

    In our testing of the Model 3, the first stop we recorded was significantly shorter (around 130 feet, similar to Tesla’s findings), but that distance was not repeated, even after we let the brakes cool overnight. Consumer Reports publishes a distance based on all the stops we record in our test, not just the shortest individual stop.

    Because we saw some inconsistency in the braking performance, we got a second Model 3 (a privately owned vehicle that was loaned to CR) to verify our results. CR has tested second samples in previous situations to double-check our findings.

    When we ran the second Model 3 through the same tests, we got almost identical results.

    In our tests of both Model 3 samples, the stopping distances were much longer than the stopping distances we recorded on other Teslas and other cars in this class.

    The Tesla Model 3’s 152 feet is 21 feet longer than the class average of 131 feet for luxury compact sedans and 25 feet longer than the results for its much larger SUV sibling, the Model X.

    CR’s experience with the Model 3’s braking is not unique. Car and Driver, in its published test of a Model 3, said it noticed “a bizarre amount of variation” in its test, including one stop from 70 mph that took “an interminable 196 feet.”

    “I’ve been testing cars for 11 years,” Car and Driver Testing Director K.C. Colwell said in an interview with CR, “and in 11 years, no car has stood out with inconsistent braking like this. Some trucks have. . . . It was just weird.”

    The Tesla spokeswoman says the company has the ability to update its vehicles over the air. “Unlike other vehicles, Tesla is uniquely positioned to address more corner cases over time through over-the-air software updates, and it continually does so to improve factors such as stopping distance,” she says.

    Another major factor that compromised the Model 3’s road-test score was its controls. This car places almost all its controls and displays on a center touch screen, with no gauges on the dash, and few buttons inside the car.

    This layout forces drivers to take multiple steps to accomplish simple tasks. Our testers found that everything from adjusting the mirrors to changing the direction of the airflow from the air-conditioning vents required using the touch screen.

    These types of complex interactions with a touch screen can cause driver distraction because each act forces drivers to take their eyes off the road and a hand off the steering wheel.

    The Model 3’s stiff ride, unsupportive rear seat and excessive wind noise at highway speeds also hurt its road-test score. In the compact luxury sedan class, most competitors deliver a more comfortable ride and rear seat.

    These performance and ergonomic problems were serious downsides to an otherwise impressive performance sedan. It delivered a blistering 0-to-60-mph time of 5.3 seconds.

    In addition, the Model 3 set a range record in CR testing. It managed to go 350 miles on a single charge - the longest distance we’ve ever recorded in an EV - when set to Tesla’s higher regenerative braking mode (which the company refers to as Standard Regenerative Braking Mode). This mode will aggressively slow the vehicle to charge the battery as soon as the driver removes his or her foot from the accelerator pedal.

    When set to the lower regenerative braking mode, which more accurately reflects the driving experience of a conventional vehicle, the EV still managed to go an impressive 310 miles, which is in line with what Tesla estimated for the car. CR tested the Chevrolet Bolt EV and the Tesla Model S using the lower regenerative braking mode when we compared the range of these two cars.

    That much range could make an EV a viable choice as a daily driver for even more consumers.

    Link: https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-short-of-consumer-reports-recommendation/


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Nothing but a software problem.  That highly vaunted OTA update should correct the issue.  https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-model-3-brake-pads-destroyed-after-nine-miles-of-laguna-seca-124324.html


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    “including record-setting range as well as exhilarating acceleration and handling that could make it a healthy competitor to performance-oriented cars such as BMW’s 3 Series and the Audi A4”

    This was not expected at all. If indeed all CR issues will or have already been fixed, we can expect the model 3 to sell like hot cakes in the USA and a worthy competitor to BMW and all. The minimalist interior itself will sell very well. The tablet controls is just something new, it is the future...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Edmunds latest monthly report on its long-term road test of the Tesla Model 3...

    "Tesla Model 3: Monthly Update for April 2018" by Edmunds

    (15 May 2018)

    Where Did We Drive It?

    Where we drove our long-term Tesla Model 3 in April is a bit less relevant than what happened while we were driving it. We did local commuting and a few freeway journeys, sure, but everywhere we went the car was fraught with problems. Sixteen weeks into ownership, we've had so many issues with our Model 3 that we started a shared Google Doc to catalog various warning messages, necessary screen resets and general failures. 

    Forget that this is a "cutting-edge" EV with a cult following. That's irrelevant if Tesla wants to be anything more than a footnote in automotive history. Our Model 3 cost us $56,000, and by that standard alone, the ownership experience so far has been unacceptable. But this is no ordinary $56K car. We put down a $1,000 deposit to get on a two-year waiting list for this car and it's falling apart. 

    Early adopters who could spend six figures on a car such as the Model S might've given Tesla a bit of extra leeway. Maybe they figure it's a small price to pay for such a technologically advanced car. Maybe it's a sacrifice they're willing to make to avoid using fossil fuels and get free access to the carpool lane. This far into its run, though, and with a car intended for mass appeal, Tesla should have the bugs worked out. It clearly doesn't. 

    What Kind of Fuel Economy Did It Get?

    We put down 1,120 miles in April, up a few miles from last month. That's a bit shorter than our monthly goal of around 1,700 miles so we'll have to plan a few Supercharger-fueled road trips to catch up. We plugged in at the Edmunds high-powered wall charger 12 times in April and used just one Supercharger station. Here's what that looks like in terms of energy consumption:

    Current odometer: 5,257 miles
    Average lifetime consumption: 33.6 kWh/100 miles (100.2 miles per gallon equivalent)
    EPA consumption rating: 27 kWh/100 combined (126 mpge)
    Best fill: 25.6 kWh/100 (131.5 mpge)

    This is the second month in a row that our average kilowatt-hours used per 100 miles increased, but we're still doing better than the EPA combined estimate (the lower the energy use per 100 miles, the more efficient you've been driving). As a side note, Supercharger energy got more expensive this month. Tesla upped the price from 20 cents per kWh to 26 cents per kWh. That's more than some of our editors pay to charge the Tesla at home, but not outrageous. When you consider the cost of installing a Level 2 charger at home, Superchargers are still a relatively good deal. 

    Maintenance and Upkeep 

    Based on many issues we had early in the month, we took the Model 3 in for service. The most annoying of those issues was a repeated, uncontrollable increase in stereo volume, sometimes when we weren't even in the car. Basically, the stereo would suddenly go to full volume without explanation. This and other issues are cataloged from our notes below: 

    • Would not recognize keycard in or on the console and hence would not go into gear. It did, however, unlock the car. Workaround was to force quit the app and restart the app. Then it would allow the choice of Drive or Reverse.

    • The backup camera screen did not appear when reversing.

    • Nav screen going haywire: zooming, scrolling, pinching, pixelating all at once.

    • Audio system turning on by itself at full volume.

    • Audio display randomly moving up and down the screen without any command from a human.

    • Audio system came on and went to full volume all by itself while the car was off, locked and unoccupied. I heard it from 100 yards away. "Who is that joker playing his stereo so loud I can hear it from here?" Oh, it's Elon. I turned it down, but it kept wavering up and down as I started driving, working against my repeated attempts to dial it down. Then it blasted all the way to maximum. My ears are still ringing two hours later. Fixed after reboot. Not sure about hearing damage.

    • Audio page leaping up and down rapidly like the up-caret button to expand the source menu was being played with by a kid who ate too much candy. Concurrent with the volume problem above. Same reboot.

    • Icons on the map screen flickering.

    • The passenger vanity mirror fell off completely. Installed and held on only by double-sided tape. Reinstalled by pressing really hard on the mirror.

    • The screen went completely dark on startup, no music or operation. Restarted the car. The screen worked; the backup camera did not. 

    After diagnosing the car's problems, we took the Model 3 to the service center mid-April. The service center replaced our center screen, updated our firmware, and sent us on our way. That trip to the service center also included a software update, which was meant to address some very specific problems we were having with the Autopilot system. For more on that update, check out this video. The entire process at the service center only took about three hours, so we waited and drove the car home the same day. The service was free and we haven't had the volume issue again, but there were several warnings in the following two weeks:

    • The car will not shift into Drive or Reverse upon startup. "Vehicle Systems Are Powering Up. Shift Into D or R After Message Clears." Have to wait for it to power up. A loud click comes from the rear of the car as if a drive shaft is engaging and the message on the screen goes away.

    • The car displays a new message: "Cannot Maintain Vehicle Power. Car May Stop Driving or Shut Down." No shutdowns yet, but keeping an eye out.

    • With 170 miles of range, the car displays a "Regenerative Braking Limited" message. Plenty of available space to store regen power. Logged the issue, then reset the screen with a reboot. The message has not displayed since.

    • While the car was parked, the passenger sun visor was left down and the mirror fell out. Pressed back into place. Hoping it won't fall out again.

    Just to recap, this has all happened in the past four weeks, less than four full months into our yearlong test. We've already scheduled a third service visit for next month, and our collective patience with this car is wearing thin. 

    Days out of service: 0

    Logbook Highlights

    Cargo Space
    "I was recently transporting a large record collection, along with a few boxes of CDs, and the Model 3 was the car I had for the job. I was impressed by the Model 3's storage ability relative to its size, with the space to fit four massive storage containers and several cases of CDs with space to spare. The weight on top of the rear seats, however, set off the seat sensor, telling me there was something in the back seat. It did this, on a constantly displaying basis, for over 100 miles. Seems to me like there should be some sort of secondary sensor that knows the seat is folded down before it warns me that the plastic totes aren't wearing their seat belts." — Travis Langness, staff writer

    Technology-Audio
    "Technology is supposed to make things easier, right? Right? That is so NOT the case with the Tesla Model 3. Simple things are hard to figure out at first glance. I've complained about this issue in our Model X before. I want to change the radio station. On the screen all I get are icons of the preset radio stations, some of them have the actual radio station dial numbers and others are just tiny thumbnails of bands (?). The station I'm currently listening to isn't even anywhere obvious on the display. 

    "Cut to me trying to get out of the car from the passenger side while parked in a dim garage. Where is the handle/button/lever to open the door? 'It's that dim LED light there,' said editor Jay Kavanagh from the driver's seat after having watched me feel blindly around on the passenger door. Ugh, why is everything so hard? I just wonder what it's like for those who actually own this car. It must get easier. It has to." —Caroline Pardilla, senior copy editor

    "Weird glitch with the new screen on our Model 3. I was greeted with a blank screen in the morning. The car was on, but the screen was black. I put it in Drive and intended on going to work with the faulty screen. For kicks, I figured I'd give my Bluetooth audio a try, so I'd have something to listen to. This seemed to jumpstart the screen back to life. It functioned as intended for the rest of the weekend." — Ron Montoya, senior consumer advice editor

    Comfort
    "Backseat comfort review from the two adult passengers riding in the Tesla Model 3: They said the car rode extremely rough over imperfections in the road and it was not comfortable at all. It quickly burst their 'Oh, look at this cool Tesla!' bubble." — Ron Montoya

    Performance
    "This car is a joy to drive on Angeles Crest Highway, and I don't say that lightly. Angeles Crest is a famously demanding road that winds up into the San Gabriel Mountains north of Los Angeles. You need brakes, power and a taut, balanced chassis to do it right. The Model 3 has it all. Body roll is minimal, the brakes don't complain, the steering is gratifyingly precise, and there are gobs of instant torque on tap. Plus, the regenerative braking function means you use the actual brake pedal less often. 

    "It's a new kind of fun to lift off the throttle ahead of a corner and realize you've already scrubbed enough speed without even touching the pedal." — Josh Sadlier, senior manager content strategy

    Interior
    "No matter how much time I spend in the Model 3, I am still not used to form-over-function door handles and interior door buttons. Every new passenger is confused about how to get into and out of the car. Even me, the driver, I have a hard time remembering how to get in from time to time. And even when I do remember, pushing in and then pulling out the door handles adds an extra step that I don't need. Why reinvent the wheel, Tesla? Make some normal door handles, Elon. Your customers will thank you." — Travis Langness

    Link: https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-tesla-model-3-monthly-update-for-april-2018.html

    ...sounds like Edmunds needs to request a few more of Tesla's firmware updates at the next monthly service! Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Sounds like the Edmunds guys is a bunch of old farts. Like giving my granny a new iPad for the first time a few years ago. Some will never be able to adapt to new things.

    They clearly also got a very early car with lot's of problems. Most software related. Most of these things reported are already sorted.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Can some explain to me why Tesla put into service a car that has poor braking capabilities because of a software glitch? Very strange or suspicious.


    --

    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    Can some explain to me why Tesla put into service a car that has poor braking capabilities because of a software glitch? Very strange or suspicious.

    Apparently the future in automaking is rushing the cars to the market in poor quality control and beta stage and then try to fix some of the problems later via OTA  1325269639981rolleyes.gif  ... of course those drinking the cool-aid will tout all those software updates as a good thing that others don't get when in fact its that they don't need them in the first place Smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    Can some explain to me why Tesla put into service a car that has poor braking capabilities because of a software glitch? Very strange or suspicious.

    See the Laguna Seca post one made several posts above this one.  There is a braking issue with the Model 3.  Part of the problem may be software related as EV use a combination of electric motor regeneration-turning the motor into a generator-and conventional hydraulic braking systems.  These two systems must be blended together using software to optimize braking efficiency.   This is usually done in testing and product development. 

    The Leguna Seca Model 3 page shows that the brakes were destroyed after a handful of laps totaling around nine miles distance traveled.   This indicates that the hydraulic braking system isn’t sized properly to stop the Model 3 as Tesla relies on brake regen too.  However, there are times when regen isn’t available and the traditional braking system is required to safely stop the car.   The Model S has a similar problem when launched too.  A few owners lived in the mountains uncovered the problem.   They would leave home with fully charged battery packs and head downhill, only to discover that the braking system couldn’t rely on the regen mode as there was no capacity in the battery for the electricity being generated and the hydraulic braking system had problems braking a heavy car. To put this into perspective, other cars having braking systems that usually are rated at four times the horsepower of the engine.  This is why the stop shorter and quicker than their acceleration times.  

     

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:
    nberry:

    Can some explain to me why Tesla put into service a car that has poor braking capabilities because of a software glitch? Very strange or suspicious.

    Apparently the future in automaking is rushing the cars to the market in poor quality control and beta stage and then try to fix some of the problems later via OTA  1325269639981rolleyes.gif  ... of course those drinking the cool-aid will tout all those software updates as a good thing that others don't get when in fact its that they don't need them in the first place Smiley

    OR

    you could need a new engine within weeks or getting a new car Smiley

    My Porsches have spent more time than any other in the shop and they never fixed the rattle on my CTTS sunroof after 4 years and 4 visits... The ENTIRE lower console of my Macan went dead, rendering the car unusable and had to be replaced. My Macan radiator system had a leak. The exhaust had to be repaired 3 times because it wasn’t holding in place. All these from Porsche who has the highest margins in the industry and has been building cars for decades. So who is drinking the kook aid again? Smiley These model 3 are early production cars from a new models made by a new manufacturer. Only the biased people who have a vested interest in knocking down Tesla (to sell more paper like above or to protect some business interests like a few here) would not look beyond these early mistakes. S and X had the same sort of mistakes also so it’s not like this is a surprise to anyone except the ones who want it to make it a story.

    Even the early model buyers know they are being beta testers and somewhere like being part of creating a revolution.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    So it not only handles better than M3 but more reliable than a Porsche too? That cool-aid is some powerfull stuff smiley

    I had barely any problems, never anything serious requiring more than a quick visit, in my + 400,000km in 911's so your anecdotal experiences is moot to me, and to all the industry reliability reports for that matter.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    So it not only handles better than M3 but more reliable than a Porsche too? That cool-aid is some powerfull stuff smiley

    I had barely any problems, never anything serious requiring more than a quick visit, in my + 400,000km in 911's so your anecdotal experiences is moot to me, and to all the industry reliability reports for that matter.

    Law of large numbers leads to the occasional defective product with some having more than their fair share of issues.  The variance must be separated from design and production issues inherent throughout the production range.  That’s what needs to be addressed and the press is a notoriously wrong place for that to occur.  

    In other news, there was another high profile Model S death in California Sunday evening.  Car left the roadway traveling through a field before sinking in a pond.  Tesla needs something other than an Autopilot related incident especially after the head of Mobileye said Tesla has taken a low cost, high risk approach to autonomous driving. 

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Lucky you. Your GT3 peers have had engines replaced (sometimes more than once?) and tires rubbing against the chassis in a car supposed to represent the ultimate expressions of the 911. Oh and didn’t the 918 get recalled this month yet again (for suspension troubles)?

    Does RMS leak remind you of anything? smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Lucky you. Your GT3 peers have had engines replaced (sometimes more than once?) and tires rubbing against the chassis in a car supposed to represent the ultimate expressions of the 911. Oh and didn’t the 918 get recalled this month yet again (for suspension troubles)?

    Does RMS leak remind you of anything? smiley

    That's not how it works around here. You see, first they make a big deal about performance and handling and dynamics, but then when that stuff turns out to be great, they try to find problems with build and reliability.

    RMS leak, IED GT3s, 918 recalls...

    Tesla haters will always find some flaw to pinpoint.

    I guess they'll just have to wait for the Mission E to get excellent build quality and reliability. Of course they'll be paying $100K extra for those sun visors LOL.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    So it not only handles better than M3 but more reliable than a Porsche too? That cool-aid is some powerfull stuff smiley

    I had barely any problems, never anything serious requiring more than a quick visit, in my + 400,000km in 911's so your anecdotal experiences is moot to me, and to all the industry reliability reports for that matter.

    Consumer Reports says Porsche is only the 13th most reliable brand. :x

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/10/19/consumer-reports-toyota-tops-reliability-and-cadillac-last/777807001/

    Porsche is less reliable than a Kia and it only costs 5x as much.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Lucky you. Your GT3 peers have had engines replaced (sometimes more than once?) and tires rubbing against the chassis in a car supposed to represent the ultimate expressions of the 911. Oh and didn’t the 918 get recalled this month yet again (for suspension troubles)?

    Does RMS leak remind you of anything? smiley

    Automaking is a complex, difficult task and even the most adept have issues.  It was Musk who said he had set out to remake the automobile and its manufacturing process through “First Principles” because he is a very smart, Silicon Valley billionaire.  He has also claimed his cars will last for a million miles.  Because of this hype, many elevated the Model 3 to become the most important automobile from the most important automaker.  That makes its issues, and its few achievements, fair targets, plus you have a biased view based on your Tesla ownership.  As stated before, one has no direct or indirect economic interest in the success or failure of the company, it is a mere intellectual subject of study. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Few achievements? Tesla is pretty much responsible for the entire EV movement and the Model 3 just got 350 miles of range. Can't why to see the range on the $200K Mission E.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I don't have a dog in this fight. I hope Tesla succeeds.

    But, there is a flaw in your argument. CR reviews of the prior generation of Tesla's have been glowing. The Model 3 not so good. CR doesn't have an axe to grind against Tesla. They objectively tested it and found it less than satisfactory. 

    What happened to the Model 3 can be expected. In the rush to put the model into service, the quality is far from acceptable. 


    --

    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:

    Few achievements? Tesla is pretty much responsible for the entire EV movement and the Model 3 just got 350 miles of range. Can't why to see the range on the $200K Mission E.

    Stringent emission standards are responsible for the current rush toward electrification, not Tesla’s glowing successes. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Who is making the argument that CR has an axe to grind? It's entirely possible they didn't recommend it. So what? They don't recommend lots of cars that are actually totally fine and bought by many.

    They also didn't recommend the Macbook Pro and then changed their mind after Apple gave them an updated one.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:
    noone1:

    Few achievements? Tesla is pretty much responsible for the entire EV movement and the Model 3 just got 350 miles of range. Can't why to see the range on the $200K Mission E.

    Stringent emission standards are responsible for the current rush toward electrification, not Tesla’s glowing successes. 


    Yeah, because no one on here would have wanted that super hot Mission E in 2012, right? No one could have foreseen the need for EVs in 2012, right? The forum gets a collective hard-on at Mission E news, yet no one gave a shit about EVs in 2012. The Mission E could have existed in 2012, just like the Model S. The technology was there.

    The rush to EVs is a reaction to realizing how far behind they all suddenly were and that if Tesla could do it, so could Toyota. Tesla proved to everyone that EVs were viable and very desirable, and then they all shit their pants that someone much bigger than Tesla could do it too.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:
    CGX car nut:
    noone1:

    Few achievements? Tesla is pretty much responsible for the entire EV movement and the Model 3 just got 350 miles of range. Can't why to see the range on the $200K Mission E.

    Stringent emission standards are responsible for the current rush toward electrification, not Tesla’s glowing successes. 


    Yeah, because no one on here would have wanted that super hot Mission E in 2012, right? No one could have foreseen the need for EVs in 2012, right? The forum gets a collective hard-on at Mission E news, yet no one gave a shit about EVs in 2012. The Mission E could have existed in 2012, just like the Model S. The technology was there.

    The rush to EVs is a reaction to realizing how far behind they all suddenly were and that if Tesla could do it, so could Toyota. Tesla proved to everyone that EVs were viable and very desirable, and then they all shit their pants that someone much bigger than Tesla could do it too.

    Keep telling yourself that.  The first modern EV that many found desirable was GM’s EV-1 back in the 1990s.  It was so desirable amongst your California neighbors that they made a movie about it, “Who Killed the Electric Car, when GM decided to end its costly CARB compliance experiment. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    I don't have a dog in this fight. I hope Tesla succeeds.

    But, there is a flaw in your argument. CR reviews of the prior generation of Tesla's have been glowing. The Model 3 not so good. CR doesn't have an axe to grind against Tesla. They objectively tested it and found it less than satisfactory. 

    What happened to the Model 3 can be expected. In the rush to put the model into service, the quality is far from acceptable. 

    There was a time CR stopped recommending the model S also... Once again, nothing new with the model 3 except that this time Tesla needs to ramp production fast enough not to run out of cash because the numbers in play are much larger than before.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:
    noone1:

    Few achievements? Tesla is pretty much responsible for the entire EV movement and the Model 3 just got 350 miles of range. Can't why to see the range on the $200K Mission E.

    Stringent emission standards are responsible for the current rush toward electrification, not Tesla’s glowing successes. 

    Stringent emissions standards were led by California which has a vested interest to see Tesla succeed and push their ultra liberal agenda at the same time. Without Tesla who’s to say the standards would be this stringent? You usually come up with better arguments than that Smiley

    And sorry but saying that Tesla success has nothing to do with the current race to EV is just simply ridiculous. First because of the technology they said would not be possible anytime soon (because they couldn’t do it) and Tesla proved them wrong, second because Tesla is stealing A LOT of sales in the most profitable segment of German manufacturers in the USA, that they would notice.

    The currrent VW move to electrification has one unsaid agenda to destroy Tesla before they really become a powerhouse, and they also have a cult to trolls like we clearly have a few here. Once gain, I have no skin in the game but your desperate mongering and insider knowledge only lessen your objectivity and often sharp arguments.

    The part that the Europeans are missing is the amazing power of the financial world in the US to finance amazing stories with very large capital and to take on massive risks. China and russia do it with government capital. Europe doesn’t have the bravo to do it.


     
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