Crown

Board: AMG Mercedes Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: AMG GT R

    Kaizu:

    Not really, from Wikipedia for example:

    "Curb weight (US English) or kerb weight (UK English) is the total weight of a vehicle with standard equipment, all necessary operating consumables such as motor oil, transmission oil, coolant, air conditioning refrigerant, and a full tank of fuel, while not loaded with either passengers or cargo."

    The DIN kerb weight in particular that is referred by the factory has all fluids and fuel tank at 90%.

     

    We know Porsche always publish the real DIN weight, but other manufacturers use a different metric, Ferrari for example always uses dry dry dry weight with nothing inside the car and all lightest possible option, so is McLaren. Is Mercedes doing DIN or their own measurement?


    --

     

     


    Re: AMG GT R

    Yes, Mercedes materials say 1555 kg is the kerb weight according to DIN. With 1630 kg being the kerb weight according to EC, including driver 75 kg.

    It's really nothing dramatic that cars end up heavier than advertised, I just thought the spec car had all the lightweight goodies and Mercedes is not offering (or is it?) air con, and radio delete packages (or is it?), so I thought it would be closer to advertised figure.

    Btw. I would be wrong on this if for some strange reason the magazine has measured kerb weight with driver included. Who knows but I doubt as it's called kerb weight for a reason.

     


    --

    996 Turbo / +150hp & -150kg, 7:15 Nürburgring BTG so far...

    Granturismo S MC-Shift / Daily driver with THE sound


    Re: AMG GT R

    Good pricing. Guess they learned the lesson from Honda and the NSX to not price your product out of control versus reality. 


    --

    Tesla Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2014 991 TTS Cab & 2014 BMW X5 & 2014 BMW i3 2017 - Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


    Re: AMG GT R

    noone1:

    So the GTR is 1.2s faster than RC, both on Cup 2.

    And 1200 s faster than you on your bicycle... 😂 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: AMG GT R

    What's the excuse for the GT R being quicker, RC? There must be something wrong with it? 


    --

    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad


    Re: AMG GT R

    IMG_6111.GIF


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: AMG GT R

    kiss


    Re: AMG GT R

    I really don't understand the obsession with weight among amateur drivers. I understand it for pros who making a living driving but a run of a mill driver? Come On! You really need an inflated ego to strip down a car so you can go around a track two seconds faster. It would be like doing the Ring in 8:05 instead of 8:10. Is it really something to brag about?


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: AMG GT R

    Porker:

    What's the excuse for the GT R being quicker, RC? There must be something wrong with it? 

    It seems to be faster on one track but maybe you can get one, I come with the R8 and we can try again. 😎

    Seriously: It is definetely a fast car but straight line, it can't harm the R8 and on the track, well...it comes down 90% to driver skills anyway, so I'm not worried.

    Btw: It was Markus who doubted the peformance of the GT R but since this is a press car and AMG has a "history" with press cars...well...why don't you get yourself one and we can try?! 😉


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: AMG GT R

    nberry:

    I really don't understand the obsession with weight among amateur drivers. I understand it for pros who making a living driving but a run of a mill driver? Come On! You really need an inflated ego to strip down a car so you can go around a track two seconds faster. It would be like doing the Ring in 8:05 instead of 8:10. Is it really something to brag about?

    I have to agree with you on this one. I won't tell my own stories because Mr. Sarcasm and Mr. Hipster won't believe them but I saw Walter Röhrl "destroy" a couple of seriously modded GT3 on the track in his(!) 911 Carrera 4S. 😜


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: AMG GT R

    Fun fact: Wally R destroyed an R8 on the track with an Audi TT. Diesel indecision


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: AMG GT R

    In the Autobild video (done in the context of the above test) they also take off the wheels and you can look at the tires. For whatever reason these tires in the test are (still or again) different from those tires you can see on those very few test cars that are offered for sale on the internet Smiley

    In summary, what we know now is: in a straight line the GTR is slower than its competition. On the track the GTR is quick - but we only have lap times done with non-standard cars on non-standard tires. Chances are that the real cars, i.e. those delivered to customers, are slower in the straight line AND on the track. I would not order one under the assumption it might be quick. Of course, the pricing is attractive and one could consider one if one liked the design and would still like the car if it was outperformed by its relevant competition Smiley


    Re: AMG GT R

    MKSGR:

    In the Autobild video (done in the context of the above they also take off the wheels and you can look at the tires. For whatever reason these tires in the test are (still or again) different from those tires you can see on those very few test cars that are offered for sale on the internet Smiley

    In summary, what we know now is: in a straight line the GTR is slower than its competition. On the track the GTR is quick - but we only have lap times done with non-standard cars on non-standard tires. Chances are that the real cars, i.e. those delivered to customers, are slower in the straight line AND on the track. I would not order one under the assumption it might be quick. Of course, the pricing is attractive and one could consider one if one liked the design and would still like the car if it was outperformed by its relevant competition Smiley

    BTW, I just checked: the one GTR that was offered on mobile.de can no longer be found there.


    Re: AMG GT R

    My chest is full of hair and my d... is of the right size (got references), so i dont ned to compair my self with other mensmiley Laptimes for me is more like golf. I compete only with myself and try to improvisation my own laptimes as much as possible. Hell, I'm a former tennisplayer, so why should i even try to compair my driving skils with Walter Röhl or Timo B or guys that started driving gocarts at the age of two?yes

    But if I can do anything about the material (the car) that could improve my lap times, I'll go for itblushkiss Except maybe the lithium battery. A good long start in the bathroom in the morning would easily take care of that extra weight in an easier way....


    Re: AMG GT R


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: AMG GT R

    RC:
    Porker:

    What's the excuse for the GT R being quicker, RC? There must be something wrong with it? 

    It seems to be faster on one track but maybe you can get one, I come with the R8 and we can try again. 😎

    Seriously: It is definetely a fast car but straight line, it can't harm the R8 and on the track, well...it comes down 90% to driver skills anyway, so I'm not worried.

    Btw: It was Markus who doubted the peformance of the GT R but since this is a press car and AMG has a "history" with press cars...well...why don't you get yourself one and we can try?! 😉

    So if it's down to the driver, you'll definitely have the advantage, right? Smiley

    Kidding aside, I'm very interested in the GT R as a product (don't really care how quick it is). The only thing I'm worried of on the basis of earlier GT's and GT S's is the horrendous depreciation. But given the current demand for the GT R that might be less of an issue with this model.


    --

    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad


    Re: AMG GT R

    Porker:
    RC:
    Porker:

    What's the excuse for the GT R being quicker, RC? There must be something wrong with it? 

    It seems to be faster on one track but maybe you can get one, I come with the R8 and we can try again. 😎

    Seriously: It is definetely a fast car but straight line, it can't harm the R8 and on the track, well...it comes down 90% to driver skills anyway, so I'm not worried.

    Btw: It was Markus who doubted the peformance of the GT R but since this is a press car and AMG has a "history" with press cars...well...why don't you get yourself one and we can try?! 😉

    So if it's down to the driver, you'll definitely have the advantage, right? Smiley

    Kidding aside, I'm very interested in the GT R as a product (don't really care how quick it is). The only thing I'm worried of on the basis of earlier GT's and GT S's is the horrendous depreciation. But given the current demand for the GT R that might be less of an issue with this model.

    I am not so sure if demand for the GTR is high - there is just no (zero) supply... So everything is very much distorted by the delayed SOP Smiley


    Re: AMG GT R

    Well the dealer claims so, but if anyone would make such a claim... smiley


    --

    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad


    Re: AMG GT R

    The farmer:

    My chest is full of hair and my d... is of the right size (got references), so i dont ned to compair my self with other mensmiley Laptimes for me is more like golf. I compete only with myself and try to improvisation my own laptimes as much as possible. Hell, I'm a former tennisplayer, so why should i even try to compair my driving skils with Walter Röhl or Timo B or guys that started driving gocarts at the age of two?yes

    But if I can do anything about the material (the car) that could improve my lap times, I'll go for itblushkiss Except maybe the lithium battery. A good long start in the bathroom in the morning would easily take care of that extra weight in an easier way....

     

    I can verify that claim. He keep going to the bathroom when we are on the track at Leipzig.

    "but I think he went to puke cause he can't handle the G-force from the Cup cars"Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: AMG GT R

    bluelines:

    Fun fact: Wally R destroyed an R8 on the track with an Audi TT. Diesel indecision

    Not mine... 😎


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: AMG GT R

    Porker:
    RC:
    Porker:

    What's the excuse for the GT R being quicker, RC? There must be something wrong with it? 

    It seems to be faster on one track but maybe you can get one, I come with the R8 and we can try again. 😎

    Seriously: It is definetely a fast car but straight line, it can't harm the R8 and on the track, well...it comes down 90% to driver skills anyway, so I'm not worried.

    Btw: It was Markus who doubted the peformance of the GT R but since this is a press car and AMG has a "history" with press cars...well...why don't you get yourself one and we can try?! 😉

    So if it's down to the driver, you'll definitely have the advantage, right? Smiley

    Yes...  

    You can mod a car as much as you want but in the end, it always comes down to the driver. So instead of wasting tons of money for chassis mods and whatnot, you better put this money into serious track training.

    The question is only: What for? If you want to drive in the Porsche Cup or similar events, OK but for some track fun on weekends, a standard car with semi-slicks will do as well. Usually these harmless events are a lot of fun with friends. Unless you have the time and money to do proper training for whatever reasons. I would never get into professional motorsports again, it is a waste of time and money if you don't do it right.

    Kidding aside, I'm very interested in the GT R as a product (don't really care how quick it is). The only thing I'm worried of on the basis of earlier GT's and GT S's is the horrendous depreciation. But given the current demand for the GT R that might be less of an issue with this model.

    Not sure that a GT R will make you happy but there is always a depreciation risk involved. If you really like this car, go for it but keep in mind that a sheep won't become a wolf just because it is badass. 😉


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: AMG GT R

    Sportauto now published the Hockenheim test of the same test car they used for the NBR test last year.

    - Car has approx. 40hp more than customer car spec

    Two lap times:

    - 1.06,3 with the "special" Cup tires also used on the NBR

    - 1s slower with "normal" Cup tires

    - with regular tires (as supplied to customers): no numbers given...

    In summary, all this confirms the suspicions we had. A customer car with normal hp output and non-Cup tires will not be quicker than a turbo Smiley  In the straight line, the turbo is even quicker.


    Re: AMG GT R

    Since when do they engine dyno cars?

    Stick track day tires on your track day car and the number stands. Why would you want to track your car with crappy street oriented tires? We already know that the latest generation compounds are a massive improvement. No reason to think they won't be available for customers.

    IMO, the car does as they said it would initially. 1.06.3 is as quick as the 918.


    Re: AMG GT R

    Interesting, do you have more data about the Hockenheim test? Scans? The press cars I have seen have been with "M spec" Cup tires, "M0" markings on the tires. Are they the special tires or the normal tires? Which tires the customers get, according to catalogue only one option? Can you go and buy the better ones from a dealer or tire shop?

    I am thinking have the different tires something to do with some random silly new regulations? Smiley

    For example, perhaps car companies cannot sell a car with too aggressive tires due to silly regulations of wet performance, drive noise, or rolling resistance? That's why they couple years ago stopped producing original Michelin Cup tires, and started doing Cup2 with improved wet performance, but less dry performance. And could that be the case that bit similarly to this GT R you cannot order (at least yet) Huracan Performante with the sticky Trofeo R tires like the record car had, but only with Corsa tires? I guess you can buy the Trofeo R's from your tire dealer for the Lambo...How it is with Mercedes tires?

    Another silly thing I'm spotting increasingly is the different fuel tanks, why so many new cars have bigger fuel tank as a low cost option? Once again GT R has the option of 10L larger fuel tank for small money. Wouldn't it be more profitable for the company to design and source only one fuel tank and not options of say 65L and a 75L volume tank? Is this once again something to do with silly regulations thanks to EU or whatever that only x y z amount of emissions is allowed with a single tank, and the bigger fuel tank is not counted as it's an option... Smiley  Just a random guess Smiley


    --

     

    996 Turbo / +150hp & -150kg, 7:15 Nürburgring BTG so far...

     

    Granturismo S MC-Shift / Daily driver with THE sound


    Re: AMG GT R

    noone1:

    Since when do they engine dyno cars?

    Stick track day tires on your track day car and the number stands. Why would you want to track your car with crappy street oriented tires? We already know that the latest generation compounds are a massive improvement. No reason to think they won't be available for customers.

    IMO, the car does as they said it would initially. 1.06.3 is as quick as the 918.

    They have been dynoing cars for the last years.

    The "special" Cup tires are not available to the market (pre-production). Maybe at a later stage. Of course, using such special prototype tires improves the lap times - but it does no tell us anything about the qualities of the car. I.e. useless test Smiley Only good for the marketing...


    Re: AMG GT R

    Kaizu:

    Interesting, do you have more data about the Hockenheim test? Scans? The press cars I have seen have been with "M spec" Cup tires, "M0" markings on the tires. Are they the special tires or the normal tires? Which tires the customers get, according to catalogue only one option? Can you go and buy the better ones from a dealer or tire shop?

    I am thinking have the different tires something to do with some random silly new regulations? Smiley

    For example, perhaps car companies cannot sell a car with too aggressive tires due to silly regulations of wet performance, drive noise, or rolling resistance? That's why they couple years ago stopped producing original Michelin Cup tires, and started doing Cup2 with improved wet performance, but less dry performance. And could that be the case that bit similarly to this GT R you cannot order (at least yet) Huracan Performante with the sticky Trofeo R tires like the record car had, but only with Corsa tires? I guess you can buy the Trofeo R's from your tire dealer for the Lambo...How it is with Mercedes tires?

    Another silly thing I'm spotting increasingly is the different fuel tanks, why so many new cars have bigger fuel tank as a low cost option? Once again GT R has the option of 10L larger fuel tank for small money. Wouldn't it be more profitable for the company to design and source only one fuel tank and not options of say 65L and a 75L volume tank? Is this once again something to do with silly regulations thanks to EU or whatever that only x y z amount of emissions is allowed with a single tank, and the bigger fuel tank is not counted as it's an option... Smiley  Just a random guess Smiley


    --

     

    996 Turbo / +150hp & -150kg, 7:15 Nürburgring BTG so far...

     

    Granturismo S MC-Shift / Daily driver with THE sound

    Very good questions Smiley Unfortunately, I cannot tell the answers. We will find out more and more as soon as more data becomes available Smiley


    Re: AMG GT R

    nberry:

    I really don't understand the obsession with weight among amateur drivers. I understand it for pros who making a living driving but a run of a mill driver? Come On! You really need an inflated ego to strip down a car so you can go around a track two seconds faster. It would be like doing the Ring in 8:05 instead of 8:10. Is it really something to brag about?

     

    Weight is an important concept among amateur drivers who spend lot of time on race tracks. More weight causes more tire wear, more brake wear, and more suspension wear.

    And it's not only about the wear rate, also durability of the car. The lighter the car, the longer it takes for overheating of above mentioned parts, for example.

    A pro driver can do one fast lap with a heavy car but go and drive the same heavy car as an amateur for a track day and you gonna end up in problems. This is the norm on any track day. I am not saying 60 kg is anything critical, but the less weight the better. And when you speak about lap times, I think everyone would be happier with a car that does a 8:00 lap and weighs 1500 kg than with a faster but heavier car that does 7:50 lap (before overheating the tires...) and weighs 1800 kg.

    Great example (from 10 years ago, when the GTR did not have any updates), would you drive a 997 GT3 or a Nissan GTR as an amateur driver on race tracks? That's an easy pick to choose the lighter and slower car...


    --

    996 Turbo / +150hp & -150kg, 7:15 Nürburgring BTG so far...

    Granturismo S MC-Shift / Daily driver with THE sound


    Re: AMG GT R

    very well said ! kiss - most People still bragging about their HP's and 0 to whatever times.....


    Re: AMG GT R

    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    Since when do they engine dyno cars?

    Stick track day tires on your track day car and the number stands. Why would you want to track your car with crappy street oriented tires? We already know that the latest generation compounds are a massive improvement. No reason to think they won't be available for customers.

    IMO, the car does as they said it would initially. 1.06.3 is as quick as the 918.

    They have been dynoing cars for the last years.

    The "special" Cup tires are not available to the market (pre-production). Maybe at a later stage. Of course, using such special prototype tires improves the lap times - but it does no tell us anything about the qualities of the car. I.e. useless test Smiley Only good for the marketing...

    Nothing but a professional set up engine dyno is accurate. 40 hp is just error in such high powered cars.

    600 hp car
    2% incorrect drivetrain loss estimate
    2% engine variance
    3% rolling dyno inaccuracy

    Now you're already possibly 7% off, which is 42 hp on a 600 hp car.


    Re: AMG GT R

    noone1:
    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    Since when do they engine dyno cars?

    Stick track day tires on your track day car and the number stands. Why would you want to track your car with crappy street oriented tires? We already know that the latest generation compounds are a massive improvement. No reason to think they won't be available for customers.

    IMO, the car does as they said it would initially. 1.06.3 is as quick as the 918.

    They have been dynoing cars for the last years.

    The "special" Cup tires are not available to the market (pre-production). Maybe at a later stage. Of course, using such special prototype tires improves the lap times - but it does no tell us anything about the qualities of the car. I.e. useless test Smiley Only good for the marketing...

    Nothing but a professional set up engine dyno is accurate. 40 hp is just error in such high powered cars.

    600 hp car
    2% incorrect drivetrain loss estimate
    2% engine variance
    3% rolling dyno inaccuracy

    Now you're already possibly 7% off, which is 42 hp on a 600 hp car.

    You can be sure they have the knowhow and equipment to do proper tests...

    BTW, a car with this much deviation from stated hp would be illegal to use on European roads


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 12/15/18 10:01 AM
    Na Mezger
    409273 5202
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 12/13/18 8:47 PM
    Enmanuel
    324197 2007
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/8/18 8:33 AM
    Joost
     
     
     
     
     
    213212 1083
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 12/14/18 5:41 AM
    the-missile
    198933 2680
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 12/16/18 8:54 AM
    GnilM
    128159 2443
    AMG Sticky Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 12/6/18 3:34 PM
    RCA
    34208 321
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 12/16/18 3:04 PM
    Wonderbar
    20259 320
    Porsche Sticky Paint protection film 9/25/18 6:14 PM
    throt
    14431 121
    Porsche Sticky Child seats in a 991 11/29/18 3:43 PM
    RCA
    13868 35
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS 1/9/18 1:43 PM
    Kimi
    527355 5816
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 4/3/18 9:15 AM
    KresoF1
    484274 4254
    Porsche 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) Thread Closed 11/29/18 11:38 AM
    RCA
    297278 3195
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 9/13/18 10:12 AM
    RCA
    281145 2589
    Porsche Cayman GT4 11/29/18 3:41 PM
    xpto
    266929 2622
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S 1/23/18 12:27 AM
    RCA
    192203 1074
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 11/26/18 11:32 AM
    Rossi
    191927 1768
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 12/16/18 1:27 PM
    hunterone
    183844 3295
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 12/16/18 12:50 AM
    RCA
    151915 2485
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 8/31/18 10:25 AM
    WAY
    143264 757
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 1/6/18 10:41 PM
    Wonderbar
    129019 1284
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 5/22/18 9:16 PM
    RCA
    112004 789
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 5/3/18 7:52 PM
    CGX car nut
    106812 871
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 12/10/18 3:41 PM
    WhoopsyM
    90138 1252
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 12/7/18 10:15 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    67305 673
    Porsche UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne 2/6/18 2:13 PM
    RCA
    57510 423
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/3/18 11:09 AM
    bluelines
    47147 477
    Others Tesla Roadster 12/15/18 10:10 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    47061 1491
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    43007 1122
    AMG AMG GT R 11/30/18 4:10 PM
    RCA
    42278 605
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo S Exclusive Series (2017) 12/4/18 3:17 PM
    BiTurbo
    39783 650
    280 items found, displaying 1 to 30.