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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:

    Agree on Volkswagen and history.   When one spoke of testing protocol re: Tesla, documentation isn’t a requirement but seeing physical evidence of product testing in the field, before it is made available to consumers, is helpful.  All the major automakers conduct computer based analysis followed with a rigorous test program before the vehicle is offered for sale.   This process requires millions and millions of past and current CapEx, yet there is no evidence that Tesla has made that investment.

    For example, on the Model 3, Tesla recently released an OTA update that enabled rear seat heating.   It appears that all Model 3s produced were constructed with the heating elements in the rear seats, yet it took nearly nine months of production time for the software to enable that feature.   What else isn’t complete? This may seem minor; however Tesla didn’t include controls for the rear seat passengers.  Those rear seat heaters only operate from the central display panel.

    Final point on the subject.   About thirty years ago, the foremost business writer in Japan wrote “The Honda Myth” describing the early days of Honda Motors.  Honda understood engines but not the other systems of an automobile.  As a result, Japan’s regulatory agencies almost put Honda out of business several times in the 1960s.  Ford entered the picture with a joint venture with Honda to develop clean engine technologies after the adoption of the Clean Air Act of 1970.   Ford engineers were so appalled by Honda’s lack of standards and procedures that they sent Honda their protocols, at that time, dozens of hardcopy volumes.  Honda utilized that information to improve its process and procedures as Ford was being strangled by the McNamara Whiz Kids in Finance.

    Musk continues to demonstrate his overbearing personality through micromanagement and “first principles” technobabble that excite his many cultists, but these actions are irreversibly harming the potential of the company.   SpaceX is a great company, in part, because Musk isn’t meddling in it on a daily basis.

    How about you actually post evidence of all the massive problems this has caused Tesla rather than assume their cars are so inherently flawed due to lack of testing? Maybe the reality is that technology has proven we don't need to do stuff like we did in 1970.

    I don't see them breaking down everywhere, owners are happy, they're getting good reviews, people want them. What else matters?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The nail in the coffin for the old guard is that they need to be sued into doing what's smart.

    That $2B is part of a settlement. They quite possibly wouldn't have done it otherwise, and that's proof of how dumb they are. Even dumber is Porsche saying how they are going to charge petrol prices for charging lol


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    Sorry RC but Tesla proves the exact opposite since they are always updating the software... Porsche and such better take note of that too, because EV software needs to evolves faster..

     

    Software can only do so much until the hardware becomes the bottom neck.

    I believe Tesla already quietly updated the hardware one, the Nvidia processing unit shipping now was like 40 times more powerful than the original shipping one, I think I read somewhere the last couple days.

    But even with the more powerful processor, it would seems it is still not powerful enough to do all the calculations Tesla would like to have for true autopilot/autonomous driving and no one knows how much more powerful the processor needed to be, it is a ongoing moving goal post.

    Tesla skipped LIDAR technology and wanted to only rely on radar and regular optical camera imaging like human eyes seeing things for their auto-driving, but that's where things go wrong, no processors currently available are nearly powerful enough like a human brain to process those kind of information in real time.

    On top of that, it would seems at that technological fork, Tesla is the only one picking that route, everyone else went on a different path using LIDAR. IF Tesla is successful is solving that technological barrier, they would be golden, if not, they will need to backtrack and go the LIDAR route, that would put them way behind others. It's the down side to be a trail blazer, sometimes the trail leads nowhere, other times it is the short cut. 

    Time will tell.

    Updated processor hardware only goes so far.  It is the overall electronic architecture of the product that needs updating too.   Almost all, include Tesla, rely on the CAN or Car Area Network, standard for module communications.  About fifteen years ago a consortium of some automakers and suppliers introduced the FlexRay standard increase bandwidth with moderate sucess.  This, in part, has led to the separate 48 volt systems found on premium product.  However, until network speeds and bandwidth increase, latency remains a stubborn problem with autonomous systems. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    1524154042807image.png

    1524154155971image.png

    Combine the product with the charging system, https://insideevs.com/vw-electrify-america-to-use-abb-btc-power-efacec-and-signet-fast-chargers/ and Volkswagen Group because of the Diesel issues looks poised to take a commanding lead in EVs.   For those unaware, Volkswagen, as part of its settlement with the EPA and Carb has set aside $2 billion to form the Electrify America subsidiary.  

    VW Group is certainly making significant investments...

    1524162667478image.jpeg

    Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    That figure doesn’t include the R&D expenditures of its Tier One supplier network either.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I like this!porsche_mission_e_-_rear_watermarked.jpgporsche_mission_e_-_front_watermarked.jpg


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    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    looking good kiss


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    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Hopefully this helps slows or even stops the EV advance.

    https://www.autoblog.com/2018/04/25/bosch-diesel-emissions-breakthrough/


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    For the USA it is already too late and diesel is dead for good anyway (it never really took off). In Europe maybe it will have some effect but they will not fight the trend.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    For passenger car usage, VAG will never go back to diesel. The trucking division however might still be a viable option.


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    For passenger car usage, VAG will never go back to diesel. The trucking division however might still be a viable option.

    Huge Diesel offensive planned from Audi (don't know about others...)...Q8 RS (with petrol V8 Biturbo though) coming as well this year. Just saying.

    There is no real alternative to Diesel cars in the short run if they want to keep fleet consumption/CO2 low.

    The only thing which could really kill the Diesel in Germany would be raising the Diesel tax and/or massive EV incentives.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    And face extra extra tight scrutiny from EU and others for the Diesel engines.........................


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    And face extra extra tight scrutiny from EU and others for the Diesel engines.........................

    New Diesel engines will be at least Euro 6d TEMP and will be "super clean"...

    Also, they already advertise (similar to BMW) with that "switching guarantee" that their cars will be "safe" from any kind of future driving restrictions. So if you lease a car and there is going to be a driving restriction within 100 km of your location (home address), they will give you the choice to switch to a different similar car (which is "permitted") at (almost) no extra cost.

    Manufacturers want to keep the Diesel until the EVs are ready to go for a mass market (incl. incentives, charging infrastructure, etc.).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    France has started years ago to close the huge tax advantage of diesel vs petrol...



    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I really hope that is one heck of a fat suit it's wearing because it really looks nothing like the concept from what I can recall of it.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I am sure this is a "fat suit". If they start putting out these "movies" does this mean the unveiling is imminent?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    They dress it up as a Panamera and they called it the Panamera at Weissach.


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Let's start the cocoon discussions! 


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The shenanigans at VW have caught up with Porsche https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/porsche-diesel-recall-53000-macans-and-6750-cayennes-affected


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    ISUK:

    The shenanigans at VW have caught up with Porsche https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/porsche-diesel-recall-53000-macans-and-6750-cayennes-affected

    It already happened last week, thank god my wife already returned her Cayenne S Diesel, no worries anymore. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porsche dinner tonight in Sydney with Mark Webber. Theme was Porsche E Performance.

    He spoke about his drive in the Mission E recently. Had been asking for some time about a first drive but only recently the engineers were happy enough with the product to let him behind the wheel. Mark was a great speaker and appeared genuinely enthusiastic about the car. Impressive performance, range and recharging statistics.

    Name to be released soon. Possibly June 8...

    IMG_2181.JPG

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Driven! The Porsche Mission E Cross Turismo Concept Electric Vehicle

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBADJfA5Bo4

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    He seems a bit nervious and not very confident, when talking about sound in electrics. From min 6.30


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Name in 8th of June? You mean the name of the car will not be Mission E?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    E Sound: normal 

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I think Porsche themselves have referred to the Mission E as a concept study.

    The name of the production model is still to come.

    I suspect Whoopsy knows... buried behind one of those NDAs!


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Yeah it's gonna be called Freddy der Porsche.


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    Yeah it's gonna be called Freddy der Porsche.

     

    Or Ferry...? Smiley

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferry_Porsche

    Blueflame


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Ferdinand!


     
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