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    Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    The S7 TT could not finish the test. Apparently the front spoiler touched the ground at about 280km/h due to excessive downforce.

    LP640 / SLR / RT12
    0-100 3,3 / 3,9 / 3,4
    0-200 11,1 / 11,1 / 9,8
    0-250 18,5 / 18,6 / 15,4
    0-300 33,3 / 36,3 / 24,8

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    That really sucks they have no numbers for the S7. Guaranteed that would have been the fastest by far...

    Veyron power with only 2500lbs.

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    RT12 performance is behond real, puts to shame a supercar like LP640, CGT and even the Enzo, never tought it could be so fast.

    J.Seven

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    95jersey said:
    That really sucks they have no numbers for the S7. Guaranteed that would have been the fastest by far...

    Veyron power with only 2500lbs.



    They have no numbers for the S7 as this car seems to be misconstructed. The downforce at around 280kph was that strong that the front wing touched the ground Dangerous piece of crap (sorry).

    P.S.: Up to 250kph the S7 is the slowest car in the test, nearly 4s slower than the RT12

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Awesome! The LP640 is quicker than the SLR

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Awesome! The LP640 is quicker than the SLR



    Exactly, this test confirms the previous AMS test results

    BTW, the new sportauto contains a supertest of the LP640 (test car with Pirelli Corsa tires):

    NBR 7:47
    HHR 1:11.8
    0-200: 11.2s
    200-0: 135.7m
    Weight: 1805kg

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Awesome! The LP640 is quicker than the SLR



    Exactly, this test confirms the previous AMS test results

    BTW, the new sportauto contains a supertest of the LP640 (test car with Pirelli Corsa tires):

    NBR 7:47
    HHR 1:11.8
    0-200: 11.2s
    200-0: 135.7m
    Weight: 1805kg



    Regarding the Sport Auto test

    If I may go offtopic, could you please provide the number for the 36 metre slalom

    Thanks ,

    Bruce


    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Awesome! The LP640 is quicker than the SLR



    Exactly, this test confirms the previous AMS test results

    BTW, the new sportauto contains a supertest of the LP640 (test car with Pirelli Corsa tires):

    NBR 7:47
    HHR 1:11.8
    0-200: 11.2s
    200-0: 135.7m
    Weight: 1805kg



    Interesting...Pirelli Corsas aren't street-oriented, rain-compatible tires, correct?....adjusting data for normal, street perf tires, 640's N and HH times are no better than ancient Murci times....

    And given 997TT's unremarkable rumored N-ring times...again adjusting data for silly, non-street tires, it seems car mfrs have hit a wall in terms of materially improved N-ring times, despite more hp/tq, faster trannies, more advcd stab ctrls, etc.....

    Will be interesting to see 599's N and HH times....esp given latest issue of Autocar claims 997TT eats 599 in bumpy twisties......

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    Pagani Fanatic said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Awesome! The LP640 is quicker than the SLR



    Exactly, this test confirms the previous AMS test results

    BTW, the new sportauto contains a supertest of the LP640 (test car with Pirelli Corsa tires):

    NBR 7:47
    HHR 1:11.8
    0-200: 11.2s
    200-0: 135.7m
    Weight: 1805kg



    Regarding the Sport Auto test

    If I may go offtopic, could you please provide the number for the 36 metre slalom

    Thanks ,

    Bruce





    Sure:

    36m slalom: 134kph
    110m lane change: 153kph

    Are you interested in any other metrics?


    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Pagani Fanatic said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Awesome! The LP640 is quicker than the SLR



    Exactly, this test confirms the previous AMS test results

    BTW, the new sportauto contains a supertest of the LP640 (test car with Pirelli Corsa tires):

    NBR 7:47
    HHR 1:11.8
    0-200: 11.2s
    200-0: 135.7m
    Weight: 1805kg



    Regarding the Sport Auto test

    If I may go offtopic, could you please provide the number for the 36 metre slalom

    Thanks ,

    Bruce





    Sure:

    36m slalom: 134kph
    110m lane change: 153kph

    Are you interested in any other metrics?





    Thanks a lot man

    I'm also curious what it achieved on the wethandling course, cornering G's, 0-200-0 and 18m slalom

    Thanks!

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Awesome! The LP640 is quicker than the SLR



    Exactly, this test confirms the previous AMS test results

    BTW, the new sportauto contains a supertest of the LP640 (test car with Pirelli Corsa tires):

    NBR 7:47
    HHR 1:11.8
    0-200: 11.2s
    200-0: 135.7m
    Weight: 1805kg



    Interesting...Pirelli Corsas aren't street-oriented, rain-compatible tires, correct?....adjusting data for normal, street perf tires, 640's N and HH times are no better than ancient Murci times....

    And given 997TT's unremarkable rumored N-ring times...again adjusting data for silly, non-street tires, it seems car mfrs have hit a wall in terms of materially improved N-ring times, despite more hp/tq, faster trannies, more advcd stab ctrls, etc.....

    Will be interesting to see 599's N and HH times....esp given latest issue of Autocar claims 997TT eats 599 in bumpy twisties......



    You are right, the LP640 is being critized for its new suspension setup (lots of understeer, apparently). sportauto states that this too much of understeer is the major reason behind the rather small lap time improvements vs the LP580.

    BTW: sportauto states that the supertest of the 997TT has been done already. The test car was equipped with Michelin Sport Cup tires (thus, not PS2) and did HHR in 1:11.9s.

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Looks like the 997TT has the sam NBR time than the LP640. Not bad with 160hp deficit.

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    http://videos.streetfire.net/video/ad6320d5-3eb1-4fe6-8264-987f00fe9026.htm


    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Looks like the 997TT has the sam NBR time than the LP640. Not bad with 160hp deficit.



    Assuming that the 997TT is equipped with Michelin Sport Cup tires, not PS2.

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Markus,
    Remember old 500hp Gallardo times from Sport Auto Supertest?
    Hockenheim 1.11,8min
    Ring 7.52min
    Pirelli Corsa tires

    Since new 520hp version is little bit faster(1.11,6min) then old version times achiveb by LP640(1.11,8min) and 997 Turbo(1.11,9min) are nothing special IMHO.

    BTW, 997 Turbo was featuring PCCBs, Michelin Cups and LSD(manual, of course).

    And now we all know that sport tires(Michelin Cups and Pirelli Corsas) are around 1.5s-2s faster around Hockenheim then normal tires.

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Markus,
    Remember old 500hp Gallardo times from Sport Auto Supertest?
    Hockenheim 1.11,8min
    Ring 7.52min
    Pirelli Corsa tires

    Since new 520hp version is little bit faster(1.11,6min) then old version times achiveb by LP640(1.11,8min) and 997 Turbo(1.11,9min) are nothing special IMHO.

    BTW, 997 Turbo was featuring PCCBs, Michelin Cups and LSD(manual, of course).

    And now we all know that sport tires(Michelin Cups and Pirelli Corsas) are around 1.5s-2s faster around Hockenheim then normal tires.



    Agreed, both Lambo's are faster than the 997TT

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Awesome! The LP640 is quicker than the SLR



    Exactly, this test confirms the previous AMS test results

    BTW, the new sportauto contains a supertest of the LP640 (test car with Pirelli Corsa tires):

    NBR 7:47
    HHR 1:11.8
    0-200: 11.2s
    200-0: 135.7m
    Weight: 1805kg



    Interesting...Pirelli Corsas aren't street-oriented, rain-compatible tires, correct?....adjusting data for normal, street perf tires, 640's N and HH times are no better than ancient Murci times....

    And given 997TT's unremarkable rumored N-ring times...again adjusting data for silly, non-street tires, it seems car mfrs have hit a wall in terms of materially improved N-ring times, despite more hp/tq, faster trannies, more advcd stab ctrls, etc.....

    Will be interesting to see 599's N and HH times....esp given latest issue of Autocar claims 997TT eats 599 in bumpy twisties......



    The only relevant sportscars in the last generation to come out, that have been able to shave time off in the NBR are lightweight street-track cars (e.g. CGT, CSL).
    Here's basically the reason why:

    The new influx of high-power, high weight cars (599, LP640, 997TT) aren't engineered to be trackmonsters simply because of their weight. It's like Ron Dennis said, when equating hp/weight ratio, it isn't a simple formula. Weight has no substitute; not even power.

    These new cars with their incredulous hp/tq numerics are made to make the average cup of joe richboy driver fast, not the saavy pro. Any racecar driver will bawk at any of these pigish cars' abilities to lap the ring. They'd rather have a nice 400hp lightweight monster...

    Thus, NBR is becoming less relavent, while HHM #s are getting slashed as the track is more of a barometer to these cars with better breaks, more hp (not nec. df setup).

    my op..

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Awesome! The LP640 is quicker than the SLR



    Exactly, this test confirms the previous AMS test results

    BTW, the new sportauto contains a supertest of the LP640 (test car with Pirelli Corsa tires):

    NBR 7:47
    HHR 1:11.8
    0-200: 11.2s
    200-0: 135.7m
    Weight: 1805kg



    Interesting...Pirelli Corsas aren't street-oriented, rain-compatible tires, correct?....adjusting data for normal, street perf tires, 640's N and HH times are no better than ancient Murci times....

    And given 997TT's unremarkable rumored N-ring times...again adjusting data for silly, non-street tires, it seems car mfrs have hit a wall in terms of materially improved N-ring times, despite more hp/tq, faster trannies, more advcd stab ctrls, etc.....

    Will be interesting to see 599's N and HH times....esp given latest issue of Autocar claims 997TT eats 599 in bumpy twisties......



    The only relevant sportscars in the last generation to come out, that have been able to shave time off in the NBR are lightweight street-track cars (e.g. CGT, CSL).
    Here's basically the reason why:

    The new influx of high-power, high weight cars (599, LP640, 997TT) aren't engineered to be trackmonsters simply because of their weight. It's like Ron Dennis said, when equating hp/weight ratio, it isn't a simple formula. Weight has no substitute; not even power.

    These new cars with their incredulous hp/tq numerics are made to make the average cup of joe richboy driver fast, not the saavy pro. Any racecar driver will bawk at any of these pigish cars' abilities to lap the ring. They'd rather have a nice 400hp lightweight monster...

    Thus, NBR is becoming less relavent, while HHM #s are getting slashed as the track is more of a barometer to these cars with better breaks, more hp (not nec. df setup).

    my op..



    Good observations....but also wonder whether N-Ring's bumpy surface (more akin to a bumpy mtn twisties road than a flat, smooth pavement track) creates a chassis damping challenge for many of today's latest-tech, daily-usable cars that need to be calibrated for many different real-world road surfaces....

    Keep hearing mutterings that 997TT is faster around N-Ring w/PASM in non-Sport dampers mode than in Sport PASM dampers mode....and latest Autocar is first back-to-back qualitative drive of 997TT vs 599 on bumpy twisties (that I've seen in print) that claims 599 struggles w/imperfect road surfaces vs 997TT....

    Will get 599 next wk to start doing own amateur, back-to-back, subjective-feel assessments in twisties vs 997TT and SL65 (if it stops raining for a few days in SF)...

    If one wants a fast car that's only capable on a smooth pavement track in ideal weather, why bother w/any street-legal cars like Enzo/CGT that lack PSM/other safety features for street use, yet also suffer all the detuning/compromises/added wt needed for street duty, when one can simply get a more-focused FXX for track purposes? On my usual wkend mtn twisties, I prefer a car that feels precise and fast (and is aurally engaging) in the hands of a mere decent amateur driver ....and that will maximize my odds of being injury-free post-collision when an oncoming 6000lb SUV suddenly shows up in my lane....real-world public road risks for which a solo FXX on a private, bought-out track doesn't need to be engineered/bulked-up...

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    95jersey said:
    That really sucks they have no numbers for the S7. Guaranteed that would have been the fastest by far...

    Veyron power with only 2500lbs.



    Thought the exact same

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    BC911 said:
    Quote:
    95jersey said:
    That really sucks they have no numbers for the S7. Guaranteed that would have been the fastest by far...

    Veyron power with only 2500lbs.



    Thought the exact same



    You were wrong as well, then.

    Quote:
    They have no numbers for the S7 as this car seems to be misconstructed. The downforce at around 280kph was that strong that the front wing touched the ground Dangerous piece of crap (sorry).

    P.S.: Up to 250kph the S7 is the slowest car in the test, nearly 4s slower than the RT12


    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Saleen S7 TT
    0-100 4,2
    0-200 11,8

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Awesome! The LP640 is quicker than the SLR



    Exactly, this test confirms the previous AMS test results

    BTW, the new sportauto contains a supertest of the LP640 (test car with Pirelli Corsa tires):

    NBR 7:47
    HHR 1:11.8
    0-200: 11.2s
    200-0: 135.7m
    Weight: 1805kg



    Interesting...Pirelli Corsas aren't street-oriented, rain-compatible tires, correct?....adjusting data for normal, street perf tires, 640's N and HH times are no better than ancient Murci times....

    And given 997TT's unremarkable rumored N-ring times...again adjusting data for silly, non-street tires, it seems car mfrs have hit a wall in terms of materially improved N-ring times, despite more hp/tq, faster trannies, more advcd stab ctrls, etc.....

    Will be interesting to see 599's N and HH times....esp given latest issue of Autocar claims 997TT eats 599 in bumpy twisties......



    The only relevant sportscars in the last generation to come out, that have been able to shave time off in the NBR are lightweight street-track cars (e.g. CGT, CSL).
    Here's basically the reason why:

    The new influx of high-power, high weight cars (599, LP640, 997TT) aren't engineered to be trackmonsters simply because of their weight. It's like Ron Dennis said, when equating hp/weight ratio, it isn't a simple formula. Weight has no substitute; not even power.

    These new cars with their incredulous hp/tq numerics are made to make the average cup of joe richboy driver fast, not the saavy pro. Any racecar driver will bawk at any of these pigish cars' abilities to lap the ring. They'd rather have a nice 400hp lightweight monster...

    Thus, NBR is becoming less relavent, while HHM #s are getting slashed as the track is more of a barometer to these cars with better breaks, more hp (not nec. df setup).

    my op..



    Very interesting.

    I also read in a previous EVO issue from the 997 GT3 project manager during its launch in the north of Paris that it is extremely hard to gain only a few seconds once you get under the 8-min barrier. It is called the law of diminushing return.
    To substantiate his word he compared the NBR track time of the Carrera GT vs the GT3RS's in the hand of WR : Carrera GT is "only" 10 sec faster (circa 7h32 vs 7h42) despite a 200-bhp advantage and a track-dedicated engineered chassis (Both cars have approximately the same weight).

    Notice his words may have to be taken with caution since they are coming from a Porsche representative during an official press launch

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    Ziggy said:
    [..] compared the NBR track time of the Carrera GT vs the GT3RS's in the hand of WR : Carrera GT is "only" 10 sec faster (circa 7h32 vs 7h42) despite a 200-bhp advantage and a track-dedicated engineered chassis [...]



    I agree with you. I talked to the head of a very exklusive sportscar manufacturer, whos name I'd like to skip on the net, who stated that the CGTs time of around 7 1/2 min. on the Nordschleife is remarkable and will be hard to beat by any other manufacturer with a car of similiar size and composition. One should bear in mind that a company as Porsche has to fulfill higher compulsory standards than a small-volume or kitkar manufacturer.

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Quote:
    Ziggy said:
    [..] compared the NBR track time of the Carrera GT vs the GT3RS's in the hand of WR : Carrera GT is "only" 10 sec faster (circa 7h32 vs 7h42) despite a 200-bhp advantage and a track-dedicated engineered chassis [...]



    I agree with you. I talked to the head of a very exklusive sportscar manufacturer, whos name I'd like to skip on the net, who stated that the CGTs time of around 7 1/2 min. on the Nordschleife is remarkable and will be hard to beat by any other manufacturer with a car of similiar size and composition. One should bear in mind that a company as Porsche has to fulfill higher compulsory standards than a small-volume or kitkar manufacturer.



    I agree. In terms of street-legal technology, I think we're reaching a plateau via LDR... Without superslicks, exceeedingly ridiculous body-structure, unsuitable street suspensions exhausts etc... I don't think below 7:15 is achievable unless there is a remarkable innovation of technology.

    Of course there will be

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    VKSF said:

    Will get 599 next wk to start doing own amateur, back-to-back, subjective-feel assessments in twisties vs 997TT and SL65 (if it stops raining for a few days in SF)...





    Can't wait to read your reflections

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:

    Will get 599 next wk to start doing own amateur, back-to-back, subjective-feel assessments in twisties vs 997TT and SL65 (if it stops raining for a few days in SF)...





    Can't wait to read your reflections



    Well, the weather forecast is some 5-7 dry days ahead

    Was driving around my usual (semi-dry, given the recent incessant rain) twisties in my humble CL550 today (and had two near-misses within 30 mins w/oncoming guys who couldn't stay in their own lane in their 10yo, <$10K cars...Darwinian selection may prevail, given who drives what car/how competently they seem to drive ) .....and it occurred to me, that given EU's culture of smaller urban regions where affluent typically just drive a few blocks from home to office in central Lond/Munich, where cars cost 30%+ more than in US (w/unfavorable lease/tax financing costs) and fuel is near $10/gall, it's not really surprising that US generally has awful pavement, heavy rush-hr traffic on 80MPH+ traffic-flow CA fwys and many, many inept drivers (dangerously) armed w/6000lb POS SUVs...unlike their middle-class EU counterparts, who often commute via walking/bus/train or ?3000lb diesel POS (more akin to Manhattan's commute patterns ).....

    Suspect that SF/SilicVy may be unique place on planet w/high-speed (even in rush-hr) urban fwys and mtn twisties where guys w/599/65/997TT use their toys on a daily basis (even on rainy wkdays ) and demand cars that can withstand poss collisions in this real-world, heterogenous environment of general affluence, cheap fuel and free suburban office pkg...and demand street cars that have ground clearance to allow one to enter one's office pkg garage ramps/gas stations w/o issue in a hilly region (as is all of relevant CA)....after all, many engineers can produce an FXX-comparable car w/o real-world, street compromises if buyers are willing to pay $1MM or so....

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Saleen S7 TT
    0-100 4,2
    0-200 11,8



    Thanks Ferdie.. I actually thought the S7 would be faster, asp to 100kph


    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    [...]EU's culture of smaller urban regions [...] unlike their middle-class EU counterparts, who often commute via walking/bus/train or ?3000lb diesel



    Work/Living scenarios in Europe are so different from each other that it'd be hard to state a general route. One can live in the quite and luxurios suburb of Frankfurt and drive their SL/CL/911 to work, restricted only by the "occasional" rush-hour traffic, one can live in a cozy city-centre Wilhelminian-style mansion and walk to the office, dropping of the children at the kindergarten on the way or locate the business off-center right away, just having to drive a couple of minutes from the town-center villa to the office building.

    In several high-traffic cities you will find some people taking the train/bus/taxi but I don't expect this to be the regular habit for very affluent people. They just hire a driver.

    Re: Autobild : RT12, LP640, SLR, S7 Twin Turbo 0-300km/h

    Quote:
    BC911 said:
    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Saleen S7 TT
    0-100 4,2
    0-200 11,8



    Thanks Ferdie.. I actually thought the S7 would be faster, asp to 100kph





    Looked surprising indeed, while traction might be limited in the lower speedrange it should play up at higher speeds. Sadly it didn't provide an amazing impression in this test.

     
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