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    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    pmarkow:
    RC:
    SciFrog:

    I would still get a TdF instead of the 812...

    TdF is barely drivable on public roads...if you want to be fast in it. Smiley

    'fast' and 'public roads' is more and more a contradiction in terms. i'd say you can be at least as fast in a tdf than in any other sports car. the car gets tough to drive fast in those speed ranges unreachable on public roads.  unless we talk very wet roads.

    Not true. Drive a regular F12 and compare it to your GT3 RS. Surprise, surprise...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    xander71:

    I mean nowadays even here in italy it is hard to drive fast, just some autostradas and some cool mountaind roads in late hours or early mornings, otherway it is impossible to just drive fast, to much traffic and zombies using smartphones while driving....

    but just leave the cities and take a road up to the mountains, and a f12 can still be pushed hard...i wish I had one..

    I don't think you want to push a F12 TdF hard in the Italian mountains...unless you have a death wish. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    I would still get a TdF instead of the 812...

    TdF is barely drivable on public roads...if you want to be fast in it. Smiley

    It seems fine to me

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yJo2gXPbfw

     


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    RC:
    pmarkow:
    RC:
    SciFrog:

    I would still get a TdF instead of the 812...

    TdF is barely drivable on public roads...if you want to be fast in it. Smiley

    'fast' and 'public roads' is more and more a contradiction in terms. i'd say you can be at least as fast in a tdf than in any other sports car. the car gets tough to drive fast in those speed ranges unreachable on public roads.  unless we talk very wet roads.

    Not true. Drive a regular F12 and compare it to your GT3 RS. Surprise, surprise...

    That's why I am also not so much a fan of the 812 - my experience with the front engine V12 Ferraris is they are (basically speaking) heavy pigs with a big engine... Smiley


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    RC:
    xander71:

    I mean nowadays even here in italy it is hard to drive fast, just some autostradas and some cool mountaind roads in late hours or early mornings, otherway it is impossible to just drive fast, to much traffic and zombies using smartphones while driving....

    but just leave the cities and take a road up to the mountains, and a f12 can still be pushed hard...i wish I had one..

    I don't think you want to push a F12 TdF hard in the Italian mountains...unless you have a death wish. Smiley Smiley

    don't turn off the electronic nannies and it will be ok.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    Highly doubt there is any problem driving a tdf fast on a normal road.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    noone1:

    Highly doubt there is any problem driving a tdf fast on a normal road.

    Depends how fast. I'm going to treat mine with huge respect.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    noone1:

    Highly doubt there is any problem driving a tdf fast on a normal road.

     

    Even in the F12 that statement is not true. It all depends how sensible one is when driving.

    At 720HP only the F12 is already a beast. 2 rear tires simply cannot do 700+ HP. Max is probably 500HP or so for a 2 wheel drive car. And that's already borderline. 


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    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    Highly doubt there is any problem driving a tdf fast on a normal road.

     

    Even in the F12 that statement is not true. It all depends how sensible one is when driving.

    At 720HP only the F12 is already a beast. 2 rear tires simply cannot do 700+ HP. Max is probably 500HP or so for a 2 wheel drive car. And that's already borderline. 

    It also depends on the setup and engine type a lot. For example, 620hp in the 997 GT2RS are no problem at all. But the front engine Ferrari's are different - not enough weight on the rear axle is the main problem, I guess...


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    Highly doubt there is any problem driving a tdf fast on a normal road.

     

    Even in the F12 that statement is not true. It all depends how sensible one is when driving.

    exactly. it takes a grown up. no need to floor it under less than optimal conditions.

    At 720HP only the F12 is already a beast. 2 rear tires simply cannot do 700+ HP. Max is probably 500HP or so for a 2 wheel drive car. And that's already borderline. 

     


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    The F12 is super sensitive when the tires are cold and or not broken in properly for the first 1,200 km.

    I recall testing a demo car with brand new tires that only had 80km on them and boy did it scare the living sh*t out of me which forced to me to back off, I had to find out the hard way, when going through the aerodynamics part and how much downforce it produces at higher speeds angry always ask about tire condition before testing a demo car! Car mileage was over 5,000km but I didn't expect the tires to be brand new heart

    On Cold tires: F12 on MPSS feels like 911 GT2 on PS Cups at full throttle, traction loss and going sideways.

    On Warm tires: F12 feels stable, wheelspin occurs rapidly from stand still but gains traction immediately in 3rd (Note: tire temp 38c or higher).

    Driving in colder countries is too risky, unless you're fine with placing a brick behind the accelerator pedal mail Some drive with winter tires and are fine, I rather take out my daily driver which has AWD.

    A slight change in tire temperature turns the F12 into a moody horse


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    HP isn't an on/off thing. If you crash your tdf or F12, you're retarded and/or probably doing something stupid. Driving a car without crashing isn't that hard. In any car.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    noone1:

    HP isn't an on/off thing. If you crash your tdf or F12, you're retarded and/or probably doing something stupid. Driving a car without crashing isn't that hard.

     

    In your mind, would you considered I am not-retarded? Or at least competent enough to do what I am doing when driving a car?

    The F12 bites. Period. Even in sunny summer time. Ferrari has a different idea when tuning the TC compared with McLaren or Porsche. the 620HP 12C is like a pussy cat compared with a F12. 

    The F12 WILL let the rear swings even in Sports mode if one is not careful with the throttle. After driving 2 of them for over 15000km, I still drive it with respect. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    I stand by my statement. F12s are plentiful and sold to anyone and everyone who wants one and are not constantly wrecked. It's pretty clear that the vast majority of owners have no problems driving them safely.

    If you haven't wrecked your F12 Whoopsy, then no, you aren't retarded.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    Whoopsy:

    In your mind, would you considered I am not-retarded? Or at least competent enough to do what I am doing when driving a car?

    The F12 bites. Period. Even in sunny summer time. Ferrari has a different idea when tuning the TC compared with McLaren or Porsche. the 620HP 12C is like a pussy cat compared with a F12. 

    The F12 WILL let the rear swings even in Sports mode if one is not careful with the throttle. After driving 2 of them for over 15000km, I still drive it with respect.

    The summer which you know in Canada is Winter to other parts of the world  Smiley

    Going with AWD makes a lot of sense.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    BiTurbo:
    Whoopsy:

    In your mind, would you considered I am not-retarded? Or at least competent enough to do what I am doing when driving a car?

    The F12 bites. Period. Even in sunny summer time. Ferrari has a different idea when tuning the TC compared with McLaren or Porsche. the 620HP 12C is like a pussy cat compared with a F12. 

    The F12 WILL let the rear swings even in Sports mode if one is not careful with the throttle. After driving 2 of them for over 15000km, I still drive it with respect.

    The summer which you know in Canada is Winter to other parts of the world  Smiley

    Going with AWD makes a lot of sense.

    Not sure about Vancouver but in Toronto we get 2 months Jul/Aug with 30+ C temp.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    It was 16 degrees centigrade two days ago in Toronto. But of course we all live in igloos in Canada... Smiley 

    Toronto is further south than Nice. 


    --

     

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

     


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    I never understood such comparisons. Toronto is cold for 10 months in the year, def not Nice weather.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    Huh? Toronto is warm for 6 months of the year. May - October is nice weather.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    Yeah it's 9 degrees in London right now at 8 degrees in Toronto... Toronto gets about 4-8 weeks of around zero degrees plus 1-3 weeks of really cold (-10 to-15) in total. From mid may to mid September it's usually a low of mid 20's and highs of mid 30's. Outside of 3-6 weeks of true cold it's way better weather than London for the rest of the year. And I love London. 


    --

     

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

     


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    Not true. For example winter of 2003 we had 3 months (yes 3 months) of -14 to -25 temp in Toronto. I stayed for 8 years there I know the weather well.

    I was there in Dec and after the 8th there were many days in the month with -5 to -10 temps.

    London winter is mild like 12-15 degrees, a few weeks (2-4) between 2 and 8 C but that's about it. 8 years in London as well therefore trust me.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    wantone:
    RC:
    SciFrog:

    I would still get a TdF instead of the 812...

    TdF is barely drivable on public roads...if you want to be fast in it. Smiley

    It seems fine to me

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yJo2gXPbfw

     

    You forgot the Smiley...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    noone1:

    Huh? Toronto is warm for 6 months of the year. May - October is nice weather.

    Warm starts at 30°C... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    RC:
    noone1:

    Huh? Toronto is warm for 6 months of the year. May - October is nice weather.

    Warm starts at 30°C... Smiley

    Jul/Aug in Toronto but no sea.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    I have friends living in London/Canada and they have friends and family in Toronto. I just asked them if Toronto is a city with nice sunny and warm weather and they thought I'm nuts. I have to say they enjoy the Caribbean a lot, so they probably have the same definition of warm as I do.

    Remembers me of my parents loving Vancouver for it's warm weather all year long (at least this is what a tour guide told them when they visited). A friend of ours moved to Vancouver a couple of years ago because he is a passionate pilot and flying a plane in Canada seems to be substantially cheaper than in Germany. He lives there for over five years now and says there is a lot of rain and the weather is actually not really better than in Bavaria. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    Toronto is sunnier than Vancouver but the sun is not very strong. Like I said it is warm in July and Aug (often 30+ C temps). End of Aug temp is going down fast very fast. In a few days it can go from 30 to 15. Sept to June (in my books it is winter) temp ranges from -25 to +15/16 with a few days in Oct (indian summer) and Apr that can go to 20-24. -10 and sunny in the winter is normal.

    Some people (those who live there for years) think that in the recent years winters are milder but I was there in Dec and it was pretty much the same story. Many days -5 to --8 heavy snowstorms etc.

     


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    So for the fans of black cars, ferrari's and lamborghinis (yes, looking at you Whoopsy!):

    2017-02-25 14.42.08a.jpg
    2017-02-25 14.42.20a.jpg
    2017-02-25 14.41.56a.jpg


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    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    The Huracan is still be best looking sportscar out there, especially in it's price class. angel

    I hope they don't ruin it with the facelift in 2018.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    wantone:

    Toronto is sunnier than Vancouver but the sun is not very strong. Like I said it is warm in July and Aug (often 30+ C temps). End of Aug temp is going down fast very fast. In a few days it can go from 30 to 15. Sept to June (in my books it is winter) temp ranges from -25 to +15/16 with a few days in Oct (indian summer) and Apr that can go to 20-24. -10 and sunny in the winter is normal.

    Some people (those who live there for years) think that in the recent years winters are milder but I was there in Dec and it was pretty much the same story. Many days -5 to --8 heavy snowstorms etc.

     

    Toronto ia WAY more sunnier than vancouver ( 279 days compare to 40 days),it is very mild in recent years, but a friend is living in southern Saskatchewan, and for last 2 months, they were almost in -30 range, some exception to -10,3 days in -40. it is brutal. -5 or -10 is joke


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor

    F12 TDF with 66.324km angelkiss

    1:45

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgR9f1pafo0

     


     
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