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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I doubt that a mid engined super sports car in the 600+ hp range and a price tag over 200k would kill the 911. No way.
    A GT coupe a la 6 series or S class Coupe could do the trick though...especially considering the "typical" 911 Carrera buyers. Smiley Maybe one reason we haven't seen one (GT Coupe) yet.

    The "960" decision is probably very likely a "political" one (Audi, Lamborghini...).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    https://youtu.be/836tBAM6ZNA


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    It's pretty quick! angel

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8vMJHJriYA


    --

    2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2013 MINI John Cooper Works GP / 2014 BMW Alpina D3 biturbo Touring


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    There are rumors that BMW will bring a 911 competitor in 3-4 years and there is also the long time rumor about a smaller R8 (R6), the next 911 competitor.
    Porsche will lose more 911 customers. Then the 718 with this shameful 4 cylinder engine.

    The sport cars from Porsche will lose ground more and more, but prices and weight goes up.
    Only the GT models and some of the special models like the Spyder are really attractiv.

    They need a big step forward with the 992 and cars like R as standard model without limitation.


    --

     

    daily: BMW 430d
    for fun: Porsche Boxster GTS

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    acky:

    There are rumors that BMW will bring a 911 competitor in 3-4 years and there is also the long time rumor about a smaller R8 (R6), the next 911 competitor.

    Up to now - they don´t have any competitor - the rest is pure speculation.


    Porsche will lose more 911 customers.

    Okay, see below the numbers - seams different.

    Then the 718 with this shameful 4 cylinder engine.

    The sport cars from Porsche lose ground more and more, but prices and weight goes up.
    Only the GT models and some of the special models like the Spyder are really attractiv.

    They need a big step forward with the 992.

       

    2015

    2014

    2013

             

    Auslieferungen

    Fahrzeuge

    225.121

    189.849

    161.982

    911

    Fahrzeuge

    31.350

    30.510

    30.205

    918 Spyder

    Fahrzeuge

    566

    301

    Boxster / Cayman

    Fahrzeuge

    22.663

    23.597

    25.704

    Macan

    Fahrzeuge

    80.216

    44.636

    Cayenne

    Fahrzeuge

    73.119

    65.941

    84.041

    Panamera

    Fahrzeuge

    17.207

    24.864

    22.032

             

    Produktion

    Fahrzeuge

    234.497

    203.097

    165.808

    911

    Fahrzeuge

    31.373

    31.590

    29.751

    918 Spyder

    Fahrzeuge

    375

    545

    35

    Boxster / Cayman

    Fahrzeuge

    21.978

    23.211

    28.996

    Macan

    Fahrzeuge

    86.016

    59.363

    312

    Cayenne

    Fahrzeuge

    79.700

    66.005

    81.916

    Panamera

    Fahrzeuge

    15.055

    22.383

    24.798

             

    Mitarbeiter 1)

    Anzahl

    24.481

    22.401

    19.456

    Personalaufwand

    Millionen Euro

    2.605

    2.165

    1.865

             

    Finanzen

           

    Umsatz

    Millionen Euro

    21.533

    17.205

    14.326

    Bilanzsumme

    Millionen Euro

    29.143

    26.060

    24.560

    Eigenkapital

    Millionen Euro

    10.700

    9.599

    9.039

    Anlagevermögen

    Millionen Euro

    11.009

    9.691

    8.539

    Investitionen 2)

    Millionen Euro

    2.427

    2.114

    2.236

    Materialaufwand

    Millionen Euro

    12.095

    10.405

    8.282

    Abschreibungen

    Millionen Euro

    2.124

    1.878

    1.415

    Cashflow aus laufender Geschäftstätigkeit

    Millionen Euro

    3.843

    3.179

    2.917

    Operatives Ergebnis (EBIT)

    Millionen Euro

    3.404

    2.719

    2.579

    Ergebnis vor Steuern

    Millionen Euro

    3.382

    3.060

    2.784

    Ergebnis nach Steuern

    Millionen Euro

    2.335

    2.201

    1.939

             

    --

    AM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    You are right, but this is the past, the future could be different.
    At the moment they are very successful.

    The biggest problem will be the 718 in my view.
    From performance view the 991.2 is good enough for the future, but the 911 design (inside and outside) get more and more boring.

    Look at 2015 225k cars at all, only 55k are sport cars.
    Younger people think about Porsche as a luxury SUV car company which also sells some sport cars.

    They may lose more and more ground concerning sport cars in the future, thats what I meant. I did not wrote it properly in my last post.
    --

     

    daily: BMW 430d
    for fun: Porsche Boxster GTS

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Porsche is a SUV company. 74% of the Porsche's sold ar SUVs angel


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    acky:

     

    The biggest problem will be the 718 in my view.
    From performance view the 991.2 is good enough for the future, but the 911 design (inside and outside) get more and more boring.
     

    that is a different story. Yes, for me the non GT 911 is also getting very boring. Maybe after having a lot of 911 they get boring but I think that the special is missing. The GT cars have this but how long?

    I would never again buy a 911 turbo - for that money I would take a R8 or 570s.


    --

    AM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    All Porsche needs to do is to make cars that makes us spoiled car nuts dream again. Sorry but right now there is not ONE 991 that tickles me especially considering the ridiculous prices they now ask. The closest thing to it is the R but in the end I would never buy a 991 unless it had PDK, convertible and rear seats. They don't need to have a mid engine car, what they need is the Gran Tourismo to take place of the 928 and make more exclusive 991 based on the GT models. What they also need to do is to make the Panamera fun to drive and to drop prices all across the board. Porsche is a mass market manufacturers that wants to price cars like exotic brands. It won't work.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Porsche even recently built some sports cars that had no real competition, but increasing weight, turbocharging and inappropriate pricing are making Porsche uninteresting to me overall. I'm glad I bought by Boxster GTS w manual transmission and analog sport suspension while the NA flat 6 was the power plant. My lack of emotional interest in Porsche's current cars means I spend my leisure time with other pursuits. I think Porsche fails to understand that for some of their customers they are competing with more than just other car makes, but also their other interests.

    i think this issue is even more common in the next generation of potential Porsche customers...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    In the above figure would be interesting to know how much GT cars in the 911/Cayman breakdown numbers and if this number is going up year after year or not. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Seen the car in flesh today. It looks great but it is not the same stunner like the GT3 RS. 

    Certainly - I would buy one if they would give me one. But if I would be able to choose I would buy the RS!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Auto Bild drive the car. Silver with red stripes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxnVPPnEn74


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    https://youtu.be/VxrptIYWxaM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Another Andrew Frankel review. This time from GT Purely Porsche.

    1465622269195image.png


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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Good read but I doubt that the facelifted GT3 will give Porsche fans a good replacement for a 911 R. Unless of course Porsche decides to offer that long awaited wing delete option, even for extra cash. Now that would be awesome!


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    RC:

    Good read but I doubt that the facelifted GT3 will give Porsche fans a good replacement for a 911 R. Unless of course Porsche decides to offer that long awaited wing delete option, even for extra cash. Now that would be awesome!

    i don't quite understand why wing-delete on a GT3 would be awesome. to get the ugly extendable spoiler as on the carrera or R in return? the last true sport cars made by porsche are the GT cars, the rest is deleted sauce catering to SUV fans and their wives.

    but i agree it is a useless discussion. surely there is people out there who want a four seater GT3RS targa version and in the end they will win the game by majority vote (and check-book).

    peter

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Peter, Porsche fans all over the world love the new 911 R and would love such a car but Porsche only seems to produce  a limited edition model and this p.ss.d off a lot of customers. A GT3 with a wing delete option would calm down many of these upset customers and probably give them, what they want.

    I'm not a fan of wings and if my R8 would have been available without one, I would have taken it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    pmarkow:
    RC:

    Good read but I doubt that the facelifted GT3 will give Porsche fans a good replacement for a 911 R. Unless of course Porsche decides to offer that long awaited wing delete option, even for extra cash. Now that would be awesome!

    i don't quite understand why wing-delete on a GT3 would be awesome. to get the ugly extendable spoiler as on the carrera or R in return? the last true sport cars made by porsche are the GT cars, the rest is deleted sauce catering to SUV fans and their wives.

    but i agree it is a useless discussion. surely there is people out there who want a four seater GT3RS targa version and in the end they will win the game by majority vote (and check-book).

    peter

     

    GT3RS targa with 4 seats? Got my name on one Smiley Actually this is the ONLY modern 911 I would consider. Else my money goes elsewhere (mostly to Ferrari).

    Seriously, wings are not necessary unless you track the car, same as rear seats, let people the option to add them back even if it means 30 more kg or so on the car. As far as convertible vs coupe, again, for a mostly road car coupe makes zero sense, these cars are so fast that the enhancement of have open top trounces any tiny bit of performance lost.

    The GT3RS targa with 4 seats would be a unique offering today with no competition and could be priced as such (i.e. around $200k, same as the boring 991 turbo S). It would reinforce Porsche as a sport car manufacturer vs a SUV, limousine or toned down sport car maker like BMW. To think it would reduce the GT3 RS "manliness track oriented" view is silly as the GT3 RS could still exist in its current form anyway, and since other manufacturers do it too (Ferrari and McLaren). So what does Porsche have to loose? Well the sales of turbo S where we know the margins are astronomical could plunge for a while at least. I don't see any other reason.Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    SciFrog:
    pmarkow:
    RC:

    Good read but I doubt that the facelifted GT3 will give Porsche fans a good replacement for a 911 R. Unless of course Porsche decides to offer that long awaited wing delete option, even for extra cash. Now that would be awesome!

    i don't quite understand why wing-delete on a GT3 would be awesome. to get the ugly extendable spoiler as on the carrera or R in return? the last true sport cars made by porsche are the GT cars, the rest is deleted sauce catering to SUV fans and their wives.

    but i agree it is a useless discussion. surely there is people out there who want a four seater GT3RS targa version and in the end they will win the game by majority vote (and check-book).

    peter

     

    GT3RS targa with 4 seats? Got my name on one Smiley Actually this is the ONLY modern 911 I would consider. Else my money goes elsewhere (mostly to Ferrari).

     

    What 4 seater Ferrari rivals a GT3RS though.?.

    GT3/RS 4 seater, not sure about this, even the wing delete, jmo...


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    RC:

    Peter, Porsche fans all over the world love the new 911 R and would love such a car but Porsche only seems to produce  a limited edition model and this p.ss.d off a lot of customers. A GT3 with a wing delete option would calm down many of these upset customers and probably give them, what they want.

    I'm not a fan of wings and if my R8 would have been available without one, I would have taken it.

    i am myself not a big fan of wings but a GT3 (RS) without it? to look like a carrera????? and your wing looks pretty cool in my book.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    SciFrog:
    pmarkow:
    RC:

    Good read but I doubt that the facelifted GT3 will give Porsche fans a good replacement for a 911 R. Unless of course Porsche decides to offer that long awaited wing delete option, even for extra cash. Now that would be awesome!

    i don't quite understand why wing-delete on a GT3 would be awesome. to get the ugly extendable spoiler as on the carrera or R in return? the last true sport cars made by porsche are the GT cars, the rest is deleted sauce catering to SUV fans and their wives.

    but i agree it is a useless discussion. surely there is people out there who want a four seater GT3RS targa version and in the end they will win the game by majority vote (and check-book).

    peter

     

    GT3RS targa with 4 seats? Got my name on one Smiley Actually this is the ONLY modern 911 I would consider. Else my money goes elsewhere (mostly to Ferrari).

    Seriously, wings are not necessary unless you track the car, same as rear seats, let people the option to add them back even if it means 30 more kg or so on the car. As far as convertible vs coupe, again, for a mostly road car coupe makes zero sense, these cars are so fast that the enhancement of have open top trounces any tiny bit of performance lost.

    The GT3RS targa with 4 seats would be a unique offering today with no competition and could be priced as such (i.e. around $200k, same as the boring 991 turbo S). It would reinforce Porsche as a sport car manufacturer vs a SUV, limousine or toned down sport car maker like BMW. To think it would reduce the GT3 RS "manliness track oriented" view is silly as the GT3 RS could still exist in its current form anyway, and since other manufacturers do it too (Ferrari and McLaren). So what does Porsche have to loose? Well the sales of turbo S where we know the margins are astronomical could plunge for a while at least. I don't see any other reason.Smiley

    you see, my posting hit home:::)))


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Don't talk too much on forums but Drive

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    pmarkow:
    RC:

    Peter, Porsche fans all over the world love the new 911 R and would love such a car but Porsche only seems to produce  a limited edition model and this p.ss.d off a lot of customers. A GT3 with a wing delete option would calm down many of these upset customers and probably give them, what they want.

    I'm not a fan of wings and if my R8 would have been available without one, I would have taken it.

    i am myself not a big fan of wings but a GT3 (RS) without it? to look like a carrera????? and your wing looks pretty cool in my book.

    Have you seen a R in the flesh? To me it looks so much better than any GTx made so far...


     
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