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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    There is a strong case for retaining tried, tested and proven components.

    That is why every new 911 will be evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

    Keeping the basic 911 shape is essential for Porsche - not necessarily so for all other brands...

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Evolutionary design is precisely why Porsche has been so successful.  It retains followers of past design as well as new converts.   It always baffles Porschefiles just how each new iteration continues to outdo previous models in the fields of engineering, performance, ergonomics, and overall excellence.  There is no substitute.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Lars i see your point, but then again Autobild just did a reliability test and the 911 and Boxsters come out on top of ANY cars on the market today... That is mighty impressive considering a percentage is driven hard and even tracked... I think it is so reliable because the parts have been well sorted and have been made perfect over the years. Why fix something that isn't broken. Even if the 991 has parts with 996 serials on them, I don't see this as a bad thing at all. It's a 911 afterall. What would it be if they completely redesigned everything a la F430 to F458.. well it would lose all that is 911.


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    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Atz - did the 996 loose all its 911 after being completely rebuild after the 993?


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    4  911s.jpg


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    ***** Wolfgang Dürheimer on the future of Porsche *****

    Porsche's R&D boss, Wolfgang Dürheimer, talks four cylinder 911s, electric wheelchairs and why the next GT2 RS needs to have even more power...

    Wolfgang-Durheimer_R+D_Porsche.jpg

    "If I was one of our rivals right now, I think I might be quite worried..." -- Wolfgang Dürheimer

    (January 2011)

    For Porsche there has never been a more active, exciting and adventurous decade than that which is soon to end. At the turn of the century Porsche made just 911s and Boxsters. Ten years on these have been joined by Caymans, Cayennes and Panameras, an expansion that has brought the shield of Stuttgart to customers who might never have thought of Porsche ownership before, or dismissed it as an impossible, impractical dream. But not only has Porsche's portfolio been broadened, so too has it found new depth: if you want to find a rare breed, look for authoritative figures who don't believe that the GT3, GT3 RS and GT2 RS are among the finest, most focused and purest Porsches in the company's history.

    Of course, much of the credit for the vision must go to Wendelin Wiedeking, Porsche's mercurial former head whose failed takeover of VW cost him his job and Porsche its independence; but someone had to take that vision and make it happen and it is that man who's now sitting in front of me: Wolfgang Dürheimer.

    Dürheimer joined Porsche from BMW in 1999 and, two years later, was appointed head of R&D, a position he retains to this day. It's been his job these last ten years to make the vision a reality. But like all great engineers he has no great interest in looking back, wallowing in the nostalgia of all he has achieved in the past: his focus is only forward. He knows Porsche's biggest challenges lie ahead, as the company adapts itself to the brave, new and environmentally aware age we are entering. And it seems there is little or nothing he is not prepared to contemplate in his efforts to prepare Porsche for that future.

    We start with the obvious enquiry about the 918 Spyder, the car born to showcase Porsche's unique abilities to blend sporting and environmental considerations. "The project is proceeding well," he says, "and you can tell how excited Porsche is about it by the number of my engineers applying to be part of it. Right now the car is under full design and the final configuration of the technical data will be determined by the end of the year." As of this moment just one prototype exists.

    1293982024686porsche-918spyder-front.jpg

    1293982037114porsche-918spyder-rear.jpg

    But it is when the conversation progresses to how hybrid technology is going to affect Porsche's more familiar product that Dürheimer lights up, surprising not only by what he is saying, but the fact he's actually willing to say it at all.

    Dürheimer has been known for many years to be a fan of hybrid technology and when I put to him the concern of many that it is only a bridging technology - a means to move from our fossil-burning present to our all electric future, he replies by simply saying, "ah yes, but how long is the bridge?" In his view its span is measurable in decades. "When we can put as much energy in a battery the size of my briefcase as you can in a fuel tank, then we will have reached the other side. What we have now are big improvements in battery technology and vast sums being spent by industry and governments, but not the breakthrough we need."

    But there are hybrids and there are hybrids. Currently all hybrids on sale, including the Cayenne, use electricity generated by the car stored in old fashioned, heavy nickel metal hydride batteries which means that, for the vast bulk of the time, the car's main engine is running. But many believe that over time these will be replaced by so-called plug-in hybrids with lithium ion batteries. By contrast for most journeys these hybrids can operate using only electricity, keeping an internal combustion engine in reserve to help out either when battery life is depleted, when a sudden slug of power is needed or during high-speed cruising where electric motors are inefficient. The surprise is just how wedded to the plug-in concept Porsche is.

    "We will introduce a plug-in version within the life-cycle of the current Panamera," insists Dürheimer, "and then we will have one on the next generation of Cayenne." Surely he can't be thinking of a plug-in 911 too? "We will also have plug-in option on the next generation of 911," he says as my eyes grow wider. The next generation of 911 is launched next year. So one day will there be plug-in versions of all Porsches? "Within five years," is his simple response.

    For now, at least, all these hybrids will be optional and Dürheimer sees no case in the foreseeable future for leaving the internal combustion engine out of the equation. "But Porsches must be able to run on electricity alone. What's going to happen in all those cities whose mayors only allow cars with zero emissions to drive? A Porsche must be able to deliver its driver to his final destination, not just as far as the train station or bus stop."

    I put it to him that he'd never been able to entertain Porsche's plug-in future without access to the facilities and resources of the Volkswagen group. "Not at all," he replies forcefully, "all this was decided and already under development when Porsche was independent." On the contrary, he says, it is VW and its subsidiaries that are benefitting from Porsche's technology, which will be made available to it in time. "There's an electric shelf," he says metaphorically. "And sure we've taken some components from it (the current Cayenne hybrid powertrain for instance) but we're putting a lot on to it as well."

    Sadly it seems there is currently no possibility of a road-going application for the 911 GT3 R Hybrid's kinetic energy recovery system, though Dürheimer is seriously considering making it available to 911 Supercup racers.

    2010 Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid - 10b.jpg

    2010 Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid - 11b.jpg

    But hybrid is not the end of Dürheimer's ambitions to retain Porsche's relevance in the fast moving period of change the car has seen since it was invented. It has been 15 years since a Porsche was last powered by a four cylinder engine and his response to my enquiry reveals with scalpel-sharp clarity the conflict between head and heart he feels:

    "Can a modern Porsche have four cylinders?"

    "Sure"

    "Would you be happy to see one?"

    "Not really."

    But it's not going to stop him making one. "I'm a believer," he says, "and I like the flat-six very much. But if requirements for fuel consumption and CO2 go the way the ministry for environmental pollution is telling us, we have no choice but to discuss smaller displacements and fewer cylinders. I think the flat-six is the perfect configuration but we have to focus on performance and efficiency, and if the only way that can be achieved is with a smaller four-cylinder engine, that is the way we should go." 

    So far this all sounds theoretical, a road to go down if forced to. But, in fact, this is more than mere philosophising. Not only has a four-cylinder motor been built, it looks like it's going to be used, and not just in the back of a Boxster: "We have developed the technology, it will most likely come in the Boxster before the 911, but I will not rule out the 911." It's been over 40 years since the last four-pot 911 (the 912) slipped from the sales sheets. How soon will it appear? Dürheimer will not be drawn other than to say, "if the market demands it, soon." Which doesn't sound to me like an engine first fired-up on the bench some time last week.

    So revolutionary is this picture of Porsche's future, I feel the need to retrace our steps to more familiar ground. So I ask Dürheimer what it is that makes a Porsche a Porsche and what elements will remain non-negotiable whatever the future holds?

    "A Porsche must always feel like a Porsche. So if you put someone in the driver's seat, blindfolded, and only let them feel the pedals and steering position, they will know they're in a Porsche whether it is a Cayenne or a 918. I have rules, written down rules, that no-one is allowed to break without my permission."

    "The ignition key has to be on the left, the rev-counter in the middle. The communications system can never be higher than the centre point of the rev-counter, so it is always seen as secondary. The angle of the steering wheel has to be at least 24 degrees and not more than 28 degrees because our drivers don't want to feel they're driving a truck..."

    I'm sure he could go on but I'm getting the picture. What we've not established yet is whether Porsche's position as the maker of the world's most revered sporting cars is likely to change. So I ask him. "The future is faster," he says encouragingly, "with more performance and less consumption. I don't think there is a limit to how much performance you can provide, even if customers choose not to use it all. I think, for instance, we have shown with the 918 that electro-mobility and sportiness are not exclusive to each other. When we decided to show what we thought we could do in the future, we did not design an electric wheelchair."

    "It is important that Porsche is seen to be leading and progressing, so if the current GT2 RS has 620hp which many will think is enough power, the next one should still have 625hp. You can buy a ten Euro watch and it will tell the time perfectly, but it is not the same as having a proper watch. It's the same with Porsche: any car will get you to your destination but not with the sound, feel and performance of a Porsche. And cars like the GT2 are important, even to customers who don't drive them, because they know that the same people who designed the GT2 were also involved in their Porsche. It creates a remarkable feelgood factor among our customers. Also, I don't think many other car manufacturers send their racing cars down the same production line as their road cars..."

    But change is coming, even to the cars built by Porsche Motorsport, often seen as a brand within a brand. Ever since the first GT3 was built over a decade ago, these cars have been using the old racing engine, the indirect injection motor that can trace its origins back to the 911 GT1 Le Mans winner of 1998. But now that Porsche has an all-new direct injection flat-six in every other 911, Boxster and Cayman, the time has come for the old engine to take its final bow. "We don't need to replace it," concedes Dürheimer, "but we are business people and it doesn't make sense to have two entirely different generations of flat-six being built in house." He confirms the GT2 RS will be the last new Porsche fitted with the old engine. And while that will bring tears to the eyes of purists, I think we should at least wait to see what its replacement is like before lamenting its passing too much.

    Finally, I ask whether, as an engineer, life under the Volkswagen wing has become easier or more difficult? Ever the straight talker, Dürheimer responds instantly: "More difficult." Excuse me? "We didn't exactly have spare time in our day before VW, but now my engine people are talking to its engine people, my suspension people to its suspension people and so on. It all takes time."

    "But you have to look at it the other way, too, and ask what potential lies within this group and the huge combined engineering and technical resources it now has. If I was one of our rivals right now, I think I might be quite worried." And I think he might have a point...

    Porsche-Intelligent-Performance-2010.jpg

    As we closed for press Porsche announced that Wolfgang Dürheimer is to leave the company at the end of January 2011, to take up the position of Chairman of Bentley Motors and the CEO of Bugatti, as well as Motorsport Director for the Volkswagen Group. Dürheimer's replacement will be Wolfgang Hatz, Volkswagen's current Head of Engine and Transmission Development.

    -- GT Purely Porsche article by Andrew Frankel --

    Smiley SmileySmiley

    Wolfgang Dürheimer, Executive Vice President for Research and Development, explains the idea of Porsche Intelligent Performance and shares insight into the 911 GT3 R Hybrid and the Cayenne S Hybrid...

    Wolfgang Dürheimer provides an insight into the development philosophy of Porsche's mid-engine sports cars...

    Wolfgang Dürheimer meets Chris Harris at the launch of the Porsche 918 Spyder...

    Wolfgang-Dürheimer-Porsche-918-Spyder_Chris-Harris_Evo-video_part-1

    Wolfgang-Dürheimer-Porsche-918-Spyder_Chris-Harris_Evo-video_part-2

    Happy New Year to all our friends at Rennteam and at Porsche!

    Looking forward to a great year for Porsche in 2011...

    Smiley SmileySmiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    "The future is faster," he says encouragingly, "with more performance and less consumption. I don't think there is a limit to how much performance you can provide, even if customers choose not to use it all." 

    I love hearing that. Thanks for posting, a very interesting interview.

     


    --

    "When you design a car around the customer's wishes, you get cup holders. When you design a car around innovative thinking, you get a Porsche."


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Just the talk about a 4 cilinder in a 911 makes me  very concerned... WTF is going on at Porsche now 


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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    If the market demands it ......  Who , except soccer moms and Porsche wannabes, would ask for a 4 cylinder 911 ?

    But maybe we must not underestimate the influence of the futur emission regulations...


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    But I bet we won't see a 4 cilinder R8 even BMW M3... its nonsense to even mention it. If they need to decrease emissions they should be saying "we are doing everything in our power to find ways to not let it affect the 911 and its concept", wasn't one of the escuses for opening the modeline to non-sportcars that it will help keep the 911 and other sportcars true? With declarations like this imply that they wan't to dumb down their more mass produced versions and build a few low production flasgship versions of their cars to help sell them.

    With these ideas we have been reading you kind of get the feeling that after the failed VW  takeover there is a competition of aggressive for-profit ideas and declarations inside Porsche-VW about Porsche's future plans and pipeline due to the struggle of shuffling of power and jerarchy, at the expense of Porsche's traditional thinking and philosophy. I have heard some pretty stupid ideas or intents, just like this one about fitting a 4 cilinder in a 911.


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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:

     Just the talk about a 4 cilinder in a 911 makes me  very concerned... WTF is going on at Porsche now 

    I wouldn't buy one, but I do have to admit that having a small & lightweight 4-cyl motor would probably help the handling quite a bit (912 was way underpowered, but better handling than similar 911 with that tiny VW motor right up next to the bulkhead).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Thanks Boxster Coupe GTS..Great article by Chris Harris. It will be interesting to see 911 plug-ins pulling up to the charging station at the track. I guess Porsche will have to add feature to blast the exhaust sound of gas engine through the Bose systems to remind you that you are driving a 911.  


    --
    2006 987S, Artic Silver, Cocoa, Cocoa Top 2006 Cayenne S Lapis Blue New York

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Interesting extracts that struck me:

    "Dürheimer joined Porsche from BMW in 1999 and, two years later, was appointed head of R&D, a position he retains to this day."

    "Wolfgang Dürheimer is to leave the company at the end of January 2011"

    Regarding the 918 Spyder: "As of this moment just one prototype exists."

    Regarding a 4 cylinder Porsche: "if the market demands it, soon."

    "A Porsche must always feel like a Porsche. So if you put someone in the driver's seat, blindfolded, and only let them feel the pedals and steering position, they will know they're in a Porsche"

    ""The ignition key has to be on the left" (but it's on the right in a RHD car)

    ""The future is faster," he says encouragingly, "with more performance and less consumption. I don't think there is a limit to how much performance you can provide, even if customers choose not to use it all."

    "... any car will get you to your destination but not with the sound, feel and performance of a Porsche. And cars like the GT2 are important, even to customers who don't drive them, because they know that the same people who designed the GT2 were also involved in their Porsche. It creates a remarkable feelgood factor among our customers. Also, I don't think many other car manufacturers send their racing cars down the same production line as their road cars..."

    Regarding the Mezger engine, ""We don't need to replace it ... but we are business people and it doesn't make sense to have two entirely different generations of flat-six being built in house." He confirms the GT2 RS will be the last new Porsche fitted with the old engine."

    --

    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    A 4-cyl 911 is not a 911, the same way that a V8 RUF 911 is not a 911. It does not matter how it performs. A 911 has a flat-6 hanging in the rear.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    So to get the last of the Mezger engines in a new car - since the GT2 RS is sold out - the only choices are a 997.2 GT3 or a 997.2 GT3 RS (provided that your OPC still has some allocation available).

    But how significant is this?

    The 997.2 TT and the 997 TTS PDK both use a PDK-compatible engine that is not derived from the GT1 but is instead a turbo-charged version of the kind of engine found in a 997.2 C2S.

    The wide praise of the 997.2 TT and the 997 TTS PDK is there for all to read - I haven't read complaints that the 997.2 TT or the 997 TTS PDK are let down in some way by the kind of engine they have. So then how significant is the end of the GT1 derived engine? Was Porsche's finest hour back in 1988? One would hope not - and that the future holds far more good things to come.

    Anyway, just raising the issue. I'm interested to read people's views ... 

    --

    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Wolfgang Dürheimer says regarding a 4 cylinder Porsche:

    "... if the market demands it, soon."

    "... it will most likely come in the Boxster before the 911, but I will not rule out the 911."

    This reminded me of a video I watched some time back ...

    Precision 911 - 997 Carrera Development - Millimetres



    At 0.53: "One thing is clear, the overall concept is sacrosanct."

    At 1.03: "For each of us the first commandment was hands off the basic 911 idea but perfect the incarnation of this idea."

    At 2.49: "The engine developers had similar objectives."

    At 2.55: "There were no limits to what could be proposed with one exception - the engine had to remain in the rear because of the traction benefits. That we didn't want to sacrifice."

    At 3.10 "But installing any engine other than a 6 cylinder boxer - that would never have entered our mind, nor would it make any sense."

    Was this Porsche's 911 philosophy or just marketing?

    A 4 cylinder 911? No thanks, not for me.

    --

    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    easy_rider911:

    So then how significant is the end of the GT1 derived engine?

    The answer largely depends on how the 9A1 can perform in a racing environment (Le Mans 24-Hour, etc.).  If it proves to be as reliable and performs as well as the GT1 motor, then there will be no significant premium on the models with GT1 motors.

    If not, then it could be a big deal.

     


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Grant:
    easy_rider911:

    So then how significant is the end of the GT1 derived engine?

    The answer largely depends on how the 9A1 can perform in a racing environment (Le Mans 24-Hour, etc.).  If it proves to be as reliable and performs as well as the GT1 motor, then there will be no significant premium on the models with GT1 motors.

    If not, then it could be a big deal.

     
    Exactly Smiley I was thinking the same thing. Since the 991 GT3 RS will be the homologation version of the 991 GT3 RSR etc, if the 9A1 is to form the basis of future GT3 models as well, it will need to come up to scratch in a motorsport context as well.

    --

    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    I think we have to not fool ourselves here. OK, we are car guys. We are seriously into Porsche. I, like 'easy_rider911', can break down a promo video in minute-by-minute details, too. We are fanatical Porsche folk.

    In my youth I was a pretty ripping guitarist, and I toured all over the globe. I still am the very heart of things a purist in that field and I live music in much the same way I live cars and Porsche. But playing to thousands of people all over the world I realised that there was indeed a disconnect, especially between those who hired me to play and those who listened... surprisingly, also in the attitudes of those I performed alongside and of course those who vehemently attended my shows! (Just for you own interest if you ever want to see some of my music: youtube "kiran jay haslam" !!!)

    These days I am well and truly a car guy. In fact, I am lucky enough to drive and write about cars for a living. Porsche, Bentley, Audi, Ferrari, Lamborghini... do you know how many "manufacturer representatives" I interact with who clearly have no passion or interest in these cars, other than it merely being a job that pays the bills? I think the founding of Porsche was based on a principle derived from a purist's dream. And by purist I don't mean "it must be aircooled blah blah", I mean, taking anything to the nth degree. These days, honestly, I think the only carmaker still like that is Bentley. In fact, they are today, thanks to Dr. F.J. Paefgen, unique in the world of manufacturing. Bentley (and Bugatti) and to a lesser degree Porsche, VW and Audi are staying true to that. However, marketers rule the world. Everyone is steered by the forces of accumulating wealth and power, so whatever was said in a promo video, although based on facts, is designed to prompt an emotion that results in a sale.

    I want to say "4-cylinder 911... bollocks!" ... but I need to drive it before I say that. One of my all time favourite cars was the mid-engined 4-cyl turbocharged Renault 5, you can get some amazing bang out of a well crafted 4. Just think Lotus Exige Cup 260!

    Kiran

     


    --

    Current steeds in the stable include: Porsche 996/911 (2004) '40 Jahre' Anniversary - 363bhp, Porsche-VW 914 (1973) 1.7 - 78bhp, Volkswagen Tiguan (2008) 2.0TFSi - 200bhp, Volkswagen Touareg (2009) V6 - 280bhp, Volkswagen Golf Mk3 (1993) VR6 - 189bhp


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Very well written Kiran. You are right about the fanatic part, and it's sad to see many people in the automotive world simply not being into cars that much. I think .Porsche does have a high number of true enthusiasts in their shops, but in a global economy the fact of the matter remains that the majority of people buy a Porsche to get from A to B and perhaps to buy in on the image.. This is why Porsche must go with the trends... leather, sat nav.. crazy fancy stereo systems in the car... the list goes on. Think of environmental aspects as the new trends, and Porsche must follow to ensure the majority of "regular" customers still buy the bulk of Porsche.

    We tend to be very sceptical about Porsche going green, but there are many benefits. My 944 had a fantastic 2.5L 4cyl and it truly felt like a 6. The later 3.0L were even better... Porsche has done it and can certainly do it again.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Grant:
    easy_rider911:

    So then how significant is the end of the GT1 derived engine?

    The answer largely depends on how the 9A1 can perform in a racing environment (Le Mans 24-Hour, etc.).  If it proves to be as reliable and performs as well as the GT1 motor, then there will be no significant premium on the models with GT1 motors.

    If not, then it could be a big deal.

     


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello

    That and the question of "character", imo. The Mezger-engine is one of the most characterful engines present in a road car today, the future engine be it 9A1 or something else needs to retain that character for it to be acceptable in a motorsport developed Porsche.

    Competitiveness is one thing, character and desirability is something else, and it needs to do both IMO. I cross my fingers

    @Kiran: I share your thoughts, that's exactly why I was so glad to have met Preuninger and some Porsche GB guys at Goodwood last summer, all of them were true enthousiasts, passionate like all of us. It certainly made me hopeful for Porsche's future.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:

     Just the talk about a 4 cilinder in a 911 makes me  very concerned... WTF is going on at Porsche now 

     

    Quit easy, they will set up on the Golf R Smiley


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Misha011:

    4  911s.jpg

     

    Thanks Misha - that is justifying what I say. The 997 and 991 look like a facelift and almost the same car to me. And even if the bumpers and lights are tremendously different, it still will look the same as the windows, doors and the major frame look the same!


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    IMO this is a good thing:

    1. The 911 shape is very successful. Why spoil a charismatic and good looking design for the sake of change per se?

    2. As a 997 owner, I'm happy that the new model will not spoil the image of my car by being radically different.

    3. Potential 911 buyers who have aspired to the iconic shape for years,  will not be sent away by a new experimental design.

    People who like a more fancy shape than 911 could buy Audi R8, SLS (and impress with the funny doors), or stretch to a used Ferrari perhaps.

    There is something for everyone these days!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    @Kiran: of course, it's all about selling cars to make a profit and marketing is all about generating those sales. Regarding the video I posted, yes, it's a promo video but even advertising is composed of both 'hot air' and factual statements. The bits that I quoted were IMHO not 'mere puff' but seemed to me like statements that should at least be meaningful and possibly insightful.


    --


    RT Moderator - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    I agree that a Porsche engine has to have character, but not too much that it risks reliability or practicality, both qualities Porsche is known for. The 356 Carrera Furhmann engine comes to mind as an example of perhaps too much "character". The 911 more than any other sports car has artfully achieved a balancing act between performance and every day usability. That forumula is a key element of its enduring success IMHO.
    --

    Carpe Diem--life is but a crack of light bounded by eternities of darkness (Nabokov)


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     @Reginos: I buy your point that it is good for the old car that the new one looks almost the same. For me it is just less tempting to buy something which looks almost the same as the thing I have since years (and now I'm talking about 10 years back to the 996 which had the same body shape, too). Yes - the car is iconic, but if I put 120.000€ on the table for a new car I want it to be new, otherwise I stay with what I have and dont burn another 60k€ within 3 years. All the loss of money needs to have a reason and this are emotions. 

    I love the iconic shape of the 911 and it needs to stay like it always did, but somehow it needs drastically to be seen that that thing is new!

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     

    Probably I’m the only one, who finds 991 to be drastically different, than the older models? It has such a big presence, even from early days of testing under heavy camouflage. And we all know that Porsche’s don’t look correctly enough on photos, but this time the car is special! In my eyes at least…

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Smiley Smiley    Boyko I am with you 100%  !


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Boyko23:

     

    Probably I’m the only one, who finds 991 to be drastically different, than the older models? It has such a big presence, even from early days of testing under heavy camouflage. And we all know that Porsche’s don’t look correctly enough on photos, but this time the car is special! In my eyes at least…

     

    Yeah, if you prefer large/bloated, even more so than the current one.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


     
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