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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Guys

    What happened with freedom of speech?

    We all have some ‘butter’ on our head, one way or another. 

    Relax and let’s enjoy opinions. It’s what makes us unique and valuable. No reason to be harsh.

    Thanks. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Integra:

    Guys

    What happened with freedom of speech?

    We all have some ‘butter’ on our head, one way or another. 

    Relax and let’s enjoy opinions. It’s what makes us unique and valuable. No reason to be harsh.

    Thanks. 

     

    +1 Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    LOL. 10-15K away from the competition? Just because you pay out the ass for options in high-end cars doesn't mean they cost anywhere near that much.

    Let me guess, Tesla would have to spend $500 extra on every car to give it red seat belts, right?

    BTW, I don't own any cars anymore. Sold the McLaren and still don't want a Tesla, just like I don't want a 911 or a Cayenne or a million other cars. I'll be sure to post a thread when I buy someone another Toyota though.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    from now on - owners discussions on RT only smiley

    In all seriousness - I really think you can only talk about a car  that you've really owned (leasing is ok tooindecision) Magazine reviews are strongly biased in my opinion as most journalists drive them for a couple of hours max and are not critical at all - but real life day to day experience is  totally different than doing a test ride. I think that is why some youtubers have great success because some of them own their cars at least for a couple of month and they old saying put you're money where you're mouth is has a different value to me.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Integra:

    Guys

    What happened with freedom of speech?

    We all have some ‘butter’ on our head, one way or another. 

    Relax and let’s enjoy opinions. It’s what makes us unique and valuable. No reason to be harsh.

    Thanks. 

    Your sentiments are correct, but inaccurate at the same time. You are missing a whole host of history ( and I mean HUGE) with our good friend @noone  and his MEH comments. Every once in a while he gets under the skin of someone, but he has always been made to feel welcome here.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    This is not about history. Even if I don’t always agree with some members, whether it be Noone1 or someone else, I still feel this kind of bashing is reserved for children. We should know better. 

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    Cadillac interiors are just as good as Porsche IMO, so I don't see the problem.

     

    Oh mySmiley

    Cadillac interior are on par with Hyundai at best.

    See all those cheap plastic and fake wood and real leather that looks like fake? 10 year old Civic got them beat already.

    I totally agree Smiley Interior quality of American made cars are crap and cheap, the plastic looks very cheap ...Skoda level and the leather...Smiley extremely poor !!!!


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:

    Cadillac interiors are just as good as Porsche IMO, so I don't see the problem.

    You are kidding, right? Drove a Cadillac Escalade (2017 model) a while ago and interior quality is basically at par with my Mini JCW, maybe between the Mini JCW and our former Macan Turbo. Not even close to the Cayenne S Diesel my wife drives and this is the old model.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    noone1:

    Cadillac interiors are just as good as Porsche IMO, so I don't see the problem.

    You are kidding, right? Drove a Cadillac Escalade (2017 model) a while ago and interior quality is basically at par with my Mini JCW, maybe between the Mini JCW and our former Macan Turbo. Not even close to the Cayenne S Diesel my wife drives and this is the old model.

    I think the quality of Mini especially with leather interior is better than the Cadillac. American car brands are giving Americans what they ask for, and that is cheaper and bigger cars which means lower quality cars. The Cayenne interior since the first generation has been a great place to be in and the quality has always been very high


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Italo:
    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    Cadillac interiors are just as good as Porsche IMO, so I don't see the problem.

     

    Oh mySmiley

    Cadillac interior are on par with Hyundai at best.

    See all those cheap plastic and fake wood and real leather that looks like fake? 10 year old Civic got them beat already.

    I totally agree Smiley Interior quality of American made cars are crap and cheap, the plastic looks very cheap ...Skoda level and the leather...Smiley extremely poor !!!!

    Comical anecdote on U.S. interiors: during the 1980s, U.S. manufacturers were surprised to learn that Japanese automakers added talc and corn starch fillers to the plastics used for interiors, as this was a cheaper product.  While it was cheaper, and lessened the mechanical properties of the component, it made for a smoother, silkier touch which was desired by the average consumer.   Additionally, product variances, as we learned through one of the family businesses, consistently led to tolerance stack issues in Big 3 interiors. Once again, the Japanese got this one correct by minimizing product tolerances.   The worse of the Big 3, not surprisingly, was Chrysler which used three vendors for body components.  Standards were so loose that location markers could vary several centimeters from one suppliers parts to the next.

     

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Very interesting story, thanks. Smiley

    I can still remember the interior quality of my first Porsche 996 (Carrera). Oh boy was it bad. Smiley Smiley 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    On the 996, the fit and finish were good; it was the materials that were on the cheap side. The seats were horrible too, in terms of shape and support.

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    KMM:

    On the 996, the fit and finish were good; it was the materials that were on the cheap side. The seats were horrible too, in terms of shape and support.

     

     

    The sport seat with the winged shoulder is not that bad, the standard one...............not so much.


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Targa Tim:
    noone1:
    It would cost probably a couple thousand dollars to give a Tesla the same interior quality as Porsche.

    not that easy I'm afraid.

    American cars just do not have the "attention to details" compared to European or Japanese cars.

    You need to retrain the whole crews.

    Saw the 2018 Toyota camry, interior is so nice


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    KMM:

    On the 996, the fit and finish were good; it was the materials that were on the cheap side. The seats were horrible too, in terms of shape and support.

     

    I think you have a bad memory... Smiley Smiley

    My car was so bad, it even spent a week in Weissach for various "improvements". 

    This is how I actually got closer to Porsche, with my first crappy owner experience. Smiley

    I also visited Werk 1 more often at that time than my local gym. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The interiors for Porsche. Mercedes, Audi, BMW and Jaguar Land Rover are bought in from Draexlmaier. There's no reason why Tesla couldn't use the same supplier to obtain the same quality.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    You are correct I went to Draexlmaier for business. However I am suprised to see Lan Rover in the list. Last time I went there Draexlmaier folks refused to run the meeting in a language that was not German...

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    No way, Tesla could never acquire the interior and talent of... an automotive supplier LOL

    People confuse interior quality with interior design. There is nothing even inherently expensive about Porsche interiors. It's typically a little bit more leather, some dirt cheap aluminum, and some stitching. There's nothing terribly exotic or high-end about the materials. I think I have jackets with better quality leather than most exotic cars, and the black leather on my coat actually looks black rather than dark grey.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Inspirine:

    You are correct I went to Draexlmaier for business. However I am suprised to see Lan Rover in the list. Last time I went there Draexlmaier folks refused to run the meeting in a language that was not German...

     

    They are heavily involved at Jaguar Land Rover. They even have a facility on the site of the JLR Solihull factory (I've seen it when visiting)

    https://uk.draexlmaier.com/uk-locations/solihull/?L=1


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    One-off electric Porsche Cayman e-volution revealed...

    (10 October 2017)

    Porsche has created an all-electric Cayman, named Cayman e-volution, which has been on display at the Electric Vehicle Symposium in its home town of Stuttgart.

    The one-off Cayman has been developed to show how electric cars can still offer sportiness, despite dynamic disadvantages such as increased weight. 

    The Cayman e-volution has a range of around 120 miles and can reach 62mph in 3.3sec – 1.1sec quicker than the current range-topping 2.5-litre 718 Cayman S, with the quick-shifting PDK gearbox. 

    Porsche says the car is a hint at things to come and that it offers a flavour of what to expect from its first production electric vehicle, the Mission E. That car will have four doors, however, and a much larger range of around 310 miles. 

    What the Cayman e-volution does showcase, however, is Porsche’s new Turbo Charging accumulator fast-charging system, which Porsche claims can charge at a capacity of 320kW per vehicle. This will be part of a Europe-wide charger network that Porsche is working on with Audi, BMW, Daimler and Ford.

    The Cayman e-volution will never reach series production, Porsche insists, so the next electric offering from Porsche will be the Mission E, which will land in 2019. Following that, the brand is likely to introduce more electrified and full-electric variants of its models, with solid-state batteries giving greater range, efficiency and improved charging times over standard liquid batteries. Porsche has yet to disclose when these variants will be released.

    Autocar Link: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/one-electric-porsche-cayman-e-volution-revealed

    Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlGiZlPy1dQ

    Smiley Smiley Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Well i thought the fit and finish on my 996 turbo were pretty good. 

    Had 'Naturleder btaun' as an option. Only disturbing thing it was a little bit too much on the yellow side for my taste...

    Otherwise i was very happy with it (the interior ans the car of course!)


    --

    turbolite


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Guess it sounds better than the currents 718 indecision?

    Apologies. The 718 is actually growing on me & am curious about how the 718 GTS will sound.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    werner:

    Guess it sounds better than the currents 718 indecision?

    Apologies. The 718 is actually growing on me & am curious about how the 718 GTS will sound.

    ...the Cayman GT4 RS will sound great with the 4.0 flat-six Porsche motorsport engine! 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    If the Mission E can hit the market in the Tesla S price range, the Tesla will become history!


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Look at the prices of the Panamera. Makes the Tesla look like a bargain.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    964C2:

    If the Mission E can hit the market in the Tesla S price range, the Tesla will become history!


    I really think (and hope) that the Mission-E will be a success, but this "game over" and "tesla will be history" thing is a bit far fetched.

    - Charging infrastructure remotely close to convenience of Teslas Supercharger network?
    - Tesla stand still and does not develop and improve (interior/facelift) the Tesla Model S for the next 3 years?
    - Porsche can deliver enough volumes according to demand in 2020?
    - Porsche will have no issues with their first gen EVs?
    - Range? Porsche say 500km+ NEDC in 2020, Model S 100D is rated at 632km today...
    - Sales organization at Porsche? Should they sell the a Mission-E or a Panamera? It will be difficult times in the showrooms to advice the customer having one leg in the past and the other in the future. The customer that really wants a Mission-E, but can't get one due to restricted volumes, will that customer buy a Panamera E-hybrid instead? Or maybe just not buy anything and wait? Or buy something from a competitor? Hmm...

    No doubt Mission-E will have the nicer looks and interior, but there are lot's of other things that needs to happen being able to outsell the competition. For die hard Porsche fans, the Mission-E will be the natural choice, but for many others, I'm not so sure. Just in the same way that Panamera does not dominate the sedan market.

    Tesla sell about 50k Model S this year and I doubt Porsche will be close to these figures in 2020 or 2021 for the Mission-E independent of price point. What's the annual sales figure for Panamera? 10k?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porsche might have a unexpected sales problem with the Mission E,.... it might look too good.

    Consider that Teslas do not look remarkable or ostentatious in anyway, that in itself is appealing to many purchasers. It has no social stigmas attached to it or notions of high priced servicing, while Porsche does with some people. I can't see that many Tesla buyers switching to Porsche just because it is a Porsche. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    964C2:

    If the Mission E can hit the market in the Tesla S price range, the Tesla will become history!

    Tesla S won't even be in production anymore by the time the mission E comes out...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:
    964C2:

    If the Mission E can hit the market in the Tesla S price range, the Tesla will become history!

    Tesla S won't even be in production anymore by the time the mission E comes out...

    Because Tesla will be bankrupt? SmileySmiley


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    JimFlat6:

    Consider that Teslas do not look remarkable or ostentatious in anyway, that in itself is appealing to many purchasers. It has no social stigmas attached to it or notions of high priced servicing, while Porsche does with some people. I can't see that many Tesla buyers switching to Porsche just because it is a Porsche. 

    That was not the case with the droves that switched to or entered the Porsche brand with the Cayenne or  Macan for instance which I know is a lower price point but still not cheap. 52% of all UK Porsche sales are Macans.


     
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