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    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    looks like the 488 is the first regular Ferrari volume model without the iconic silver prancing horse on its nose..a victory of the styling department and the ever more aggresive front aero requirements engineers demand today over tradition 


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    MKW:

    looks like the 488 is the first regular Ferrari volume model without the iconic silver prancing horse on its nose..a victory of the styling department and the ever more aggresive front aero requirements engineers demand today over tradition 


    F360/Challenge Stradale/F430/Scuderia didn't have it as well. I came back with the 458.


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Rossi:
    MKW:

    looks like the 488 is the first regular Ferrari volume model without the iconic silver prancing horse on its nose..a victory of the styling department and the ever more aggresive front aero requirements engineers demand today over tradition 


    F360/Challenge Stradale/F430/Scuderia didn't have it as well. I came back with the 458.

    it is a cheap looking plastic piece. i am happy to do without.

    p


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    KresoF1:

    In many EU contries full size front licence plate is mandatory by the law. 

    Even worse, exceptions are barely made anymore (Germany for example) and it is getting more and more difficult to get a smaller sized license plate. I have a super small (32 mm) license plate on my Shelby GT500 because the woman at the registration office liked my car (or me Smiley or both). A guy I know registered a similar car (regular Mustang GT) only two weeks after me and he has a FULL license plate (40 cm, shortest you can get without a special permit) in front and a weird looking LARGE square license plate in the rear, although his car document says that the license plate cannot be wider than 34 mm. So weird...

    Mine looks like this (front and rear)

    beetle210.jpg

    and his looks like this

    dsc01316-2085831705141282021.JPG


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     



    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    koko:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxSPELcmvPc

    That sounds disappointing.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    I like it.
    --

     

    J.Seven

     

    997.2 Cab 2S

    Maserati Quattroporte Sport GTS

    BMWX6 4.0D

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    J.Seven:

    I like it.
    --

     

    J.Seven

    same here Smiley 


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    1436495825570image.jpg
    1436495825664image.jpg


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Going with Silver for the magazine color clearly shows that Ferrari is aiming to reach a different layer of clients. They want to address the ones which are up to drive with the car to the super market and not necessarily to the race track. The daily usability of the car for sure is given, now it is time to convince clients about!

    BTW... I love that silver-grey on the magazine!


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Lars997:

    BTW... I love that silver-grey on the magazine!


    Grigio ferro, will cost you only some 9k Euro. Smiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Rossi:
    Lars997:

    BTW... I love that silver-grey on the magazine!


    Grigio ferro, will cost you only some 9k Euro. Smiley

    It was always a bit more expensive owning an exclusive taste Smiley


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Ferrari tried to go silver when they first introduced the 360 coupe and even the spider. It looked very nice on them both.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Lars997:
    Rossi:
    Lars997:

    BTW... I love that silver-grey on the magazine!


    Grigio ferro, will cost you only some 9k Euro. Smiley

    It was always a bit more expensive owning an exclusive taste Smiley


    I would choose Grigio ferro only for a limited version, for the standard car I'd go Argento Nurburgring/Grigio titanio/Grigio silverstone, depending on how light/dark you want your silver-grey.


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Lars997:

    Going with Silver for the magazine color clearly shows that Ferrari is aiming to reach a different layer of clients. They want to address the ones which are up to drive with the car to the super market and not necessarily to the race track. The daily usability of the car for sure is given, now it is time to convince clients about!

    BTW... I love that silver-grey on the magazine!

    i think it was RC who made a reference to the turbo S. i am more and more convinced that he is right. the 488 has much more of a GT-car feel than previous generations (430, 458) of the ferrari 8 cylinder mid engined cars. all this came with the turbos of course. the silver color for the presentation is just one more pointer in this direction.

    i don't like this development at all. my conclusion is to get the F12 GTO if they sell it to me (application submitted::::)))) and if not then wait for the 488Speciale, maybe taking up a second hand speciale or F12 in the meantime. surely the F12 is even more GT-ish but i'd love to have the 12 cylinder experience for a little while.

    peter


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Production delayed for 10-15 days!


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

     

    A nice detailed review.from an f chatter.

     

    Drove the 488 today.. thoughts, photos and videos

    The speculation, the debates, the arguments and the immediate disapproval of the 488 GTB have been entertaining to read about here..... I was lucky enough to keep my head out of the nonsense and wait until today to get to form an actual opinion of the car, with the car at my disposal.

    I drove my 458 today for a charity event with sick children, we picked the kids up took them for about a 25 minute ride and then back to do it again with another kid. With getting there, driving the kids around and the trip back home I put 640km on my 458 and ran through 2.5 tanks of fuel. I cannot count how many rides I gave but I started at 1400 and finished my last drive with my car at 1900 without any stops in-between aside for fuel and a drink of water. The kids ranged from 8-19 and all had an absolute blast. Each saw twisties, the autobahn and some city driving only one of my passengers did not see 300+kmh as she warned me before hand that she wanted to take it easy. I mention this as immediately after the 7 hours of fun, I picked up the 488 and took it out. It was my goal to have just driven the 458 and then get into the 488 to do a true back to back comparison.

    Some of the reviews that you see (EVO being the most dramatic) start with their closed circuit videos of a Speciale where you can tell they spent hours rigging cameras, perfectly placing their microphones and filming the car between 8 and 9000 rpm tearing out of corners sideways while yelling and laughing. They then flash to video of the 488 with a go pro audio recording from the windshield while putting around the track or on a back road talking about how the car has the same something or another as the Speciale... springs? sway bars? who knows.

    Whatever the shared part was, I found it to be a very poor way to open a review on a new car as the same thoroughness in preparation could not be made on each car and it was apparent. Even more so when this car is not replacing the speciale, its replacing the 458

    Enough of my rambling, lets compare cars.

    The brakes on the 488 are remarkable. They have better feel and feedback, better modulation and seem to stop the car nearly 10% better than the 458 brakes do. I have felt that of my cars, the 458 gave me the most confidence in stopping from 300kmh in a hurry and the 488 certainly improved upon this area. 

    Suspension. I am going to give this one to the 458 for now. The 488 in race mode felt softer and has more roll mid turn. I actually thought I may have put the car in rough road setting by accident but had not. It was not particularly slower through the turns nor did it affect performance negatively as you could still fling it around quite nicely but using this as a very far fetched comparison, it had more of a GT feel leaning in the direction of the F12 mid corner but no where near as dramatic. This is not a normal production car that I was in and I am hearing that the feedback from these drives should go into some tuning for final production. I am hoping that the suspension gets firmed up for the later cars.

    Technology. The screens, lights and tones are far advanced over the 458/FF/F12 platform. The TFT displays have more colors are higher resolution and contain much more information than previous. They really do have a nice look and its a welcome update.  

    Interior. The interior fit and finish is just as nice as the 458, nothing that really stood out to me here similar materials similar quality nothing to note. The new design of the dash and center console is pleasant to the eyes and not an improvement but still just as nice. The F12 Reverse, Launch, Auto panel is sharp looking but I did like the set up in the 458. I will go again with different but not better. The carbon fiber door panels... gotta have item here. I loved them and would absolutely take them in my 488. 

    I was able to drive on surface streets, in traffic through town and on the Autobahn. If you're curious, flat out the 488 GTB will do 341 kmh at about 7250rpm and thats all it has in it. It pulls much harder than the 458 anywhere in the RPM and aside from the new brakes, thats probably the best part about this car. I do have a video that I spliced down showing the car hit 341 briefly. On the return trip we did not video but I ran it bouncing between 339 and 340 flat out for 10km straight. It truly felt nice and planted at speed.  

    Here is a video of the car on the Autobahn.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of4hRRkMPO4


    I imagine this is the big one... the sound, from outside, inside and how does it make you feel?

    Exterior Sound. I feel that this is workable with a valveless exhaust system to get more volume. You should hear more of the turbos and a just a bit rougher of a sound. You will not get the NA scream so we will have to do with more noise!  

    Here is a video from the outside of the car revving just a bit. 
    https://youtu.be/dXX8bzpEGiw

    Interior Sound. What can I say? It does not compare to the 458 on any level. The tone, the volume the excitement.... none of it is on the same playing field. Revert to my comment above about an exhaust system possibly being able to clean this up. My first impression was that I did not want the car based on this......Below I will comment on this topic further. 

    Here is a video of some revs and a small acceleration. 

    http://youtu.be/Wn0uj2edQDk

    The Motor. See the above video for this as well. The engine provides very nice linear power band, you can certainly feel what they did with the torque by gear system. The car pulls great from 4000 RPM where as the 458 just does not. The NA motor revs and it revs nicely. It has a very lightweight but strung up feel to it. Put the 488 in neutral, wrap the throttle a few times and its just not as responsive. This has nothing to do with the drive but its a character issue. 

    Its as fast as the F12 but with better traction. The motor really delivers power in a similar method as the F12 and that is an exciting feeling.  

    The rev limiter was very annoying and after my first few minutes with the car I was done w the car for this reason as well. 9000 RPM is nice, you can run the motor out and it just feels right. 7500 RPM is the limiter in manual mode. It does shift at 8000RPM when you use launch control which only makes me think that it would shift at 8000 in Auto mode too. I can say that I did not use Auto mode so I cannot confirm this. The bottom line is that the loss of 1500 RPM just felt strange, I was all over the limiter for the first 15 minutes and it was annoying. Take away 1500 rpm and make a faster accelerating package, people will be annoyed. 

    Things just felt special at 9000..... at 7500 they don't. I can't say more than that. 

    Here is a video of the Launch Control from 0-150 kmh
    https://youtu.be/pP7Fch_6ZZQ

     

    first 30 minutes i stopped for a moment to think about things. I was not too happy, I had just been in my 458 all day, enjoyed the motor, the excitement and loved the car more than I did yesterday. I was kind of bummed even though the breaks were what they were, the car was truly fast and really is good looking in person.  

    I was ready to cancel my order and figure out what to get instead.....

    I then relaxed a bit and took the car out again. A little time now had passed since I was in the 458 and the feelings of what the 488 was lacking had diminished a bit and let me focus more on what it did offer. I went back out, really ran it through its paces, tested the top speed on the autobahn, really got on the brakes and thew it into some decent speed corners... the car started exciting me in a different way. The corner exit speed is amazing, the traction phenomenal, the balance one step better than the 458.  

    All of a sudden I realized I could not compare the two cars in the way that everyone here wants to. I have a choice here, stick with what will very soon be 10 year old design and technology simply because of engine tone and the excitement it delivers or really take my time and find what makes the 488 special.  

    This helped me clear my mind and consider how this is by far the best sounding turbo motor out there, Porsche doesn't compare here. As mentioned above an exhaust system will certainly wake it up and I am excited to see what comes out. What we need to realize is that you do not get this sort of power and torque out of an NA V8. If you want to be this fast in a rear engine V8, you're going to have to sacrifice the engine note.  

    I got to play with the RPMs find how the power was delivered and it was special. They did an amazing job with the power delivery, the traction system the SS2 and this package is certainly better than the 458 platform. The entire system runs smoother, the transmission functions more smoothly and seems less glitchy when coming down to first at lower speeds. Over all it was more refined from a coordination standpoint. 

    After getting back out there and appreciating the car for what it is and what it has improved upon I am okay with what it is not and what it has lost. Will I miss the 9000 RPM NA motor? Yes I will however I will be gaining in other areas that I think will compensate for this. We have a new platform and if you are not the type to adapt you will fight with the 488. If you can get excited about new things, new directions and embrace this car for the truly amazing accomplishment that it is..... You're in for a treat.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Rossi:
    Lars997:

    BTW... I love that silver-grey on the magazine!


    Grigio ferro, will cost you only some 9k Euro. Smiley

    At the Geneva Motorshow, I was told that Grigio ferro is a no cost option metallic paint now; unlike 458.

    But the most of the times, the motor show people don't know anything. 


    --

    ONUR

    THE BEST CAR EVER smiley

    11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Both colors from Geneva cost extra.

    Red one costs like 15K!!


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Koko - thanks for that review repost.  I like the author's conclusion "if you want to be this fast in a rear engine V8, you will  have to sacrifice the engine note....".   You could say that McLaren already reached this conclusion and voted for "fast" when designing the first MP12-4C - they of course had no naturally-aspirated past to worry about.  And of course the ever-increasing demands of environmental efficiency regulations, and noise, also are driving the trend to turbo-everything.  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    I had a chance to drive the 488 shortly yesterday. As I was taking around by Onur a week ago in his gorgeous 458 I kind of had an comparison. 

    First: Yes - it is an impressive car. First thing I noticed. The car felt softer from the seats than the one of Onur. But - his car had the carbon sport-seats. Anyway - the 488 felt softer.  Suspension, grip, etc - it was softer also on the ride. But again - sport suspensions vs. stock settings. 

    In sound it was disappointing. I tried all Manetono settings and barely find a change in sound. The beast didn't come out - at least I didn't hear it inside the car. Onurs 458 screams like the hells angels after a Doberman bites their testicles - but this car was rather like a pussy cat "miawing" for some more milk.

    Acceleration. The car is fast - very fast. But hey, the 458 is the same. I didn't notice it is an Turbo car - would have to lie if I would say I could notice. It Rev's like an combustion engine, it breath like on. Ohhh - hold on, there it was again - that sound of the Turbo - yes, that was clearly notable. 

    Interior, craftmanship, etc. - For me identical to the 458. No change here.

    Would I buy it - maybe with the right sport exhaust. Would I prefer a second hand 458 for probably half the price of a 488 - definitely - as I hardly could see or notice the change.

    I admit that a Ferraristi owning the 458 for sure will feel much more difference than I did. But for me driving now both cars within that short time and not owning an Ferrari, it felt like the same cars. One with sport set up and one with comfort set up.

     

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Thanks for the review Lars. What color was it?


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    koko:

    Thanks for the review Lars. What color was it?

    It was a red one (don't ask me which one) ..... I would not choose it myself. Didn't like it. Interior was sand.

    That's the car:

    488.jpg


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Lol don't worry I won't! 

    Was just curious to hear ur opinion on the color that's all. 


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Lars997:

    I had a chance to drive the 488 shortly yesterday. As I was taking around by Onur a week ago in his gorgeous 458 I kind of had an comparison. 

    First: Yes - it is an impressive car. First thing I noticed. The car felt softer from the seats than the one of Onur. But - his car had the carbon sport-seats. Anyway - the 488 felt softer.  Suspension, grip, etc - it was softer also on the ride. But again - sport suspensions vs. stock settings. 

    In sound it was disappointing. I tried all Manetono settings and barely find a change in sound. The beast didn't come out - at least I didn't hear it inside the car. Onurs 458 screams like the hells angels after a Doberman bites their testicles - but this car was rather like a pussy cat "miawing" for some more milk.

    Acceleration. The car is fast - very fast. But hey, the 458 is the same. I didn't notice it is an Turbo car - would have to lie if I would say I could notice. It Rev's like an combustion engine, it breath like on. Ohhh - hold on, there it was again - that sound of the Turbo - yes, that was clearly notable. 

    Interior, craftmanship, etc. - For me identical to the 458. No change here.

    Would I buy it - maybe with the right sport exhaust. Would I prefer a second hand 458 for probably half the price of a 488 - definitely - as I hardly could see or notice the change.

    I admit that a Ferraristi owning the 458 for sure will feel much more difference than I did. But for me driving now both cars within that short time and not owning an Ferrari, it felt like the same cars. One with sport set up and one with comfort set up.

     

     

    lars,

    your analysis is very accurate. the low-down of the 488 is: super-fast, super-good looking (IMHO, the most beautiful current ferrari not counting the LaFe), much softer than the 458 speciale (as it should be) and still a bit softer than the 458 italia (should not be). by softer i mean less rabid sports car and more GT. good or bad? it depends on the buyer's point of view.

    i for my part hope very much for a F12 GTO quota. cheers peter


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    So basically, the 488 suffers from the 991 Turbo S "effect".  I still think however that Ferrari did it, somehow, the right way by giving the car at least (almost) unbeatable performance in this class. The "benchmark" 991 Turbo S really disappoints for what it costs, especially in comparison with the 488. I just hope the facelift gets at least 600 hp but I doubt it will bring the 991 Turbo S much closer to 488 performance.

    F12 GTO sounds great. kiss


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    RC:

    So basically, the 488 suffers from the 991 Turbo S "effect".  I still think however that Ferrari did it, somehow, the right way by giving the car at least (almost) unbeatable performance in this class. The "benchmark" 991 Turbo S really disappoints for what it costs, especially in comparison with the 488. I just hope the facelift gets at least 600 hp but I doubt it will bring the 991 Turbo S much closer to 488 performance.

    F12 GTO sounds great. kiss

    thanks RC, should get notice on the F12 GTO from ferrari soon. 

    cheers peter


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Lars997:

    I had a chance to drive the 488 shortly yesterday. As I was taking around by Onur a week ago in his gorgeous 458 I kind of had an comparison. 

    First: Yes - it is an impressive car. First thing I noticed. The car felt softer from the seats than the one of Onur. But - his car had the carbon sport-seats. Anyway - the 488 felt softer.  Suspension, grip, etc - it was softer also on the ride. But again - sport suspensions vs. stock settings. 

    In sound it was disappointing. I tried all Manetono settings and barely find a change in sound. The beast didn't come out - at least I didn't hear it inside the car. Onurs 458 screams like the hells angels after a Doberman bites their testicles - but this car was rather like a pussy cat "miawing" for some more milk.

    Acceleration. The car is fast - very fast. But hey, the 458 is the same. I didn't notice it is an Turbo car - would have to lie if I would say I could notice. It Rev's like an combustion engine, it breath like on. Ohhh - hold on, there it was again - that sound of the Turbo - yes, that was clearly notable. 

    Interior, craftmanship, etc. - For me identical to the 458. No change here.

    Would I buy it - maybe with the right sport exhaust. Would I prefer a second hand 458 for probably half the price of a 488 - definitely - as I hardly could see or notice the change.

    I admit that a Ferraristi owning the 458 for sure will feel much more difference than I did. But for me driving now both cars within that short time and not owning an Ferrari, it felt like the same cars. One with sport set up and one with comfort set up.

     

     

    Hi Lars, I´m very surprised with your report, would have thought you would be way way more impressed with 488 Smiley All press have been saying the difference in power compared with 458 is huge so it´s strange you didn´t felt the difference! You really don´t seem impressed with anything , even the design difference between the two, handling, sound! Do you think by spending more time with the car you could change you mind?


    --

    J.Seven

    997.2 Cab 2S

    Maserati Quattroporte Sport GTS

    BMW X6 4.0D

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    J.Seven:
    All press have been saying the difference in power compared with 458 is huge so it´s strange you didn´t felt the difference!

    Press is writing a lot - objectively, a difference in power of approx. 15% is noticeable but not super impressive. Other elements of sensation (sound, design, feel) might be more important than just this power increase... These cars are all quick. What makes the difference is not the engine power Smiley


     
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