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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    MKSGR:

    If Tesla should survive as an independent company until 2020 this would be a major success already... They should focus to resolve the disaster they are in right now and not add other trucks, speedsters etc. to a product portfolio that exists in the virtual only (model 3).

    Good point, well made.

    Speaking to equity and credit analysts that cover Tesla, it is evident that Model 3 delays and capex plus operating costs resulting in significant cash burn. Q3 results poor and share price down 20% from high, so not a good backdrop to raise equity. But the company needs to raise liquidity before year-end to avoid "going concern" discussion with auditors!

    So what do they do?

    Announce a speculative new product and ask the first 1000 customers to pay $250k upfront, i.e. a $250 million interest free unsecured loan for 3 years or so. 

    If the company fails to deliver in 2018, the Roadster will never make production and customers will have lost their $250 million in deposits, given there is $10 billion in senior ranking debt.

    Here's a quote from the Financial Times...

    "The company has already begun to take reservations for the new Roadster, which will cost $200,000 when it is released in at least three years’ time. Prospective buyers must pay a $45,000 deposit, but the first 1,000 produced will be a limited-edition “Founders Series” costing $250,000 upfront.

    If Mr Musk succeeds in selling all those to his wealthy fans in Silicon Valley and beyond, it will give Tesla’s finances an instant $250m boost."

    FT article link: http://app.ft.com/cms/s/095e5a76-cb4f-11e7-ab18-7a9fb7d6163e.html

     

    Cause Tesla-believers has become a cult that follows whatever Elon says.

    https://realmoney.thestreet.com/articles/11/17/2017/tesla-color-me-not-impressed-market-recon?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO&ypt...

    Top of this article is some additions.

    Tesla has already burn through 4 billion in related expenses for the Model 3 last fiscal year. and from that they made.......250 cars.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    MKSGR:

    If Tesla should survive as an independent company until 2020 this would be a major success already... They should focus to resolve the disaster they are in right now and not add other trucks, speedsters etc. to a product portfolio that exists in the virtual only (model 3).

    Good point, well made.

    Speaking to equity and credit analysts that cover Tesla, it is evident that Model 3 delays and capex plus operating costs resulting in significant cash burn. Q3 results poor and share price down 20% from high, so not a good backdrop to raise equity. But the company needs to raise liquidity before year-end to avoid "going concern" discussion with auditors!

    So what do they do?

    Announce a speculative new product and ask the first 1000 customers to pay $250k upfront, i.e. a $250 million interest free unsecured loan for 3 years or so. 

    If the company fails to deliver in 2018, the Roadster will never make production and customers will have lost their $250 million in deposits, given there is $10 billion in senior ranking debt.

    Here's a quote from the Financial Times...

    "The company has already begun to take reservations for the new Roadster, which will cost $200,000 when it is released in at least three years’ time. Prospective buyers must pay a $45,000 deposit, but the first 1,000 produced will be a limited-edition “Founders Series” costing $250,000 upfront.

    If Mr Musk succeeds in selling all those to his wealthy fans in Silicon Valley and beyond, it will give Tesla’s finances an instant $250m boost."

    FT article link: http://app.ft.com/cms/s/095e5a76-cb4f-11e7-ab18-7a9fb7d6163e.html

     

    Cause Tesla-believers has become a cult that follows whatever Elon says.

    https://realmoney.thestreet.com/articles/11/17/2017/tesla-color-me-not-impressed-market-recon?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO&ypt...

    Top of this article is some additions.

    Tesla has already burn through 4 billion in related expenses for the Model 3 last fiscal year. and from that they made.......250 cars.

     


    In comparison to the much different cult that buy every "special" edition Porsche model because it makes sense Smiley

    Isn't what you call "cult" just some sort of brand loyalty and brand liking? There are people who actually like Tesla products. What's wrong with that?


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    lukestern:
    Whoopsy:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    MKSGR:

    If Tesla should survive as an independent company until 2020 this would be a major success already... They should focus to resolve the disaster they are in right now and not add other trucks, speedsters etc. to a product portfolio that exists in the virtual only (model 3).

    Good point, well made.

    Speaking to equity and credit analysts that cover Tesla, it is evident that Model 3 delays and capex plus operating costs resulting in significant cash burn. Q3 results poor and share price down 20% from high, so not a good backdrop to raise equity. But the company needs to raise liquidity before year-end to avoid "going concern" discussion with auditors!

    So what do they do?

    Announce a speculative new product and ask the first 1000 customers to pay $250k upfront, i.e. a $250 million interest free unsecured loan for 3 years or so. 

    If the company fails to deliver in 2018, the Roadster will never make production and customers will have lost their $250 million in deposits, given there is $10 billion in senior ranking debt.

    Here's a quote from the Financial Times...

    "The company has already begun to take reservations for the new Roadster, which will cost $200,000 when it is released in at least three years’ time. Prospective buyers must pay a $45,000 deposit, but the first 1,000 produced will be a limited-edition “Founders Series” costing $250,000 upfront.

    If Mr Musk succeeds in selling all those to his wealthy fans in Silicon Valley and beyond, it will give Tesla’s finances an instant $250m boost."

    FT article link: http://app.ft.com/cms/s/095e5a76-cb4f-11e7-ab18-7a9fb7d6163e.html

     

    Cause Tesla-believers has become a cult that follows whatever Elon says.

    https://realmoney.thestreet.com/articles/11/17/2017/tesla-color-me-not-impressed-market-recon?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO&ypt...

    Top of this article is some additions.

    Tesla has already burn through 4 billion in related expenses for the Model 3 last fiscal year. and from that they made.......250 cars.

     


    In comparison to the much different cult that buy every "special" edition Porsche model because it makes sense Smiley

    Isn't what you call "cult" just some sort of brand loyalty and brand liking? There are people who actually like Tesla products. What's wrong with that?

     

    Cult is narrow focus, thinking their leader is the greatest and can't be wrong and everyone else that criticizes are wrong. Nothing wrong with liking Tesla products, but when someone defends Tesla pointlessly, then that's cult.

    Yes I do buy a lot of Porsches, but I also buy everything else. Right now in my garage there are Porsches, Land Rover, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, BMW, Honda, VW. 7 different brands. And there had been Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, Volvo, Lexus, Mazda, Jeep, Lincoln, Chevrolet, Ford, Acura, Audi, probably a couple more that I forgot. Don't think that's called brand loyalty.

    I do defend Porsche at times, yet you all have all seen me trash them too when they are wrong. 

    Have any Tesla cultists ever trash Tesla? Nope!

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Plenty of people. Just because you only read die-hards on the Tesla Motors forum or Reddit doesn't mean people don't complain about them. Hell, even on those sites plenty of people complain about stuff. They believe in the end game but they don't all worship everything in its current state.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    Right now in my garage there are Porsches, Land Rover, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, BMW, Honda, VW. 7 different brands.

    No more Ferrari? What's up?

    I am interested in how you park all your cars, as no way you can park them all at your house.

    I only got 5 and needed to park one 911 at my Mom's place in winter in order to spare an enclosed garage for both SUV to be parked inside.

    Do you always pick on some little problems on the cars so you can park them at the dealers?Smiley 


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    Cult is narrow focus, thinking their leader is the greatest and can't be wrong and everyone else that criticizes are wrong. Nothing wrong with liking Tesla products, but when someone defends Tesla pointlessly, then that's cult.

    There are probably a camp of people who can't see anything wrong with Tesla, just like Apple, but in reality it is a high pitched minority. Most owners are not the ones trolling around Internet and commenting on Youtube about Ludicrous mode. People doing that are probably 99% non-owners and more wannabe teenagers behind a computer.

    Yes I do buy a lot of Porsches, but I also buy everything else. Right now in my garage there are Porsches, Land Rover, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, BMW, Honda, VW. 7 different brands. And there had been Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, Volvo, Lexus, Mazda, Jeep, Lincoln, Chevrolet, Ford, Acura, Audi, probably a couple more that I forgot. Don't think that's called brand loyalty.

    That's a lovely collection of brands with a few exceptions and I wish I had many of those cars in my own garage Smiley

    I do defend Porsche at times, yet you all have all seen me trash them too when they are wrong.

    Have any Tesla cultists ever trash Tesla? Nope!


    Depends on meaning of "trashing". I myself for instance like Tesla and their products, but I have no problems finding both pros and cons. Like I have written many times before, I would pick a Porsche in a heartbeat or any other brand like Audi or even VW if the launch a package that is more appealing. My posts is more oriented towards EVs in general and I try to balance out a few topics in here when things that I don't agree with pops up. The EV topics happen to involve Tesla a lot because there are not that many other options yet.

    Concerning this Roadster I actually think the specs are fantastic and I like the design. Sure, they maybe will not come up with a chassis like a Porsche, the batteries might overheat, etc, but until we know how things will end up its exciting to follow the progress forward and see if we get any respons to this car from other brands.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    noone1:

    It's highly unlikely Tesla even in bankruptcy would burn depositors.

    Erm, you might like to do a bit or research on Chapter 11 and ranking of creditors...

    Recovery on Customer Deposits

    "Bankruptcy Code Section 507(a)(7) establishes a priority for unsecured claims of individuals arising from Customer Deposits towards the purchase of goods that were not delivered up to a maximum of $2,600.  The remaining portion of the un-refunded deposit would become a general unsecured claim. Consumers owed deposits are only paid after all of the secured creditors and administrative expenses of the bankruptcy (such as bankruptcy lawyers’ fees) are paid.  As priority creditors, holders of deposits would be paid up to $2,600 before any general unsecured obligations of the retailer are satisfied."

    ...Tesla secured debt is highly likely to exceed available liquidity under a Chapter 11 scenario, so customer deposits are likely to be facing a maximum recovery of $2,600 -- or more likely zero!  Smiley

    If you are happy to give Tesla a free unsecured loan for 3 or more years, which the market will not, it might be a good idea to hedge your exposure... Smiley

    I greatly disagree on that their secured debt is more than the liquidated value.

    Also, if you think a company is going to come out of chapter 11 still selling cars to customers they fleeced out of $50-250K, you might as well not even bother coming out of bankruptcy since you'll have destroyed your reputation.

    Also, there is no obligation for bond holders to screw over customers outside of complete liquidation. If bond holders believe it's best to honor those obligations, then they will.

    It sounds like you haven't had the pleasure of Chapter 11 with high yield fund managers exercising fiduciary duties on behalf of their credit investors. High yield portfolio managers are not employed to be "nice" to unsecured creditors, particularly in a distressed situation. Indeed, they are actually obliged to extract maximum value for bondholders - without regard to other categories of creditors.

    In some cases, bondholders may agree to provide additional liquidity to help the company exit from Chapter 11, e.g. when their secured debt claim is being converted to become the new class of controlling shareholders (and old shareholders get zero) - but that would be to help future working capital requirements... not to bail out unsecured creditors! Smiley

    Chapter 11 would not result in a good outcome for shareholders, existing customers, future depositors, employees, bondholders, unsecured creditors, suppliers, JV partners, brand value, Elon Musk and other members of senior management!  Smiley

    On the other hand, there is likely to be plenty of litigation to keep lawyers busy... Smiley

    Tesla's unfettered ambition to drain finances: analysts

    17 November 2917 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc will face further questions about how fast it is burning through its cash pile and how soon it will have to ask creditors and shareholders for more after it unveiled its latest electric vehicles.

    Link: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-truck-research/teslas-unfettered-ambition-to-drain-finances-analysts-idUSKBN1DH1M4


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Nick, the one thing about you that we all can rely on is you're honest and trustworthy in appraising cars. I never read a post of yours that I felt you were being disingenuous. kiss

    Maybe yet again I am in the minority but electric cars don't do much for me because of the lack of sound. Without sound they lack the sensuousness required for emotional driving experience. The car then becomes only a mode of transportation and nothing more.yes


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    That would imply that bondholders believe they'd get more of their money back destroying Tesla, then some other form of bankruptcy outcome.

    The point of converting to equity and becoming the main shareholders is not to bail out un secured debt from customers, it would be to stop from destroying your the goodwill and intangible value of the brand. If you burn customers for hundreds of millions of dollars including model 3 reservations, you'd only be hurting yourself.

    As of right now Tesla is worth 50 billion dollars. Bondholders would be morons to try and ruin the company in Chapter 11. They have less of a chance recouping their money like that then they would by restructuring and trying to fix the business.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    A quick search yielded that Tesla only has $6.9bio in debt...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I think they have 10B now. Imo, it's still much less than what the company is worth.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    $7.6B, two callable bonds maturing in 25, four convertible bonds maturing in 18 19 21 and 22...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The absolute worst-case for Tesla is obviously liquidation and out of business, but people forget that there are lots of other solutions; solutions with huge cash flows.

    Tesla will be bought long before it goes bankrupt. Toyota, Google, Apple... lots of people can't pay Tesla's debts if they think there is value in it, and no doubt Tesla has many billions of value.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    As disclosed in Tesla's Q3 filing...

    1510947621918image.jpeg


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I guess we were both right lol...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    It's also worth keeping an eye on Tesla's sub-investment grade credit ratings...

    Moody's assigns B2 CFR to Tesla, B3 to unsecured notes; outlook is stable

    Global Credit Research - 07 Aug 2017

    New York, August 07, 2017 -- Moody's Investors Service assigned a B2 Corporate Family Rating (CFR) to Tesla, Inc., and also assigned a B3 rating to the company's offering of senior unsecured notes. The company's Speculative Grade Liquidity is SGL-3, and the rating outlook is stable.

    RATINGS RATIONALE

    The B2 CFR reflects Moody's expectation that the launch, production ramp up, and market acceptance of the Model 3 will be successful enough to achieve approximately 300,000 unit sales during 2018 (a full-year sales rate averaging about 5,500 per week) with a gross margin approximating 25%. This level of sales and profitability would enable Tesla to strengthen its performance from sizable losses to an operating position that supports the B2 CFR. The B2 rating is further supported by Moody's expectation than in the event of severe financial or operating stress, Tesla's brand name, production facilities, and product lineup would have considerable value to another automotive OEM or technology firm targeting the electric vehicle and mobility markets. 

    The B3 rating of the unsecured notes reflects the junior position of the notes relative to the company's $1.9 billion secured credit facility.

    The stable outlook reflects Moody's expectations that the shipment levels and profitability of the Model 3, combined with an adequate liquidity profile, will enable the company to materially strengthen its operating performance and credit metrics during 2018. 

    Bruce Clark, Senior Vice President with Moody's, said "With the Model 3 Tesla has brought together the technologies, design and manufacturing processes that have the potential to produce a profitable, high-volume electric vehicle that also has advanced autonomous driving capabilities." Clark further noted, "The major challenge facing the company during the next twelve months will largely be the considerable execution risks associated with the rapid ramp up in production of a totally new vehicle."

    Tesla faces significant risks as it attempts to take production of the Model 3 from a targeted rate of 5,000 per week in early 2018 to 10,000 per week by year-end 2018. This targeted plan could put full-year production in excess of 350,000 units. This compares with a US market for full electric vehicle that was approximately 85,000 units in 2016. The company must also sustain strong customer support for the vehicle during this challenging operating period. Beyond this launch phase, Tesla will also have to contend with what will likely be an accelerated competitive response from both auto OEMs as well as technology firms that are targeting the automotive mobility market.

    As a result of the rapid ramp up in Model 3 production and the significant increase in capital expenditures required under the production plan, we expect that Tesla will remain free cash flow negative into 2019. Given this negative free cash flow outlook, the uncertainties associated with the launch of the Model 3, and the potential cash requirements necessary to cover the maturities of its convertible debt, Tesla will face large cash requirements through 2018. The liquidity resources available to the company provide moderately adequate coverage of these cash requirements. This is reflected in the SGL-3 liquidity rating. Tesla's principal liquidity sources include the company's $3 billion in cash, proceeds from the proposed note offering, and $900 million available under its $1.9 billion secured revolver. Without the proceeds from the note offering, Tesla's liquidity position would be stressed. 

    Tesla's rating could be upgraded if the launch, production ramp up, and market acceptance of the Model 3 maintain a trajectory for unit sales exceeding 350,000 units for 2018. Credit metrics that would support an upgrade include EBITA/interest on track to exceed 1.5x and debt/EBITDA below 5.0x. Under most scenarios Tesla will remain free cash flow negative through 2018 due to its growing capital expenditure plans. However, a ratio of retained cash flow to debt above 25% would support an upgrade.

    The rating could be downgraded if there are major production or quality problems for the Model 3, if consumer demand erodes to the degree that the company cannot maintain its 5,000 per week production target through 2018, or if the level of Model 3 reservations supported by $1,000 deposits fall from the current level of 455,000 to below 350,000. A ratio of EBIT/interest approximating 0.5x would also pressure the rating.

    The following rating actions were taken:

    Assignments:

    ..Issuer: Tesla, Inc.

    .... Probability of Default Rating, Assigned B2-PD

    .... Speculative Grade Liquidity Rating, Assigned SGL-3

    .... Corporate Family Rating, Assigned B2

    ....Backed Senior Unsecured Regular Bond/Debenture, Assigned B3 (LGD 4)

    Outlook Actions:

    ..Issuer: Tesla, Inc.

    ....Outlook, Assigned Stable

    The principal methodology used in these ratings was Automobile Manufacturer Industry published in June 2017.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Let us not forget their first car. Also a roadster and it handled well. Thanks to Lotus. There is little doubt that at least the same type of expertise will be in play.  I don't think they would make a sports car looking brick that only goes forward. Although with the speeds this thing can go cornering will not make much difference. Lol. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    For anyone curious as to why Tesla's credit ratings may be relevant...

    Likelihood And Consequences Of A Tesla Credit Downgrade

    • Tesla will probably be downgraded by one or both of the main credit rating agencies in the near future.
    • A downgrade will take its unsecured debt into the "C" rating range.
    • The company's access to new debt from the public bond markets will likely be insufficient to cover a significant proportion of its capital needs.

    When Tesla issued $1.8 billion of junk bonds in August, it sought and received ratings on the bonds from both Moody's and Standard & Poor's, the two largest credit rating agencies. The ratings of the bonds were:

    1. B3, with a stable outlook by Moody's (a newly assigned rating); and
    2. B-, with a negative outlook, by Standard & Poor's (a reaffirmation of a previously assigned rating).

    For those unfamiliar with credit ratings, here is a simple summary:

    Ratings Table

    In addition, Moody's gave the company a rating with regard to its liquidity - speculative grade 3 or SGL-3, which Moody's defines as:

    SGL-3

    While most of the comments in this article are applicable to both agencies, I will concentrate on Moody's, which are more open and makes more information available to the public than S&P, which restrict much information to subscribers. In particular, Moody's provided an informative press release when rating the bonds, on which this article will draw extensively. Note that Moody's gave a B2 rating to the Tesla "corporate family", while assigning a lower rating of B3 to the bonds, because the bonds, while technically senior obligations of Tesla, effectively rank junior to the $1.9 billion secured debt because of the extensive security interests given to the secured lenders. Since this article is looking at Tesla's ability to issue more junk bonds, the B3 rating is more relevant here.

    Likelihood And Consequences Of A Tesla Credit Downgrade

    Will Tesla be downgraded?

    Moody's helpfully summarized the primary factors which might lead to a downgrade (or an upgrade). Those factors are:

    Downgrade Factors

    Has the Model 3 had any major production or quality problems? If any readers have not been keeping up with current events, I recommend Montana Skeptic's excellent commentaries. As for EBIT/Interest, Moody's hope that Tesla would earn enough before interest and taxes to pay half its interest bill looks very optimistic in the light of the recent 10-Q:

    TESLA Moodys EBIT

    The ratio, which had been improving, has fallen dramatically, and that is despite the fact that only about six weeks of interest accrued on the junk bonds during the third quarter.

    How about other factors supporting Moody's rating? It based the rating for Tesla on the expectation that:

    1. "the launch, production ramp up, and market acceptance of the Model 3 will be successful enough to achieve approximately 300,000 unit sales during 2018 (a full-year sales rate averaging about 5,500 per week) with a gross margin approximating 25%"; and 
    2. "Tesla's brand name, production facilities, and product lineup would have considerable value to another automotive OEM or technology firm targeting the electric vehicle and mobility markets".

    There seems little possibility that 300,000 units will be produced in 2018. Musk said on the Q3 conference call that he expects "to achieve a production rate of 5,000 Model 3 vehicles per week by late Q1 2018". Montana Skeptic's convincing argument suggests that even if everything starts to function perfectly from now, Tesla only has capacity for 5,000 cars per week. As for the gross margin, even if we use the company's controversial definition of gross margin, it is now claiming only 18%, far from Moody's target. Finally, while I think all agree that there is value to an acquirer in the brand and in the product line-up, few acquirers are likely to assign much value to production facilities that have been so publicly shown not to work.

    Likelihood And Consequences Of A Tesla Credit Downgrade

    S&P is less forthcoming, simply stating that, "Negative outlook reflects Tesla's increased execution challenges over next 12 months, raising risks related to sustainability of capital structure". As discussed, above, the challenges have turned out to be show stoppers.

    Based all of the above, I believe that a downgrade in the near future is highly likely. It seems the market agrees. Tesla's junk bonds now trade at a yield of 6.32%, a full percentage point above the August issue yield. A move of this magnitude generally presages a significant credit event, such as a down grade or a default. This move was not due to a general rise in junk bond yields. The price of the high-yield SPYDR, the SPDR Bloomberg Barclays High Yield Bond ETF, which is a useful proxy for the high yield market as a whole, was 36.77 at the close on 8/17/17, the day when Tesla's bonds were issued, and closed at 36.68 on 11/10/17. Despite the support from the company's retail fan base, the bond trades worse than the average B rated bond. 

    So, what if Tesla does get downgraded?

    From Moody's B3, the next step down is to Caa1 (the S&P equivalent is from B- to CCC+). This move from the B range to the C range is significant.

    Firstly, the debt is much more expensive. A recent (September) 8-year bond issue by a Caa1/CCC+ corporation (Golden Nugget, Inc.) priced at 8.75%, more than 3% higher than Tesla's August issue.

    Secondly, there is much less capital. Most high yield indices and institutional high yield investors allocate much less capital to C range investments than to B range investments. According to peritusasset, the high yield bond market in the US has total issuance of approximately $1.6 trillion. Again according to Peritus, high yield issuance is running at about $29 billion monthly. While it is difficult to establish how much went to each rating level, an approximate amount may be found by looking at two of the largest high yield aggregators - JNK, which tracks the Bloomberg Barclays High Yield Very Liquid Index, and the iShares iBoxx $ High Yield Corporate Bond ETF, which tracks the Markit iBoxx USD Liquid High Yield Index.

    Likelihood And Consequences Of A Tesla Credit Downgrade

    In the case of JNK, the allocation is...:

    JNK alloc

    ... while in the case of HYG, it is:

    HYG alloc

    This suggests that the monthly pool of available capital for Caa/CCC issuance is around 12-15% of the $29 billion, thus around $3.5-4.4 billion, while the pool for B/B is $11.6-12.2 billion - almost 3 times larger. If Tesla, subsequent to a downgrade, sought to issue the same amount of bonds as it did in August, it would be soaking up approximately half the monthly available funds for the entire country - not a realistic prospect. And it seems likely, after the August experience, that the retail fan base will have discovered the unpleasant truth about low-rated junk bonds - you get much of the downside of the equity and none of the upside - so they will not be there to provide additional funds.

    Persons more expert than I, notably Andreas Hopf, EnerTuition, Montana Skeptic and Bill Cunningham, have suggested that the company will need very large cash infusions within the next few months. Elon Musk better hope that investors are feeling generous, because the bond market is unlikely to be sympathetic.

    So, in summary, equity investors who agree with the above experts that Tesla will need a lot more cash soon should consider that the cash will likely not be available from the debt markets. The best case is, therefore, that there will be another dilutive equity raise. The worst case is that equity is also unavailable, leading to a rapid collapse into default and bankruptcy. Debt investors should consider the likelihood that the junk bonds will trade down toward Caa1/CCC+ yields, which would probably require another 10% fall in the bonds' trading price.

    Link: http://seekingalpha.com/article/4124487-likelihood-consequences-tesla-credit-downgrade


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I think a good question people should ask, is if Tesla put itself up for sale for 10 billion dollars today, would there be a buyer?

    I'm of the opinion that there would be.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    @ Boxster Coupe GTS - interesting analyses, just curious - do you follow all the car manufacturers financials with this detail? Or is Tesla a particular interest?  I would guess for a while the outlook for VW was also not too rosy...


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Reserved my roadster. This car is insane!


    --

    Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    10,000nm torque! My p100d is painful now at a stand still and full acceleration. This thing will be v painful!


    --

    Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I just want to see what sort of reinforcement Tesla will need on the driveshaft for 10,000nm. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    If the next S looks more like this it will make a huge leap forward in terms of design IMHO. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:

    I think a good question people should ask, is if Tesla put itself up for sale for 10 billion dollars today, would there be a buyer?

    I'm of the opinion that there would be.

    Maybe a Chinese manufacturer... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I bet VW or Mercedes would buy them for $10B even... Their brand alone is worth billions.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:

    I bet VW or Mercedes would buy them for $10B even... Their brand alone is worth billions.

    Its not the S10B that is the issue, its what needs investing after that.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    "Musk has pulled off the oldest trick in the book" (Autocar)

    Not achieving your production targets? Unveil not one, but two new vehicles so that everyone forgets...

    It’s the oldest trick in the book: using a surprise announcement to deflect from a negative, persistent story.

    And no-one is more familiar recently with a negative, persistent story than Tesla boss Elon Musk who has had his company’s credibility tested lately, having made very bold claims about Model 3 production models, which so far, it has failed miserably to deliver on.

    To repeat a number that so many have jumped on recently: only 260 Model 3s were built in a week, when Musk had claimed 5000 would be built in that timeframe.

    So, what do you do when the world, not least the stock market on which your company floats, is seriously questioning your ability to deliver?

    You reveal not one, but two hugely impressive vehicles. The Tesla Semi lorry alone is impressive. It might not have the looks of a roadster, but it does reportedly achieve 0-60mph in 5sec. 5sec for a lump of that size is hugely impressive.

    But while the Tesla Semi reveal last night had been planned for some time - though also delayed, with Musk stating last month that he was “diverting resources to fix Model 3 bottlenecks” – the unveil of a new Tesla Roadster was a monumental surprise for most of the world. And of course, Musk doesn’t do things by halves. The Roadster will have a 200kWh battery, double that of its current model line-up meaning a range of 620 miles, accelerates from 0-60mph in an astounding 1.9sec and looks stunning.

    So did Musk always plan to reveal the Roadster alongside the Semi, or was it the PR coup of the year to detract from everything that’s going wrong at Tesla? For now, we don’t know. It seems odd to lessen the effect of either vehicle by revealing them both at once. It’s true that they are for different buyers, but given the media’s obsession with Tesla, there’s plenty of outlets which cover both. All of which means that both the Semi and the Roadster gets slightly less coverage.

    Musk doesn’t – and probably shouldn’t - care. The internet is flooded with Tesla this morning and, for now, all anyone can think about is the wow factor of the new Roadster.

    But once the dust settles and we all get back to the realities of life, Musk’s shareholders will still be watching for this: that Musk can deliver all the Model 3s he promised. It is this feat which will ensure the company longevity long beyond a pretty sports car...

    Autocar link: https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/new-cars/opinion-musk-has-pulled-oldest-trick-book


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    1511020873340image.jpeg

    ...Smiley ...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The sources from where all the negative comments originate from is not a surprise  smiley

    Tesla really hit the nail with this reveal, big time! The masses love it and the traditional auto industry hate it because they don't have anything to respond with.


     
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