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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:
    Whoopsy:

    Porsche have bought a few Teslas during their development of the Taycan, they already know exactly what a stock Tesla can do. It is us that don't know. 

     

    Probably one of Porsche biggest mistake. They have benchmarked against an old drivetrain from 2012. The Raven drivetrain and now this 3-motor new setup will probably come as a huge surprise.

     

    Seriously I called this one. 

    With the Taycan Porsche raised the roof of the EV segment and created a space for Tesla to update the Model S and move up in pricing. Now Elon doesn't have to sweat putting in new stuff inside the Model S and bee confined to the old pricing, he got room now. 

    Elon seriously dodged a bullet from Porsche and now he should thank them. 

    But honestly, Tesla seriously need to move to 800V soon. There is no downside and only upside. Less weight and less heat and more performance. 

     


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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    "- 2 hours on Saturday 21st : Ring blocked for Tesla only"

    I'm racing on that day. Not sure Tesla will be able to get into the ra

    Ring + GP is busy from 08.30-18.50 with Youngtimer Trophy and RCN

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Carlos from Spain:

    Not to mention that it's a non production prototype which makes the whole exercise worthless.

    In contrary: with using a prototype of a totally new car they highlight that the product sold to customers is incapable of delivering reasonable performance Smiley Basically, they confirm all the bad opinions about the current product line.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Not to mention that it's a non production prototype which makes the whole exercise worthless. Prototypes are running in the ring all the times and nobody publishes those lap times for obvious reasons, ring lap times are only about production spec vehicles with factory options that clients can buy in a dealership.

    You mean like Porsche did with the Taycan Smiley

    Published a youtube video on 26th of August. In the YT-video it clearly states "Porsche Taycan Prototype" for the 7:42 record:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vL637IMMX4

     

    Porsche knows very well that Sportauto and Autozeitung will do NBR tests of the production car. They will never publish NBR times that cannot be matched by the magazines later Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Musk said himself that this platform is still a year away from production, and a year in Tesla time is an eternity and very far from production form, if it ever makes it into production, the only reason they brought this mule in such a rush is because of all the spotlight the Taycan has taken away from Tesla, and that Musk's ego couldn't handle.

    We'll see about that when the time comes. There has been lot's of rumors going on with an updated S and Tesla don't want to let too much out of the bag, because that will Osborn the Model S sales even more and that's not something they want.

     

    Model S certainly needs a complete refresh - It looks so dated on the streets Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    MKSGR:
    lukestern:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Musk said himself that this platform is still a year away from production, and a year in Tesla time is an eternity and very far from production form, if it ever makes it into production, the only reason they brought this mule in such a rush is because of all the spotlight the Taycan has taken away from Tesla, and that Musk's ego couldn't handle.

    We'll see about that when the time comes. There has been lot's of rumors going on with an updated S and Tesla don't want to let too much out of the bag, because that will Osborn the Model S sales even more and that's not something they want.

     

    Model S certainly needs a complete refresh - It looks so dated on the streets Smiley

    One recalls reading a couple of months ago that Porsche did not benchmark the Taycan against the Model S.  That is very evident when attempting to compare the two vehicles.  The Porsche, as written before, is more a spiritual successor to the evergreen 911, but one built for the family.  Of course, it will not replace the 911 as an EV lacks the emotional quotient associated with sound and the overall weight distribution of the 911.  It can, however, provide a similarly invigorating drive through the application of modern electronic aids.   

    Tesla made a good first effort but it is no Porsche nor will it ever rival Porsche.  Other very successful automakers have tried to emulate the success of the 911, for example, to no avail.  Porsche engineering is just that good and the silicon valley company simply lacks the required expertise to make a heavy vehicle handle well.  Comparing statistics is no substitute for the qualitative feel of a Porsche.  

    On a slightly separate topic on the Taycan's pricing.  In the United States tax code is something called the Section 179 deduction, which allows small business owners to accelerate depreciation of certain assets including vehicles with a GVWR between 6,000 and 10,000 pounds.  There's reason why several SUVs and several cars seem so heavy including the Taycan.  


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Tesla Model S track testing... Smiley

     

    Video Link:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBKsu1szjso

    Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    "Tesla Nurburgring record: The real reason Nico Rosberg isn’t driving"

    1568408965520image.jpeg

    The former Formula One driver is not allowed to attempt a Nurburgring record in the Tesla Model S at such short notice – despite being an F1 champion.

    Former Formula 1 driver Nico Rosberg won’t be behind the wheel of Tesla’s Nurburgring record attempt because he isn’t qualified enough – and it’s likely he wasn’t aware of the rules when he offered his driving services via Twitter.

    While Rosberg is qualified to race on the circuit, he doesn’t have a licence that makes him eligible to participate in car industry track testing days, which involves a three-day assessment, training and accreditation process.

    Some have speculated he might get a free pass given he is Germany’s most recent F1 champion, however it’s more likely Thomas Mutsch was chosen ahead of Rosberg because Mutsch has more experience on the perilous 20.8km circuit than the former F1 champion.

    While Mutsch has not announced and Tesla has not confirmed he's driving, his helmet can be seen in some of the photos from Thursday’s session, where the car completed just five laps.

    1568409014363image.jpeg

    Some helpful background on what it takes to become an approved automotive industry test-day driver at the Nurburgring can be found on performance websites Evo and Motor, the latter quoting Holden test driver Rob Trubiani, who earned the qualifications to set a lap record in the Holden SS ute.

    Nico Rosberg started the speculation on driving for Tesla via Twitter with a message to Tesla boss Elon Musk that said “give me a call if you need a decent driver to do the lap!”. Musk replied: “Thanks for offering! Sure, that would be great".

    Then, by chance, CarAdvice’s electric-car expert Paul Maric bumped into Rosberg at this week’s Frankfurt Motor Show. When asked how the Tesla drive was progressing, he replied: “I’m still in discussions with Tesla, nothing has been confirmed yet”. Rosberg declined to answer further questions and the conversation wrapped up.

    The next day a red Tesla Model S with wider wheels, fender flares and a rear wing was spotted on public roads near the Nurburgring.

    1568409053758image.jpeg

    On Thursday the same car completed just five laps of the circuit during the automotive industry test day. Photos show the helmet of Thomas Mutsch behind the wheel.

    Musk said the team needs more time: “we probably won't try for best lap time this week as we need to review and tune Model S thoroughly for safety on Nurburgring, especially Flugplatz section”.

    Mutsch is a formidable choice. The German driver is a Nurburgring and LeMans specialist, competing in the FIA GT and FIA GT3 championships.

    Link:  https://www.caradvice.com.au/792847/tesla-nurburgring-record-the-real-reason-nico-rosberg-isnt-driving/

    Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    This is a win win for both Porsche and Tesla. It elevates EV cars to perform on the same level as combustion engine cars.


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    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

     

     

     

     For Tesla that rear lip looks pretty much production level finishSmiley, but I doubt those tires will make it the production version Smiley


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    So tesla is putting their hyper car power train into the model S and X. My P100D is already brutal in acceleration. 

    Need to get my Taycan deposit back. Would have got one if they were around $120-130k. Their announced pricing is insulting and offensive - and I can afford to get one. Can’t imagine they will get more than 1000 of the deposit holders to buy one.  


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    Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Carlos from Spain:
    For Tesla that rear lip looks pretty much production level finishSmiley, but I doubt those tires will make it the production version Smiley
     


    SmileySmileySmiley


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    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Regarding Porsche's pricing for the Taycan, yes, it would have been more fair to price it $20-30k less than they asking.  Unfortunately, Porsche prices all of their vehicles in a fairly linear way according to their performance.  With the equivalent of over 700hp, they cannot sell the car for $120k when there are base 911s being sold for that price. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Toyota just TRD-ed their Camry, does that make the Camry now a competitor to a Flying Spur?

    Elon put in a hotter drivetrain in a Model S, big deal, still doesn't make it up market to go into luxury class. Unless they improve the materials and quality of the interior, it will still be in the premium class, and can't compete against the top end of the market.

     


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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Nick, when the Taycan was first revealed many stories never denied by Porsche indicated the car would sell below $100,000. As a result, they got 30,000 deposits. The depositors were misled. Fortunately in many States, depositors can get their money back. I suspect substantial number will.

    Now the question is, why would Porsche do the bait and switch? My guess is they recognized they could not compete in the Tesla segment. They then decided to significantly increase the price of the car and claim they are in a more luxurious market segment. 

    I believe they will eventually enter the Tesla segment but the car will be a whole lot different than the present Taycan.

    Finally, a short story. A very successful retail and restaurant seafood establishment in San diego is owned by a Porschephile. He had told me they he placed a deposit on the Taycan. Yesterday, when he saw I was in his store and came out to talk to me. He asked whether I was getting a Taycan and I told him no. It's too expensive. He said Porsche is nuts and he is getting his deposit back.I suspect there will be more stories like this.


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    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    I guess porsche want Taycan owners to pay for the next porsche (electric) hyper cars that they need help from Rimac to build. 

    The price difference between the Tesla Hyper car will be $200k versus Porsche hyper car $1M.....guessing

    ‘Guess it makes the Taycan ($200+) in my spec not look that bad versus a new P100D at $100k

    I feel a sucker for putting a deposit on a Taycan thinking it would be 20-30% more than the most expensive tesla. 

    I am a massive Porsche (911) fan but I have my limits. I lease my daily’s so I guess I will be getting another 2 Tesla’s. I can put the money I saved towards a Mclaren and my GT3.

    Love this video:

    https://youtu.be/8I-6_H0haAw

    i have never had my Tesla’s go into limp mode btw and I drive them hard. Well actually not that hard since they are so crazy fast. And track - I like using other people’s cars on the track.  

    Porsche are relying on 911 fanboys/girls pull to get people to buy their over priced sedans and suvs

    look at the new Macan turbo - versus the bmw x3m or amg glc 63. Macan doesn’t stand a chance. 

    I can get a bmw m5 or amg e63s for the price of a base panamera.

    thankfully the GT3s are not crazy priced. If there is a recession Porsche is going to have a v painful time  

     


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    Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    Nick, when the Taycan was first revealed many stories never denied by Porsche indicated the car would sell below $100,000. As a result, they got 30,000 deposits. The depositors were misled. Fortunately in many States, depositors can get their money back. I suspect substantial number will.

    Now the question is, why would Porsche do the bait and switch? My guess is they recognized they could not compete in the Tesla segment. They then decided to significantly increase the price of the car and claim they are in a more luxurious market segment. 

    I believe they will eventually enter the Tesla segment but the car will be a whole lot different than the present Taycan.

    Finally, a short story. A very successful retail and restaurant seafood establishment in San diego is owned by a Porschephile. He had told me they he placed a deposit on the Taycan. Yesterday, when he saw I was in his store and came out to talk to me. He asked whether I was getting a Taycan and I told him no. It's too expensive. He said Porsche is nuts and he is getting his deposit back.I suspect there will be more stories like this.

     

    Since the beginning of time, Porsche had never ever announced, or confirm Orr refute rumours about pricing for any of their cars beforehand, this is just people putting words in their mouth. Why would it be different this time around? Porsche never misled ANYONE, it was the Internet forums and car journalists that knew exactly nothing that misled the public and none of those are willing to owe up to it.

    Porsche the brand had always stood for quality and workmanship and with pricing to match if not exceed that standard, so why would the Taycan be different? Because some 2 bit 'journalist' that's still growing their pubic hair WISH it is the case? How absurd.

    From the beginning, like one the drawing board stage, the Taycan was never a competitor to the Tesla Model S. This is what the Internet forums WANTED it to be.  Up until now, Tesla have always been a one dimensional drag race machine with a not good enough interior. Can you think of a Porsche that's one dimoentional drag race machine? Every Porsche ever made have handling as their primary focus, Porsche had never made a car that's drag focused, some might have all world acceleration but that's just a product of how the parts fits together, it's not their primary focus. 

    Porsche sees they have a product gap. They have big and small SUVs, they have big and small sports cars, but they only have a big sedan. They needed a small sedan. They also needed to have a EV car. Hence the Taycan is born, a small EV sedan. Size wise it bridges the gap between the 911 and the Panamera and since it is the EV, it's the launching pad for them into the EV segment.

    Let me ask you this question, if Bentley, Rolls Royce  decide to do a small sedan, would you think for one second that that sedan will be close to a Camry pricing or a Ghost pricing? They know they made a good quality product and command that kind of pricing to match.

    This is the big big mistake of American media and internet personal, the BIG 3 had been bad for so long that they really want the next AMERICAN car company to be good, and Tesla has proven that they really are not bad. Tesla priced their Model S/X into the 6 digits simply because those EV components are expensive, if they price it any lower they would lose money, (not that they are actually making money but that's for another time), but that 6 digit car doesn't have a 6 digit worthy interior, so while look at price alone it would seems they are the 'premium' 'luxury' car, but the content inside certainly doesn't match that label. But the Americans doesn't care, they see the 6 digit pricing and proclaimed it is a 'luxury' car, a 'premium' car and designate the luxury segment as the competitors. 

    A 40k Mercedes CLA sedan has a better interior than any Teslas, not just the Model S, it also carries the luxury brand name too, can we apply the same logic and say the Model S is over price now? The logic has to go both ways and can't be a one way street. Heck look at the Nissan Leaf, a pure EV in the EV segment, it basically has the same quality interior as a Model S, so why don't people complaint about the high price of the Model S vs the Leaf? Actually should we start complaining about it now?

    Porsche does't need to move DOWN to Tesla's price bracket, VAG doesn't need them to, they got brands like VW and Audi standing by. Tesla's don't even have interiors matching VW, let alone Audi. My Golf R's interior is still miles ahead of any Tesla. How can Tesla hope to compete with a Porsche interior?

    Honestly, you don't have to look far, just look at me. I had my deposit for the Taycan for the longest time, long before anything was said and shown. Yet I am one of the first to cancel it. I was just talking to the Porsche Western Canada rep the other day and he asked me do I need a early car or a late car, I again told him I don't need one.

    Tesla just cut their pricing again not long ago, I priced another Model S, this time it comes to CAD$152k. a Model X comes to CAD$172k. Those prices includes $7,900 for thin air, literally it's a pre-payment for features that made or may not come during my ownership period. I priced out my Taycan Turbo S to be just around CAD$ 247k-$248k.

    For that extra $100k, I get the Porsche badge, next generation EV tech, legendary Porsche handling, and a rich, lush interior like this:

    Screenshot 2019-09-15 14.48.51.png

     

    Screenshot 2019-09-15 14.49.04.png

    Screenshot 2019-09-15 14.49.31.png

    vs the Camry quality of the CAD$150k Model S: (had to click the white interior as that's the most expensive option, the black interior is $2000 cheaper. 

    Screenshot 2019-09-15 14.51.14.png

    But as you all know, I picked the Audi e-Tron and this gorgeous high quality interior and saved myself another CAD$50k over the Tesla Model S.

    1568584710130IMG_0467.JPG

     

    Now if Audi can do such a great EV for CAD$100k, why is the Model S CAD$50k more and the Model X CAD$70k more? I think that's the more important question than complaining about the high price of the Taycan. Let's not forget the Audi is a more luxurious car, more premium car, more prestigious brand name also.

     


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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Another great post Nick!

    I don't understand why people keep complaining about the prices of Porsche, how much they are more expensive than Tesla, Mercedes, BMW etc.  But yet they are OK with the prices of Ferrari, Lambo, Bentley and Rolls Royce. (You've mentioned earlier)

    I only have one thing to say.  This is a free market.  Porsche can pick any prices they want, and customers can choose to buy or not buy.  Nobody really needs a Porsche anyway.


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    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S;  2019 Speedster (incoming)
     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Targa Tim:

    Another great post Nick!

    I don't understand why people keep complaining about the prices of Porsche, how much they are more expensive than Tesla, Mercedes, BMW etc.  But yet they are OK with the prices of Ferrari, Lambo, Bentley and Rolls Royce. (You've mentioned earlier)

    I only have one thing to say.  This is a free market.  Porsche can pick any prices they want, and customers can choose to buy or not buy.  Nobody really needs a Porsche anyway.

    True but in the case of the Taycan I am worried, if the prices will be accepted. I guess this is why Porsche put the Turbo and Turbo S first on the market, to test pricing as well but we all know that Taycan S, GTS or Taycan are already planned, so cheaper versions will be available at some point.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Nick, Porsche’s mantra since it’s inception has airways been performance/value. They are not Rolls Royce or Bentley. They don’t compete in that market segment. Today, they are a mass production auto company. 

    As you so adroit point out, they are shoe horning the Taycan between many product models. Essential this car is not necessary for their profitability. So why did they develop it? Because the future is in EV vehicles. That being the case, why put on the market a car priced well over $200,000 when your brand is performance/value?

    How is it that 30,000 people put down deposits on a car for the most part sight unseen? It’s because they were lead to believe that the car would be a competitor to Tesla and priced accordingly. Porsche gave every indication that was their target market. Otherwise there is no way in hell they would have received 30,000 deposits. 

    I have no doubt they will ratchet down the price once they get their act together but for now a lot of depositors were misled. We disagree on this one.


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    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Not sure if this is a known fact but especially for the Nordschleife testing, Tesla has imported a big Diesel generator, to provide electricity for the time of the testing/preparation period. Very environmentally friendly. 

    The reason is simple: If Tesla uses the German electricity net, they pay around 30 Euro Cents for one kWh. In the US, one kWh is up to 7 Euro Cents cheap. So the Diesel generator makes sense, from a financial point of view but from a PR point of view, this Diesel generator "stunt" certainly has raised some eye brows.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Carlos from Spain:

    Not to mention that it's a non production prototype which makes the whole exercise worthless. Prototypes are running in the ring all the times and nobody publishes those lap times for obvious reasons, ring lap times are only about production spec vehicles with factory options that clients can buy in a dealership.

    Yes, tell that to all this Silicon Valley freaks that just heard about the Ring for first time last week.... Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    I'm having a dejavú, about when Nissan arrived also to the Ring with their GTRs more than 10 years ago. Kind of same attitude


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    Nick, Porsche’s mantra since it’s inception has airways been performance/value. They are not Rolls Royce or Bentley. They don’t compete in that market segment. Today, they are a mass production auto company. 

    As you so adroit point out, they are shoe horning the Taycan between many product models. Essential this car is not necessary for their profitability. So why did they develop it? Because the future is in EV vehicles. That being the case, why put on the market a car priced well over $200,000 when your brand is performance/value?

    You know, that performance/value went out the window pretty much when the 991 first appeared on showroom floor...........

     

    How is it that 30,000 people put down deposits on a car for the most part sight unseen? It’s because they were lead to believe that the car would be a competitor to Tesla and priced accordingly. Porsche gave every indication that was their target market. Otherwise there is no way in hell they would have received 30,000 deposits. 

    I have no doubt they will ratchet down the price once they get their act together but for now a lot of depositors were misled. We disagree on this one.

     

    Porsche never indicated that their car is a competitor to a Tesla Model S ever. It is the Internet people and journalists that framed it that way. Apart from the fact that a Taycan and a Model S are both EV, both with 4 doors, that's about as similar as they will be. Using that logic, a Camry is really a competitor to a Flying Spur, both 4 doors, both with gasoline engines. 

    Porsche only ever said they will make a performance EV sedan that carries the Porsche tradition, which every knows it's about handling, consistent performance and doesn't break down under stress. But the word performance was twisted by Elon a long time ago describing the great one off acceleration of the Teslas, and Americans fell I love with the amazing drag time and equates that as 'performance'. Only the Americans define performance as that, rest of the world have a very different meaning though. But enough damage has been done, internet personal and American journalists dreamed up the match up between 2 'performance' sedans. The segment Porsche is aiming for is the luxury performance EV segment, a slot that is empty right now but Americans think it's currently occupied by Teslas. Rude awakening for them, Teslas isn't the top dog nor are they luxurious. 

    Seriously, outside of USA, no one think of the Taycan as a competitor to the Model S. Outside of here, I have friends in Europe, Asia, and even Africa, none of them think the Taycan is in the same segment as a Model S, and their local died doesn't portray them as such also. It's just the Americans. Weird Americans. 

    As for those 30,000 depositors, if they think they will get a cheap Porsche, they are so mistaken and lied to by the journalists and internet. Porsche were/are never cheap in the first place, what makes them think different? 

    Of course there will be cheaper Taycan's coming not market later, they will have lesser performance but still with the same high quality interior by Porsche, which will still command a premium over just about everyone else.

    Porsche the brand is still a dream brand for a lot of people, if Porsche can be easily acquired, then it will ceased to be a dream brand and turned into a commodity brand like Toyota, Honda, Buick, Chrysler, Tesla, etc.

    Check with kids, or even adults, do they have Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, posters up one their wall? Or do they have a poster of a Model X picking up kids from school? 

     


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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Whoopsy:
    Porsche the brand is still a dream brand for a lot of people, if Porsche can be easily acquired, then it will ceased to be a dream brand and turned into a commodity brand like Toyota, Honda, Buick, Chrysler, Tesla, etc.

    Check with kids, or even adults, do they have Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, posters up one their wall? Or do they have a poster of a Model X picking up kids from school? 

     

    Smiley The Taycan will be a success from a sales numbers point of view, no matter if the Turbo/Turbo S models will or will not sell well (models with less power are coming...) but the question is: Will the Taycan be profitable for Porsche and VW Group? This is a big question mark...still. With EV tech moving on quickly, I think that a today's Taycan Turbo S could already be seriously outdated in two years. Like you, I won't buy any EV (I don't want to anyway but I guess at some point in the future, I won't have a choice) for now, only lease one, especially as long as EV tech isn't somewhat "predictable" and maybe even becoming a certain standard at some point. This could take years, maybe even decades.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)



    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    20sec faster than the Taycan would be a surprise. Where is my popcorn ?


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    neunelf:

    https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/elektroauto/tesla-model-s-vs-porsche-taycan-nordschleife-nuerburgring-rekord-rundenzeit-elektroauto/

    I have no doubt that the Tesla S will beat the Taycan and it will be a publicity stunt for Elon Musk, a stunt Porsche is dumb enough to "allow" because they think people are interested in details (Tesla S prototype vs. Taycan Turbo S standard production version). Porsche will be the publicity loser here because people are not interested in details, they are interested in headlines.

    Does it matter? I don't know. Some people who put a deposit down for a Taycan may think twice before actually getting a Taycan, especially since next year, the Tesla S tech with "Plaid" mode is rumored to be available on a regular standard production car.

    Those who stick with the Taycan may or may not care about the Tesla S record but for future orders, Porsche will certainly see an impact here and, like it or not, the Taycan will be ridiculed on YouTube and other social media, this is for sure.

    Porsche doesn't seem to understand how social media works. Details don't matter, facts don't matter, nothing matters but headlines, clickbait. They need to adapt fast. The Taycan is no GT model doing all that track magic, it is no GT traditional model everyone seems to love, the Taycan is brand new and once the reputation is harmed...oh well. Smiley

    My advice to Porsche: Prepare a Taycan Turbo S with all the track goodies, incl. Trofeo R or whatever tires, crank up the EV engine to the max (1000 hp Smiley, whatever is possible), install a track worthy chassis, rip out all the entertainment stuff, use a smaller battery (weight) and let Lars Kern do his magic. This week, before Tesla announces their own record. Difficult to do? Oh well...at least they should try.

    Headline: Taycan does it again, achieves new Nordschleife record at 7:05 min. I want to see Tesla beating that. Smiley 

    Not going to happen of course, there is no Elon Musk at Porsche, there is no Piech at Porsche anymore and nobody who could possibly pull off such a mission in such a short time. Sad.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    It's on Cup 2 R's, a tire on the verge of absurd on a GT3 RS, let alone on an electric sedan. mail


    --

    1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Porker:

    It's on Cup 2 R's, a tire on the verge of absurd on a GT3 RS, let alone on an electric sedan. mail

    Most people don't even know what a Cup 2 tire is, let alone a Cup 2 R. Smiley

    Numbers count, not details. Sad but true. We all know that Tesla is cheating but the majority of people will only see the headline and Elon Musk knows that. He needs the headline in social media, he needs Porsche to be ridiculed for losing against Tesla. It is a pretty good marketing stunt for Tesla and Musk and nobody will really care about details. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


     
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