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    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    RC:

    This is true but the only problem is: the 991 comes next year and the 991 Turbo shouldn't be more than 12 months behind, maybe even less.

     

     

    REALLY!?!?

    so you whant to tell 991 Turbo will come in 2012 solar year?

    if is right is a GREAT news for me!!SmileySmileySmiley

     

     

     


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    nice light blue color on the coupe.


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS, January build;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe #13;  2006 BMW 530xi


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    ..a little confusing for me:

    The S get the maximum power of 530 hp @ 6.250 rpm to 6.750 rpm.
    The normal turbo get its power 500 hp @ 6.000 rpm.
    How much power the "S" will have @ 6.000 rpm?
    Like the normal turbo  or  less?
    And what about other, lower revs?

    Anybody have a clue?


    neu-1.jpg


     


    --
    Kind regards, Conny 
    More pics: http://www.dayboox.com/group/Connys%20Galerie
    Porsche 997 Turbo * Porsche Cayenne GTS * BMW X5M
     

    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    This is one sweet ride! probably the best money can buy right now! I feel for ppl who have the 997.2 on order with full options and a steeper price tag. The Turbo S will be a more unique car as well. My car would be in meteor grey and with Turbo II wheels even though they are cheaper


    --
    997C2S Black/Black - PSE, Adaptives, PCCB, -20mm/LSD, Short-shifter, SportChrono, Nav, BOSE, etc.

    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

     

    this only proves that the difference is only in DME tuning

    the boost is increased in high revs. also overboost function became regular one and max torque equals to 700 nm


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    Great Package from Porsche. Yet again it will retire the 997 series in style! I think the price when considering the standard options is always very competitive for the Turbo S series because Porsche is simply cleaning out their parts shelves! It's brilliant efficiency indeed.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
    _____________________________________________________________________
    1984 BMW 323i 5spd 2.3L 141 hp (105 kW) More door. Black on black (parting out) 
    1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
    1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    Well, it seems that the real Mk2 power output should have been 530... quite reasonable taking into account the 200cc increase + DFI.

    I would be really pissed if I had bought a brand new Mk2 a few months ago...


    --

    997 GT3 RS


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    Conny997:

    ..a little confusing for me:

    The S get the maximum power of 530 hp @ 6.250 rpm to 6.750 rpm.
    The normal turbo get its power 500 hp @ 6.000 rpm.
    How much power the "S" will have @ 6.000 rpm?
    Like the normal turbo  or  less?
    And what about other, lower revs?

    Anybody have a clue?


    neu-1.jpg


     


    well i still didnt saw the graphic of the TURBO S... but...

    probably the turbo  put this power at 6000 and then keep it a little under that...

     

    and the TURBO S must be putting the same 500hp(aprox) at 6000rpm and after that keeping the same boost it will offer the 30hp MORE...

     

    THE TURBO  always that you over rev 6000RPM it pulls like it was stronger and stronger till the CUT of REVS.... the turbo S  must  have the same sensation BUT STRONGER, MORE FEEL!  this difference must be the 30hp and i can warranty this small difference in 2 or 3 geras push the car with a nice difference...

     

    i dont know if i could explain with my poor english but ok! Smiley

     

    Smiley


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    Damn you RC, can't you keep quite about these things? 

    I put a hold on my X6M order because of the LCI, now this, I might have to cancel that and take up the Turbo S instead.


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

     If I calculated correctly, the S Cab is 154,000 euro excluding VAT. In the US that would be $215,000. Who in their right mind would pay that much for a car that looks like a mass produced model that cost less than $100,000 (the 997 Cab)? Also, the depreciation on the S will be biblical considering that the 991 will be out in about a year. The prior Turbo S took huge depreciation hits.

    In my opinion, this is a bad deal for the Porsche buyer. As soon as they drive the car off the showroom floor they probably have already lost 10%.


    --

     


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    Well, it's pointless to just convert Euro prices into $. The Turbo is way cheaper in the US. Based on the current ratio the Turbo S Cab will cost round about $165.000.

     

     


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    $165,000 would be more palatable. Smiley

    BTW, why is it substantially cheaper in the US? Smiley


    --

     


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    Guys,

    Was this announcement Porsche's surprise we were supposed to hear ?


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    nberry:

    $165,000 would be more palatable. Smiley

    BTW, why is it substantially cheaper in the US? Smiley

    Nick - we in the US generally pay fewer dollars than the Germans pay Euros - we get a great deal Smiley


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    Ron (Houston):

    Guys,

    Was this announcement Porsche's surprise we were supposed to hear ?

     

    Not what i was hoping for....


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
    _____________________________________________________________________
    1984 BMW 323i 5spd 2.3L 141 hp (105 kW) More door. Black on black (parting out) 
    1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
    1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    nberry:

    $165,000 would be more palatable. Smiley

    BTW, why is it substantially cheaper in the US? Smiley

     

    US has the cheapest car prices, PCNA would go bankrupt if they set prices inline with Europe or the rest of the world. Heck, even if PCNA set their price NEAR Canadian price no one would buy them.

    165k is what I am paying for a base model Turbo Coupe with zero options.


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    Atzporsche:
    Ron (Houston):

    Guys,

    Was this announcement Porsche's surprise we were supposed to hear ?

     

    Not what i was hoping for....


    According to RC's previous post on the subject, NO.

    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    nberry:

    $165,000 would be more palatable. Smiley

    BTW, why is it substantially cheaper in the US? Smiley


    Nick sometimes you surprise me. Go and convert US Ferraries prices into EUROs and see how little you pay. Why - because the dollar has lost a lot of value over time and you guys dont want to pay more money for your cars...


    --
    Off enjoying my car...

    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    Whoopsy:

    Damn you RC, can't you keep quite about these things? 

    I put a hold on my X6M order because of the LCI, now this, I might have to cancel that and take up the Turbo S instead.

     

    Why did you put a hold on your X6 M order ? The X6 M stays the same.

    I also don't get the X6 M vs. Turbo S thing, the X6 M is a SUV/SAV, the Turbo S a sportscar. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    TEE:
    nberry:

    $165,000 would be more palatable. 

    BTW, why is it substantially cheaper in the US? 


    Nick sometimes you surprise me. Go and convert US Ferraries prices into EUROs and see how little you pay. Why - because the dollar has lost a lot of value over time and you guys dont want to pay more money for your cars...

     

    Nick, you DO know the difference between US and European price levels so I don´t understand your above given comment... Smiley


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    Damn you RC, can't you keep quite about these things? 

    I put a hold on my X6M order because of the LCI, now this, I might have to cancel that and take up the Turbo S instead.

     

    Why did you put a hold on your X6 M order ? The X6 M stays the same.

    I also don't get the X6 M vs. Turbo S thing, the X6 M is a SUV/SAV, the Turbo S a sportscar. Smiley


    +1


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    initial dynamometer testing in the US shows the 997.2 motor generating approx 35-40 more horsepower than a stock 997.1 turbo, which suggests the 500hp rating is very conservative on the new car. Adding .2 bar boost should yield another 30hp on top of that.


    --

    track vid

    0-300kph

    chasing a 997GT2

     

     


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    I have known there is a difference in price which I thought most of which was attributed to the VAT. I had no idea that the BASE price difference was over 25%.  Smiley


    --

     


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    Yes Nick, especially Porsche/Merc/BMW. Ferrari has less of that effect since the last rounds of hefty price increase in the US...

    What you have to understand is how many more of the luxury cars Porsche sells in the US also. To afford such a car in europe, because of taxes on the high upper class are much less progressive, you need to make a lot of dough which limits the potential pool of buyers. In the US, that pool is much larger, so you get a "volume discount" so to speak.

     

    Check out the price of a Hummer or Corvette in Europe, you will fall off your chair!


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    eclou:

    initial dynamometer testing in the US shows the 997.2 motor generating approx 35-40 more horsepower than a stock 997.1 turbo, which suggests the 500hp rating is very conservative on the new car. Adding .2 bar boost should yield another 30hp on top of that.


    Initial dyno tests in europe actually show that 997.2tt generates around 515hp+ while the latest 997.1 especially 2009 models where over 500hp (mine was as well, an 07). This is comparing runs of new cars on same dyno so should be accurate. The good thing about the new engine is that it makes power all the way to 6,500+ rpm. Torque was around 680nm but that was the sport button off. Also cats again are very restrictive while the exhaust and intake are much better (gt2 design). Am being told ecu+cats should get 560-570hp.

    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    I remain puzzled. I assume the cost to build the car is the same whether it is sold in Europe or ROW. If anything, the added cost for shipping would favor a cheaper price for Europe.

    Also, though it may be correctSmiley, your explanation is counterintuitive. Since Europeans have less to spend (for whatever reason), it would make more sense for Porsche to price the car the same as the US just to sell more cars there. Additionally, aware of the onerous VAT tax, Porsche should reduce the price to make the over cost of the car more attractive to European buyers.  What am I missing?Smiley


    --

     


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    nberry:

    I remain puzzled. I assume the cost to build the car is the same whether it is sold in Europe or ROW. If anything, the added cost for shipping would favor a cheaper price for Europe.

    Also, though it may be correctSmiley, your explanation is counterintuitive. Since Europeans have less to spend (for whatever reason), it would make more sense for Porsche to price the car the same as the US just to sell more cars there. Additionally, aware of the onerous VAT tax, Porsche should reduce the price to make the over cost of the car more attractive to European buyers.  What am I missing?Smiley

     

    Automobile prices are far lower in the US than in Europe. Strange but true.

    My explanation: The majority of US buyers is often not interested that much in buying high-end quality (same applies to houses, bathroom equipment, etc.). They tend to go for a compromise between price and quality ("good enough") - forcing OEMs to sell premium cars at rather low prices. Also, you cannot use high-performance sportscars in the US as you can use them in Europe (Germany in particular). Thus, why pay as much as a European buyer might be willing to pay?

    To date I did not find any other explanations for the strange price patterns in the car sector Smiley Fact is: European buyers subsidize US buyers.

    P.S.: Don't think that European markets have less wealthy buyers than the US


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    MKSGR:

    My explanation: The majority of US buyers is often not interested that much in buying high-end quality (same applies to houses, bathroom equipment, etc.).

     

    Porsche would certainly charge more money if they´d be able to. Market situation and customer behaviour in the US are much different than Europe. Ferrari does have the chance to be much more restrictive with sales numbers and rebates in the US, therefore experiences less loss at resale and can pursue to fill the exclusive niche. Porsche in the US might not be as common as a Corvette or Nissan GT-R but far from the exclusivity of Ferrari or Lamborghini. That supports your assumption, as much as it validates Ferraris sales strategy in the US (which shouldn´t work in Europe, by the way).


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    On the U.S./Europe price differential, I guess I have always assumed there are two reasons:

    1.  There is no VAT in the U.S., which accounts for a 19% premium in Germany.  That alone would add over $26000 minimum to the cost of a base FL TT.  But in the U.S. there are also local taxes and weight penalties (on a Cayenne) that add at least 10% to the cost after purchase.

    2.  The U.S. is a larger market than Europe, so maybe larger volume sold makes up for lower unit price.

    These are just guesses about a fascinating topic, so I look forward to more posts.

     

    P.S. I disagree about U.S. buyers not being interested in high end quality.  An inaccurate generalization, at the very least....

     


    Re: New 997 Turbo S and Turbo S Cabriolet (2010)

    Wonderbar:

     

    P.S. I disagree about U.S. buyers not being interested in high end quality.  An inaccurate generalization, at the very least....

     

    True in general. But sometimes people in the US also like "flashy" vs "quality" (crying example: the Hummer, horrible on so many levels yet fun to watch and own). But this has also to do with the US mentality that there is no need to hide under a rock if you made some cash or that you enjoy cars regardless of how much gas they use SmileySmiley

     

    PS: US states have a sales tax not only on new cars but also on USED cars in many states...

    Also the USD is currently undervalued by about 20% due to the shift of central banks reserves to euro in the past few years and due to the future US deficit. It will correct itself eventually (maybe when the "big spenders" will be out of office in three years Smiley).


     
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