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    Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    (wow...I didn't realise I ranted on for so long! I guess I just wanted Porsche to understand why we went with the AMV8, and maybe they can address some of the points I have made below....Surely I am not the only one that feels this way about Porsche....???)

    My dad and I Just ordered an AMV8.

    It has been specified as follows:
    - Tungsten Silver (Exterior Paint)
    - Phantom Grey (Leather Interior/Carpet)
    - Tailor's Grey (Headliner)
    - Alloy (Facia)
    - Flint (Seat Belts)

    Options include:
    - 19" Wheels
    - Red Callipers
    - Chrome Grill
    - Xenon (HID) Headlights
    - Cruise Control
    - Battery Conditioner

    Before the purchase I test drove the Porsche Cayman, 997 and 997 S.

    The main reasons we decided on the AMV8 were (in no particular order):
    - Exclusivity
    - Looks
    - Engine
    - Interior
    - Dynamics

    Exclusivity:
    AM are only making 3,000 AMV8s a year versus approx 30,000 911s. Older Porsches have in the past held their resale value quite high. I don't expect this to happen to the 996 and 997 Porsches in the future. There are lots of examples of this in the Porsche range (eg 993 GT2 v 996 GT2). If you have lots of money and don't care about depreciation...then that is fine. But for most of us that isn't the case. I think this will be a big problem for Porsche in the future, when customers who have been burnt by huge depreciation, will avoid the Porsche brand.

    Also...now that there are so many Porsche's on the roads...the non-Porsche-enthusiast types think they are all 'just Porsche's'. I drove the AMV8 through one of the richest parts of Sydney (Vaucluse), where people don't even blink an eye to Porsches, and people were straining to see:
    1. What was making that awesome V8 sound (I'll talk about this more later)
    2. What sort of great looking is it!
    After I had driven by they were still straining their necks to look at the AMV8!!! Contrast that with the 3 Porsche's I tested, hardly anyone even glanced at it! (Note: except for the female police officer that pulled me over for a random breath test! She was very impressed with the standard 997). So this can be a plus or minus depending on what you want. But for us, exclusivity in terms of depreciation was a key consideration.

    Looks:
    The AMV8 just blows away the 911 and Cayman. It is just downright sexy. And because of the exclusivity, you don't see them very often, and thus don't tire of looking at it!

    Looks are very subjective. However, 9 out of 10 people generally say they like the looks and design of the AMV8. With the Porsche's I don't think the 911 design is cutting edge enough now in 2006 (except for maybe the 997GT3RS). I love the 993, but come on guys (I'm talking to Porsche in Stuttgart), its been 10 years, and the 997 looks so similar to the 993! I want something new from Porsche, and don't want to be given a product (eg Cayman) that is engineered to go slower than their flagship model (911). I actually enjoyed driving the Cayman, but kept feeling like it needed more power and that it was engineered to go slower than the 911. I feel strongly that Porsche needs to break free. I also don't understand why the 911 has to be a rear engine (I'll talk about dynamics later). Why can't the 911 be a mid-rear? Rear engine is great for the track (like in my formula ford days), but on the road....mid-rear or front-mid engine layout is way better!

    Why not make the racier/track versions of the 911 rear-engined, and the other road going versions mid-rear????

    Engine:
    Yes I know...the 997 S engine pulls harder etc. but on the road, you can hardly tell the difference. Plus I love V8s. Maybe it is an Australian thing (see www.v8supercars.com.au ) but a V8 has a way better sound than a 6!

    I also strongly believe, that the AMV8's V8 is the best road-going engine/exhaust sound EVER - period!!!!! I've heard heaps of Lambos etc.....and the AMV8 kills them!

    Interior:
    When I got into the Porsche....I immediately felt disappointed. It all just felt like plastic and like it was going to break! When I got into the AMV8, it felt like a piece of fine jewellery! Plus most things are standard on the AMV8. The Porsche options list is huge....CRAZY HUGE....and expensive!

    Dynamics:
    Now, I have a bit of experience of rear-engined cars on the track (eg Formula Ford). And on the track, this is awesome! With the weight over the back you get better grip out of corners. And under braking the weight over the back keeps the car level and thus brakes better. Now we all know the golden 911 rule...thou shall not lift. If you do, you risk the rear spinning around. And on the track this is fine because you rarely would have to lift, and if you do, it is a relatively safe environment. However, on the road, there ARE times you have to lift, and the potential consequences if you do are a lot more severe than on the track. I'll give you an example that happened to me about 3 months ago. I was driving along the Great Ocean Road (http://www.greatoceanrd.org.au/ ) to my beach house. I know this road back to front and have been driving it for 10 years. I was going very fast out of a bend and came suddenly upon a car that was doing about 4 times less in speed (excuse me for not being precise with my speeds, but the Police here are very strict and the fines very large!) Anyway, to cut a short story even shorter, I HAD to lift and brake suddenly. Had I been in a rear-engined 911, it WOULD have spun. I know the 997 is programmed to limit this, but in an emergency situation sheer physics will always win!

    When I got into the AMV8, and put it on the limits etc., it just felt so natural and inspiring on the road. It didn't feel like it was going to bite me. It was very progressive. Now I have never driven a front-mid on the track, however, this car will rarely be tracked (that's what race cars are for!) so our decision was based on what was best for the road.


    Conclusion:
    So based on the above we decided on the AMV8. It arrives in April 2007 and I can't wait!

    I'll be very interested to hear what everyone thinks of my views? However, don't get me wrong, I am not knocking Porsche, just some of their decisions that don't meet my personal needs.

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Here is a pic of the demonstrator. It is Tungsten Silver as well.

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    OK. I mainly understand your reasons for V8 Vantage.
    However, here are few questions:
    -Did you like gearbox in V8 Vantage? In car that I drove it was simply said way too stiff and heavy IMHO.
    -Sound... Very subjective thing IMO. For me F430 sounds way better then V8 Vantage, Gallardo also. But, this is as I said SUBJECTIVE thing.
    -Drive dynamics... Really better then 997 Carrera S(-20mm/LSD)? Maybe you do not like rear engine layout? But, they are again IMHO in the same class regarding drive dynamics. BTW, all mid-engine sportscars like F430, Gallardo or forthcoming Audi R8 are simply way better in drive dynamics then V8 Vantage or any front(or mid-front) engine car IMHO.
    -Looks... Here I agree with you, V8 Vantage simply is looking stunning. Quite similar to DB9 also... But, more exciting in looks then 997.

    Any way, congrats on yoour choice! Enjoy it!

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    OK. I mainly understand your reasons for V8 Vantage.
    However, here are few questions:
    -Did you like gearbox in V8 Vantage? In car that I drove it was simply said way too stiff and heavy IMHO.
    -Sound... Very subjective thing IMO. For me F430 sounds way better then V8 Vantage, Gallardo also. But, this is as I said SUBJECTIVE thing.
    -Drive dynamics... Really better then 997 Carrera S(-20mm/LSD)? Maybe you do not like rear engine layout? But, they are again IMHO in the same class regarding drive dynamics. BTW, all mid-engine sportscars like F430, Gallardo or forthcoming Audi R8 are simply way better in drive dynamics then V8 Vantage or any front(or mid-front) engine car IMHO.
    -Looks... Here I agree with you, V8 Vantage simply is looking stunning. Quite similar to DB9 also... But, more exciting in looks then 997.

    Any way, congrats on yoour choice! Enjoy it!



    Thanks KresoF1

    1. Gearbox - it was stiff, but i actually liked it. I guess it is just a personal thing.
    2. Sound - agree, subjective....but awsome IMHO!!
    3. Engine layout - Agree...would love a F430 etc. but they are just currently out of reach. If Porsche made a mid-engine 911, it would have made the choice alot harder. Don't get me wrong tho....i like rear-engine on the track....but for a road car....mid-rear or front-mid is the way to go IMHO.
    4. Looks...I agree!!!

    Thanks again KresoF1

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Quote:
    jcparki said:
    I HAD to lift and brake suddenly. Had I been in a rear-engined 911, it WOULD have spun. I know the 997 is programmed to limit this, but in an emergency situation sheer physics will always win!

    When I got into the AMV8, and put it on the limits etc., it just felt so natural and inspiring on the road. It didn't feel like it was going to bite me. It was very progressive. Now I have never driven a front-mid on the track, however, this car will rarely be tracked (that's what race cars are for!) so our decision was based on what was best for the road.





    If you are sure a rear-engined car would have spun, would not a rear mid-engine car also have spun in the situation described?

    Please explain why you think the mid-engined Cayman S' driving dynamics are also inferior to the AMV8.

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    IMHO, you don't owe anyone an explanation why you choose an Aston Martin over a Porsche.

    You only live once and "there's no point in living if you can't feel alive"

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Great choice, you won't regret it .

    I have now seen around 3 AMV8 out in the streets of Houston and they are breath taking, looks and sounds awesome.

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Congrats That is one gorgeous car! There is one on ebay with blue interior that is just stunning!!! I think the 997 is more of a drivers car, but the AMV8 is one of the best looking autos IMHO

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

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    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    The titanium with blue V8 pictured is at Park Place Bentley in Dallas. The Aston Martin Dallas dealership is literally across the street from the Bentley one which is kind of funny. The asking price for that particular car is around MSRP plus sales tax and the car only has 400 miles on it. I wonder if the owner decided the car wasn't for him or if he was planning on trying to make some quick cash from the beginning.

    The blue interior doesn't do much for me.

    John

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    It might be to light blue for me too.

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    -Drive dynamics... Really better then 997 Carrera S(-20mm/LSD)?



    Can anyone who has driven both comment on the harshness (or otherwise) of the ride on the Vantage vs. the -20mm Carrera S ?
    I remember when EVO did their initial A/B comparison between the two they were cited as similar - which is weird considering how many people think the 911 with sports suspension is harsh...

    Anyway - enjoy your Vantage, they are the best looking new cars out there!

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Quote:
    MAVERICK said:
    Quote:
    jcparki said:
    I HAD to lift and brake suddenly. Had I been in a rear-engined 911, it WOULD have spun. I know the 997 is programmed to limit this, but in an emergency situation sheer physics will always win!

    When I got into the AMV8, and put it on the limits etc., it just felt so natural and inspiring on the road. It didn't feel like it was going to bite me. It was very progressive. Now I have never driven a front-mid on the track, however, this car will rarely be tracked (that's what race cars are for!) so our decision was based on what was best for the road.





    If you are sure a rear-engined car would have spun, would not a rear mid-engine car also have spun in the situation described?

    Please explain why you think the mid-engined Cayman S' driving dynamics are also inferior to the AMV8.



    Hi Maverick

    I'm not sure if a mid-rear would have spun in that situation. I have never driven a mid-rear to the limit. However, I think my point was that a rear-engine is more likely to spin on lift off than a mid-rear. What I do know is that a front-mid would get a little unsettled....but would probably not spin.

    As for your second point....you are right....i didn't really cover it too well. Basically, I did like the Cayman's dynamics (although i didn't get to test at the limits...unlike the 911 and the AMV8). However, I felt the Cayman had been engineered to be a lessor tool than the 911. And I didn't want to buy something that had been detuned to that extent.

    I hope that answers your questions.

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Quote:
    shin said:
    IMHO, you don't owe anyone an explanation why you choose an Aston Martin over a Porsche.

    You only live once and "there's no point in living if you can't feel alive"



    Thanks Shin

    I just wanted Porsche to understand why I went down the AMV8 option instead of a Porsche. I know they read forums like this. Hopefully, if enough people start to express their views why they are are choosing another brand over Porsche, they can address some of these issues. I really think exclusivity is going to be a major issue for Porsche in the future.

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Quote:
    hellgelb said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    -Drive dynamics... Really better then 997 Carrera S(-20mm/LSD)?



    Can anyone who has driven both comment on the harshness (or otherwise) of the ride on the Vantage vs. the -20mm Carrera S ?
    I remember when EVO did their initial A/B comparison between the two they were cited as similar - which is weird considering how many people think the 911 with sports suspension is harsh...

    Anyway - enjoy your Vantage, they are the best looking new cars out there!



    Hi hellgelb

    I have tested both and yes they are both reasonbly harsh (actually...i would say firm)...however it depends where you are coming from. If you have grown up on a healthy diet of sports cars and track cars, it is perfect. If you have come from cars that are much softer, it will feel harsh...

    For my purposes, it was exactly what I was looking for!

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Quote:
    jcparki said:
    I hope that answers your questions.



    Yes, thank you. I wish you many miles and smiles with your new car.

    After driving the car a year or so, please post a photo of your enlarged shift arm. Even Popeye might be tempted to jump ship for an AMV8.

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Quote:
    jcparki said:I'm not sure if a mid-rear would have spun in that situation. I have never driven a mid-rear to the limit. However, I think my point was that a rear-engine is more likely to spin on lift off than a mid-rear. What I do know is that a front-mid would get a little unsettled....but would probably not spin.



    I'm not real sure about that.

    The propensity to spin can be more related to low polar moment of inertia. A rear engined car normally has a higher PMoI because its weight is distributed further away from the center of rotation, making it less likely to spin quickly. It can still spin, but the transition is slower and this gives the driver more time to initiate corrective action.

    All the 911s that I've driven were less likely to snap spin than 914s and my Carrera GT because of the difference in PMoI. However, if one is travelling down hill in a 911, once the car gets pretty much sideways, the heavy rear weight bias tends to keep it sideways or let it go backwards-first. I found this out the hard way

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    jcparki said:I'm not sure if a mid-rear would have spun in that situation. I have never driven a mid-rear to the limit. However, I think my point was that a rear-engine is more likely to spin on lift off than a mid-rear. What I do know is that a front-mid would get a little unsettled....but would probably not spin.



    I'm not real sure about that.

    The propensity to spin can be more related to low polar moment of inertia. A rear engined car normally has a higher PMoI because its weight is distributed further away from the center of rotation, making it less likely to spin quickly. It can still spin, but the transition is slower and this gives the driver more time to initiate corrective action.

    All the 911s that I've driven were less likely to snap spin than 914s and my Carrera GT because of the difference in PMoI. However, if one is travelling down hill in a 911, once the car gets pretty much sideways, the heavy rear weight bias tends to keep it sideways or let it go backwards-first. I found this out the hard way



    Hi Mike
    I think most of what you have said is true. However, if the mid-rear engine is more likely to spin b/c of its low polar moment of inertia, then the opposite is also true....ie you should be able to correct it quicker thus it is more agile.

    As I said tho...i havn't experienced the mid-rear engine car at the limits...so I am just relying on my Statics 101 from my engineering days at uni!

    I guess the point I was trying to get across, was that on the road....the front-mid layout felt better. It was the first front-mid I have ever driven and I really liked it. But I can understand why some people like the challenge of the rear-engine....i just feel that when you are pushing it on the roads...and all the uncertainty....it can bite you hard as you have descibed! I hope you were ok.

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Have you tried the Maserati Coupe or Gran Sport? Now that V8 has a wail.
    I had a coupe for 3 years before getting the new M5. Semiautomatic gear boxes are the wave of the future. I considerred the AMV8 but my friend's AMV8 was in the shop 6 times in 7 months for silly things. Not something I want to deal with. My Maserati while not spotless spent 2 weeks in the shop over 3 years.
    I do have to comment about your hypothetical incident regarding the lifting in the corner. Not to sound preachy, but the street roads is not a place where you test any car's 9/10ths abilities, just too dangerous. And really unless you are at 9/10ths of the 997, drastic lift throttle oversteer is a thing of the past as Porsche has cleaned up the tail happiness to very high limits. I drove my 997s on the Ring and found at 9/10ths+, it reminds you of the weight at the back and throttle inputs had better be precise.
    That said, the AMV8 is an awesome car so enjoy it but be careful out there.

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Quote:
    jcparki said:However, if the mid-rear engine is more likely to spin b/c of its low polar moment of inertia, then the opposite is also true....ie you should be able to correct it quicker thus it is more agile.



    Speeding up the response of the car does nothing for speeding up the reactions of the driver The car just gets away from the driver more quickly.

    There's an old racers' expression that goes along with this concept, "I got behind in my steering."

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Congrats and welcome to the Vantage club. However, the party will soon be over. As an owner of one I can't say that as the miles have piled on I continue to appreciate the car. It's like taking the most popular girl in school to the prom only to find out she ain't gonna put out.

    You will, for many years to come still have the type of exclusivity you obviously desire as it is a new car. There is nothing Porsche can do about the 911 to combat this. There are very strong rumors about the return of the 928 in the form of a two door version of the upcoming Panamera. This is scheduled for 2010. Probably a V8 from the Porsche Cayenne and should look similiar to the Vantage or perhaps more like the DB9 and priced somewhere in between.

    I have decided to sell my Vantage and am undecided between the 911 or the new XKR.

    Exclusivity is not a major concern as I understand why the 911 is a succesful brand and why it continues to do well. 30,000 units a year has done nothing to diminish the or increase the depreciation of the car as the world continues to create ever more affluent people to gobble them up.

    Porsche is looking at blogs, but Aston Martin is the one that wanted to market to Porsche owners, not the other way around!

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Congrats on your future car ! Hope you have a lot of fun with it.
    I had one on order for a long time but after I test drove it I canceled mine and ordered a 911 turbo.
    Gearchange was not acceptable for me.

    I hope you know that the Vantage was 'detuned'(to use your word) in the same way to avoid conflict with the DB9 as the Cayman was for the 911.

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    When the time comes, you'll be VERY disappointed with the AM's depreciation. They are ALL rare (especially the Vanquish), but they lose their value rapidly. A used Vanquish or DB9 can be had for less than 1/2 of original cost; even only a few years old and low mileage. 'Don't know why this is; the AM's are truly fabulous cars.

    As for sound, have you ever heard a Vanquish S ?? THAT, my friend, is the most awesome sound I've ever heard. Period.

    Enjoy your new car when it arrives next April.

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    yea! congrats you got a baby Aston! which is made from GAY DON! hahah

    welldone to ford sold another car with aston cover !

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche *DELETED*

    Post deleted by rhino

    Re: Ordered an AMV8 over a Porsche

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    What a Hater... If you think the Auston is made from Gay Don, who make your Audi TT a enema lover?



    FWIW, Bazza was "enjoying" the fact that Aston Martin's new factory is based at a town called Gaydon.

     
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