Crown

Board: Porsche Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Let's put is this way, if the Panamera is considered a sportier then so is the Macan, to me they drive the same...


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    ALDO:
    RC:
    ALDO:
    spudgun:

    I don't think we can call the Mission E a sportscar, it will weigh more than the moon.

    Porsche calls a Cayenne a SPORTSCAR Smiley

     

    They do? Smiley

    The last time I have watched some marketing videos they said something like a "real sportscar" - in any case they claim much more sportscar than it is in either Cayenne, Macan or Panamera.

    Well, they usually refer to the Cayenne and Macan as SUVs, even in German, and when wanting to distinguish between the SUVs and the Panamera on the one side and the 911s and Boxster/Cayman on the other, the latter group are referred to as the "Sportwagen". 


    --

    fritz


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    RC:
    ALDO:
    spudgun:

    I don't think we can call the Mission E a sportscar, it will weigh more than the moon.

    Porsche calls a Cayenne a SPORTSCAR Smiley

     

    They do? Smiley

    Yep so everything is a sportscar from now on.


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Germany might be home to the automobile but it seems vehicles powered by petrol and diesel engines won't be welcome in the country after 2050.

    As Car & Driver points out, Germany is a member of the zero-emission vehicle (ZEV) alliance which used the United Nations Conference on Climate Change (COP21) to announce a ban on conventionally powered vehicles by 2050.  Other countries who are members of the ZEV alliance would also comply with the decision including the Netherlands, Norway and the United Kingdom.

    Several U.S. states have also gotten in on the action including California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, and Vermont.

    The aim of the proposal is to cut global vehicle emissions by up to 40 percent and help to put a stop to climate change. 

    A lot can happen in the course of 35 years but a number of automakers are already bracing for a greener future.  Toyota is the most notable example as the company recently announced plans to virtually eliminate conventionally powered vehicles from its lineup as part of the Environmental Challenge 2050 plan.  Under the initiative, Toyota will focus on the development of hybrid, plug-in hybrid, electric, and fuel-cell vehicles.

    Source: Car & Driver


    --

    AM


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Do you guys understand the German term Planwirtschaft (planned economy)? It was an essential part of communism and probably one of the major reasons why communism actually failed.  

    2050? Good joke. In 2050, we may actually have nuclear fusion engines in our cars or we may not have cars at all anymore because some aliens visited us and gifted us with teleportation technology (or they just killed us all ).

    I love it when governments and organizations make plans, plans which are (almost) always doomed to fail.

    How can we plan for 2050? Impossible, especially since the technology is advancing and in ten years, who knows what kind of technology will be available...or not.

    Which brings me back to another German term used a lot: Willensbekundung (declaration of intent). I think that 2050 date is a declaration of intent, nothing more and nothing less.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    RC:

    Do you guys understand the German term Planwirtschaft (planned economy)? It was an essential part of communism and probably one of the major reasons why communism actually failed.  

    2050? Good joke. In 2050, we may actually have nuclear fusion engines in our cars or we may not have cars at all anymore because some aliens visited us and gifted us with teleportation technology (or they just killed us all ).

    I love it when governments and organizations make plans, plans which are (almost) always doomed to fail.

    How can we plan for 2050? Impossible, especially since the technology is advancing and in ten years, who knows what kind of technology will be available...or not.

    Which brings me back to another German term used a lot: Willensbekundung (declaration of intent). I think that 2050 date is a declaration of intent, nothing more and nothing less.

    You are reading too much into the journalist's loose usage of the word "plan". I would suggest that the Toyota source document was in fact just a discussion of possible scenarios for 2050, and that the company is not in any way committing real resources to such long term plans.
    Japanese car companies, including Toyota, were already showing alternative energy concepts for cars at the Tokyo Motor Show back in 1995, including electric and fuel cell powered vehicles, so they will be more aware than most of how long and bumpy the road from concept to reality can be, and of how much unforeseeable changes  -  or even lack of change  -  in the world around them can influence progress.


    --

    fritz


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    I was actually replying to that first part ALDO posted:

    Germany is a member of the zero-emission vehicle (ZEV) alliance which used the United Nations Conference on Climate Change (COP21) to announce a ban on conventionally powered vehicles by 2050

    I am not aware of any German government declaration that conventionally powered vehicles will be banned by 2050. So the whole ZEV alliance announcement is more of a declaration of intent than something written in stone. Unless of course our government doesn't tell us everything, which wouldn't be a surprise.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    The world is going crazy. What was called fascism is now called progressivism, along with its supporting isms. Are you ready to live with the limitations of an electric car? A gas powered car means freedom; an e-car means constrained mobility. Sure an e-car can be used as a transportation appliance in many scenarios, but does not have the mobility freedom of a gas-powered car and it won't have it for many many years if at all.

    Crazy, how the masses jump into the nonsense.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    by 2050 all major bridges and highways will be tolled to shit anyways broken heart


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Atzporsche:

    by 2050 all major bridges and highways will be tolled to shit anyways broken heart

    Are you saying progressivism wants to destroy the economy? If it's not their plan, it's what's going to happen.

     

     


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    You're right, EVs will not overtake gasoline cars for a while, but I don't get the range anxiety.. this technology is developing so fast, I can only applaud that Porsche is taking it seriously and stays with it. Remember, the Mission E will be recharged much faster. So in 5-10 years a recharge is as quick as fueling your car up and provide just as much "freedom" 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Until charging technology can get it done within filling up time, i.e. 5 mins, it will still give reasons for people not wanting one.

    I jumped in the 918 yesterday, battery is low, 20%, I don't mind as I have a 600HP charger onboard.

    That's what EV needs right now before charging technology catch up, a onboard range extender. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    918 is sweet, nice V8 charger  

    I want to try to battery swap process one of these days. See if it's faster than fueling like Elon advertised live! I love the idea of them keeping ownership of the battery, and you just rent them, and interchange as if refueling. That's brilliant. 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    If humanity wants any chance to limit warming to 2°C (let alone the 1.5°C discussed in Paris today) the transition to electric cars, charged with renewable energy, can't come soon enough. 


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    neunelf:

    If humanity wants any chance to limit warming to 2°C (let alone the 1.5°C discussed in Paris today) the transition to electric cars, charged with renewable energy, can't come soon enough. 

    The first priority should be to put adequate renewable energy capacity in place. Until that's done, we aren't doing the environment any favours by increasing the demand on existing electricity generation or distribution capacity, as we are still too dependent on fossil fuels, including coal and worse, in too many parts of the world. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Do you really think the Paris climate circus accord is real and meaningful? How can one show that any deltaT variation is due to a deltaF decrease in gas use? It's simply laughable, at least for the who have any technical knowledge.

    Back to EVs. The problem is it will take a long time (if ever) to build a network of chargers to allow anybody to drive anywhere. Fast charging is nice, but its price is very high - short battery life.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Can't speak about the US but in Central Europe the Tesla Supercharger network is pretty good.

    I won't comment on the rest because the science is pretty clear and this thread likely not a great place to debate it ;)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    This just in: Most people don't drive far more than once or twice a year.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    neunelf:

    If humanity wants any chance to limit warming to 2°C (let alone the 1.5°C discussed in Paris today) the transition to electric cars, charged with renewable energy, can't come soon enough. 

     

    Well in the USA the majority of electricity produced are from coal power plants, which emit way more CO2 gas than all the cars on the road combined. 

    Renewable energy source in the USA is a tricky proposition, just about anyone there doesn't want a gigantic windmill within their view, nor do they want to see solar panel farms the size of a city popping up somewhere close. And not enough rivers with strong enough current to produce hydro power, and the environmentalists will also have a fit with the hydro dams blocking fishes. 

    A properly designed and secured nuclear power plant would be the best option, but environmentalists are also against using nuclear. 

    So back to square one.


    --

     

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Yes it's tricky. To make things worse there is a lot of CO2 in the production of cars (not sure if Tesla discloses figures).

    My hope rests on a combination of cheap solar, wind and offshore wind and much better batteries. 


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    The real Science says there is no global warming. The often quoted 97% of prominent scientists who think otherwise are 77 of 79 conveniently filtered down form a scientist population of 10,000 who fell off of that bandwagon.

    CO2 is not a pollutant. CO2 is good and essential.

    Global warming started with Al Gore who lived large with family payments from Occidental Petroleum and then started this crusade to become super rich overnight all the while selling a key asset to Al Jazeera... 

    Most people are not qualified to read science papers and analyze data and unfortunately faithfully accept the false results shoved down their throats by corrupt politicians. This Paris accord is not good; it's another corrupted process to fatten the pockets of a number of politicians. The rest of us... pays and will live less well.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    neunelf:

    Can't speak about the US but in Central Europe the Tesla Supercharger network is pretty good.

    I won't comment on the rest because the science is pretty clear and this thread likely not a great place to debate it ;)

    Pretty clear for many scientists, not even two thirds from what I heard, not for all (= 100%) scientists. Smiley

    Right, this may not be the right thread to discuss it but I am sometimes pretty surprised how the intellectuals in Europe seem to be convinced by a human made climate change, just based on what some scientists claim and because the UN and many governments support it. I do not deny the possibility of a human made climate change, it would be foolish but I am not convinced yet. 

    In Germany, there has been a poll among climatologists at German universities about human made climate change. 84% are not convinced that scientists have fully understood the ongoing climate processes yet. Only 46% of these scientists think that humans are to blame for the current climate change. 27% think that humans may have influenced it partially. 25% are not convinced that humans are to blame at all. Only slightly over 50% think that the climate change will have negative repercussions on humans and their life.

    So whoever has a science background, knows that there is a lot of (justified) doubt. However, since a lot of money is involved (I said it over and over again), we are talking huge budgets here for climate science projects, this is not only about what is best for humanity anymore but also what is best for universities, environmental organizations and governments ("green taxes"). Also, the industry needs new fields of development and products, the current ones are already "done". The green industry, green technology, green energy, this is all the future and a lot of money is in it.

    Again, I do not deny human made global warming but whoever says there is 100% or even 99% proof, is lying right now. There is no such proof.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Whoopsy:
     

     

    Well in the USA the majority of electricity produced are from coal power plants...

    Not quite accurate...a majority is more than 50%.

    Here are the U.S. numbers:

    Coal = 39%

    Natural gas = 27%

    Nuclear = 19%

    Hydropower = 6%

    Wind = 4.4%

    Other renewables = 2.6%

     

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    @RC human knowledge is never certain but that doesn't mean there isn't a broad consensus that climate change is man made and likely very, very dangerous. As a father of three I'd be scared if there was just a 10% chance that we are on a slippery slope towards disaster and our odds are much worse then that.

    A few times I have spoken to nuclear phycisists and I've always felt a little more at ease afterwards; whenever speaking to a scientist from the IPCC I am more worried. Just compare the most recent IPCC report (AR5) with the first one to see how consensus has shifted.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    964C2:
    Whoopsy:
     

     

    Well in the USA the majority of electricity produced are from coal power plants...

    Not quite accurate...a majority is more than 50%.

    Here are the U.S. numbers:

    Coal = 39%

    Natural gas = 27%

    Nuclear = 19%

    Hydropower = 6%

    Wind = 4.4%

    Other renewables = 2.6%

     

     

     

    Depends on whether one defines majority, over 50% or simply the highest percentage. Kind of like the voting system Smiley

    But in any case, between coal and natural gas, they are the majority of CO2 producing energy source. 


    --

     

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    neunelf:

    @RC human knowledge is never certain but that doesn't mean there isn't a broad consensus that climate change is man made and likely very, very dangerous. As a father of three I'd be scared if there was just a 10% chance that we are on a slippery slope towards disaster and our odds are much worse then that.

    Broad consensus? In the media and in politics maybe but not among scientists. Like I said before, many critical scientists are afraid to voice their concern(s) because "mobbing" is a reality among scientists as well. Smiley

    A few times I have spoken to nuclear phycisists and I've always felt a little more at ease afterwards; whenever speaking to a scientist from the IPCC I am more worried. Just compare the most recent IPCC report (AR5) with the first one to see how consensus has shifted.

    Consensus isn't always influenced by facts. Scientists aren't stupid people. If you cannot swim against the tide, well...guess what happens then? Smiley

    While for example the relativity theory is generally accepted by the scientific community, human made climate change isn't. Please do not get brainwashed by the mass media, there are many many scientists who still believe that we do not fully understand climate and the changes going on and many of these scientists are not sure if the climate change is man made or if it actually will negatively influence humanity. We are not talking about 1%, 5% or 10%, we are talking about many more. The consensus you mention is among those who are actually supporting the theory of a man made climate change, this is where your logic fails to support facts.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Nothing can be absolutely "proven" or based on perfect "facts" or "logic".  There is never a "consensus"--someone will always disagree.  I am gratified that climate change--even that caused by man--is being carefully analyzed, and that solutions are being discussed.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Wonderbar:

    Nothing can be absolutely "proven" or based on perfect "facts" or "logic".  There is never a "consensus"--someone will always disagree.  I am gratified that climate change--even that caused by man--is being carefully analyzed, and that solutions are being discussed.

    That, I can agree with but I do not see any reason for a rush, a rush which will cost "normal" people like me and you and especially the middle and lower middle class a fortune without any proven justification.

    I would love to see the same will and passion to eradicate cancer, even the common cold, to prohibit smoking or drinking alcohol or to bring world peace to the world but everything is about climate change and how to prevent it. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Not sure there is a "rush" going on, but I agree that sometimes if feels like one.  That feeling brings me to "the Media" which is necessary and often informative, but it exists on excitement and appeal, often misleading the public at large to react passionately.  

    You mention the lack of passion to cure cancer, smoking, etc.  There may not be "media" generated passion, but there are incredibly talented people working every moment to save lives, to find hope and cures.  Passion exists, just not the  front page "rush passion" that often accompanies so-called "world issues' like climate change, politics, etc.  

    Guess we better get back on topic, or this thread may start to generate a "rush" to solve climate change. wink


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    RC:

    Please do not get brainwashed by the mass media, there are many many scientists who still believe that we do not fully understand climate and the changes going on and many of these scientists are not sure if the climate change is man made or if it actually will negatively influence humanity.

     

    IPCC AR5 isn't exactly mass media. Look it up, it's fascinating to read. 


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 12/5/18 8:49 AM
    Porker
    408802 5201
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 12/13/18 8:47 PM
    Enmanuel
    324062 2007
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/8/18 8:33 AM
    Joost
     
     
     
     
     
    213108 1083
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 12/14/18 5:41 AM
    the-missile
    198356 2680
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 12/14/18 9:21 PM
    GnilM
    127566 2441
    AMG Sticky Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 12/6/18 3:34 PM
    RCA
    34108 321
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 12/14/18 9:35 PM
    CGX car nut
    18862 301
    Porsche Sticky Paint protection film 9/25/18 6:14 PM
    throt
    14396 121
    Porsche Sticky Child seats in a 991 11/29/18 3:43 PM
    RCA
    13844 35
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS 1/9/18 1:43 PM
    Kimi
    527117 5816
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 4/3/18 9:15 AM
    KresoF1
    484205 4254
    Porsche 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) Thread Closed 11/29/18 11:38 AM
    RCA
    296594 3195
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 9/13/18 10:12 AM
    RCA
    280987 2589
    Porsche Cayman GT4 11/29/18 3:41 PM
    xpto
    266797 2622
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S 1/23/18 12:27 AM
    RCA
    192154 1074
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 11/26/18 11:32 AM
    Rossi
    191825 1768
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 12/14/18 6:00 PM
    Enmanuel
    183450 3288
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 12/13/18 4:36 PM
    RCA
    151460 2475
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 8/31/18 10:25 AM
    WAY
    143217 757
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 1/6/18 10:41 PM
    Wonderbar
    128962 1284
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 5/22/18 9:16 PM
    RCA
    111975 789
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 5/3/18 7:52 PM
    CGX car nut
    106791 871
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 12/10/18 3:41 PM
    WhoopsyM
    90064 1252
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 12/7/18 10:15 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    67265 673
    Porsche UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne 2/6/18 2:13 PM
    RCA
    57483 423
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/3/18 11:09 AM
    bluelines
    47107 477
    Others Tesla Roadster 12/14/18 11:26 PM
    Leawood911
    46713 1487
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    42985 1122
    AMG AMG GT R 11/30/18 4:10 PM
    RCA
    42256 605
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo S Exclusive Series (2017) 12/4/18 3:17 PM
    BiTurbo
    39760 650
    281 items found, displaying 1 to 30.