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    Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    I know RTers are a more refined bunch but thought I'd put this here for those interested.

    The silver car is my 997GT2, the camera car is a 997.1 turbo with bolt ons inc bigger GT2 turbos with larger compressors with about 650hp.

    The conditions were pretty damp and the GT2 had little traction up to third gear just a kangarooing traction controlled take off 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLTtI_Rv8o54PT0jYP5v5f7M4AC4AhqSOR&v=CFZrG8juwwI&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop


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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    Looking at this race I would say this 997GT2 must have 800Hp if the 650Hp on the 997.1 Turbo are real. Thanks for sharing.


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    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    Ridiculous turn of speed when it gets going Toby, hugely impressive build! angel


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    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2013 MINI John Cooper Works GP / 2014 BMW Alpina D3 biturbo Touring


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    Wow - what was the measured endspeed ?

    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    Guys (thanks for comments wink) did you checkout the other videos this guy did, the one below is a stock 599GTO. This 997.1 is pretty quick, it does 0-300kph in under 28s.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIsR-yx2_9M&index=9&list=PLTtI_Rv8o54PT0jYP5v5f7M4AC4AhqSOR

    Measured end speeds were about 315kph for 997.1 turbo and 336kph was my best on the day for the 7GT2, the distance we accelerated was about 1.3 miles / 2100m


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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    On these modern fly by wire throttle controls ECU interprets your throttle demands so that you get improved throttle response (torque request) in gear for example if you apply the throttle 55% in 4th gear the ECU may give you 100% throttle for a couple of seconds to light the turbos up quicker.....generally this works nicely and improves the driving experience.

    When attempting to get maximum acceleration off the line with 950NM on tap at 100% throttle from 3000 odd rpm the one needs to try and limit the throttle. Because of the system described above this proves quite difficult and the ECU programming protocol still thinks you want the maximum stock torque (about 700NM) to get you flying...

    Checkout the numbers below, just changed into second gear after a pretty dismal first gear and trying to modulate the throttle to keep traction.

    At 5200rpm I am asking for 89% throttle and the program gives me 94% then despite my steady foot maintaining 89% the program winds the boost up to 100% , if you look at the numbers following you can see that this surge of 100% throttle creates big boost 2280mbar (and up to 2550) and lots of TC activity hence you can see I change gear at 6200 rpm (rather than 7000) to try and find some grip in 3rd gear.... hope you find this interesting indecision


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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    How many HP is making your engine Toby?


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    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    How many HP is making your engine Toby?

    It was signed off with 844PS DIN on the engine dyno but this was 780 hp uncorrected. RS Tuning always use the same correction program working with their weather station and say their power figures are always pretty spot on whenever they dyno a standard Porsche engine (using the same correction protocol). For these turbo engines I think there is too  much correction for the lower ambient pressure which there always is in KIrchhaslach, it was 990mbar on my dyno test day which when compared to the DIN 1025mbar (I think that's the DIN No) produces a big correction. In reality the way these turbo ECUs work they increase boost to compensate for the lower ambient pressure so shouldn't really have a correction applied....... its a fairly complex subject I think but I like to think I have a solid 800PS Smiley

     


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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    Very cool. And very interesting info about the ecu. I find that I get best performance when I don't simply jam the throttle but rather when I gently apply it in such a way that I am just asking for a bit more than is being delivered. If that makes sense.  It is still a very quick motion onto the throttle, depending on the gear.  That virtually eliminated turbo lag (which I believe is , in this case, the ecu doing too much thinking and adjusting for when full throttle is applied) along with my new turbo boost control valves which are more effective than stock. (EVO)


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    TB993tt:

    How many HP is making your engine Toby?

    It was signed off with 844PS DIN on the engine dyno but this was 780 hp uncorrected. RS Tuning always use the same correction program working with their weather station and say their power figures are always pretty spot on whenever they dyno a standard Porsche engine (using the same correction protocol). For these turbo engines I think there is too  much correction for the lower ambient pressure which there always is in KIrchhaslach, it was 990mbar on my dyno test day which when compared to the DIN 1025mbar (I think that's the DIN No) produces a big correction. In reality the way these turbo ECUs work they increase boost to compensate for the lower ambient pressure so shouldn't really have a correction applied....... its a fairly complex subject I think but I like to think I have a solid 800PS Smiley

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    The way you passed that 997.1 Turbo proves this figure easily Smiley


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    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    TB993tt:

    I know RTers are a more refined bunch but thought I'd put this here for those interested.

    The silver car is my 997GT2, the camera car is a 997.1 turbo with bolt ons inc bigger GT2 turbos with larger compressors with about 650hp.

    The conditions were pretty damp and the GT2 had little traction up to third gear just a kangarooing traction controlled take off 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLTtI_Rv8o54PT0jYP5v5f7M4AC4AhqSOR&v=CFZrG8juwwI&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

    Smiley Thanks for sharing.

    Now you know why I love AWD. Smiley Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    Your GT2 is not a car anymore , more like a jet indecision kiss


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     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    With the talk about “explosive” turbo engines I thought I would share some development which I am doing with my 997GT2.

    Too much explosive power in a 2WD 911 means traction problems in first and second and sometimes third gear.

    If you watch the vid clip in the first post on this thread you can see my GT2 being outrun by a manual 997 turbo (tuned with about 650PS) up to about 140mph (225kph) this is because it is very difficult to launch a RWD 911 which has over 900NM or torque and 800hp.

    The problem is exacerbated by the programming of modern turbo engines which adjusts the throttle to improve turbo lag which in effect can give the motor 100% throttle when one only depresses the throttle pedal by 60%. If you look at the table below you can see how this strategy works. In higher gears it works really well but in first and second it means it is impossible to feather the throttle and have any meaningful input in how much torque is going to the tyres !

    1503055967596table1.jpg

    I thought what I needed was reduced torque/power in first and second gears but unfortunately the 997 programming does not do this as standard. My tuner believes he has identified a table which will allow torque reduction as a percentage (of maximum) by gear position between 4 (user inputted) rev bands.

    So I have the first revision now uploaded to the ECU and have been testing extensively on different surfaces. The new program reduces torque in second by 80% up to 6000rpm then it is back to 100% so in theory my maximum torque should be about 740NM up to 5000rpm then rising thereafter.

    The reality is not quite what we wanted, checkout the vid and the flashing TC light. This is on smooth warm surface with decent traction.

    https://youtu.be/hgwwkwf6mfc

    I have done lots of data logging to try and ascertain what is happening in particular by watching the boost and TBH I can’t fathom it, I think there is less torque than before but before it was completely ridiculous with zero traction and now it is just ridiculous. The next settings will I guess be down to 60% and maybe 80% from 5000rpm and if that totally neutered it then we will end up with a third revision hopefully spot on. 

     


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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    Don't neuter it, that's part of the charm for it to be such a beast! kiss


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    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad


    Re: Two tuned 997s dragging on the runway.

    Porker:

    Don't neuter it, that's part of the charm for it to be such a beast! kiss

    Smiley My objective is to be able to put the power down in first and second on a decent grip flat surface in dry warm conditions, I reckon a 997GT2 can deploy about 650NM in first and about 800NM in second for a 0-100kph in about 3.4s, this is best possible.

    Remember 90% of the time the surface is not as described above it is cold/damp/wet/bumpy/low grip etc so 90% of th time it will still be unruly !

    Here is the first gear traction with the power supposed neutered to 70% (supposed 644NM) to 6000rpm then 100% 6000 onwards.- as you can see it doesn't look like the programming is working but I'm hoping that is to do with getting the lag/spool characteristics dialed in at a lower level.

    https://youtu.be/a1nwhgwMtEo


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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN


     
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