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    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Gnil,

    Which Porsche do you have ?

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    temm said:
    And this :

    Quote:
    But on each occasion the M5, like some kind of automated poker player, would simply call the F430 and then raise it by whatever was required to grip that bit harder, compose itself that much better and, ultimately, travel that much faster across the ground. You think I'm making this up? You need to drive an M5 over a beautiful moorland road with crests and dips and off-camber twists with a Ferrari F430 on your tail. And when you get to the end of that road and the Ferrari is nowhere in sight, and I mean nowhere, you'll realise.




    Quote:
    Make no mistake; the F430 is still one of the greatest sports cars of our time, and indeed of all time. But quite where that puts the new M5 is difficult to imagine. From another world is the best that I can do.






    i just watched the top gear episode of the m5 on my computer, they did a 1:26 on their track while the f430 did a 1:22. i realise you will always get different results from different people, just thought i'd add that in for comparison purposes

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Gnil,

    Which Porsche do you have ?



    I think he has a C4S on order..

    throt..

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    What does the M5 beast time around the ring ? ..

    Anyone ? ..

    throt..

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    I don't just say so. The numbers don't lie. The 430 is faster around the track then the M5 and the Stradale is faster around the track then the 430.

    The article from Autocar is the only magazine I've seen that has an M5 beating a 430. It's a good way to sell magazines. It worked on you. No such thing as bad publicity.

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    if memory also service me correct, autocar as been wrong with their tests on a few other articles? correct me if i'm wrong stradale

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    I don't just say so. The numbers don't lie. The 430 is faster around the track then the M5 and the Stradale is faster around the track then the 430.

    The article from Autocar is the only magazine I've seen that has an M5 beating a 430. It's a good way to sell magazines. It worked on you. No such thing as bad publicity.



    The thing I found strange from the off was even putting them together , there not exactly a match but the power outputs say lets do it.Also what about that other posters post with the M5 matching the Gallardo on the strip and out gunning others its a awesome engine along with excellant quick shift transmission which helps big time..

    throt..

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Weird that Autocars 430's performance numbers are way off the VERY FIRST 4 magazines I looked at. The first 4 magazines I looked at I was able to get 0-60 numbers on the 430 and all 4 showed much faster 0-60. Motor Trend & CAR & DRIVER also had 0-100 and again Autocar is much slower. The one I trust the most "EVO" has the 430 .4 seconds faster 0-60. So what in the world was Autocar doing when they tested the 430 ? Sounds like bs to sell magazines to me. Not a magazine I would subscribe to. Maybe something was wrong with the F430 that had for their tests. It's pretty obvious SOMETHING was wrong.

    Autocar
    0 - 60mph F430 4.4 secs
    0 - 100mph F430 9.4 secs

    Car & Driver F430
    60 mph: 3.5
    100 mph: 7.9
    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=8896&page_number=4

    Motor Trend F430
    0-60 3.8
    0-100 8.6

    Road & Track F430
    0-60 3.5

    EVO F430
    0-60 4.0

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Even with 0-60 vs 0-62 their numbers are still off. And EVO is UK.
    Maybe Autocar was testing a 360 ?

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    if memory also service me correct, autocar as been wrong with their tests on a few other articles? correct me if i'm wrong stradale



    It's the only magazine that I know of that I don't subscribe to.

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    throt said:
    What does the M5 beast time around the ring ? ..

    Anyone ? ..

    throt..


    I think 8 mins 10 sec if my memory is correct.

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    The thing I love the most. The part that tells me the magazine is more into Sensationalism than accurcay is the part where the author says the M5 will blow away a 430 with 4 people and luggage : Here :

    "But come on; don't tell me someone who's happy to spray Pounds130,000 in the direction of an F430, complete with carbon brakes and sports interior as this particular example was, will be happy to be blown off the road by a BMW. With four people on board. And a bootful (trunkful) of luggag. No, I don't reckon they will either."


    Autocars OWN performance numbers has the 430 BEATING the M5 to 60 mph and BEATING the M5 to 100mph and then the M5 beating the 430 to 150mph by half a second. Then they're going to say you can add over 500 lbs (with 3 more people and luggage) to the M5 and blow away a 430 ? Come on, what bs.

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Gnil,

    Which Porsche do you have ?



    ...none yet, I have the C4S on order and I am supposed to get it in november! Can't wait.... in the mean time I keep going to my dealer to do 'test drives'...

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    Gnil said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Gnil,

    Which Porsche do you have ?



    ...none yet, I have the C4S on order and I am supposed to get it in november! Can't wait.... in the mean time I keep going to my dealer to do 'test drives'...



    lol !
    Everything I've read is so good about the 9974S. Definately better, closer to being more of a drivers car vs the 997 S then was the 996 4 vs the 996.

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Weird that Autocars 430's performance numbers are way off the VERY FIRST 4 magazines I looked at. The first 4 magazines I looked at I was able to get 0-60 numbers on the 430 and all 4 showed much faster 0-60. Motor Trend & CAR & DRIVER also had 0-100 and again Autocar is much slower. The one I trust the most "EVO" has the 430 .4 seconds faster 0-60. So what in the world was Autocar doing when they tested the 430 ? Sounds like bs to sell magazines to me. Not a magazine I would subscribe to. Maybe something was wrong with the F430 that had for their tests. It's pretty obvious SOMETHING was wrong.

    Autocar
    0 - 60mph F430 4.4 secs
    0 - 100mph F430 9.4 secs

    Car & Driver F430
    60 mph: 3.5
    100 mph: 7.9
    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=8896&page_number=4

    Motor Trend F430
    0-60 3.8
    0-100 8.6

    Road & Track F430
    0-60 3.5

    EVO F430
    0-60 4.0



    New M5 is handily beaten (by ?3-4 secs) by the ?200lb heavier SL55 in N-ring times.....so M5's hp/torque/chassis/brakes ain't all that remarkable if an "anesthetized", 3 yo Merc cruiser can beat it on N-ring....and offer functioning air cond and a GT-sized fuel tank...

    430's N-ring time isn't out yet, but, if history is any guide, F's tend to look, sound and viscerally excite their drivers into thinking they're faster than N-ring times ever objectively prove....but perception is sometimes more important than reality...

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    07,44 = Pagani Zonda S '02, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto 2002.
    07,46 = Porsche 996 GT2 '01, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto 2001.
    07,47 = Porsche 996 GT2 '01, Walther Röhrl, 2000.
    07,47 = Porscge GT3RS R-compound tires, Rohl.
    07,52 = Lamborghini Murcielago '02 570 ps, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto 2002.
    07,52 = Lamborghini Gallardo '03 500ps SPORT SUSPENSION, von Saurma, Sport Auto 2003.
    07,55 = Caterham R500, Robert Nearn 2000.
    07,54 = Porsche 996 GT3 380 ps Von Saurma.
    07,56 = Porsche 996 GT3 360 ps, Walther Röhrl 2000.
    07:56 = Chevrolet Z06 MY2004 (GM official testing)
    07,56 = Porsche 996 Turbo 420 ps 2000.
    07,69 = Honda NSX-R Best motoring (not complete lap! see saurma's 8:09)
    07,59 = Porsche 997S sport mode
    08,04 = Lamborghini Diablo GT, Sport Auto 2000.
    08,05 = Ferrari 575 Maranello '02, Sport Auto 2002.
    08,05 = Porsche 997S normal mode
    08,06 = Caterham Superlight 140 hp 470 kg, Robert Nearn 1998/1998.
    08,07 = Ferrari 550 Maranello, Sport Auto 1998/1999.
    08,09 = Ferrari 360, Sport Auto 2000.
    08,09 = Lamborghini Diablo SV 520 ps.
    08,09 = Honda NSX-R Von Saurma-sport auto (320HP)
    08,09 = Porsche 993 GT2 430 ps.
    08,10 = Chrysler Viper GTS, Sport Auto.
    08,12 = Porsche 993 Turbo S 432 ps, 1998.
    08,12 = Porsche 993 Turbo 408 ps, 1997.
    08,12 = MB SL AMG '02, Sport Auto 2002.
    08,13 = Ferrari F355 380 ps.
    08,13 = Lotus Espirit Sport 350.
    08,15 = Porsche 964 RS 260 ps.
    08,15 = BMW Z8 400 ps, Sport Auto 2000.
    08,16 = Porsche 996 Carrera 4S 320 ps, Porsche test drivers 2001.
    08,16 = Porsche 997 325HP
    08,17 = Porsche 993 Carrera 4, Nils Baker 1997.
    08,17 = Porsche 996 Carrera 300 ps.
    08,17 = Maserati Cambiocorsa '02, Sport Auto 2002.
    08,18 = BMW Z8 400 ps.
    08,18 = Ferrari F355 380 ps, Sport Auto.
    08,20 = BMW M5 E39 -98 400 ps, BMW test drivers 1998.
    08,20 = BMW M3 Evo E36 321 ps.
    08,20 = Audi RS6 '02 , Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto 2002.
    08,22 = Dodge Viper GTS -98, Gunnar Dackevall 1998.
    08,22 = BMW M Coupe 321 ps, 1999.
    08,22 = BMW e46 M3 -00, BMW test drivers 2000.
    08,25 = Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo 6 280 hp, 2000.
    08,25 = Audi RS4 '01 375 ps, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto 2001.
    08,25 = Callaway C12 -99 400 hp, Sport Auto 1999.
    08,28 = Porsche 911 Cabrio 993 285 ps, 1998/1999.
    08,28 = Nissan Skyline GTR standard 276 hp, Stephen Sutcliffe, AutoCar 1998/1999.
    08,28 = BMW M5 E39 400 ps.
    08,28 = Porsche 964 RS 260 ps, Sport Auto 1992.
    08,29 = Mercedes CLK 55 AMG.
    08,31 = Ferrari F355 GTS 380 ps, Car, Barrie 'Whizzo' Williams 1998/1999.
    08,32 = Porsche Boxter S.
    08,32 = BMW Z3 M Roadster 321 ps.
    08,32 = Porsche 964 Turbo 365 ps, Sport Auto 1992.
    08,33 = Honda NSX 6 speed 276 hp, Dirk Schoysman, Car 1998/1999.
    08,34 = BMW M3 -97 321 ps, 1997.
    08,35 = BMW M3 SMG -98 321 ps, 1998.
    08,36 = Jaguar XKR.
    08,37 = Maserati 3200 GT.
    08,37 = Nissan Skyline GTR V-Spec 350 hp, Dirk Schoysman, Car 1998/1999.
    08,37 = Subaru Impreza GT Turbo '00 218 ps, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto 2000.
    08,37 = Volkswagen Golf R32 '02, Sport Auto 2002.
    08,38 = Honda NSX -98 280 hp, 1998.
    08,38 = Porsche 911 993 Carrera 285 ps, Stephen Sutcliffe, Car 1998/1999.
    08,38 = MB SL500, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto 2001.
    08,40 = Chevrolet Corvette -98 344 hp, 1998.
    08,41 = Aston Martin DB7 Vantage 420 hp.
    08,41 = E36 M3, Roger Sharp.
    08,41 = Audi S3 '00 210 ps, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto 2000.
    08,42 = Porsche Cayenne TT.
    08,42 = Lotus Exige, Sport Auto.
    08,42 = Audi S4 265 ps, Sport Auto.
    08,43 = Honda Integra Type-R 190 hp, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto 2000.
    08,44 = Corvette -97 339 hp, Dirk Schoysman.
    08,46 = Porsche 911 Carrera S 993 -97 285 ps, Barrie 'Whizzo' Williams, Car 1997.
    08,46 = Lotus Esprit Turbo S4 267 hp.
    08,47 = onda Civic Type-R '02, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto 2002.
    08,49 = Porsche 993 3,8 RS 300 ps.
    08,49 = Porsche Carrera RS 3,8'94, Mark Gillies.
    08,49 = Jaguar XKR Coupe (automatic) 363 hp, Sport Auto.
    08,49 = Porsche 944 Turbo 250 ps '89, Mikjel, Norway 2002.
    08,50 = BMW M3 E30 234 ps'87, Espen, Norway 2002.
    08,51 = MB AMG C43, 1998.
    08,51 = Alfa Romeo 156 GTA '02 250 ps, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto 2002.
    08,52 = Mercedes CLK 430 automatic 279 ps.
    09,01 = BMW 325i e36 200 ps, Sven Trusheim, Germany 2001.
    09,05 = Porsche 930 350 ps, Tor-Helge Ludvigsen, Norway 2001.
    09,07 = Mercedes SLK 230.
    09,16 = Ferrari Testarossa 390 ps, AMS 1987.
    09,17 = BMW 750i 1990, Oliver Lauer, Germany.
    09,19 = Subaru Impreza Turbo 218 bhp, Michael Oliver, UK 2002.
    09,20 = Honda Accord Type-R, Autovisie.
    09,20 = BMW X5 4,4 286 ps.
    09,23 = Subaru Impreza Turbo 208 hp, Dave Marett.
    09,23 = Lotus Exige 177 bhp, Michael Oliver, UK 2001.
    09,24 = VW Corrado VR6 190 ps, Autobild.
    09,25 = Opel Calibra 4x4 Turbo 204 ps, Autobild.
    09,26 = Alfa Romeo 75 2.0 Twin Spark, Giacometti Marco April 2001.
    09,26 = Porsche 911 Carrera 231 ps, AMS 1987.
    09,29 = Mazda MX6 165 hp, Autobild.
    09,30 = BMW 323i 1981, Tim Røsand Norway 1987.
    09,30 = Toyota MR2 156 hp, Autobild.
    09,31 = New Mini Cooper S 2002, Marco 2002.
    09,34 = Honda Prelude 160 hp, Autobild.
    09,35 = Porsche 930 1989, app 350 ps, Tor-Helge Ludvigsen, Norway 2000.
    09,35 = Honda 200 SX 169 hp, Autobild.
    09,35 = BMW M3 E30 200 ps, AMS 1987.
    09,38 = BMW 323ti Compact 170 PS, Frank Arndt (Germany), 1999
    09,44 = VW Jetta II 1.8l 16V cat 129 ps 1988, Julian Boldt, Germany.
    09,44 = Peugeot 205 GTI 1,9 128 ps, AMS 1987.
    09,45 = BMW e39 520, Dag Johnsen, Norway, 2001.
    09,46 = Opel Omega Caravan 2,0 16V Turbo, Jan-Terje Nygaard, Norway 2001.
    09,47 = Golf GTI 16V '88 160 ps, Nils Classon Sweden 2002.
    09,50 = Porsche 911 Carrera 2 1992 250 ps, Tor-Helge Ludvigsen, Norway 1999.
    09,55 = Mitsubishi Eclipse 150 hp, Autobild.
    09,56 = VW Polo Open Air 16v(100hp)-97, Peeter Pahv, Sweden, 2001.
    09,57 = Opel Omega 3000 177 ps, AMS 1987.
    09,58 = BMW e30 325i touring 170 ps, Matthias Flatt, Germany 2001.
    10,00 = Lancia Delta HF 4 WD 165 ps, AMS 1987.
    10,03 = Toyota MR2 124 hp, AMS 1987.
    10,08 = BMW e34 520i Øyvind Kaurstad, Norway 2002.
    10,16 = Opel Zafira OPC, Jan-Terje Nygaard, Norway 2002.
    10,18 = BMW 318i '98 115 hp, Ove Kvam, Norway, 2002.
    10,21 = Peugeot 309 75 PS, Peter, Germany.
    10,30 = VW Bora TDi 2000 115 ps, Tor-Helge Ludvigsen, Norway 2001.
    10,35 = Peugeot 307 HDI 90 ps, Marcel Vermaas, Belgium 2001.
    10,45 = Mazda '00 323 F Special 1,5 88 hp, Espen 2000.
    10,47 = AUDI 80 '86 1,8l 90 ps, Marc Weber, Germany 2001.
    10,55 = Peugeot 307 XS HDI 90 ps, Arne Ridderhof, Holland 2001.
    11,00 = Opel Astra sport 1,6 16V 74 Kw, Wintertires and 4 persons, Peter Hahn jun. 2002.
    11,05 = Subaru Leone 1800 90 hp, Marnix van Deijk, Netherlands 2001.
    11,07 = BMW 320i '88 E30 Hendrik Vocks Germany 2001.
    11,09 = Toyota Corolla 1,3 XLi 88 hp, Jan-Terje Nygaard, Norway 2001.
    11,20 = Austin Metro 1300 65 hp, Norbert Ramaer, Netherlands 2000.
    11,25 = Corolla XLI 12 V 75 hp, Peter Fichtner, Germany, 1999.
    11,30 = Mazda 323 F Special '00 1,5 88 hp, Henning Fjeld (his first lap ever) 2000.
    11.38 = Opel Astra 1.8 16V '97 115 ps, Bart Willem Nagel, The Netherlands 2000.
    11,45 = Ford Focus 1.8 Diesel Estate, Chris Rae, UK 2000.
    12,01 = Opel Omega 2,5 TDi, Oliver Breidenbach.
    12,10 = Fiat Punto '00 58 hp, Bengt Eklund, Sweden 2000.
    12,17 Corolla XLI 12 V 75 hp, Peter Fichtner, Germany 1998.
    12,32 VW Golf GT TDi PD 115 ps, Steve Hole - Sportscar magazine - UK, 2001.
    12,35 VW Polo Variant SDi 64 ps, Joerg Schmidt, Germany.
    12,37 Citroen Saxo VTS 1.4 75 ps, Paul Van de Meent, Netherlands
    13,10 VW Polo '89 45 ps, Matthias Flatt, Germany 1999.
    13.22 Renault Laguna '00 1.6 16V 110 ps, Bob Schulein, The Netherlands 2000.


    I think after the above hammering the 997 has took we need to get back to what really shows a cars true metal , and here the 997S shows it in true factual style around this testing circuit .Check the cars above it then check there stats such as from price to horsepower and then I think everyone would agree that it is a true thourogh bred ..

    Just my fair reminder I think it deserves that..

    throt..
    --------------------

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    iia said:
    Quote:
    throt said:
    What does the M5 beast time around the ring ? ..

    Anyone ? ..

    throt..


    I think 8 mins 10 sec if my memory is correct.



    Thanks mate ..

    throt..

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    that means the M5's time is the same of a Viper GTS?! how can that be?

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=922942

    More times..

    throt..

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    M5 = 7.52 ..

    Its useful .

    throt..

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    wtf, that's 20 seconds less than what iia said?! damn it OWNED the C2S

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    wtf, that's 20 seconds less than what iia said?! damn it OWNED the C2S



    That thing boogies , the transmission changes must be ultra quick , flipping sedan ..

    throt..

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    throt said:
    M5 = 7.52 ..

    Its useful .

    throt..



    No way the M5 does it in 7.52, that's just not possible, an M5 cannot be almost as fast as a gt3-rs on a track with that much bends!!
    I don't want to start the same discussion as the one about corvette, I just don't think it is possible.

    Greets

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    Porker said:
    Quote:
    throt said:
    M5 = 7.52 ..

    Its useful .

    throt..



    No way the M5 does it in 7.52, that's just not possible, an M5 cannot be almost as fast as a gt3-rs on a track with that much bends!!
    I don't want to start the same discussion as the one about corvette, I just don't think it is possible.

    Greets



    Exactly and thats why I went searching , just curious of track times after the 430 / M5 issue ..

    I thought the time would be useful but not that useful..

    7.52 , I wonder if he was smoking a pipe as well..

    throt..

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    7.52 - that's incredible.

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    I just got a call from my friend at the BMW dealership today. He has found an M5 for me with only 300 miles on the clock. I'm going to find out the spec tomorrow. I already have an offer from the Porsche centre for my 997 C2 and am ordering another from them. Thought it might be fun to own the M5 for a couple of months whilst I wait on the new 997. I may even have a buyer lined up to take it off my hands and pay me what I'm being offered it for by my mate. If it all comes off I think I'll do a bit of 997 baiting in it.... only kidding guys

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    It's an awesome ride. I liked my 2002 M5. The new one is sick.

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Found this amusing pic on a BMW forum..


    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    Found this amusing pic on a BMW forum..





    Hmmm. The guy who wrote that obviously didn't know the difference between "centrifugal force" and "inertia".

    Re: I was driving my C2S Cab today and ....

    The internet is full of bogus ring lap times, most of them are simply not full laps times with an altered start or finish line, or are optimistically guestimated times after what the driver thinks traffic has slowed him down, etc.

    Saurma did an 8:13 with the M5 and thats the only time we can go by, and should only be compared to the other Saurma times of other sportcars.

    7:52?... I don't think so, not even with a JATO rocket up its arse




    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    Found this amusing pic on a BMW forum..





    Hmmm. The guy who wrote that obviously didn't know the difference between "centrifugal force" and "inertia".



    Either that or the driver seriously lost the car to oversteer

     
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