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    415hp enough?

    Nowadays lots of cars like RS4, M3, AMG etc have more than 415hp.

    At this price range, do you think the GT3 has enough hp?

    Do you think 415hp will outdated very soon?


    Re: 415hp enough?

    No. Anyone thinking it is all about HP has lost the plot. The reason the cars you mention have more HP is becuase they weight more, thus they have to make up with more HP. I think, and hope, that increasing weight is soon outdated since this is far more restrictive on driving dynamics than the number of HP.

    Re: 415hp enough?

    the "hp" won't be outdated when Porsche is going to keep the weight down

    Re: 415hp enough?

    Completly agree. I have seen RS4, M3's...in some trackdays here in Catalunya Circuit. When you see how they go in a track you understand they are not real sportcars (lot of understeering). Even a 911 Turbo doesn't look the same with its 480 hp.

    Re: 415hp enough?

    I'd rather like lighter cars due to reduced dimensions and lighter materials with a little bit less power, than cars getting ever bigger and bigger with enormous horsepower numbers (that also lead to higher average consumption BTW).

    Re: 415hp enough?

    so Porsche may already step in the "lighter weight" world first than its competitors.. i was just thinking...

    Re: 415hp enough?

    Ive driven an RS4 and with all its hp compared to a lithe and supple porsche, it feels like your at the helm of a (allbeit very speedy) barge!

    Re: 415hp enough?

    997 Gt3 is a track oriented street car ,with this car u may go on track , there this car has no rivals .
    to go on street it's better the Turbo

    Re: 415hp enough?

    Have you seen recent magazine comparos where the Audi S6 came in first in Motor Trend and second (just one point behind winner) to the MBZ E63 and BMW M5 in Car and Driver ? The latter two cars have 70 MORE hp, weigh about 200-300 lbs LESS and cost about $20K MORE vs the S6 ! Each car has it's own character and serves different type buyer . Can NEVER go just by spec sheet , i.e., bench racing .

    Re: 415hp enough?

    Is 415 enough? Absolutely not.

    What's more HP good for in a street car? Passing or going fast in the turns?

    I drive on rural roads with not alot of passing lanes. There's always a slowpoke or a brain dead driver in front of me. They drive 50,48,53,59,52,49mph all in the space of ten minutes. I'm constantly having to watch them and vary my speed; very tiring.

    My point: there's no such thing as enough HP in my cars for these passing conditions. Gonna trade my 997S for the Turbo in a year or so.

    Re: 415hp enough?

    Short answer yes.

    This is a thread I posted a few weeks ago it compares an M5, AM Vantage and a 997 S. Its not a GT3 but the same rules probably apply. It s unfortunate but people are too focused on overall horsepower as a number and seem to overlook other chacteristics. Its only one part of the porsche equation.

    Here is the link M5 vs AM VS 997S

    Re: 415hp enough?

    If Porsche could keep the weight down, not give up any of the fine attributes in their 911s, freeze the price and add, say, 35-45 more horsepower and a corresponding amount of torque, which of us on the board would say, "no thank you, I've got enough "?

    IMHO, 415 will be eclipsed; it's inevitable.

    Re: 415hp enough?

    I am just wondering except those professional racing driver.

    Anyone other people can explore all 415hp on street and tracks?

    Re: 415hp enough?

    HP is like money, you can never have too much!

    Re: 415hp enough?

    Quote:
    997GT3RS said:
    Nowadays lots of cars like RS4, M3, AMG etc have more than 415hp.

    At this price range, do you think the GT3 has enough hp?

    Do you think 415hp will outdated very soon?





    I don't care if the car had 800hp some will feel it is not enough. I don't think Porsche tries to have the car with the most hp.

    Re: 415hp enough?

    No, it is clearly not enough. I agree with most that the 997 GT3 currently has no rivals at the track.(Unless, of course, you read the recent rag about the turbo turning better lap times.)

    Although, 415 HP in a car the weight of the GT3 is excellent, the powerband is far too narrow to really appreciate it anywhere but the track or WOT above 6000 rpm.

    Let's face it the 997S doesn't make nearly enough power and the turbo is a little porky. I agree that I'd prefer a lighter sports car to a heavier sedan with gobs of power, but come on...Porsche needs to get on the ball.

    The E92 M3 may not be a true sports car, but it will do some damage to the 997S (even facelifted and HP bumped) on the street and likely run with it at the track.

    The 2008 Skyline GT-R may not be a Porsche, but for half the price, will likely keep the 997 turbo on it's toes.

    Here is what Porsche should offer:
    997S 400 HP w/a useable (streetable powerband)
    997 Turbo 500 HP and at least 80-100 lbs less, without PCCB and/or X50.

    In the end, there is never enough horsepower.

    It's like Robert Parker and wine scores...

    It's a good system for the simpleton's who don't want to make the effort to learn more and experience more using their own abilities.

    More horsepower is for the lazy driver: using your brain and enhancing your skills will get you way better performance than more power.

    Lazy manufacturers will use this as the easy way out when they should be taking weight out of the car to make it lighter, faster, and a better handler.

    Given the choice I would pay more for a lighter car (take out 200kg's please!) than for a car with more hp.

    Re: It's like Robert Parker and wine scores...

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    It's a good system for the simpleton's who don't want to make the effort to learn more and experience more using their own abilities.

    More horsepower is for the lazy driver: using your brain and enhancing your skills will get you way better performance than more power.




    Uh..., OK..., I'll keep that in mind as I "lazily" try to pass a slowpoke on a rural highway with limited passing opportunities.

    In my BoxsterS I have to actually develop a "plan" to pass a slowpoke. I have to work very hard to get the timing right, consider the terrain and push the car to it's absolute limit. So I know how to use my brain.

    Problem is, passing in a low-powered Boxster often involves alot more risk than passing in a higher HP car.




    Ideal is 600 HP per metric ton.

    FYI, Alain DeCadenet sez (and it's gotta be true ) that 600 HP per metric ton (2200lbs) is the ultimate ratio for a race car.

    Doing some quick arithmetic and estmation I'd say the HP wars for driver's cars should top out at 400HP per ton.


    Re: It's like Robert Parker and wine scores...

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    It's a good system for the simpleton's who don't want to make the effort to learn more and experience more using their own abilities.

    More horsepower is for the lazy driver: using your brain and enhancing your skills will get you way better performance than more power.

    Lazy manufacturers will use this as the easy way out when they should be taking weight out of the car to make it lighter, faster, and a better handler.

    Given the choice I would pay more for a lighter car (take out 200kg's please!) than for a car with more hp.



    I assume you own a Miata or Elise?

    Re: It's like Robert Parker and wine scores...

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    It's a good system for the simpleton's who don't want to make the effort to learn more and experience more using their own abilities.

    More horsepower is for the lazy driver: using your brain and enhancing your skills will get you way better performance than more power.

    Lazy manufacturers will use this as the easy way out when they should be taking weight out of the car to make it lighter, faster, and a better handler.

    Given the choice I would pay more for a lighter car (take out 200kg's please!) than for a car with more hp.



    I assume you own a Miata or Elise?



    LOL. Damn all those "Simpletons"!

    Re: It's like Robert Parker and wine scores...

    I get what he's saying as it pertains to most drivers and muscle cars.

    I think most guys who have Porsches, Ferraris etc, take their driving seriously, take PDE and would be delighted to learn more with more HP.

    I mean driving a Turbo fast around a track is alot different from driving a 997. A lazy person would think it was the same except one had more HP?

    Re: It's like Robert Parker and wine scores...

    Quote:
    [Problem is, passing in a low-powered Boxster often involves alot more risk than passing in a higher HP car.



    That's called driver skill. How you handle it, rather than being given it on a plate with more hp.

    Re: It's like Robert Parker and wine scores...

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    I assume you own a Miata or Elise?



    And Elise would be a better test of skill than your FIAT Nick: that really is the lazy man's way out. For your need all you require is the Hawaiian shirt and a fake SoCal tan and you're there.

    Re: 415 hp enough?

    As the previous comments here have shown, it's not a simple question. How much horsepower is enough, for whom, why, and how?

    Perhaps the better question is how much torque is enough? What's the power to weight ratio of the car? How much loss is there in the drivetrain? How effective are the tires at delivering that horsepower to the roadway? What's the torque curve of the car look like and how do the gear ratios on the car allow for use of that torque? Hell, even the weather on any given day can affect the power output of a car.

    Maybe 415hp will be outdated soon. If it is, I hope it's not just because people want to see bigger numbers on paper, but because the cars are actually driving better with the bigger numbers.

    Re: 415 hp enough?

    I'd like to try to simplify things.

    If you're talking _road_ cars (not track cars) I don't get the big fuss.

    On highways, more HP is better, and with Porsche you can assume the stability and braking characteristics will be in proportion to the HP.

    IOW, making a car with incredible acceleration from 50-100mph, requires more HP/tq, no? That's the best way to pass on a highway with limited passing lanes.


    Re: 415 hp enough?

    381hp is about right... for now.

    I would much rather improve my driving skills before thinking of having more hp.


    Re: 415hp enough?

    I don't think we need more than 400 bhp.
    What we really need it's an all (or at least 85%) aluminum 911.

    A lighter car will lower the consumption and the CO2 output, increase the performance of the car and it will be even more enjoyable to drive.

    Re: 415hp enough?

    415 HP. There is nothing on the road that will blow you away. And there are few cars that would take you off the line. When I drive my C2S, I know that going against a standard vette would give me problems, but not with my GT3. The thing is fast. Car and driver 0-60mph in 3.8s and 0-100 was 8.4s. Now that fast enough for me. I know you can always add more HP but 415hp is fine with me.

    Re: 415hp enough?

    Quote:
    mvn1971 said:
    415 HP.



    That's interesting. The CGT has 600hp. Why is it "slow" off the line? 0-60 in something like 3.9 sec (?). That's the same (or better?) as TT acceleration at a "mere" 480hp, right? (I might have the numbers wrong). Anyway, seems like a huge amount of HP for only a fraction of a second or less. Is it the 50-150mph times which are different for 600 vs. 480 hp?

    Maybe you guys have a good point: does the extra hp quickly lead to diminishing returns?


     
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