Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 Language: English Region: Worldwide Sticky: yes Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    I guess you could interpret good value as in perf for the buck, but that is not the case in the context of the discussion in this thread, given the tech the 918 had at the time it wasn't exactly a money maker for Porsche at 880k pricetag, whixhwis what Nick meant by good value and was also less expensive that its competitors while offering equal or better performance, and for a buyer like Nick it turned out not bad value financially given how it held its value and the perks of the VIP program he took advantage of during this time.

    Taycan however I don't think will be a good value, at least the first generation, the pricetag won't be good value since the initial demand is high and Porsches pricing lately is of the roof, but also running costs may not be as low as one would think (cost of supercharging, etc), and don't know about the long term costs of ownership regarding the durability of the batteries, and other costs which are yet unknown, may be overall less or overall more. The resale price is also unknown yet and will also be a factor negative or positive in the good value equation. It's such a completely new product that there are many unknowns.
    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    The 918 was selling so bad that they even offered me one...  angry

    Then, things changed and the 918 was sold out.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    I could have bought one as well from here at a very low price compared to Europe at that time. Plus invited to the PAG presentation at Yas during 2 days where you could have tested everything from this car.

    It was the equivalent of 700k€, a big discount but then what to do with a car at that price tag that nobody wanted...

    I was not interested to absorb a very high loss then they started the communication about that vip program and they released the NS timing and things got mad. 

    And for the record, every single Porsche flagship was a loss for Porsche in regards to selling price against cost to produce  


    --

     

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

     

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    the-missile:

    I could have bought one as well from here at a very low price compared to Europe at that time. Plus invited to the PAG presentation at Yas during 2 days where you could have tested everything from this car.

    It was the equivalent of 700k€, a big discount but then what to do with a car at that price tag that nobody wanted...

    I was not interested to absorb a very high loss then they started the communication about that vip program and they released the NS timing and things got mad. 

    And for the record, every single Porsche flagship was a loss for Porsche in regards to selling price against cost to produce  


    --

     

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

     

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014

     

    Hmm nope!

    The 959 was a big money losing one. The Carrera GT was a salvage operation. The 918 however was giving a strict mandate that it can not be a money losing car. So every car turned a profit.

    When one talked about good value, some people think in terms of money, how much it will make or how much it will not lose.

    Others talked about how much it cost to produce vs how much the selling price is. At retail MSRP of course.

    The profit margin on each 918 is a lot less than what Porsche gets from their other cars. They really sunk a large sum of money into that program. I even have the dealer price list I know exactly how much a dealer makes one each 918. They are smaller than selling a regular C2. 

    And the 918 became extremely good value when compared to it's peers, the P1 and the LaFerrari. 918 has better perfjoamcne than either competitor at a lower cost to acquire. The P1 is especially bad, I have worked out the math before, McLaren makes more than 800k profit per P1, actually closer to 900k USD per car. That's called bad value. One is basically pay almost triple the price for what it cost to make. 

    918 wasn't selling well initially cause people got burnt, badly by the Carrera GT, and on paper the spec looks bad. It basically means people have no faith in Porsche. Do't blame them. Up until then, I don't believe any modern Porsche is selling above MSRP on the secondary market, unlike Ferraris. 

    But once the Ring time was released, jaws dropped, plenty of words and pages of texts had to be eaten. That's when the crazy rush begin. 


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    We are in line, Nick.  when I said every flagship was a loss for PAG, it was to be understood except that 918. This is why the price jumped like crazy compared to previous flagship and was selling bad. Nobody including me was ready to lose 50% of the car in few months ownership as the other flagship did.

    in my book, previous flagship were better money because you were buying a car that was way more expensive to produce and the hit on resale was potentially much less than double price tag 918. Future was not predictable at that time. 


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    Carrera GT wasn't a money losing program. Unless one counts the money sunk in for the 2 failed racing programs too.

    Carrera GT's failure was of the new airbag law in the USA when prompt Porsche to dump 2 years supply into the dealers which they have to do a fire sale to get rid of them.

    Because of the fire sale, it affects prices everywhere in the world. That was unfortunate.

    I made a calculated risk, I was planning to lose money on the 918, I don't mind doing that to have the most technologically advance car on the road. 4 years later it still is. It is that far ahead of time. 

    The rise in value is a moot point, paper gain, as I have no plans to sell it.

    The benefits of getting every new thing was also not a consideration, as when I placed my deposit the program wasn't in place.

    Basically I was a true believer of Porsche's engineering feat. I wasn't disappointed.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    You took a risk based on calculation and maths you were ready to absorb. It worked well and kudos for that. I am Porsche fan but was not ok to absorb the other end it could have turn out. 

    They were always in advance of their time on the flagship. Few people values engineering over message. 


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    I remember when I got the 918 offered, the dealer asked for 50k deposit, which he claimed was going directly to Porsche. He also mentioned that he makes only little money on this car and he'd be happy if he didn't have to sell one at all. Didn't make me feel very welcomed to be honest but I couldn't afford getting one anyway, so... Smiley
    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    I played around with the Porsche configurator today, specced a 992 Carrera S Cabriolet. Almost full options (could have gone crazy on some leather stuff, didn't do it but otherwise, the car is fully loaded)...ended up with a price tag of 191k EUR. This is insane. mail


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    Perhaps don't go full option then? yes


    --

    1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    Porker:

    Perhaps don't go full option then? yes

    Like I said, I didn't go full option (price would be over 200k)...but this is a cabriolet, not a GT car, you need some comfort in the car. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    It is shameful that Porsche even offers options for things that are standard in much cheaper cars. You cannot spec a decent Porsche without minimum $15k of options and it is not hard to reach $25k.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    SciFrog:

    It is shameful that Porsche even offers options for things that are standard in much cheaper cars. You cannot spec a decen Porsche without minimum $15k of options and it is not hard to reach $25k.

    My previous 991.2 Carrera GTS(!) Convertible was well optioned and the price tag was around 162k. I'd say that with the options (some not available for the "old" GTS) I specced for the 992 Carrera S Cabriolet, the GTS would have been around 175k. We're talking a higher tier model here, the GTS, not the regular Carrera S.

    So how much would the new 992 Carrera GTS Convertible be with the same options when it comes out? Over 205k? Ouch.

    I can already see the new 992 Turbo S specced close to 300k, this is really a lot. 

    I'm not saying Porsche is the only one charging a huge amount of money, look at the new Lamborghini Huracan Evo. A friend specced this thing to 270-290k EUR... My Performante has a MSRP of 273k and it is basically fully loaded (only missing the advanced HiFi system and/or an expensive Ad Personam color/option).

    This is why I am curious how much Ferrari is going to charge for the new F8 Tributo...


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    Hmm - I made also a configuration and took everything I really ould need. Ended up 168.028,45 €. This includes even a PTS color, all technical features like PDCC, Rear wheel steering, full leather, Logos on the seats, etc. I really don't see how you ended up at 196 for a decently specced 911. That car must be having lots of exclusive parts. 

    http://www.porsche-code.com/PL7QJF11

     

     

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    Add PCCB, LED Matrix and Lift and you're almost there.


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    RC:

    This is why I am curious how much Ferrari is going to charge for the new F8 Tributo...

    3% increase over the 488 GTB is the figure being quoted on F Chat. It will be interesting to see if that is true.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    Rossi:

    Add PCCB, LED Matrix and Lift and you're almost there.

    Even then you are still 15k away ... 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    CGX car nut:

    The car may look very different in the sheet metal than in flat 2-D photographs.  One will wait to pass judgment until having seen the cabriolet in person.  

    Ι really can't see much difference to the 991 cabriolet! I saw around 4-7 of these yesterday.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    Rossi:

    Add PCCB, LED Matrix and Lift and you're almost there.


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    Some videos I made in the south suburbs of Athens... I must say car looks amazing in real life!  947ef8d7561b4756ab08cc8b14585432.mov


    --

    Nikolas - 11 Mini Cooper S



    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    Thanks, always helps to see cars in their natural habitat. Looking at the pics, I hated the 3th breaklight but found it ok IRL...


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    One last one... IMG_5982.mov


    --

    Nikolas - 16 Mercedes Benz G63 AMG Edition 463

    18 Audi RS3


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    cool video especially - that G-Class sounds so great. Forget about that Carrera Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    1552417354971IMG_3645.jpg

    e50.jpg


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet

    Sportdesign kit is must, IMO


    --

    2016 Cayman GT4 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2016 Macan S Diesel - 2018 Mini JCW


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 2/28/20 9:54 AM
    GnilM
    393416 2397
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 1/17/20 6:23 PM
    DuckieRS
     
     
     
     
     
    259541 1219
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 1/31/20 10:41 AM
    schmoell
    215146 3106
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/28/20 9:45 AM
    RCA
    139965 1520
    Porsche Sticky New 992 Turbo 2/28/20 8:39 AM
    Porker
    27607 205
    Porsche Sticky Paint protection film 3/5/19 3:05 PM
    Kobalt
    23277 158
    Porsche Sticky Child seats in a 991 4/18/19 1:54 AM
    watt
    20608 37
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 2/15/20 9:28 PM
    CGX car nut
    20594 205
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet 3/13/19 6:43 AM
    Mikla
    18791 145
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayenne Coupe (2019) 10/25/19 5:57 PM
    KMM
    15116 113
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 7/12/19 4:30 PM
    SciFrog
    12272 176
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 2/28/20 8:51 AM
    BjoernB
    3513 55
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 8/10/19 12:20 AM
    watt
    503095 4257
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 10/31/19 5:49 PM
    schmoell
    471651 5243
    Porsche Cayman GT4 1/23/20 3:59 PM
    CGX car nut
    329152 3234
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 9/18/19 7:21 PM
    GaussM
    298704 2635
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 1/18/20 1:58 PM
    TB993tt
    272059 3305
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/24/20 1:13 PM
    RCA
    265793 3635
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 6/17/19 7:34 PM
    koko
    211155 1803
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 10/19/19 6:25 PM
    nberry
    192916 2654
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 12/20/19 10:28 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    186356 2509
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 2/26/20 7:37 PM
    Carlos from SpainM
    134232 3692
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 11/26/19 1:08 PM
    xander71
    130212 744
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 2/27/20 3:10 PM
    Grant
    79654 706
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 12/12/19 2:24 PM
    RCA
    71325 1071
    Lambo Aventador and SV 10/28/19 2:03 PM
    Topspeed
    51426 580
    AMG AMG GT R 10/25/19 8:34 PM
    Kobalt
    49400 654
    AMG Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 5/26/19 7:46 AM
    JimFlat6
    45923 399
    Porsche New Porsche System Tester - PIWIS 7/6/19 10:45 AM
    Divad
    45488 16
    Porsche 991 Speedster 1/3/20 7:28 AM
    WhoopsyM
    37823 652
    255 items found, displaying 1 to 30.