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    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    Lewis Hamilton's father also wrote off a Carrera GT. (in a village just down the road from me!)


    --

    991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    apias:
    ADias:

    What does it mean to be a professional driver? Was he a racing driver in a sanctioned racing series? Race drivers do not speed on public roads.

    I think they frequently do.

    • Lewis Hamilton was ticketed, and his license suspended, for doing 196 kmh in a 130 zone in France. (Not to mention his  Australian burn outs.)
    • Felipe Massa was ticketed for speeding and got 6 points on his license on the way to work (Italian Grand Prix) one morning.
    • Kyle Busch was ticketed, and had his license revoked, for doing 128 mph near a day-care center. (Practically every driver in NASCAR has been ticketed for speeding.)
     
    It's not surprising that people who like to drive fast so much that they do it for a living drive fast on and off the track.

     

    It is one thing to drive fast on the Autobahn/Highway and another one to drive fast in a rural area with a 45 mph speed limit. Rodas didn't loose control for no reason... Smiley

    Race drivers are humans too and of course they do not always respect speed limits. It depends however where and when and how. Doing 196 kph on an empty french highway isn't really any safety issue. Doing 80-90 mph in a 45 mph zone in a rural area actually is.

    Also, doing 128 mph near a day-care center (I assume this wasn't the highway or interstate) is just plain insane. He faced the right consequences.

    So what is a professional race car driver? It is someone with experience, with knowledge, some talent and someone who is capable of correctly assessing risks and at the same time taking in consideration possible driving mistakes from other drivers. It is someone who can adapt speed and driving style to circumstances, which Rodas apparently (unless there was a technical failure) didn't do.

    There is also another point I would like to mention: It is one thing to be fast ALONE in the car and another one to have a passenger with you. As a driver, you are responsible for this passenger. My son sometimes tells me "hey, why don't you go after him?" and I always tell him: "Because I don't want to kill us." He is convinced I am the best driver in the world (sons... Smiley) and sometimes it is really difficult for me to explain to him why that guy in his BMW outran us (doing 200 kph in a 100 kph zone, just to make a point...) or why that Mercedes driver overtook us in a curve, with three cars in front of me and a wet surface at only 1°C. A good driver assesses the situation and adapts. Many drivers are not capable of doing that, they always have a knife between the teeth. Bad things happen then...sooner or later. No matter how good of a driver you think you are.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    FWIW,

    http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/11/paul-walker-wreck-death-road-bumps-botts-dots-hydroplane/

    Also, here is a description of what happens to a human body in a high speed impact. Got this off another car site. it makes you think twice about speed.

     

    your second question is one of the few in this thread to which I can provide an well-informed answer to. several specific types of injury which can occur in a high speed deceleration, as was the case in this instance:

    -with regards to the nervous system, often seen in high speed MVC is diffuse axonal injury in which aside from any discrete neurological injury (i.e. fractures, hematomas) the entire neural network in the brain displays changes in the connections and connectivity within neurons. if you imagine your brain as a network of christmas lights, this is akin to cutting the light cord at numerous locations and turning the lights out. this is manifest as a coma beginning at the point of impact, and may persist indefinitely in severe cases. in more mild impacts, patients can have transient loss of consciousness which is your common concussion and a separate process from DAI. 

    -another commonly seen nervous system injury in high speed MVC are spine fractures, most concerning at the junction between the skull and the spine or between the C1/2 vertebrae. this area is particularly susceptible to injury during high speed deceleration because the head is really quite heavy and can be thought of as a bowling ball on top of a slinky (although the spine and its ligaments are more resilient than a slinky). all that weight being flung forward in a rapid deceleration can shear the ligaments which hold your head to your spine and result in what is sometimes (dramatically) termed an "internal decapitation". if the brainstem/spine is severely damaged as a result of an unstable spine fracture at a high level (skull C1, C1/C2), you can die immediately from injury to your brainstem which contains the centers which control your breathing, moderate heartrate, and ultimately control wakefulness. 

    -outside of the nervous system, a tear in any large vascular structure as a result of rapid decelaration can result in internal bleeding which could kill you within minutes. this is most common where the aorta is tethered by a ligament in the chest. when you stop rapidly the aorta may fling forward until it's abruptly stopped by this ligamentous attachment, which can then rip off the wall of the aorta, tearing a hole in it. death comes quickly as the heart pumps its output into the thoracic cavity rather than your vital organs. 

    in short, there are a number of ways in which a rapid deceleration can seriously hurt or kill you. with the advent of modern seatblets, most of the body is well restrained leading to far fewer blunt force thoracic injuries. however, the head remains unrestrained on top of the neck and neurological injuries are still very common and often the most serious injury in restrained drivers in very high speed motor vehicle collisions. this has been addressed in the various racing series via regulations mandating HANS restraints, notably after the death of dale earnhardt from a basilar skull/spine fracture. 

    given that both drivers were unconscious, it is fair to say that they suffered some degree of neurological injury in the accident. this is a very sad story and a reminder that high speeds in the absence of a helmet and a head and neck restraint system is exceedingly dangerous, regardless of the car or other safety equipment.
     

     


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    Funny, a lawyer trying to teach me about anatomy. Smiley

    Also, I worked half a year on an emergency doctor ambulance and saw injuries which would put some horror movies to shame. One reason I do not ride a motorcycle anymore. In a car, you always have a chance...

    Let me remind you again that speed doesn't kill. Humans do. Like I said in a previous thread, most deadly accidents in Germany happen outside the Autobahn. The Autobahn (without a general speed limit!) is the safest road in Germany.

    You have just been indoctrinated by circumstances, your social and professional environment and other factors. I understand and respect your opinion but I don't agree.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    nberry:

    FWIW,

    http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/11/paul-walker-wreck-death-road-bumps-botts-dots-hydroplane/

    Also, here is a description of what happens to a human body in a high speed impact. Got this off another car site. it makes you think twice about speed.

     

    your second question is one of the few in this thread to which I can provide an well-informed answer to. several specific types of injury which can occur in a high speed deceleration, as was the case in this instance:

    -with regards to the nervous system, often seen in high speed MVC is diffuse axonal injury in which aside from any discrete neurological injury (i.e. fractures, hematomas) the entire neural network in the brain displays changes in the connections and connectivity within neurons. if you imagine your brain as a network of christmas lights, this is akin to cutting the light cord at numerous locations and turning the lights out. this is manifest as a coma beginning at the point of impact, and may persist indefinitely in severe cases. in more mild impacts, patients can have transient loss of consciousness which is your common concussion and a separate process from DAI. 

    -another commonly seen nervous system injury in high speed MVC are spine fractures, most concerning at the junction between the skull and the spine or between the C1/2 vertebrae. this area is particularly susceptible to injury during high speed deceleration because the head is really quite heavy and can be thought of as a bowling ball on top of a slinky (although the spine and its ligaments are more resilient than a slinky). all that weight being flung forward in a rapid deceleration can shear the ligaments which hold your head to your spine and result in what is sometimes (dramatically) termed an "internal decapitation". if the brainstem/spine is severely damaged as a result of an unstable spine fracture at a high level (skull C1, C1/C2), you can die immediately from injury to your brainstem which contains the centers which control your breathing, moderate heartrate, and ultimately control wakefulness. 

    -outside of the nervous system, a tear in any large vascular structure as a result of rapid decelaration can result in internal bleeding which could kill you within minutes. this is most common where the aorta is tethered by a ligament in the chest. when you stop rapidly the aorta may fling forward until it's abruptly stopped by this ligamentous attachment, which can then rip off the wall of the aorta, tearing a hole in it. death comes quickly as the heart pumps its output into the thoracic cavity rather than your vital organs. 

    in short, there are a number of ways in which a rapid deceleration can seriously hurt or kill you. with the advent of modern seatblets, most of the body is well restrained leading to far fewer blunt force thoracic injuries. however, the head remains unrestrained on top of the neck and neurological injuries are still very common and often the most serious injury in restrained drivers in very high speed motor vehicle collisions. this has been addressed in the various racing series via regulations mandating HANS restraints, notably after the death of dale earnhardt from a basilar skull/spine fracture. 

    given that both drivers were unconscious, it is fair to say that they suffered some degree of neurological injury in the accident. this is a very sad story and a reminder that high speeds in the absence of a helmet and a head and neck restraint system is exceedingly dangerous, regardless of the car or other safety equipment.
     

     

    I am not sure how many members recall my thread several years ago about my brother Greg. He was nearly killed in a drunk driving accident (he wasn't the driver). Greg suffered the Diffuse Axonal Injury described above and was comatose for about two weeks. I made the unfortunate mistake of looking up his prognosis on Google, what I read said Greg had a 5% chance of regaining consciousness. We have been extremely fortunate and he has made a substantial recovery. It is always chilling to me to read about these types of injuries, I am reminded of how Greg looked those first days in the hospital and how painful it was to think he would never wake up. 

    Sorry for the heavy subject matter but I felt it was appropriate for this thread. We can debate the risks of driving fast, but one thing is undeniable, drinking and driving kills. Thank you again to all the members who posted their support on my original thread, thought you might be interested to hear Greg has made a good recovery. Best holiday wishes to all. Smiley


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    trip : I remember well your thread . Glad all is now well  . 

    Drinking and driving does kill : I was involved in such an accident when I was 25 ( I was not at fault ) and it ended up with 2 people killed .  I am amazed often when I talk with well educated friends, how unserious they are about their own drinking and driving .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    apias:
    • Lewis Hamilton was ticketed, and his license suspended, for doing 196 kmh in a 130 zone in France. (Not to mention his  Australian burn outs.)
     

    Strange - I didn't think there was a reciprocal agreement (yet) where a UK driving licence can be endorsed or revoked by speeding outside of the UK. Smiley


    --

     

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    Trip,
    Like Gnil I do remember your thread well. Glad to hear Greg has recovered so well. The ability of humans to "bounce back" after such a heavy blow is amazing. All the best mate!
    -Joost-


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    @ Trip,
    I also remember you telling us about your brother's accident and his situation as a result of it and have often wondered how he has progressed, so it's good to hear that he has made a good recovery.


    --

    fritz


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    Same here... remember well all your threads! Yes - so glad that everything is back on track. As much as we love those cars - its terrible what kind of impact the accidents caused by can have.


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    Lars997:

    Same here... remember well all your threads! Yes - so glad that everything is back on track. As much as we love those cars - its terrible what kind of impact the accidents caused by can have.

    Smiley So true. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    dreamcar:
    apias:
    • Lewis Hamilton was ticketed, and his license suspended, for doing 196 kmh in a 130 zone in France. (Not to mention his  Australian burn outs.)
     

    Strange - I didn't think there was a reciprocal agreement (yet) where a UK driving licence can be endorsed or revoked by speeding outside of the UK. Smiley

    A poorly constructed and worded sentence. The "suspension" was just in France, and perhaps "right to drive" would have been more correct than "license".


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    Lars997:

    Same here... remember well all your threads! Yes - so glad that everything is back on track. As much as we love those cars - its terrible what kind of impact the accidents caused by can have.

    +1. I remember that thread and I´m very happy to hear that your brother has recovered so well. 


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    fritz:

    @ Trip,
    I also remember you telling us about your brother's accident and his situation as a result of it and have often wondered how he has progressed, so it's good to hear that he has made a good recovery.

    +1 Smiley


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    Trip, that is terrific news. 


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    apias:
    dreamcar:
    apias:
    • Lewis Hamilton was ticketed, and his license suspended, for doing 196 kmh in a 130 zone in France. (Not to mention his  Australian burn outs.)
     

    Strange - I didn't think there was a reciprocal agreement (yet) where a UK driving licence can be endorsed or revoked by speeding outside of the UK. Smiley

    A poorly constructed and worded sentence. The "suspension" was just in France, and perhaps "right to drive" would have been more correct than "license".

    Ah, thanks for the clarification. Smiley I know the EU are trying to make driving offences enforceable across national boundaries, but as far as I am aware they have not succeeded - yet.


    --

     

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    Official:

    The CGT Paul Walker was in had no mechanical issue.

    Porsche engineers are coming to the US next month to get info like the travelling speed from the onboard data collectors of the CGT. 

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2013/12/18/official-no-mechanical-issues-in-walker-car-crash/4116755/


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    xybyx:

    Official:

    The CGT Paul Walker was in had no mechanical issue.

    Porsche engineers are coming to the US next month to get info like the travelling speed from the onboard data collectors of the CGT. 

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2013/12/18/official-no-mechanical-issues-in-walker-car-crash/4116755/

    So I just hope that all that anti-CGT media crap stops now. Still wondering about the tires and speed before the crash but I get the feeling that the traveling  speed they will "find" will be higher than anyone expected. Smiley

    Of course Porsche sent a team to investigate, they got so much media pressure from this accident, you cannot even imagine.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    RC:

    Still wondering about the tires and speed before the crash but I get the feeling that the traveling  speed they will "find" will be higher than anyone expected. Smiley

    It does not take a scientist to estimate that the speed was very high . Just looking at what is left from the car you can deduct that the speed was very high . It needs a very strong impact to destroy a car to that level . Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    This is not surprising. Many people wanted to blame the car, I guess because it is hard sometimes to accept human error. The primary error was not losing control of the car, but driving it so fast on public streets as to create the dangerous situation in the first place. There is more than enough risk on a track, on a public road it is many times worse. Sad for all involved.


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    Gnil:

    It does not take a scientist to estimate that the speed was very high. Just looking at what is left from the car you can deduce that the speed was very high. It needs a very strong impact to destroy a car to that level Smiley

    Exactly Smiley

    I also hate the media coverage that blames the car for being dangerous. This accident is obviously tragic but excessive speed must have been a contributing factor.

    So what if the driver was a professional racing driver? If anything, it should have meant he would be even more careful on the public roads keeping his high speed driving for the track. More skill does not necessarily mean a person's attitude is right. I hope he was not driving too quickly to impress Paul Walker. Even the best can be caught out when showboating.


    --


    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    easy_rider911:
     

    So what if the driver was a professional racing driver? If anything, it should have meant he would be even more careful on the public roads keeping his high speed driving for the track. More skill does not necessarily mean a person's attitude is right. I hope he was not driving too quickly to impress Paul Walker. Even the best can be caught out when showboating.

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    I still believe that the conditions of the road have something to do with this.  We had rain the previous day, probably the first rain we had in a long time.  I would not doubt that the roads were still a little damp, with a little bit of debris, making the roads a little slippery.  Depending on the tread of the tire, and the speed involved, that could have been the factor.  Also, since this area was not heavily traveled (it was an industrial park, on a weekend), the tiny debris left from the rain would not have been "cleared" by the sheer volume of passing vehicles.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    SoCal Alan:

    I still believe that the conditions of the road have something to do with this.  We had rain the previous day, probably the first rain we had in a long time.  I would not doubt that the roads were still a little damp, with a little bit of debris, making the roads a little slippery.  Depending on the tread of the tire, and the speed involved, that could have been the factor.  Also, since this area was not heavily traveled (it was an industrial park, on a weekend), the tiny debris left from the rain would not have been "cleared" by the sheer volume of passing vehicles.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk

    I am sorry but I do not agree. If the car is in a good shape, it is always the driver who makes a decision. Rodas apparently made the wrong one. Pro drivers know much better than others how important it is to adapt to road, traffic and weather conditions. No excuses here I'm afraid. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    RC:
    SoCal Alan:

    I still believe that the conditions of the road have something to do with this.  We had rain the previous day, probably the first rain we had in a long time.  I would not doubt that the roads were still a little damp, with a little bit of debris, making the roads a little slippery.  Depending on the tread of the tire, and the speed involved, that could have been the factor.  Also, since this area was not heavily traveled (it was an industrial park, on a weekend), the tiny debris left from the rain would not have been "cleared" by the sheer volume of passing vehicles.


     

    I am sorry but I do not agree. If the car is in a good shape, it is always the driver who makes a decision. Rodas apparently made the wrong one. Pro drivers know much better than others how important it is to adapt to road, traffic and weather conditions. No excuses here I'm afraid. 


    Yeah, I meant to say that he probably didn't adapt when he should have.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    SoCal Alan:
    RC:
    SoCal Alan:

    I still believe that the conditions of the road have something to do with this.  We had rain the previous day, probably the first rain we had in a long time.  I would not doubt that the roads were still a little damp, with a little bit of debris, making the roads a little slippery.  Depending on the tread of the tire, and the speed involved, that could have been the factor.  Also, since this area was not heavily traveled (it was an industrial park, on a weekend), the tiny debris left from the rain would not have been "cleared" by the sheer volume of passing vehicles.


     

    I am sorry but I do not agree. If the car is in a good shape, it is always the driver who makes a decision. Rodas apparently made the wrong one. Pro drivers know much better than others how important it is to adapt to road, traffic and weather conditions. No excuses here I'm afraid. 


    Yeah, I meant to say that he probably didn't adapt when he should have.

    I have to admit that when I was younger, I was easily provoked by other drivers or I just took a chance (at that time, I considered it a "challenge"). Not sure if Rodas thought the same but it is a possibility. I feel so sorry for the kids they left behind, why should I lie, I cried when I heard that Rodas' boy tried to help his dad to get out of the car and that Walker's daughter is devastated. I have a boy and a girl and I don't even want to think about it... This is why I always think of them when I want to take a chance...and I don't. Let others be faster, I don't care (not that it happens often Smiley).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    The Los Angeles Coroner's office has issued a report on the Walker incident - speed, in excess of 100 mph (160 kph), and the resultant loss of vehicle control were ruled the contributory causes of death of passenger and driver.  The CGT, according to the Coroner's office, impacted a tree and a light pole before spinning into another tree.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-paul-walker-autopsy-20140103,0,795722.story#axzz2pMtrQskw


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    From CNN

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/03/showbiz/paul-walker-report/


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    In excess of 160km/h?! In a downtown area?! Well done.


    --

    2014 981 Boxster S | Riviera Blue | PDK | Sport Suspension (-20mm) | PCCB | PTV | PSE
    2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

    Previous
    2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
    2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
    2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
    2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)


    Re: RIP Paul Walker aka Brian O'Connor

    bluelines:

    In excess of 160km/h?! In a downtown area?! Well done.

    makes me angry too ! How stupid Smiley  and now these 2 lives destroyed and so many families members in pain Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


     
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